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PageMaster posted:very minor last boss spoilers: I had a weirdly hard time with this enough that I remember the exact solution when I finally got it right: Start off by sliding stuff around until everything's solved but flipped 180 degrees (so the color in the stationary little bit in the middle matches the puzzle on the opposite side of the board), then rotate the whole thing so it's right side up.
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Aug 7, 2020 00:18
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Got to the part where the game turns into Wind Waker and my jaw dropped. I'm loving this game. Honestly, the combat is great while also being skippable when I'm not feeling it, the bosses are some of the most fun puzzles in a JRPG, and the open world exploring is a blast. So far, it's basically on par with TTYD for me, and I won't be surprised if it ends up topping it.
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Aug 7, 2020 03:11
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Araxxor posted:Interviews basically stated the lack of individual characteristics is due to a mandate from Nintendo, not Kensuke Tanabe’s fault. Dude said it was a difficult challenge the team was forced to work with. he's a producer on shittons of games not just the "haha i make paper mario bad" guy
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Aug 7, 2020 04:25
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You know Super Mario basically followed the exact same rules. It had child and old toads and Boshi, but apart from that none of the toads or goombas were really unique. All the weird enemies and characters were completely new and alien. The Mario and Luigi games basically have the same rules too. They're in different kingdoms with different characters, and the ones in the mushroom kingdom don't have any special kinds of toads or koopa troopas.
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Aug 7, 2020 04:40
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Amppelix posted:also kensuke tanabe is not someone nintendo is going to get rid of lol A lot of people do not seem to realize that Tanabe has literally been with Nintendo since Doki Doki Panic/SMB2, which he directed, a fact that is probably not unrelated to how much love Birdo continues to get in newer Paper Mario titles. The man co-wrote Link's Awakening (Which, again, may have had something to do with Wart getting a cameo beyond the shared "dream" theming), he's not going anywhere.
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Aug 7, 2020 05:09
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Version 1.0.1 released. Fixed the softlock in Green Streamer as well as a bunch of other 100% prevention glitches.
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Aug 7, 2020 10:36
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Araxxor posted:Interviews basically stated the lack of individual characteristics is due to a mandate from Nintendo, not Kensuke Tanabe’s fault. Dude said it was a difficult challenge the team was forced to work with. Sounds like a poo poo mandate then  I'm not seriously advocating anyone should be fired for the crime of toadification, especially not someone on the level of Kensuke Tanabe. I'm sure restraints can lead to all sorts of interesting results, but banning individuals aside from the known big names seems just plain awful. Especially since it runs counter to what the games were doing with NPCs before: bizarre sidestories with updated dialogues, tattle, etc. I suppose there just is no upside to this, especially in a text-heavy game, where most of the characters can only do short gags before they vanish. I just miss that. Then again, these last three games have definitely turned away from classic RPG mechanics; it's basically an adventure game with more frequent action setpieces now. Kinda makes me wish they'd remove the RPG remains completely. No anemic QTEs and gimmicks, just battle everyone in realtime, like you do in OK already several times. Turn the game into a moderately action-y dungeon explorer game. Might be worth it, considering how many action setpieces we got already.
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Aug 7, 2020 14:38
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I gotta say the Pink streamer section was definitely a low point for the game, the game was starting to lose me a little, however once I was past that point and moved on to the green streamer the game picked up massively again! I'm fighting the boss of the green streamer right now and this entire segment of the green streamer beginning to end is just loving awesome. Shangri-Spa Toads Rule and that was super funny how they owned the minions, Kamek Rules, the thunder boss rules, the entire hype rear end fight to re-take the castle ruled (you better believe I helped the minions kill everyone  , and the turn the game takes into legit horror (those stick figures man holy poo poo and Face Homonculus and all of boswers minions just shredded holy poo poo), also the boss is rad so far, this segment is so much better than the pink streamer. Thankfully I avoided the softlock, will report back when I'm done with the game which should be soon! Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Aug 7, 2020 |
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Aug 7, 2020 15:34
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John Wick of Dogs posted:You know Super Mario basically followed the exact same rules. It had child and old toads and Boshi, but apart from that none of the toads or goombas were really unique. All the weird enemies and characters were completely new and alien. I mean part of what made Thousand Year Door and Superstar Saga really stand out to me is that they took place ENTIRELY outside of the Mushroom Kingdom, in places that played by different rules and had their own unique feel to them. Rogueport was a wretched hive of scum and villainry and Beanbean Kingdom was just an insane land filled with weirdos. Something else I liked about the Mario and Luigi series was that its original characters weren't treated as completely disposable. Fawful appeared in three different games and got a major role in two of them. Starlow also got to appear in 3 games (She didn't just suddenly turn around at the end of BiS and suddenly go "I must go now, my planet needs me" and then die) and even the Shroobs got a small appearance in Bowser's Inside Story.
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Aug 7, 2020 16:37
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I did enjoy this game having several references to other paper Mario's. They're minor but I'll spoil them Toad: It's too bad I don't know anyone who's an expert on bridge experts Bobby: It would be cool if a bob-omb was a ship Captain. Or even an Admiral! the return of the Fan Thing in purple streamer The toads in The Ringer are the Toad Brigade from Color Splash the return of stickers in the environment Birdo's recurring role of making Mario uncomfortably horny. There's even an Easter egg with the same burlesque routine from the previous game And a more major spoiler that's the difference between Olivia and other partners The other partners survived their sacrifice. Olivia is loving dead
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Aug 7, 2020 17:12
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Just Finished the game! HOLY COW, the sheer ramp up in scale and awesome events starting from the final green ribbon all the way to the end was loving incredible. an absolute blast from beginning to end! Also story wise:- BOWSER! BOWSER! BOWSER!!! the final slide puzzle was rear end difficult lol but eventually I got it  Olivia.... Thank you..... you're the greatest, thank you for the memories.... I dont understand why people are hating on the ending, I thought it was perfectly good and appropriate to the themes of the game. Olivia sacrificed herself to save the mushroom kingdom, the theme of the game is the acceptance of loss and living your life to the fullest with the time you have, we had this before with bob-omb and now we have it with olivia, Olivia had a wonderful time and had to say good bye to save everyone, I for one think this is a very nice disney-style way to sell a theme to kids, and much like any disney movie and nintendo game, obviously the day had to be saved and things would go back to normal, anyone expecting anything else are insane, the final shot with the floating baloons teared me up quite alot not gonna lie, I am a huge sucker for nice endings with charismatic music like that. I do wish they did something with olivias memory by the end though. Overall, I give this game a very solid, highly recommended 9/10, the only real drawback of the game was it's overly simple regular battle system while it's snappy and quick, the fact that you only had two ways to beat enemies made it too simple and not as interesting as it could be, it needed more. but thankfully, the game did not overdo it or overstay its welcome and this was more than balanced by the abundance of very clever boss and mid-boss fights. The pink ribbon was the lowest point of the game. the MUSIC is loving incredible, whoever made the music for this game had the time of his life and half the fun and experience of this game is the music alone, utterly loving fantastic music. It doesnt stop getting more awesome until the very end. Boss fights was great, Graphics were incredible, Characters were fun and funny, overall, I walked into this game with low expectations considering my love of the TTYD and wanting a disney-pixar style fun and emotional story and experience, I wanted to laugh, be enchanted, and cry manly tears, and I was completely and utterly satistfied, I got that and more. I recommend paper mario very much, and enjoyed my time thoroughly with it and will fondly remember the characters in it. I'm happy I bought it and experienced it. 9/10! Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Aug 8, 2020 |
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Aug 8, 2020 15:24
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Al-Saqr posted:Ending talk Most people dislike the ending because It feels kind of rushed. Olivia makes her wish, luigi goes 'wait where is she' then suddenly everyone is partying and having a great time and 'wow thank you origami!' when the only good origami was Olivia. Also in Sticker Star Kersti does a heroic sacrifice so you can beat Bowser and is never seen again. Color Splash Huey does a heroic sacrifice so you can beat Bowser and you actually see his lifeless body in the true ending. In Origami King Olivia just offs herself when she very easily could of worded things or said 'except me' so it's just a repeat of the previous 'partners' dying. It sucks that these characters are doomed to die by the Mario Mandate, even if you didn't like them. Next Paper Mario is going to introduce a new sidekick character and they'll probably kill it too during the final boss. ThisIsACoolGuy fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Aug 8, 2020 |
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Aug 8, 2020 15:33
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Most people dislike the ending because but kersti and the bucket didn't actually die
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Aug 8, 2020 15:40
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Most people dislike the ending because I guess that makes sense, I didn’t know anything about the previous partners so i wasnt aware of this pattern. I agree that they should’ve given Olivia a little bit of a better final note. But as someone coming into this fresh, I think it was appropriate, Olivia sacrifices herself to undo her brothers spell, and sadly her brothers spell included herself. I think the final shot on the throne in the ending and Peach’s acknowledgement of her sacrifice was good, but I agree they should’ve given us just a little extra something. Overall I leave this game with very positive feelings and I don’t mind at all this new direction they’re taking paper Mario in as long as they actually deepen the regular combat system next time, that’s the only real drag on this game. Everything else has been A+
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Aug 8, 2020 15:56
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John Wick of Dogs posted:but kersti and the bucket didn't actually die Don't fully recall Kersti but Huey is full on dead, the bucket doesn't even have eyes when it lands back in the fountain. It just clangs off the side and floats sidewise in the paint pool. You can say that it revives him off screen but the entire vibe is he's dead.
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Aug 8, 2020 16:00
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Don't fully recall Kersti but Huey is full on dead, the bucket doesn't even have eyes when it lands back in the fountain. It just clangs off the side and floats sidewise in the paint pool. You can say that it revives him off screen but the entire vibe is he's dead. What, no. It landing in the pool is proof it's still alive and gonna revive. That'd be a hell of a macabre %100 ending, lol look at this corpse.
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Aug 8, 2020 16:12
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I just don't at a personal level care about owning the thematic and emotional spirit of a 'sacrificial wish' timeworn fairy tale ending to a very fairy tale story with facts and logic. not saying that's not valid criticism to how they structured and executed the concept necessarily but it doesn't factor into the impact for me, especially because of the presentation. if i try to appraise like that through my own purview it just comes off as hey just wish for infinite wishes kind of poo poo. I also didn't play color splash or finish sticker star though so who knows how tired that would've inherently made me if this were my third pass through the idea lol anyway the bittersweet capstone/sendoff OP wanted is the 100% scene, I'd just look it up. between the ambiguity in the nature of everything and the craftsman calling his fold of olly's body his final fold of life, olivia's silent look toward mario implying understanding and resolution of consequence and intent and mirroring bobby's decision and influence, luigi and peach's lines, the little hopeful stinger of olly's theme in the ending music, and the collectible you find in the plaza postgame, I got everything I needed out of her story through the base experience. it reminded me a lot of how ramza and his sister are handled in FFT's ending philosophically. also this is a non-sequitur sort-of but I appreciated bob-ombs showing up on the princess peach in the character tour credits and bobby's memory becoming a part of shogun studios' festivities with the fireworks. I think the game handled the in memoriam stuff just fine tbh
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Aug 8, 2020 16:12
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John Wick of Dogs posted:What, no. It landing in the pool is proof it's still alive and gonna revive. That'd be a hell of a macabre %100 ending, lol look at this corpse. I think it's just trying to be gentle and answer the last question. Early in the game when he has to absorb the black paint he talks about how it's ripping him apart from the inside and how terrible it is. Then the final boss puts you on a timer because Huey says he's going to die from taking too much in- his last words being that he'll find a safe place to deposit it and gives them all a fond farewell. 100% just shows the can with no eyes still dented and beat up clanking into the fountain while a music box rendition of the games theme plays (or just a soft version). Feels like how I saw people go 'yo are they reviving Olivia???' just because the Craftsman builds little paper dolls of her and Ollie being happy.
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Aug 8, 2020 16:18
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Also, another poster said something earlier in this thread that makes the ending make more sense. Olivia is a naive and child-like person, she doesnt think with her head but with her heart to do what's right, she made the wish the same way she made every other decision in her life, without thinking but with pure intentions. Also, I just looked up the 100% ending, and it gave me EXACTLY the ending I was looking for, this game's story rules, thank goodness they tied that bow in the end. what a wonderful fairy tale, I teared up all over again Violen posted:anyway the bittersweet capstone/sendoff OP wanted is the 100% scene, I'd just look it up. thanks dude, that was EXACTLY what I wanted and teared up quite a bit all over again, this game rules and I love this little wonderous fairy tale. This game has tremendous heart and is a wonderful fairy tale game. I loved it to bits. Al-Saqr fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Aug 8, 2020 |
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Aug 8, 2020 16:23
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The headspace I was in experiencing the main throughline of the plot is also why I didn't get too beat-up about the logistics of olly's motivations or the general idea of unforeseen consequences of creating life which are treated seriously and played straight by the tone outside of a little meta-wink with the 'it's toads all the way down' thing, so that's how I treated it internally. like it's the symbolics that mattered to me and they worked for me through the lens of some dark pinocchio poo poo. it all felt like pretty established antiquity fable about the concept of automatons and stuff and it played its salon era heaviness and darkness where it wanted to just fine also I actually don't agree with the read that Olivia bumbled her way into her own unmaking at all lol, her and olly definitely have a childlike perspective on everything and that's a critical part of their characters, but I don't think it extends to something quite that sadistic or that the exploration of those traits were interested in that direction. otherwise I don't see what the point of her long glance at mario before making her wish are meant to impart because otherwise from her perspective what's the big deal. I think a clear understanding of what she's about to do ties in to her relationship with bobby way cleaner, too Violen fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Aug 8, 2020 |
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Aug 8, 2020 16:33
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Also, considering that now we found out through the articles that have come out since the games launch how many restrictions the team had on them to do with characters in the mario world, it's even more impressive that they made such a nice and fairy tale story as they did, those guys did a really great job with the restrictions they had.
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Aug 8, 2020 17:12
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Finished the game, enjoyed it a lot. It is frustrating that Nintendo has all these weird restrictions on what can and can't be in a paper mario game now though, like as creative as the game was we're never going to get anything as well drawn and interesting as the Bean-Bean Kingdom or Rougueport again are we? I hope in the next one they just drop the battle system entirely, i liked the puzzle aspect but its kinda dumb theres only really 2 patterns to make. Also theres no tactical choice, either you enter the solution and get the damage boost that lets you trivialise the fight or you don't. Theres's no choosing to arrange enemies in certain ways and you have useless leftover poo poo like the hurlhammer that lets you hit far away enemies with a hammer attack but a) if enemies are in that formation but not in range of the hammer you allready hosed up and are doing 2/3 damage and b) it doesn't even have the properties of a hammer attack if you use it in a boss fight, so you can't use it in place of an actual hammer attack for the scripted bits. The boss fights were pretty nice though, if a bit simplistic. It was nice how they kept mixing up the mechanics but that kinda petered out towards the end, like the stapler didn't do anything to the board and the staple depleting didn't really go anywhere, they just did a strong attack that depleted them automatically after a coule of turns anyway. The final boss was just a bossrush except you just had to do the same 2 actions for all the bosses. A step up from color splash at least and anyone complainjng about the durability on the attack items is nuts I just used the most powerful items at all times and never ran out. But just please try something new next nintendo instead of putting these watered down remanants of a once interesting battle system into each and every new one of these. If you're making an action adventure game just stop putting these rpg like battles in the game go full puzzle if you must. I drat near got 100%, do I need to do the boss battle simulatior/get a perfect score on the quiz to see the extra cutscene? Mr Phillby fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Aug 8, 2020 |
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Aug 8, 2020 19:34
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Mr Phillby posted:I drat near got 100%, do I need to do the boss battle simulatior/get a perfect score on the quiz to see the extra cutscene? Yes. Have fun with that. 
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Aug 8, 2020 20:24
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I'm near the end, right outside peach's castle, and really loving this game. One thing I wish they'd done is having Bowser Jr and Kamek join your party earlier. More characters interacting is nice and I liked their "rally around Olivia" moments and the pseudo sacrifices running up the volcano, and it would've been nice to have them be part of the game before the last few hours. Or the professor toad sticking around, for that matter. They're characters in this game with fleshed out personalities, so I don't think this is a result of the Nintendo Restrictions. I just don't really understand why they seem to want party members to be so disposable (besides Bobby, which I thought was really effective)
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Aug 8, 2020 20:44
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I have to say that a sign of this game's success with writing is that you have people saying "I wish Bowser Jr was around more."
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Aug 8, 2020 21:11
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the biggest plot twist in the game is that Bowser is actually a good dad
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Aug 8, 2020 21:22
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That's not a plot twist, that's been his character outside games for years now 
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Aug 8, 2020 21:28
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Regarding Origami King's ending I didn't really mind it too much, but I definitely got the vibe Olivia knew what she was doing given how the camera pans focused on Mario then Peach's window corpse. I don't think she erased herself just because she didn't word her wish too well. That and she failed to bring her brother back with reason which was her actual goal, he ended up dying instead.ThisIsACoolGuy posted:Don't fully recall Kersti but Huey is full on dead, the bucket doesn't even have eyes when it lands back in the fountain. It just clangs off the side and floats sidewise in the paint pool. You can say that it revives him off screen but the entire vibe is he's dead. Kersti sacrifices herself to power up Mario by being used as a Sticker. After the battle is over, Mario has access to all the Royal Stickers and gets to make a wish, immediately bringing Kersti back, as seen in the next scene, making the whole sacrifice scene immediately pointless. Huey isn't really established as dying. The game makes it explicit he's isolating himself for a long while so he can get rid of the black paint because Black Bowser's Castle is still a massive hazard. The pain you're talking about is because Black Bowser hits really hard with his attacks, and he'll break if you fail to absorb all the black paint in time, it's not the paint itself. The 100% ending shows that, he returns to Port Prisma in his dormant form when his job is done, like he was at the beginning of the game. And he still has his eyes there. Unlike Origami King where it gleefully indulges in paper related body horror and stakes are established, like the folded soldiers can't be freed because Olly has Stapler right next to him to prevent that situation, and he racks up a body count when he squashes Olivia with a boulder, it'd be pretty out of place for Color Splash given the rest of that game's tone to just show you Huey's corpse as a reward for completing everything. He's not even floating in the fountain as a dead body, he's just completely dunked in there. Violen posted:I think the game handled the in memoriam stuff just fine tbh The scene after Bobby's sacrifice was really good with how it dwells on the immediate consequences and having to deal with it. And one thing I really liked about it was that Breezy Tunnel has basically the same tone as the rest of the game's quirky and comedic NPCs. It's just juxtaposed with the events that happened, showing you that life around goes on regardless, and it's a pretty conflicting feeling on top of what just happened. I think it's a really strong piece of writing the more I think about it. Araxxor fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Aug 8, 2020 |
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Aug 8, 2020 22:26
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the unique track that plays there is really good and fits the mood perfectly, one of my favorites on the OST for sure despite being a short loop
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Aug 8, 2020 23:09
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Araxxor posted:The scene after Bobby's sacrifice was really good with how it dwells on the immediate consequences and having to deal with it. And one thing I really liked about it was that Breezy Tunnel has basically the same tone as the rest of the game's quirky and comedic NPCs. It's just juxtaposed with the events that happened, showing you that life around goes on regardless, and it's a pretty conflicting feeling on top of what just happened. I think it's a really strong piece of writing the more I think about it. I admit, it's been a little frustrating seeing the people committed to hating the game without giving it a fair shake because of the development politics deliberately spoil themselves and then simply write off Bobby's death as "baby's first heroic sacrifice" without learning about the way more sobering plot beats of then having to see Mario console his grieving child companion, or later on, Olivia's inability to understand the permanence of death after seeing the identical Bob-Omb troops in Bowser's Castle. I got around to playing Color Splash for the first time a week or so before TOK came out, and while it had a lighter tone on the whole, that game also clearly started the thread of Intelligent Systems commenting on the disposable nature of Bowser's minions that continued into this one. Not just with the Sunset Express Shy guy either, it's all over the place, the game often doesn't distinguish between "real" enemies and minions who will chat you up until you walk up to them, and there's an uncomfortable amount of gags where they admit you're probably going to kill them someday and that's Just How Things Go.
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Aug 9, 2020 03:03
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YoshiOfYellow posted:Yes. Have fun with that. Regarding Bobbly there were 2 bits that really stuck out to me: if you check the pile of rubble after cheering up Olivia thetes a brief scene where Mario just stands there for a moment. I dunno why but that just really got me. The other thing is I really hated how meanspirited the section on the airship felt. On balance I felt lke Bobby's death felt contrived but was handled well enough that I didn't mind it but that scene felt like 'this is the punchline to Bobby's death' and I did not care for it.
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Aug 9, 2020 14:48
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Mr Phillby posted:To youtube I go then. If you go use the photo booth at Shogun Studios Bobby's ghost will be with you
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Aug 9, 2020 15:56
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I keep finding contradictory information about this. To get the bonus ending, do I need to: A.) 100% the stuff on the map menu screen (toads, holes, treasures, ? blocks) B.) 100% absolutely everything (everything in A plus trophies and museum) I've nearly done A so I'm willing to close that out, but if it turns out to be B, fuuuuuuuuuck that, I'm gonna watch it online instead.
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Aug 9, 2020 22:00
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surf rock posted:I keep finding contradictory information about this. Trophies too. Just Youtube it, it's like 15 seconds long.
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Aug 9, 2020 22:17
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I did it but youtubed the ending anyway cause I didn't feel like fighting the final boss again
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Aug 9, 2020 22:19
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Regy Rusty posted:I did it but youtubed the ending anyway cause I didn't feel like fighting the final boss again He's a lot easier and faster the second time, especially the last part
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Aug 9, 2020 23:15
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All trophies involves getting everything in the map list anyway, I don't know why you'd assume you wouldn't need them for 100%
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Aug 10, 2020 10:31
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As someone who was bashing their head in vain against half the puzzles from Chapter 3 onwards, I'm surprised people struggled with the last puzzle against the final boss. You just slide the colors so that they all line up together, and then rotate the whole image so that it's right-side up. I actually thought it was really easy.
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Aug 10, 2020 17:03
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several factors about the battle are designed to make it hard to realise how simple the puzzle is. and they work.
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Aug 10, 2020 17:16
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Augus posted:As someone who was bashing their head in vain against half the puzzles from Chapter 3 onwards, I'm surprised people struggled with the last puzzle against the final boss. You just slide the colors so that they all line up together, and then rotate the whole image so that it's right-side up. I actually thought it was really easy. I didn’t realize this until the timer had run out and I redid it. Then I felt like an idiot. Tbh the scrambled image looked like total nonsense at first. Edit: thankfully the game just lets you redo the puzzle if you fail instead of forcing you to do the whole boss battle again!
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Aug 10, 2020 17:55
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