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I get cutting Archfiend because it's too slow for a deck discarding one card a turn (outside of wheels etc), but corpse auger seems like decent burst card draw. Too unreliable to trigger the effect?
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Jul 27, 2020 17:19
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There are a lot of cards that don't do anything for your strategy like Vedalken Orrery, Phyrexian Arena, Myr Retriever, Bone Miser, Puppeteer Clique, Solemn Simulacrum. The Liliana is also not great, "target player discards a card" is not a good use of 5 mana, and neither is Vampiric Tutor.
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Jul 27, 2020 17:34
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Tarnop posted:I get cutting Archfiend because it's too slow for a deck discarding one card a turn (outside of wheels etc), but corpse auger seems like decent burst card draw. Too unreliable to trigger the effect? Yeah it’s way too easy for me to imagine a scenario where you hold it up for a turn or two to maximize it, and then the player before your turn Bojuka Bogs or Tormod’s Crypts the big fat graveyard and your Augur is just worthless. Compare that card to Disciple of Bolas, for example. Not sure if this is due to budgetary restrictions or whatever but your big pay off creatures really aren’t that scary or impressive besides Sheoldred. None of those creatures are going to come out a turn or two early and really shake the game up. There are really powerful demons that have important ETB triggers or Staxxx effects that I would consider or maybe big powerful dragons like the new Terror of the Peaks or Terror of Mt Velus. I personally just cut Gary from my RB reanimator list because my devotion to black never got high enough for him to be better than KoKo Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Jul 27, 2020 |
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Jul 27, 2020 17:36
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Infinite Karma posted:There are a lot of cards that don't do anything for your strategy like Vedalken Orrery, Phyrexian Arena, Myr Retriever, Bone Miser, Puppeteer Clique, Solemn Simulacrum. The Liliana is also not great, "target player discards a card" is not a good use of 5 mana, and neither is Vampiric Tutor. The orrery is there to allow me to trigger Chainer on other people's turns and get multiple reanimation effects per round, but yeah, in practice that's a pretty slow and mana hungry process. I use Necropotence instead of Arena in black decks for sustained card draw normally, but the discard effect clashes with Chainer. I've got a lot of card advantage already so I'll lose that. Bust Rodd posted:Not sure if this is due to budgetary restrictions or whatever but your big pay off creatures really aren’t that scary or impressive besides Sheoldred. None of those creatures are going to come out a turn or two early and really shake the game up. There are really powerful demons that have important ETB triggers or Staxxx effects that I would consider or maybe big powerful dragons like the new Terror of the Peaks or Terror of Mt Velus. Partly budget, partly because I have a Kaalia deck so I was looking for non-demon, non-dragon cards if possible. I have a Sire of Insanity I'm not using that would go nicely in this deck and isn't great for Kaalia. For the other demons are you thinking the two Ob Nixilis and Razaketh?
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Jul 27, 2020 18:16
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Also, a few of the Madness cards might be smart additions? Big Game Hunter, Call to the Netherworld, Dark Withering, Fiery Temper, Grave Scrabbler, Psychotic Haze, Violent Eruption, Voldaren Pariah look okay with a quick Gatherer search. Mainly to give some extra fuel since you're discarding a lot of stuff to Chainer.
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Jul 27, 2020 18:17
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Cool, yep, I have all the red black Madness cards since I built the pre-con as an Anje deck until I got bored of it
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Jul 27, 2020 18:27
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Tarnop posted:I find cutting cards to be the hardest part of building or updating a deck. Cutting high CMC cards (that don't win the game pretty much on the spot) is my usual rule of thumb and even then it's difficult. I'm trying to trim a reanimator deck down to 100 cards and it's hurting my brain because I want high CMC creatures for it to be worth the effort to dig them back out of the graveyard. I'd really appreciate some help with it Your deck is weird and unfocused battlecruiser stuffs. So, like, as near as I can tell, your plan is to slowboat a bunch of pricy 6/6s out over several turns and then hope to not get board wiped and smack people with a couple while leaving the rest on defense. Or maybe hardcasting a 9-drop spell with your commander out on turn 20. Idk which, but neither is super good as a wincon, especially in the face of actual boardwipes or graveyard hate. Like, your commander is whatever, and the inclusion of orrery kinda show that you fundamentally misunderstand how he works: Orrery only matters for decks that have enough mana to do things on every turn, like say something with Seedborn Muse or Wilderness Reclamation. You don't. Not even a little. You aren't even running something like Treasonous Ogre that could generate bursts of off-turn mana (which you probably should which I'll explain later). You're also running doofy stuff like Squee, which... could just be another dude you actually want in the yard, since you are only really doing it once per turn cycle. And speaking of mana, stuff that requires recurring mana costs from you like Arguel's or Geth suck rear end because, again, you ain't got poo poo for mana. The prime value in your commander is less recurring 1 dude per round at full price, but acting as a global haste source for stuff you reanimate that isn't stuck in mono-red. And even then, he's more mana and more fragile than stuff you could run from your deck to do the same thing. He's painfully not good, so I'd not lean on him to carry you. That said, your big bahonkdonkas that you reanimate with cheap spells should be dudes who Get There. Not Archfiends, or Hellkite Tyrants, or Gontis, but real jahoobalas like It that Betrays or Razaketh or Molten Primordial or Void Winnower. Also get a Sandstone Oracle. Trust me. I'm a real doctor. Also, less important but I'm thinking of it: Drop High Market for Phyrexian Tower immediately. And Altar of Dementia goes out for Phyrexian Altar. YOU ARE MANA STARVED AND SHOULD ALWAYS BE USING THE "MAKES MANA" OPTION OVER THE "DOES NOT MAKES MANA" OPTION. I'm late for a conference call, so I don't have time for all the substitutions but here's basically a cut list:  PS: Also, if you want something to cast off-turn just jam a Dualcaster Mage in there somewhere. You can even cast it repeatedly off Treasonous Ogre with a sac outlet.
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Jul 27, 2020 18:31
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Good news, I own 3 out of 5 of those big jahoobalas already, and the other two (+ Phyrexian Altar) are on my list of fun things to buy. e: I'm also not opposed to changing the commander if there's a better option Tarnop fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Jul 27, 2020 |
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Jul 27, 2020 18:51
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I think Chainer is a perfectly fine Rakdos Reanimator commander because giving all your reanimated dudes haste is extremely cool and good. Master of Cruelties is excellent. Archfiend of Despair is another excellent reanimation target.
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Jul 27, 2020 19:12
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Yeah making a hasty Master of Cruelties is basically the One Weird Trick to making your friends hate you. It's very cool and good
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Jul 27, 2020 19:44
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A lot of deck advice in this thread and in the Discord lately can boil down to "How do you plan to win?" You need a definitive gameplan and way to achieve a win, not just "I dunno play some creatures and staples from 2015 EDH deck building websites." Make sure every card in your deck either (a) helps you progress your plan to win or (b) interferes with your opponents' plans to win. If you want to reanimate, you're going to have to jump through hoops to do so. You have to discard or tutor into your graveyard, then use a reanimation spell/ability. You want all that effort to actually give you something worthwhile. Don't animate a dumb mid-sized beater--animate something with immediate board presence (Razaketh to tutor for game ending combos, Sire of Insanity for immediate disruption of opponents, Nullstone Gargoyle, etc).
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Jul 27, 2020 22:13
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Tarnop posted:e: I'm also not opposed to changing the commander if there's a better option I think a more fun way of playing the R/B reanimator game is to play Grenzo, play other haste effects like Anger, new Purphoros, maybe Urabrask, to replace that part of Chainer's text, and then add some repeatable "put things on the bottom of my library" effects for when you don't have a better reanimate effect.
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Jul 27, 2020 22:27
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Aranan posted:A lot of deck advice in this thread and in the Discord lately can boil down to "How do you plan to win?" You need a definitive gameplan and way to achieve a win, not just "I dunno play some creatures and staples from 2015 EDH deck building websites." Make sure every card in your deck either (a) helps you progress your plan to win or (b) interferes with your opponents' plans to win. Chainer doesn't do any of those things, for example, but Alesha, Who Smiles at Death can reanimate Master of Cruelties for 2 mana and also attack alongside him and instantly kill someone. Alesha can also mess with Conspicuous Snoop and/or Goblin Recruiter, or Kiki-Jiki, who can also win the game for you, whether you cast them or reanimate them. If you built a reanimator deck based on low-power creatures, you could helm it with Alesha (and include Lurrus, too) and then focus on value/control and ramp, and dumping stuff into your graveyard (which a lot of stuff can do), and your commander is a cheap and effective reanimator. And then you'll have the minimum amount of dead cards that you can't easily use to win.
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Jul 27, 2020 22:35
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Comedy option: Worldgorger Dragon.
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Jul 27, 2020 22:43
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sit on my Facebook posted:Yeah making a hasty Master of Cruelties is basically the One Weird Trick to making your friends hate you. It's very cool and good IMO if you run Master of Cruelties you want to run things like Whispersilk Cloak and Subira, Tulzidi Caravanner. Yeah he isn't your main play but both of those support cards are p good and turn MoC into a monster. Source: An Alesha deck that does nasty poo poo that I tend to play against. Zedd fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Jul 27, 2020 |
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Jul 27, 2020 22:50
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Made some updates. I would be unhappy to see any of these creatures enter play under my opponents' control, especially with haste. I'm a little concerned about lack of card draw but I'll see how it plays out in testing. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/VBdmoLLRQ0y0Do9vw9lUDw If it turns out the deck is still not good I've at least learned about some great new demons and dragons to drop into my Kaalia deck Tarnop fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Jul 28, 2020 |
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Jul 28, 2020 00:37
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Probably a dumb question, but I am still fairly new to magic. How does Archfiend's Vessel work with something like Endless Whispers? Does the opponent get the 5/5 demon?
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Jul 28, 2020 10:56
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Big Centipede posted:Probably a dumb question, but I am still fairly new to magic. How does Archfiend's Vessel work with something like Endless Whispers? Does the opponent get the 5/5 demon? “When Archfiend’s Vessel enters the battlefield, if it entered from your graveyard or you cast it from your graveyard, exile it.” Vessel will not have entered from their graveyard, it will have entered from yours, so I think they just get the 1/1. In general, reading the card out loud to the table solves 90% of rules questions. A Magic card cannot ever lie.
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Jul 28, 2020 13:15
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Trip reports from the Rashmi and Chainer decks you folks have helped me with recently: Rashmi is more fun than my original version but scares the crap out of my playgroup. I eventually ran out of counterspells to deal with every piece of removal being directed at seedborn muse and wilderness reclamation. I managed the dream of 6 tidespout tyrants and a cyclonic rift, but then someone else threw a board wipe and my deck was out of ways to win at that point. Fun deck, powerful, can't deal with being the archenemy. Might need some more recursion to get the game-winning pieces back, I lost count of how many bounce spells I used on my own eternal witness before she eventually got exiled. Chainer was a miserable experience. Density of reanimator spells is so low that all it took was a despark on the first thing I reanimated and the deck fell to pieces. I spent most of the game with 1 or 2 cards in hand because every big creature takes 3 cards to get into play. Bad times. I built it from the pre-con which means I have a Krikk sitting in my folder doing nothing. If I'm going to be cheating big stuff into play for cheap then I might as well have the means to do it in the command zone, and losing the red third of the deck isn't the worst thing, so I'm thinking of retooling it with him as the commander.
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Jul 30, 2020 02:07
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Tarnop posted:Chainer was a miserable experience. Density of reanimator spells is so low that all it took was a despark on the first thing I reanimated and the deck fell to pieces. I'm very confused why your chainer deck needs spells to reanimate creatures with EDIT: vvv that casts creatures from the graveyard? or are you solely playing overcosted creatures to reanimate? if it was me I would make sure there was enough little value guys like Phyrexian Rager and Pit Keeper to keep things moving when I can't afford to flop out something really big if you wanna go deep on reanimation as a strategy (i.e. cheap spell brings back big creature) then yeah, Rakdos Chainer's probably not your dude. Rakdos Chainer does value. LordSaturn fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Jul 30, 2020 |
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Jul 30, 2020 04:16
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It's the Rakdos version
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Jul 30, 2020 04:39
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I got to play commander tonight with Mana Curves and Jeremy Noell. Definitely a highlight of making content so far! Chase will upload the vod to YouTube, but I got to play against Jeremy’s infamous Villainous Wealth deck. What a good time!
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Jul 30, 2020 05:23
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K’rrik is an awesome deck, but be warned: it’s very difficult to build a bad K’rrik deck. He is SOOOOO strong and gets out of control soooo quickly and you can easily, easily go off as early as T1 with a god draw. I typically find Rakdos reanimator to simply be the bad version of Jund or Abzan reanimator, because ultimately for Commander you need green to ensure you don’t always have to cheat your fatties into play. Like this is my personal K’rrik list for high power tables and it’s maybe 15-20 cards from the cEDH Doomsday primer, but I don’t want a Doomsday deck... yet... https://www.moxfield.com/decks/q6p9XllsW0a3PvvhGUFHCQ
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Jul 30, 2020 13:09
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Bust Rodd posted:Like this is my personal K’rrik list for high power tables and it’s maybe 15-20 cards from the cEDH Doomsday primer, but I don’t want a Doomsday deck... yet... I'm getting a stiffy imagining Aetherflux Reservoir and Bolas's Citadel at the same time  One thing... you have a fuckload of cards that double swamps (Nirkana Revenant, Cabal Coffers) so why so many non-swamp lands? Gynovore fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Jul 30, 2020 |
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Jul 30, 2020 17:31
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Gynovore posted:One thing... you have a fuckload of cards that double swamps (Nirkana Revenant, Cabal Coffers) so why so many non-swamp lands? I assume their plan is to tutor up Urborg with an Expedition Map. (It's not a particularly good plan.)
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Jul 30, 2020 17:37
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Urborg is one of the strongest cards in the deck. I have burned a Demonic Tutor going to fetch my Urborg, forget about expedition map. It’s a land that can effectively triple my mana production depending on my hand.
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Jul 30, 2020 17:40
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cabal coffers, bojuka bog, even ancient tomb I understand. but cabal pit? spawning pool? several of these lands do not make sense in this deck
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Jul 31, 2020 06:12
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Cabal Pit is uncounterable removal and Spawning Pool is in because WHOOPS! I used to be on Doomsday//Victimize and that was a holdover from in case I needed to recover from a board wipe, I will definitely cut it. Played and won a very high power game today, the 3 Thrasios players kept clogging each other’s engines with counters and stuff and then someone cast Echo of Aeons after I was fully set up with mana doublers and I went IN with Villis, Broker of Blood and Blood Celebrant.
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Jul 31, 2020 06:17
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Bust Rodd posted:Cabal Pit is uncounterable removal What makes you say this?
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Jul 31, 2020 10:32
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Because you cannot counter lands.
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Jul 31, 2020 11:35
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It's Friday, which means it's time for another episode of Let's Do a Brew! This week I'm joined by TCGPlayer Writer, Streamer, and all around great person Chase Carrol aka ManaCurves! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyPfB7_a3E8 Chase and I talk about deck building for EDH in front of an audience, which she does live on stream every week. We also talk about the stigma of "netdecking" when it comes to Commander, as well as streaming magic and playing via webcam. We also build a sweet Rhys the Redeemed go-wide token deck. Check it out!
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Jul 31, 2020 18:48
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https://twitter.com/thekristenemily/status/1289365926911991810?s=21 This person gets paid to write about Commander and that just bugs the absolute hell out of me. The idea that nobody is playing “chill” (read ‘bad’) decks anymore is not due to any player in particular’s fault, it’s a response to tons of new players coming in to Commander at a time when cards have never been better. Believe it or not, the average commander player is playing with the cards they own, and for most people playing, that means cards from 2015+. Newer players aren’t always gonna Scryfall through 40,000 cards they’ve never heard of to find gems until they’ve been playing for a while and have become invested in the deck or the format. I see this sentiment in a lot of Content Creators and it just feels so weird for the literally the most enfranchised players, content creators who get paid to play magic, direct their ire at the people playing and not the company making the cards too strong, especially when you literally have to go out of your way to find weaker cards half the time.
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Aug 1, 2020 03:03
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I really wish the content creators were good at the game and helped people genuinely improve their deckbuilding and play. It seems like they're not interested in the game and just plugging new sets. Whining about chill decks and power level is ten times more toxic than pubstomping and a terrible example for the community.
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Aug 1, 2020 07:20
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it does kind of sound like you guys are mad that the youtubers don't wanna play cEDH
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Aug 1, 2020 07:32
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Bust Rodd posted:https://twitter.com/thekristenemily/status/1289365926911991810?s=21 Never fear, the cavalry is on the way https://twitter.com/SheldonMenery/status/1289372605833609218 LordSaturn posted:it does kind of sound like you guys are mad that the youtubers don't wanna play cEDH There's a lot of deck building space between "5-6" and cEDH Tarnop fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Aug 1, 2020 |
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Aug 1, 2020 07:45
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I just picked up the Timeless Wisdom deck (the jeskai cycling one), and will play my first ever commander game in a few hours. Any tips for playing that deck? Or commander in general?
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Aug 1, 2020 11:31
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LordSaturn posted:it does kind of sound like you guys are mad that the youtubers don't wanna play cEDH This is an exhausting misinterpretation. cEDH is pretty big on YouTube, it's more just being exhausted over people fussing about power level when it's only natural for people to (generally) want to power up their decks with cool new cards. cEDH is just the logical conclusion of that-- my favorite part of it is that there is no discussion of power level needed. No one discusses things like power levels in standard and modern, even though there is a pretty wide diversity between budget and top of the meta there. I get that commander was designed as a beer n' pretzels casual format, but in my experience Magic players generally like to keep powering up and getting better cards and playing new, more powerful strategies-- that's just the nature of a power creeped game. People don't always want to play lower power or jank commander decks. It's fine if you do, there's nothing wrong with that, but you will have to deal with the annoying power level gobbledygook like that tweet was fussing about, complaining that it's harder to get more casual games. And like Bust said, it's become pretty hard to actively build weaker decks simply because cards are becoming better with time (cards meant to be weak replacements of reserve list powerhouses notwithstanding). Like, a lot of the best cards and commanders in the format right now came out over the past 4 years-- stuff like partners, dockside extortionist, smothering tithe, fierce guardianship, deflecting swat, etc-- and they weren't even chase cards, they came in precons. In my experience, it seems a lot of people in my area started out casual, then one person boosted their deck to beat the meta, then other people adapted, and then it's just a cycle from there. There are still people who like playing their lower power level decks and that's fine! But don't be surprised when other people look toward greener pastures as newer, more flashy cards come out.
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Aug 1, 2020 12:00
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uncle blog posted:I just picked up the Timeless Wisdom deck (the jeskai cycling one), and will play my first ever commander game in a few hours. Any tips for playing that deck? Or commander in general? Take Gavi out as the commander, use Brallin and Shabraz (the partner commanders) instead. Deck is pretty solid and synergizes more with them, they're stellar commanders. As for commander in general: 1. COMMUNICATE. Always be clear about what you're doing and don't be afraid to ask others to explain what they're doing. Board states in commander can get pretty hairy and it's easy to accidentally cast spells you don't have mana for, or make misplays because you didn't see a card on the table that the player diagonal from you has. 2. DON'T ALWAYS ASSUME EVERYONE ELSE CAN ANSWER THREATS, BUT DON'T RUSH TO ANSWER THEM YOURSELF. If someone plays something scary and you have an answer for it, but you're the third player to the left, don't rush to counter or kill it. Let priority pass around the table first (how it's supposed to be anyway) and see if your opponents can stop it. I guess this can be summed up with "don't waste your resources, let your opponents waste theirs first". Table politics are a thing and you can't handle everything alone. 3. DON'T OVEREXTEND. Just because you can go in for the kill doesn't always mean you should go for it. You'll get blown out a lot if you're going for the kill when opponents have open mana to potentially stop you. Just because you have mana for a big flashy spell doesn't mean you should always tap out for it when the timing isn't right. Likewise, watch out for opponents who are making greedy, reckless plays and punish them for it. Framboise fucked around with this message at 12:16 on Aug 1, 2020 |
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Aug 1, 2020 12:02
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Alot of content creators play unfocused battlecruiser decks in their content, with the content itself being effectively a podcast where people happen to be playing edh in the background. People copy these decks without understanding the desgin choices that went into them, only to get dunked on by pretty much anything that has an even slightly focused strategy or wincon. On a separate note it's also harder to gauge the powerlevel of a new deck given you can't easily playtest anything right now.
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Aug 1, 2020 12:11
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LordSaturn posted:it does kind of sound like you guys are mad that the youtubers don't wanna play cEDH Eh, it more like, to me personally, that this professional Commander player’s definition of a Casual game of Commander is just extremely dated... https://twitter.com/thekristenemily/status/1289498393727950848?s=21 https://twitter.com/thekristenemily/status/1289366380861698048?s=21 If she’s saying “I just wanna play a game of Commander where no one literally does anything except ramp for the first 4-5 turns and everyone plays medium powered- threats sparsely while I slowly make bad angels...” and complaining that no one else wants to do that... I mean the truth is I heard this exact sentiment more or less from my LGS when Ikoria came out. Older players who got into Commander like 6-7 years ago feel outclassed by newer players with Atraxa and Ur-Dragon and Chulane, even though those commanders are considered some of the more high-powered casual commanders of the day. My point is that for an extremely enfranchised player like her to be so out of touch with the state of the game and to publicly wring her hands like it’s something the EDH player is intentionally doing out of spite and not simply the collective power creep of both the cards and the average player. But ASIDE from all that, they also wrote an article last month that was all about how White has gotten lots of powerful upgrades in Commander over the last year, and I was very excited about that article, because I love White spells. I tweeted at her “hey Kristin, great new article, but no mention of Heliod in your article about powerful new white cards for Commander? He’s so powerful!” and her response to me was essentially “oh well this is a COMMANDER article and I don’t ever discuss Competitive EDH, that’s a Competitive Card...” and genuinely seemed kind of pissy that I would somehow “mistake” an article about NEW POWERFUL WHITE CARDS IN COMMANDER as being about competitive white cards. I think the idea that certain content creators promote that cEDH isn’t just EDH being played at the highest power level but is actually its own sEpArAtE FoRmAt! is extremely toxic and needlessly divides the community for zero benefit, and this person has a lot of reach and is highly visible and seems to just actively hate people playing good cards/decks. Edit: also the “1-10” power level scale is starting to break down. If a 5-6 means no game actions until T4, then a 3-4 is what, no game actions until T6-7, and a 1-2 just... never plays anything?
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Aug 1, 2020 13:17
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