Bifner McDoogle posted:But directly charging customers over something as simple as a vaccine makes no sense, offers little innovation or reputation and just leaves everyone pissed off. They're not directly charging customers $3k. It will be subject to the same health insurance costs like any other treatment. The cost of a single day in the ICU stay almost certainly exceeds $3k. I've already said that Gilead shouldn't have charged $3k if only for optics reasons. I've only talked about why it shouldn't be $1.
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Aug 6, 2020 23:49
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Arcsquad12 posted:With a name like Gilead could they have ever beem something other than evil?
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Aug 6, 2020 23:49
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KingNastidon posted:The Sean, it's time for you to Do The Work and show me you know how this works in practice. I gave you an example of a ten year R&D cost and the 10% profit per $1 dose. Show me what sort of volume would be necessary for 2009 NPV to be $0 even if assuming zero dollars were spent on other development costs (e.g. Ebola) that will yield no revenue. Holy poo poo KingNastidon. Not only do you not have the faintest idea as to how R&D in the pharmaceutical industry works, how it is funded, or how their products get to be profitable - you’re also a disgusting piece of poo poo. You should gently caress off forever. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 6, 2020 23:50
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VH4Ever posted:You. I think I'd take the actual sea lion at this point.
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Aug 6, 2020 23:50
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The Sean posted:This request is so absolutely stupid. Maybe he means "actually im talking about gross margin not net profit margin cause i only mentioned COGS" :sarcasm:
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Aug 6, 2020 23:50
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Stop complaining that you can't drive your car because the engine won't start unless you can explain what went wrong and how to fix it
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Aug 6, 2020 23:50
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Oh god. His stupid industry thinks contribution to expenses and profit are the same thing, and that's why we're ignoring that the largest private healthcare provider in the world is a non-profit.
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Aug 6, 2020 23:50
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VH4Ever posted:You. That lady was clearly being a racist piece of poo poo and the sealion is in the right
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Aug 6, 2020 23:51
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But if Americans stop believing that the cost of vaccines fund research and development, they might realize that other countries don't have a problem where people have to choose between their utility bills and their medications. And if that's true... then it means those honest upstanding pharma employees that spend their free time shilling for their company in their free time on privately owned forums weren't actually telling the truth!
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Aug 6, 2020 23:51
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Upstanding pharma employee, in his free time: Boy my employer is only following the laws of basic economics! How would we pay scientists if we don't extort sick people? The company they work for: *spends 30 billion dollars on stock buybacks*
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Aug 6, 2020 23:53
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Terror Sweat posted:That lady was clearly being a racist piece of poo poo and the sealion is in the right
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Aug 6, 2020 23:56
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KingNastidon posted:They're not directly charging customers $3k. It will be subject to the same health insurance costs like any other treatment. The cost of a single day in the ICU stay almost certainly exceeds $3k. We get that Gilead isn't walking up with a vaccine and a cartoonishly large bill so big that it will hit the ground and roll out the door, the objection is to the idea that any company would try to make money off of this instead of treating it as a humanitarian or even just patriotic duty. The objection is to the fact that this company is looking to do more than just break even. To go back to goofy analogies: It'd be like if every time Batman stopped you from getting robbed, you had to pay them a commission.
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Aug 6, 2020 23:56
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KingNastidon posted:They're not directly charging customers $3k. It will be subject to the same health insurance costs like any other treatment. The cost of a single day in the ICU stay almost certainly exceeds $3k. So now after having been laughed out of the thread for making someone do Excel tricks for your amusement, you're back defending that no, actually, the profit is only a LITTLE unreasonable but is mostly reasonable. No it isn't. We pay to subsidize this poo poo. gently caress their profits. gently caress pricing life saving vaccines and etc out of people's reach. And gently caress people who defend doing such. Like you. gently caress you.
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Aug 6, 2020 23:56
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plogo posted:Maybe he means "actually im talking about gross margin not net profit margin cause i only mentioned COGS" :sarcasm: 
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Aug 6, 2020 23:56
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Terror Sweat posted:That lady was clearly being a racist piece of poo poo and the sealion is in the right This was made during the height of Not All Men. It is kind of understood that the sea lion was standing in for those guys
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Aug 6, 2020 23:58
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Gilead has tried repeatedly over the years to market Remdesivir for various things since it failed at its original intended use: Hep C treatment. There's no long research chain for it and it saw very little use, which is why they still have a claim upon it. Most medical R&D is more or less marketing research to find something else that the drug miiiiight sorta kinda work for so that A) the patent can be extended and B) it might be able to be sold for something else. Viagra of course is one of the best known examples of it as it originally was a rather mediocre HBP medication that caused erections in older men.
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Aug 7, 2020 00:00
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Hey Nastidon, you seem to be a "whiz" with finance, I'm hoping you'll accept this INSIDER TIP: if you're going to be a walking billboard for your company, make sure to get in on some of that sweet ad spend (Gilead spent on average 2.5 billion dollars a year on marketing from 2010-2017)
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Aug 7, 2020 00:00
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VH4Ever posted:So now after having been laughed out of the thread for making someone do Excel tricks for your amusement, you're back defending that no, actually, the profit is only a LITTLE unreasonable but is mostly reasonable. No it isn't. We pay to subsidize this poo poo. gently caress their profits. gently caress pricing life saving vaccines and etc out of people's reach. And gently caress people who defend doing such. Like you. gently caress you. Do you have any evidence that the government paid for 100% remdesivir development costs from 2009? If not, then I don't know why you're arguing with me. Any costs that Gilead (its investors) invested in remdesivir from 2009-2019 should be included in the 2020 list price. Otherwise there's zero possible chance the remdesivir program (beginning in 2009) will be profitable. Do the NPV, fancy MBA. There's good reason for why MBA's are laughed at.
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Aug 7, 2020 00:04
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maybe provide evidence- any at all- that Gilead has spent $100mil for ten years on the drug. Then i want a spreadsheet that shows how they have to sell it for $3k to turn a profit. please stop posting until you do the work.
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Aug 7, 2020 00:06
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KingNastidon posted:Do you have any evidence that the government paid for 100% remdesivir development costs from 2009? If not, then I don't know why you're arguing with me. Any costs that Gilead (its investors) invested in remdesivir from 2009-2019 should be included in the 2020 list price. Otherwise there's zero possible chance the remdesivir program (beginning in 2009) will be profitable. Cool, bro. Keep on not responding to my specific inquiries. Really makes you look like a cool strong man like our dear leader Trondald Dump. You can have a cool "i'm better than an MBA" flair if you want but it's really incredibly embarrassing when you go "lol mba" while you also are all ""npv" and "I don't know what profit margin means" and "beep boop I'm a business man!"  (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) The Sean fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Aug 7, 2020 |
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Aug 7, 2020 00:08
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Maybe this is not the hill to die on and wreck one's self and turn into a corncob?
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Aug 7, 2020 00:10
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sweet bleeding JESUS can y'all take this slapfight to at least the newly-formed Healthcare thread, or, as an alternative, shut the hell up about it entirely?
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Aug 7, 2020 00:11
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KingNastidon is the normal guy who bought me a red text that said that I was a “crypto-fascist child murder advocate” because I had the temerity to equate Republicans with xenophobes, misogynists, racists, and other kinds of bigots. Like, the second red text that he bought me that night literally included something like “I’m an intolerant crypto-fascist who can’t differentiate between republicans and xenophobes, misogynists, and racists” which is  on a few levels, like the idea that there’s an appreciable difference between bigots and the political apparatus that explicitly works on behalf of bigots. He spent $20 to argue this.Anyway, you should wind him up about the injustices heaped on Covington Kid, he seems to really identify with that little twerp. Whether he’s a bad troll, legitimately unwell, or both you should probably stop wasting your time having a conversation with him.
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Aug 7, 2020 00:16
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Gatts posted:Maybe this is not the hill to die on and wreck one's self and turn into a corncob? Seems like defending for profit healthcare in TYOOL 2020 was the hill this rear end in a top hat was destined to die on. He's that Upton Sinclair quote in the flesh.
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Aug 7, 2020 00:17
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Ok Comboomer posted:KingNastidon is the normal guy who bought me a red text that said that I was a “crypto-fascist child murder advocate” because I had the temerity to equate Republicans with xenophobes, misogynists, racists, and other kinds of bigots. He didn’t just spend $20, he gave $20 to loving Lowtax, in July of 2020. Giant oof.
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Aug 7, 2020 00:20
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punishedkissinger posted:maybe provide evidence- any at all- that Gilead has spent $100mil for ten years on the drug. Then i want a spreadsheet that shows how they have to sell it for $3k to turn a profit. please stop posting until you do the work. Gilead doesn't provide this information. You can say they spent $10M per year instead of $100M. All I'm trying to do is provide some framework for why the drug should not be priced at the marginal cost of $1/vial. Ok Comboomer posted:KingNastidon is the normal guy who bought me a red text that said that I was a “crypto-fascist child murder advocate” because I had the temerity to equate Republicans with xenophobes, misogynists, racists, and other kinds of bigots. You're a moron. I went out of my way to contact GJB to send you a PM saying I didn't buy you that avatar because you seemed to be having a mental breakdown. I have never bought myself nor another person an avatar because I'm not interested in personal harassment (see my post to Sundae today) and instead discussing bad ideas and false information. Do you refute that GJB contacted you with my message?
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Aug 7, 2020 00:22
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Twibbit posted:This was made during the height of Not All Men. It is kind of understood that the sea lion was standing in for those guys "Asians I'm fine with, but Chinese? I could do without" No, gently caress off
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Aug 7, 2020 00:23
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KingNastidon posted:Gilead doesn't provide this information. You can say they spent $10M per year instead of $100M. All I'm trying to do is provide some framework for why the drug should not be priced at the marginal cost of $1/vial. Before you challenge anyone else to refute things maybe you should respond to calls for refutation yourself...? Like, for instance... 1) what is the definition of profit margin? 2) why should medical care be profit-oriented? 3) what is the definition of profit margin because you keep dodging it you coward? The Sean fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Aug 7, 2020 |
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Aug 7, 2020 00:24
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KingNastidon posted:You're a moron. I went out of my way to contact GJB to send you a PM saying I didn't buy you that avatar because you seemed to be having a mental breakdown. I have never bought myself or another person an avatar because I'm not interested in personal harassment (see my post to Sundae today) and instead discussing bad ideas and false information. Do you refute that GJB contacted you with my message? I never got that PM, no
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Aug 7, 2020 00:25
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There is no way even for moderators or administrators to know who bought anyone in avatar. It is a pointless accusation of anyone.
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Aug 7, 2020 00:25
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KingNastidon posted:Do you refute that GJB contacted you with my message? i, uh, just checked my sentmessages and apparently I just thought really hard about it (until just now when I saw comboomer's post)  but yeah i can corroborate that nastidon made a legit effort to smooth things over the last time this came up Pick posted:There is no way even for moderators or administrators to know who bought anyone in avatar. It is a pointless accusation of anyone. and it is in fact a Good Idea to keep purchases as anonymous as possible Goatse James Bond fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Aug 7, 2020 |
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Aug 7, 2020 00:26
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I think $50 (a 5000% markup) is an acceptable level of greed and profit for something they got tax payer money to develop. But $3000?! Can't even understand it.
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Aug 7, 2020 00:27
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KingNastidon posted:You're a moron. I went out of my way to contact GJB to send you a PM saying I didn't buy you that avatar because you seemed to be having a mental breakdown. I have never bought myself nor another person an avatar because I'm not interested in personal harassment (see my post to Sundae today) and instead discussing bad ideas and false information. Do you refute that GJB contacted you with my message? Okay, then someone got so loving angry on the internet they dropped $20 in Noted Domestic Abuser Lowtax’s pocket to own the... libs? The Mystery of the Angry Avatar Buying rear end in a top hat deepens 
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Aug 7, 2020 00:30
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nine-gear crow posted:Okay, then someone got so loving angry on the internet they dropped $20 in Noted Domestic Abuser Lowtax’s pocket to own the... libs? There's literally no way to know who bought the red text avatars and it's really annoying watching people accuse others of doing it all the time
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Aug 7, 2020 00:31
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Hey KingNose or whatever, real question for you. From 2010-2017, Gilead spent 14% of its revenue on research. Their profit margin was 40%. So, knowing that your leash-holders could spend three times as much on research as they do, I guess my question is why does Gilead hate science and the advancement of medicine?
Catalyst-proof fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Aug 7, 2020 |
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Aug 7, 2020 00:32
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Booourns posted:There's literally no way to know who bought the red text avatars and it's really annoying watching people accuse others of doing it all the time Did we ever find out who the Mad Cobber was? Their reign of post-2016 avatar terror was amazing.
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Aug 7, 2020 00:33
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I think I prefer the endless No Joe v Vote Blue No Matter Who battles to this. Did anything other than the NRA thing happen today?
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Aug 7, 2020 00:34
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https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1291512883323572226 I don't think this is how the Madman Theory is supposed to work...
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Aug 7, 2020 00:35
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The Sean posted:1) what is the definition of profit margin? Drug candidates are looked at as "programs." The cost of that program is deemed profitable if the NPV is >=$0 or ROI is >=0%. If you only looked at profitability post approval then essentially every drug would be profitable. You're playing dumb little semantics games because you know nothing about the industry and have repeatedly shown as much. The Sean posted:2) why should medical care be profit-oriented? I haven't commented on this. I've talked about a for-profit company operating in the system as it operates today. If you advocated for 100% nationalization/internationalization of the healthcare industry then that's fine. It's not what we're talking about and you're trying to steer the direction there because you don't know anything about how the US healthcare system operates today. The Sean posted:3) what is the definition of profit margin because you keep dodging it you coward? See #1 GreyjoyBastard posted:i, uh, just checked my sentmessages and apparently I just thought really hard about it (until just now when I saw comboomer's post) I even followed up with you afterwards to make sure you sent it, which you confirmed you did and provided Comboomer's "response." I was legitimately concerned for their well being. I wouldn't have contacted you unless I thought you were one of the good ones. Bad bad bad! KingNastidon fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Aug 7, 2020 |
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Aug 7, 2020 00:37
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Medullah posted:I think I prefer the endless No Joe v Vote Blue No Matter Who battles to this. Joe Biden showed off his old car and D&D ragebrained over what a rich rear end in a top hat he was for... reasons. Trump went to Ohio and rambled about poo poo and almost met with its COVID-positive governor before it was called off at the last minute. Other than that, it’s been a slow news day.
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Aug 7, 2020 00:37
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