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The top is open, but you might be right - most of the tests showing exhaust yielding better results with downdraft coolers use vented side panels so you get air coming in the sides and leaving the top and bottom. With solid panels it might not matter as much or at all.
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# ? Jul 21, 2020 20:56 |
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# ? Apr 27, 2024 17:39 |
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Since we're talking about the SM560 (vented all round), it's been brought to my attention that running 50-60C when idle probably isn't a good thing? Maxes out in the 80s when gaming, so that's less concerning, but would explain why my exhaust fans are always going I'm running a R5 3600 with the stock cooler, but I'm looking to upgrade that to the Cryorig C7G but replacing the stock fan with a Noctua A9x14 Could just be bad paste (thermal grizzly veto bait via pea method), but figured may as well go for a better cooler anyway Tl: dr is : stick with kryonaut or get a different paste it doesn't matter? I figure with sff a few degrees difference between pastes can make a difference?
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# ? Jul 24, 2020 01:12 |
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X13Fen posted:Since we're talking about the SM560 (vented all round), it's been brought to my attention that running 50-60C when idle probably isn't a good thing? Maxes out in the 80s when gaming, so that's less concerning, but would explain why my exhaust fans are always going How old is the paste? What component is running 50-60C idle? GPU? CPU? VRM? Is it actually idle and not working on another process? IIRC Wraith coolers were supposed to be perfectly fine for Ryzen chips, but I don't know what "normal" looks like for a 3600. Basically we'll need more details. edit: Here's the Optimum Tech video on the case. He tested with Intel's 8 series chips, so you'll probably one to get one of the AMD folks to weigh in on your temps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rlLXLObXKM Warmachine fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Jul 24, 2020 |
# ? Jul 24, 2020 01:20 |
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Warmachine posted:How old is the paste? What component is running 50-60C idle? GPU? CPU? VRM? Is it actually idle and not working on another process? Whoops, yeah should've specified. That's my CPU's temps when idling, using kryonaut applied in December last year when I built it. Pretty sure there's no other processes running, but could be wrong
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# ? Jul 24, 2020 01:54 |
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X13Fen posted:Whoops, yeah should've specified. That's my CPU's temps when idling, using kryonaut applied in December last year when I built it. Pretty sure there's no other processes running, but could be wrong A bit of cursory searching suggests 50-55C is normal idle, which is loving bonkers to me on Team Blue but if I recall what I watched last night correctly AMD's chips "target" the 60-65C area with PB2. You're probably fine. A better cooler would be great, but your Wraith is performing as expected.
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# ? Jul 24, 2020 05:22 |
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Huh, go figure. Ah well, I guess it's a little less urgent then, but will still swap it out and see what happens. Thanks for the help
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# ? Jul 24, 2020 05:51 |
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If I use the Ryzen Balanced plan my 2600 idles at around 50. If I use Windows Balanced it goes down to mid 30s.
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# ? Jul 24, 2020 18:09 |
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For what it is worth, my 10700k clocked at 5.1GHz 8c/16t idles at 35C on a 240mm AIO. I use offsets, so it's not constantly chugging all the watts, but still. I forget what my 3750k at 4.1 was doing on an L9i, but I'm pretty sure the idle was still lower. These are apples to cabbage comparisons of course. I'm talking Intel processors, and AMD does things differently.
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# ? Jul 24, 2020 18:38 |
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I have a 3600 cooled with a Noctua NH-U9S, and mine runs upper 30s to low 40s idle, and low 80s at 100% load. Given the difference in size of the heatsink, low 50s doesn't seem surprising. How fast are your fans running at idle? Are the bottom fans intake or exhaust?
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# ? Jul 25, 2020 15:42 |
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Repasting would only help if it eliminates something that went wrong completely (eg. people who forgot to remove the plastic sheet under the cooler) but if you applied your paste properly I'd expect like a 5°C difference, not almost 20.Warmachine posted:A bit of cursory searching suggests 50-55C is normal idle, which is loving bonkers to me on Team Blue but if I recall what I watched last night correctly AMD's chips "target" the 60-65C area with PB2. The T_die of my 2700X (which is roughly as warm as a 3600) is usually in the area of 35-45°C when it's just sitting there and that's in a Dan A4 (no case airflow) with a Noctua NH-L9a (way smaller than the stock cooler) on Windows Balanced. I have a long-term power limit of 95W set, but that affects boost clocks, not idle clocks/temperatures.
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# ? Jul 25, 2020 22:28 |
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For anyone interested/looking, Amazon has the Corsair SF600 Gold SFX 600W PSU for $120ish after tax https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CGI5M24/ref=twister_B07V8MPTXT?th=1 — finally starting to get the rest of the components for my SFF build [edit] fixed link [edit 2] On impluse I bought an evga b-stock 1660 ti for $150 just now, not realizing it's a 2.75 slot GPU (it's this chonky boi https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=06G-P4-1261-KR). Looks like I can't use it in the SG13 I bought 2 months ago for my SFF build, lmao. Guess I have to get an NR200 now. teagone fucked around with this message at 09:49 on Jul 29, 2020 |
# ? Jul 28, 2020 10:04 |
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Alright, I have the NR200 pre-ordered since I can no longer use my SG13. Some quick questions about optimizing airflow for the case. I'll be using older components: Core i7 4770, GTX 1660 Ti. The NR200 comes with a 92mm fan (rear) and a 120mm fan (top) preinstalled. I plan on leaving those fans in the stock configuration. I ordered another 120mm CM rifle bearing sickleflow fan for the top. What additional fans should I consider? Or do I even need to bother? Should I not bother with the rear 92mm fan and take that out? The 1660 Ti model I got is this 2.75 slot model from EVGA: https://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=06G-P4-1261-RX — would installing two additional 120mm fans (slim versions) on the bottom of the case be ideal? Or would they impede/interrupt airflow of the GPU somehow? Am I wrong to assume that the bottom mounts for fans is only really optimal in configurations where the GPU is vertically mounted? Other components in the case would be a 500GB WD Blue SSD and a Corsair SF600 PSU. The CPU cooler I'm using is this one: https://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?area=en&pid=691
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# ? Aug 9, 2020 20:20 |
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No one knows yet... our best piece of knowledge is the optimum tech video. That’s pretty much all we have. Just experiment and let us know how it goes.
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# ? Aug 9, 2020 21:05 |
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Sounds good. Gonna just try out the rear 92mm and 2 x 120mm fans up top when I do the build sometime next week.
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# ? Aug 10, 2020 01:12 |
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yeah I'd stick with the default fan configuration at first. Probably done for a reason.
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# ? Aug 10, 2020 02:04 |
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toying with the idea of doing a SFF build, between my roommate needing a new computer (I'd be handing down my i5-7600K/1060 GTX to them) and my bedroom for the next couple months bein super tiny and me continuously busting my shins on my giant loving Fractal R5 every time I try to walk past it. possibly more reasonable to just, buy an ATX case that is slightly smaller, or if I'm getting a totally new PC just do a micro-ATX build, but I've been sucked into this Mini-ITX stuff by Youtube and I'm debating whether it's practical enough to pursue. I'm pretty naive when it comes to PC building (the R5 was a decent experience but that has a lotta room to work in), and I've never touched liquid cooling or anything like that (since I've never done overclocking or anything needing it before), so I'm a little bit in the dark, but the NR200 seems fairly simple. I'm currently looking at a build like quote:PCPartPicker Part List: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/b2kC7T the mobo is one I kinda grabbed at random from someone's build in the SHSC thread, dunno if there's a more budget option available there or if that's as low as I can go. the GPU up in the air, I would like to just get a 2060 but I'm annoyed by the price tags right now. one question I had was CPU cooling. with the caveat that, as the above posters discussed, the NR200 is a bit of a mystery box right now. without knowing much about it, I think it seems fair to assume the stock Ryzen 3600 cooler isn't gonna be adequate, right? seems like no one's doing SFF builds using it, though some people with ATX cases say it's fine. would be happy to be proven wrong here and save some money, but I'm assuming I am gonna need to find a cooler. given that Optimum Tech's video notes you can get up to a NH U12A into the case in the non-windowed variant I'm getting (which is 158mm), what kinda coolers would y'all recommend? I was looking at maybe the Scythe Fuma 2 (155mm), but I saw some debate about using a tower vs top flow cooler, but I don't know how to pick a top-flow cooler since they seem not very common
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# ? Aug 10, 2020 06:08 |
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Generally you want to jam the biggest cooler in there as possible. If you don’t overclock it should run essentially silent. Hell it will still probably be pretty much silent even if you do overclock.
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# ? Aug 10, 2020 08:45 |
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The case is large enough so it doesn't restrict the size of your GPU and coolers much, and it can use a "normal" setup with front to rear/top airflow, so a top-down cooler isn't strictly necessary . The smaller cases often don't have actual airflow or room for tower coolers, so they use top-down coolers to pull in air from the outside and - preferably - cool the mainboard's VRM and RAM. The Ryzen stock cooler should work fine in terms of cooling, but it's somewhat loud at higher RPM (ie. when it's not idle). Personally I would actually put the NH-U12A in it but the cooler is expensive (and overkill), so I can see why you wouldn't want to .
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# ? Aug 10, 2020 08:52 |
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Also, you might want to take a look at the price vs performance difference between the 3600 and 3600XT The XT series is the Zen2 refresh series. It bumps the performance by a significant margin but also increases the TDP from 65 to 105 iirc. Just something to keep your eye on, especially if you can find the stock 3600 for cheap and don't want the extra power draw.
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# ? Aug 10, 2020 12:08 |
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VulgarandStupid posted:Generally you want to jam the biggest cooler in there as possible. If you don’t overclock it should run essentially silent. Hell it will still probably be pretty much silent even if you do overclock. I’m also in the “pre-ordered NR200 but not sure about cooling” boat. From the launch images of the case on CM’s website, it looks like they have a Hyper 212 plunked inside, but that’s 3.8mm taller than they say will work, so I’m going to use the Ryzen 5 3600 with stock cooler until I can figure out for certain what’ll fit in there. Also will be curious to see what fan configuration people use - ordered an additional 120mm case fan but leaving it as they configured other than that. For the folks asking about the Gigabyte B550i - I also got that guy after waiting a while for it to come back in stock. I got it at micro center with the $20 CPU bundle discount, so it was essentially in B450 price territory at that point. Seems like the consensus was uniformly positive, and unlike the X570 variant it doesn’t use one of the system fan headers on the chipset, so will better accommodate all the fans in the NR200. Haven’t built it yet, though, so that’s just based on reading online.
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# ? Aug 10, 2020 12:31 |
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LordAdakos posted:Also, you might want to take a look at the price vs performance difference between the 3600 and 3600XT The 3600xt is like 2-4% faster than the 3600 for like an $80 difference. It is faster, but I wouldn't call the difference significant. The additional power consumption isn't as bad as the specs make it seem (something like 10-15w in actual use iirc) but still relevant for sff. I don't think the 3600xt makes sense at all unless you live somewhere where the price difference is like $5-10.
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# ? Aug 10, 2020 13:41 |
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Kikuchiyo posted:For the folks asking about the Gigabyte B550i - I also got that guy after waiting a while for it to come back in stock. looks like it's actually out of stock everywhere right now, yeah no idea how long to expect for it to come back in stock, hm. the other B550 options I know of: - ASRock B550 Phantom Gaming-ITX/ax AM4 AMD B550 SATA 6Gb/s Mini ITX AMD Motherboard ($199) - ASUS ROG Strix B550-I Gaming ($229) - MSI MPG B550I Gaming Edge Wifi ($200 but not actually available anywhere as far as I can tell) I guess if I want to build a mini-ITX PC right now, there are potentially compatible B450/X570 boards I could also look at, I guess? I'm not quite sure what the compatibility issues are there, sounds maybe a bit trickier than just CPU/motherboard mismatches. otherwise the ASRock seems maybe okay, negative reviews mention there's badly-placed right-angle SATA ports but I'm theoretically just going with a single 1TB M2 drive for this build so should be okay, I think...
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# ? Aug 10, 2020 14:38 |
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abraham linksys posted:looks like it's actually out of stock everywhere right now, yeah It seems like they're going in and out of stock fairly frequently - I waited about a week, got tired of waiting and bought Gigabyte's X570 mini-itx board (https://www.gigabyte.com/us/Motherboard/X570-I-AORUS-PRO-WIFI-rev-10#kf) which is one of the cheapest X570 mini-ITX guys I've seen ($219), and then the B550 came back in stock the next day at my microcenter so I returned the X570 and grabbed the B550. The B550 mini-ITX boards look like they only came out a couple months ago, so I imagine they'll be coming in and out of stock pretty frequently, but it can be hit or miss, especially if you can't do in-store pickup.
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# ? Aug 10, 2020 14:49 |
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If it works like the 3600X the TDP difference is in default behaviour, if you set the limits accordingly in the BIOS you can probably make them draw equal amounts of power (but the 3600XT might be very slightly faster/more efficient there). It's not really worth $80 in cases where you can run them at their "auto-OC" boost clocks all day long and even less so in SFF cases where you may or may not want to limit their long term power consumption somewhat. Also people said the case just about fits the NH-U12A with a height of 158 mm despite of the official clearance saying 155 mm max. The Hyper 212 is 159 mm though so Oh also the B550 chipset was officially released in mid June so yeah. For a 3600 you could technically also use a B450 mainboard (with a minor risk of getting one that needs a BIOS update), but B550 (and some X570) boards can have faster LAN and WLAN. The rest of the updated specs don't matter much in SFF PCs. orcane fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Aug 10, 2020 |
# ? Aug 10, 2020 14:50 |
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The U12A is overpriced anyway, I wouldn't buy it for anything. The C14S is probably equal or better performance for less, and there's the Scythe coolers etc.
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# ? Aug 10, 2020 15:35 |
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orcane posted:If it works like the 3600X the TDP difference is in default behaviour, if you set the limits accordingly in the BIOS you can probably make them draw equal amounts of power (but the 3600XT might be very slightly faster/more efficient there). It's not really worth $80 in cases where you can run them at their "auto-OC" boost clocks all day long and even less so in SFF cases where you may or may not want to limit their long term power consumption somewhat. Yes, you can drop the ppt on the 3600x/xt to 88w to maybe get a better binned 3600. You might get like 50-100mhz 1C boost for $80 which is pretty garbage. I'm still firmly in the camp that unless the price difference is like $10 you shouldn't consider the xt.
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# ? Aug 10, 2020 16:09 |
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orcane posted:Oh also the B550 chipset was officially released in mid June so yeah. For a 3600 you could technically also use a B450 mainboard (with a minor risk of getting one that needs a BIOS update), but B550 (and some X570) boards can have faster LAN and WLAN. The rest of the updated specs don't matter much in SFF PCs. hmm, okay, I'll do some searching to find a solid B450 or X570 board, assuming those are kept more in stock
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# ? Aug 10, 2020 16:24 |
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VorpalFish posted:The 3600xt is like 2-4% faster than the 3600 for like an $80 difference. It is faster, but I wouldn't call the difference significant. The additional power consumption isn't as bad as the specs make it seem (something like 10-15w in actual use iirc) but still relevant for sff. I don't think the 3600xt makes sense at all unless you live somewhere where the price difference is like $5-10. Oh geez, I didn't realize the performance was so close. My apologies for suggesting it was significant!
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# ? Aug 12, 2020 01:55 |
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LordAdakos posted:Oh geez, I didn't realize the performance was so close. My apologies for suggesting it was significant! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=669JANzeAo0 Here is an example of the 3800XT being completely useless...
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# ? Aug 12, 2020 02:47 |
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I’m looking to build a small, quiet gaming PC. I haven’t built a PC in years. I have DDR4 RAM, M.2 SSDs and any external peripherals I might need. I also have a spare Windows 10 license. I have no idea what kind of case, fan, board, graphics card to get. I can spend $1200-1500, if I have to. Quiet and small are more important than fast. NUCs don’t seem to be able to hold a decent graphics card. Is Mini-ITX the way? TIA e: this was recommended on /r/buildapcforme - is it reasonable? https://pcpartpicker.com/list/CP64x6 beefnoodle fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Aug 12, 2020 |
# ? Aug 12, 2020 04:35 |
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beefnoodle posted:I’m looking to build a small, quiet gaming PC. I haven’t built a PC in years. I have DDR4 RAM, M.2 SSDs and any external peripherals I might need. I also have a spare Windows 10 license. No. At first I was just questioning the L9i, because it's a decent cooler but uh... not on a 10900k, especially if you're overclocking it. Then I saw the motherboard. What resolution are you gaming at? If you're at 1080, you're fine with a 10600k or a 3600. Similarly, save a few quid on the graphics card and get a 2060 super instead. Use the money you saved to get a motherboard that isn't made of card stock and tin foil. What I linked below is perfectly fine for a 1080p experience. The stock cooler is "fine" but you can take your pick of anything up to 155mm tall (I don't have experience with squeezing 158mm coolers into the case, so ask another goon). AMD chips do better with more cooling, so if you wanna swing for a 280mm AIO go nuts. If you go with something other than the NR200 and that something has USB-C front panel, get the ASUS version of the B550 in ITX--it has a Key-A header for front panel USB-C, but will cost you something like $30 more. You also might have difficulty sourcing the NR200 right now. OptimumTech gave it a glowing review a couple weeks back, which is the surest way to get a run on an SFF part going. https://pcpartpicker.com/list/3h22Xv Don't let reddit build your PC. And also NUCs are a gimmick. The value of a traditional NUC is that it is cheaper to get the integrated board from Intel than to build your own thing at that price/performance ratio (also your PC is the size of a big mac). The NUC 9 or whatever the one is that slots into a PCIe slot is just a hand built ITX with an OEM premium tacked on and cut corners. edit: The more space optimized your case, the more you should expect to pay for it.
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# ? Aug 12, 2020 14:12 |
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Yeah, that list is wild. You should shop around for a case you want to build around first. It's hard to give generic advice when something like the NR200 is near twice the volume as some of the smaller cases.
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# ? Aug 12, 2020 14:48 |
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Thanks both. Starting with “how small can I go and still get a decent graphics card” was the first step.
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# ? Aug 12, 2020 14:53 |
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abraham linksys posted:hmm, okay, I'll do some searching to find a solid B450 or X570 board, assuming those are kept more in stock update on this: the Gigabyte B550 went back in stock on Newegg yesterday, and went out of stock while I was debating whether to pull the trigger on this build is there any downside to getting the Gigabyte B450 instead? it claims to have Ryzen 3XXX compatibility out of the box, and it has wifi and Bluetooth all for $120, which seems like a good deal. only immediate missing feature I see is USB-C which doesn't seem like a huge deal: https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-b450-i-aorus-pro-wifi/p/N82E16813145086
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# ? Aug 12, 2020 15:19 |
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abraham linksys posted:update on this: the Gigabyte B550 went back in stock on Newegg yesterday, and went out of stock while I was debating whether to pull the trigger on this build No pcie4, may not take zen3 are the main caveats on b450 vs b550.
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# ? Aug 12, 2020 15:25 |
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beefnoodle posted:Thanks both. Starting with “how small can I go and still get a decent graphics card” was the first step. The answer to this is "really god drat small." If you take my 2060 super/3600 advice, you can slap that in a Velka 3 and have the tiniest 1080 gaming PC in the world. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5_1x9cWbOE That said, good luck sourcing the parts. I don't think I've seen a Velka 3 in stock in the past year, and the GPU shortages from COVID combined with the imminent release of the next gen cards makes anything other than the leftover full size cards impossible to find. (Plus the Velka's reliance on the flex ATX power supply makes it loving loud.) I'd say the SFF size range goes between the Velka 3 and the NR200, so pick something in that range and I can give recommendations.
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# ? Aug 12, 2020 16:48 |
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I'm working on a SFF gaming PC build. My goal is to do it for roughly the cost of a normal mid-range Ryzen 5 system. My only other requirement is support for a full size GPU (which is why I chose the Ophion Evo). My hope is that spending the extra $50 or so on a liquid cpu cooler will give me roughly the same noise/temp as if I did a larger case with better airflow. PCPartPicker Part List CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor ($159.99 @ Microcenter) CPU Cooler: Corsair iCUE H100i RGB PRO XT 75 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($119.99 @ Amazon) Motherboard: ASRock B550M-ITX/ac Mini ITX AM4 Motherboard ($109.99 @ Microcenter) Memory: *Crucial Ballistix 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory ($74.99 @ B&H) (or whatever is on sale) Video Card:RX 570 (from old PC) SSD:250GB (from old PC) Case: RAIJINTEK OPHION EVO Mini ITX Desktop Case ($144.90 @ Newegg) Power Supply: Corsair SF 600 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular SFX Power Supply ($111.05 @ Amazon) (Already purchased along with an ATX adapter) Total: $720.91 Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available *Lowest price parts chosen from parametric criteria Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-08-12 13:40 EDT-0400
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# ? Aug 12, 2020 18:54 |
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Hashtag Banterzone posted:My only other requirement is support for a full size GPU (which is why I chose the Ophion Evo). Hashtag Banterzone posted:My hope is that spending the extra $50 or so on a liquid cpu cooler will give me roughly the same noise/temp as if I did a larger case with better airflow. Splinter fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Aug 12, 2020 |
# ? Aug 12, 2020 19:21 |
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Warmachine posted:The answer to this is "really god drat small." Wow, that's pretty drat small. Not sure I could get my hands in there to connect it all up! This is all great info, I'll come back for more specific help once I've done some more learning.
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# ? Aug 13, 2020 02:07 |
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# ? Apr 27, 2024 17:39 |
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beefnoodle posted:Wow, that's pretty drat small. Not sure I could get my hands in there to connect it all up! The biggest thing you're going to come to hate is that so much of the SFF case market is limited run Kickstarter cases and such, and even for stuff that comes back in stock, it sells out overnight because these tiny space-optimized cases are popular.
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# ? Aug 13, 2020 03:45 |