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I've always thought that episode was stupid personally, but mainly for the tacked on ending to a storyline that was pretty much going nowhere. 39 minutes: "Oh my god why is this grandpa so annoying?" 5 minutes: "Oh it's because I'm a demigod who massacred an entire species. Bye!" Fundamentally pointless.
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Aug 16, 2020 00:15
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Sodomy Hussein posted:I've always thought that episode was stupid personally, but mainly for the tacked on ending to a storyline that was pretty much going nowhere. 39 minutes: "Oh my god why is this grandpa so annoying?" 5 minutes: "Oh it's because I'm a demigod who massacred an entire species. Bye!" Fundamentally pointless. I don't really see how it's more pointless than any other episode of Star Trek and it's a more interesting take on the morality of being super powerful than, like, literally any Q episode
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Aug 16, 2020 00:42
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It's a beautiful episode about the intensity and passion in loving another person. And the grief and loss of not just the person but our own barriers in expressing and working through that loss. And what you'd do to get back to spending just one more day with that person.
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Aug 16, 2020 00:49
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Insane Totoro posted:It's a beautiful episode about the intensity and passion in loving another person. And the grief and loss of not just the person but our own barriers in expressing and working through that loss. And what you'd do to get back to spending just one more day with that person.
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Aug 16, 2020 00:50
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About halfway through the final season of TOS now The Empath- Not really sure what to make of this episode. Apparently the cast enjoyed making it and thought it was good, but I have problems with the entire concept. Advanced aliens torturing helpless people to convince a woman to save them is a bit of a yikes looking at it from a modern lens. I definitely got a lot of The Cage vibes from this episode, although it's done better than The Cage. Making the female lead mute and mostly helpless felt a bit regressive to me now. There are later episodes of Trek where you have advanced species doing amoral things for 'the greater good' and it's done way better than this. Apparently this was shot from a fan script of a college film student and they mostly did it because it allowed them to use very minimal sets at a time where the show's budget was down to almost nothing. The general reaction seems to be that this is a strong Kirk/Spock/McCoy Triumvirate episode and I do agree on that at least.
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Aug 16, 2020 02:28
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this has probably been posted somewhere in this thread by i have no idea where to find it. in any case, i am completely new to star trek. i would like to get into it. where do i even start?
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Aug 16, 2020 02:48
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abelwingnut posted:this has probably been posted somewhere in this thread by i have no idea where to find it. All of the main series including TAS is on Netflix now so you can go through everything if you really want to.
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Aug 16, 2020 02:59
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Start TOS and if it's too old and corny for you, try the TOS movies instead. Otherwise get at least halfway through it and then you'll have seen most of what you "need" to see, the rest is just if you like it and want more. Start TNG any time after that. If you're not in a rush just watch all of it, otherwise a "Best of" list is fine. After that, all of DS9.
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Aug 16, 2020 03:09
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Classic path is start with TNG. Watch Encounter at Farpoint in S1 (not a great episode but sets up everything), then Measure of a Man and Q Who from S2, then just everything starting in 3. If you like it you can go back to the first two seasons, there are some other good episodes buried in there.
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Aug 16, 2020 03:16
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Just watch all of TNG.
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Aug 16, 2020 03:18
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FlamingLiberal posted:Just watch all of TNG. Then all of DS9.
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Aug 16, 2020 03:25
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FlamingLiberal posted:About halfway through the final season of TOS now I have always had a complicated opinion on this one too. I really dig the minimalist aesthetic, I think at least TOS works best when it focuses on the characters. It's by far the most like a stage play TOS gets, and that's saying something.
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Aug 16, 2020 03:40
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Man, I did not like Picard in either episode where he sends a young female officer undercover. One being the 2nd to last episode of the series I believe with Ro Laren. Kind of ridiculous asking her to do that, and then like attacking her and poo poo with threats basically making it seem like she only had the one option which she clearly was uncomfortable with. And then with Sito in I guess Lower Decks episode, that poo poo had me tight.
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Aug 16, 2020 03:57
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abelwingnut posted:this has probably been posted somewhere in this thread by i have no idea where to find it. Don't! Escape while you still have the chance!
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Aug 16, 2020 04:04
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FlamingLiberal posted:About halfway through the final season of TOS now I’ve been watching TOS since I was two and I’ve never figured out what that episode was about. It’s just too weird and loses my interest. I call it the S&M episode.
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Aug 16, 2020 04:05
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The best way to be introduced to Star Trek is via aired out-of-order reruns on your local affiliate station at 2-4 am in a dark, wood panelled basement during a hot summer night with the AC going. Doing this after a night at work/out drinking is optional.
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Aug 16, 2020 04:10
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Grand Fromage posted:Classic path is start with TNG. Watch Encounter at Farpoint in S1 (not a great episode but sets up everything), then Measure of a Man and Q Who from S2, then just everything starting in 3. If you like it you can go back to the first two seasons, there are some other good episodes buried in there. That's a silly reason to suggest someone start with Encounter at Farpoint. TNG is very accessible, you don't have to start from the beginning to understand the characters' relationships with each other or what they're doing out there.
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Aug 16, 2020 04:14
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Brawnfire posted:Don't! Escape while you still have the chance! yea, i get the impression this might be a bad idea. but i really like bad ideas and it seems enjoyable so why not? seems like a great option to have on in the background while i work or do whatever?
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Aug 16, 2020 04:19
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:That's a silly reason to suggest someone start with Encounter at Farpoint. TNG is very accessible, you don't have to start from the beginning to understand the characters' relationships with each other or what they're doing out there. Never said you have to? If you are dedicated to watching Star Trek for some reason, seems to me that it would be nice to have the gist of the series laid out and find out what Q's deal is, which is the closest thing TNG has to an overarching plot conceit.
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Aug 16, 2020 04:19
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McSpanky posted:Episode skippers are without honor
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Aug 16, 2020 04:22
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abelwingnut posted:this has probably been posted somewhere in this thread by i have no idea where to find it. I guess you start by watching Star Trek. I know that seems really obvious, but, you know. As to which Star Trek to start with, I don't know. I got started watching the original Star Trek (often called The Original Series, or TOS), and I think it's generally pretty good, although it has some bad episodes, and it's from the 60s, so some of it hasn't aged well. They're very much stand alone morality plays. As you probably know, it's Captain Kirk and the Enterprise. They're basically alone out there on the frontier exploring uncharted space.. Most of the episodes, the ship either runs into some monster or threat to the Enterprise that it has to stop or finds some planet with a society that's really messed up that Kirk has to fix. Relationship and main characterwise, it focuses a lot on three main characters, William Shatner's Captain Kirk and two of his senior officers, his science officer Mr. Spock, who's half Vulcan, an alien species that has purged themselves of their emotions and sentimentality, who Kirk respects for his intelligence and cleverness, and Dr. McCoy, the ship's chief medical officer, a gruff but compassionate doctor who serve's as Kirk's conscience, always pushing him to do the moral thing and not compromise, even if it's not convenient. McCoy and Spock are very opposite personalities, with McCoy being an idealist and Spock being a pragmatist, but Kirk listens to them both and is a better person for it. The show also introduces the idea that the Earth is part of a Federation of Planets, which is kind of a space UN, where its member worlds, made up of all sorts of aliens, settle their differences and cooperate for the greater good. It also introduces the Klingons as antagonists....an alien empire that rules by fear and slavery...very much the Soviet Union to the Federation's US. The next Star Trek is The Animated Series (or TAS), which I'd recommend not watching first. It's largely a continuation of TOS, but made cheaply animated by Filmation as a Saturday morning TV show for kids. Some episodes are ok, but and there are some people who find it charming , but the animation is really bad, the voice acting uninspired, and while it did do a Star Trek themed adaptation of Larry Niven's "The Soft Weapon", most of the plots are kind of light and not very interesting. The next Star Trek show, and the one that I think most people in this thread got their start on, was Star Trek: The Next Generation. It takes place in the universe of the original show, but about 70 years later than the original show (give or take. Star Trek was always clumsy with its chronology). It's a lot more utopian than the original series, and suggests that the Federation worlds are, as a rule, now post scarcity societies where nobody has to work if they don't want to and people no longer seek physical wealth or material improvement, but everybody lives up to their potential. I think it gets a little preachy and silly on the subject, but to each his own. Also, largely as a result of Glastnost and the fall of the Soviet Union, the Klingons, formerly antagonists, are now more or less friendly. In terms of overall plots, it's pretty similar to TOS, the ship is a ship of exploration, and they're constantly running into new dangers that they have to overcome (usually with science...one joke about the show is that it had heavy use of "technobabble", which was basically a patter of semiscientific terms as the crew discussed how to solve their problems), and and they're constantly finding new species and worlds, all of which have their own challenges and things going on. The special effects are also better, as you'd expect from a late 80s-early 90s show. Not great by today's standards, but much better than TOS. It's much more of an ensemble show than TOS. While TOS focused mostly on three main characters, TNG gives the rest of the cast a lot more to do. It's a large cast, and I won't go over them all, but some of the things to focus on if you're watching are Brent Spiner's android character "Data", who isn't sure of his origins and wants to be more human, and Worf, played by Michael Dorn, a Klingon officer raised by humans who's trying to understand what being a Klingon means. The next show was Star Trek: Deep Space 9, which is about a space station run by the Federation around the planet Bajor, Bajor is recovering from a brutal genocidal occupation by its neighbor, Cardassia, and has asked for Federation help to rebuild. Commanding the station is Commander Benjamin Sisko, played by Avery Brooks, and he's got to negotiate both the running of the station, and dealing with political and religious unrest on Bajor About halfway through the series, another, more serious threat shows up. The show was episodic, although it did have a bunch of multi-episode arcs, and things that happen in one episode certainly create ripples later in the show. The show's significant not just because it had the first African-American captain of a Star Trek show, but also because it looks at the Federation from outside. Many of the characters are from cultures outside of the Federation, and it looks a lot at how cross cultural communication and tolerance plays out. Plus, Sisko is the best dad in Star Trek. I prefer the show to TNG, although a lot of people will disagree with me here. I think it delves into deeper topics and does so less hamhandedly. The next show is Star Trek Voyager, which is about a Federation starship, the USS Voyager, commanded by Kate Mulgrew's Captain Janeway, which finds itself transported to the other end of the galaxy, and has to find its way home. I liked the show, even though some of the episodes were uneven. Some of the standout characters were Captain Janeway herself, and the ship's cynical holographic doctor, played by Robert Picardo. A lot of people don't care for it as much as the earlier shows, and discord on the set between some of the actors probably made show quality suffer, but I still think it's worth watching. The next show is Enterprise (or Star Trek Enterprise), which takes place before the Frederation was formed. It's very much about Earth taking its first steps out into space, under the experimental ship Enterprise, captained by Scott Bakula's Captain Archer. 9/11 happened just before this show aired (the first episode aired on 9/26/2001), and it very much had an affect on the show, with the entire third season about an attack on Earth by a mysterious enemy, and the Enterprise's attempt to find out who did it and why. It got cancelled after 4 seasons, which I think is a shame, but there are a bunch of people who don't like the show even today. I'm not one of them. I think some of the episodes were really, really good. It had a very bad opening song...it was the first show not to go with an instrumental, instead using a cover of Rod Stewart's "Faith of the Heart", which it gets mocked for to this day. The TNG-Enterprise run was a pretty consistant block of Star Trek shows overlapping from 1989-2005, and I think at that point, people were sick of Star Trek. Between oversaturation and production and studio problems, the franchise went dead for a while. There were a bunch of movies reimagining the original series, starting with 2009's Star Trek, but a look at the movies is outside this post. Then in 2017, Star Trek came back with Star Trek Discovery on CBS All Access. Discovery takes place not too long before TOS. It''s the story of Michael Burnham, a human woman who was raised on Vulcan. After the ship she's an officer on runs into the Klingons for the first time, she basically commits mutiny, is courtmartialed and is sent to prison. She's then let out to serve on the USS Discovery, an experimental ship with a new kind of propulsion system, The show triggered a lot of controvery, both because it's only on CBS All Access, CBS's streaming service, and also because the show tends to be a lot thematically darker than a lot of past Star Trek (I think there's also a lot of innate conservativism among Star Trek fans going on, in the sense that "It's not like the TNG I'm used to, so it's bad"). I'm not a giant fan. myself, but it's ok, and it's got Jason Isaacs and Anthony Rapp in it, and they're always good actors. Also Michelle Yeoh, and, if you saw My So Called Life, Wilson Cruz.. The second season is better than the first, I think, and the third season, I think, has an interesting premise. Probably don't start with this one. The next show is Star Trek Picard, which just finished its first season. The main character is Captain Picard from TNG, who's now retired and bitter, after having resigned from Star Fleet after the Federation, having suffered a massive terrorist attack, refused to help with a major refugee crisis, who then is driven back into action when a mysterious woman asks for his help.. A lot of people seem to hate the show. I think it suffers from a lot of problems, especially pacing, and plot threads it picks up and doesn't do anything with, but it's always good to see Patrick Stewart again. It's also completely serialized, which is a first for Star Trek. Still, you might want to pass this one. The most recent show out is Lower Decks, which is about a four ensigns on a Federation ship. It's animated, is a comedy, is kind of a parody, and is very much referential humor. The main conflict in the show , so far, which, to be fair, is only two episodes aired, seems to be between two of the ensigns, one of which is very book smart and always plays by the rules, and one of which is street smart and does what she thinks is right regardless of regulations. It's a very good show, I think, but never having seen Star Trek before means you'll miss a lot of the humor. So that's my summary. I'd say you'd be fine starting with any of them pre-Enterprise.
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Aug 16, 2020 04:24
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vacuum the floor and then learn to bake, jesus
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Aug 16, 2020 04:29
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I like ds9 plenty but lol to everyone who thinks you don't have to be baked in trek to understand what the gently caress it is doing (which half the time it's not sure either)
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Aug 16, 2020 04:43
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OH no not the KHITOMER ACCORDS! the damnable trekless: ??????
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Aug 16, 2020 04:43
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Yeah DS9 is the best Star Trek but you really shouldn't start with it. It's all based around complicating what we saw in TNG.
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Aug 16, 2020 04:46
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Grand Fromage posted:Yeah DS9 is the best Star Trek but you really shouldn't start with it. It's all based around complicating what we saw in TNG.
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Aug 16, 2020 04:57
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FlamingLiberal posted:Yes and there are a lot of plot threads from TNG that tie into DS9 directly (mainly the introduction of the Bajorans, the Cardassians, and the Maquis). klingons
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Aug 16, 2020 04:59
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TOM RIKRE
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Aug 16, 2020 05:01
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*squints* those are klingons!?
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Aug 16, 2020 05:02
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Statutory Ape posted:klingons
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Aug 16, 2020 05:02
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Just start with random one-part episodes from a "best of" list of either the original series or TNG. Original series if you have more of a taste for 60's pulp, TNG if you're feeling more contemporary. They're all highly episodic so the order doesn't matter that much. Then if you like what you see, go back and watch both or either series from the beginning. Then DS9 and the subsequent ones only after you've seen plenty of TNG.
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Aug 16, 2020 05:09
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So was Lower Decks' CBS's attempt to preempt Scalzi's Redshirts tv show?
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Aug 16, 2020 07:51
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My friends and I did a thing like 6 years ago where we each created a Trek binge watch list to catch someone up on Star Trek. The rules were it had to include the best and worst episode from a series and it had to be watchable over a long weekend. This was my list. It is slightly out of date because it doesn't include any modern Trek (you're welcome). Trek-a-Thon (32 hours total) The Original Series (8 hours) Honorable mention for Balance of Terror, just no room for it. The Corbomite Maneuver Kirk bullshits his way to victory. This is a reoccuring thing in TOS. The Devil in the Dark Great episode, highlights the “Value of Life” theme Trek has. The City on the Edge of Forever The “good” episode, written by Harlan Ellison (mostly, sort of), one of the few really good time travel stories in the franchise. The Omega Glory The worst episode of The Original Series, jingoistic garbage, racist, one of the “what sets are available this week” or “cowboy planet” episodes, Kirk saves the day by reading the preamble of the constitution. If it were made today Kirk would have been singing it from the back of a pickup truck while telling the Khoms to “git out!” Be sure to mention that Gene Roddenberry was bizarrely proud of this effort and repeatedly tried to submit the script for consideration for various awards. Mirror, Mirror The Mirror Universe episode! Best known to the general public as the one with goatee wearing “evil Spock” one of the most parodied episodes of any tv series ever. Also, a decent episode. Space Seed Important because it establishes a little of Trek’s historical back story and because it’s the direct inspiration for two trek movies. Origin of Kahn, arguably the most important villain in Trek. The Wrath of Kahn Including this with TOS immediately after Space Seed. Generally considered the best of the Star Trek films, easily some of the best Sci-fi Trek has ever produced. The Animated Series (1 hour) Cheating because I’m using the best episode and another good episode Yesteryear Considered the best of the Animated Series. Written by TOS writer DC Fontana, covers Spock’s backstory. The Magicks of Megas-Tu The enterprise crew meet, then defend in court, Satan. The Next Generation (10 hours) I’m not going to include any of the TNG era movies because they’re unnecessary at best and un-TNG-like at worst, and the last two are just crap. Honorable mention for Chain of Command. The Measure of a Man Fantastic episode of Star Trek! prooves the “grew the beard” analysis of TNG, shows one of the differences between TOS and TNG in the way the show approaches a tough philosophical question. Also has a good example of “The Picard Speech.” The Royale One of the worst TNG episodes. (using Shades of Grey is cheating) Basically a holodeck episode (which was the TNG equivalent of “cowboy planet”), that is so badly written that the goddamn episodes points out it’s badly written. Who Watches The Watchers One of the better explorations of the Prime Directive. Déjà Q In my opinion the one of the best all around Q episodes. Chosen mostly because it’s an early appearance that’s not the loving terrible TOS episode from season 1, and it’s a Q episode that actually focuses on Q instead of using him mostly as a plot device. Sins of the Fathers You get Tony Todd and a great primer on TNG-era Klingons The Best of Both Worlds (parts 1 and 2) Pretty much the definitive Borg episodes, the first TNG 2-parter, The Drumhead One of the best “important message” episodes, has another fantastic Picard Speech, all around great episode. Cause and Effect Cool Time Travel episode without being a time travel episode. Good example of “weird space thing” episode. Fistfull of Datas It’s a Data episode, it’s a Troi episode, it’s a Worf episode, it’s a Holodeck episode, and it’s a fun episode. DS9 (5 hours) I’m using Move Along Home instead of Profit and Lace because I’ll never willingly inflict that piece of trash on anyone. Honorable mention for Let He Who Is Without Sin because Worf helps terrorists literally rain on everyone’s parade. Duet A fantastic example of early DS9, and the point where the show starts to pull away from TNG. Move Along Home One of the worst episodes of DS9, and an example of the early writers just writing TNG/TOS style scripts instead of utilizing the new setting. The Magnificent Ferengi Excellent example of a Ferengi episode, also has Iggy Pop, In Purgatory's Shadow / By Inferno's Light Great 2-parter that takes place in during the Dominion Arc of the later seasons, basically concentrated Dominion: highlighting the change from TNG pushover Worf to DS9 badass Worf, Changeling terrorist plot, Garak, one of the three or four episodes where Jem’Hadar aren’t just super-soldier phaser fodder. Voyager (4 hours) Honorable mention: SFDebris’ 40-minute review of Threshold. The Thaw One of the few good Voyager episodes (that basically could have been an episode of any of the other series) featuring Michael McKean as an AI clown who basically feeds on fear. Threshold Not just the worst episode of Voyager, not just the worst episode of Star Trek, it could possibly be the worst episode of Science Fiction television, and I’m including UPN’s Homeboys in Outer Space in that comment. Tuvix An example of Voyager’s wasted potential. Take an interesting premise, add a fascinating moral and ethical quandary, and then top it off by having Captain Janeway commit an outright act of murder to press the plot reset button and never mention it again. Blink of an Eye One of the few good Voyager episodes (mostly because it has elements suspiciously similar to a TOS episode (wink of an Eye) and is, I’ll be generous and say appears to be “inspired by” a Sci-Fi novel called Dragon's Egg by Robert L. Forward. Enterprise (2 hours) The Andorian Incident Shows the potential of a prequel Trek series, gives us a great background to the founders of the federation, Jeffrey Combs as Shran, and you get to see the Captain punch a lying priest in the face. Peak Star Trek. Dear Doctor Continuing in the long tradition of Trek writers not bothering to understand the science part of Science Fiction, the episode gets evolution wrong in an effort to justify genocide Star Trek 2009 (2 hours) For good or ill, this is the only Star Trek we’re going to get going forward.
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Aug 16, 2020 07:59
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move along home is a great execution of the concept . i will always love it. "oh, you thought the stakes were here --.... but they're actually -----here!... no. they were ...........here" . allamarine, fool!
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Aug 16, 2020 08:07
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I just finished Enterprise. I didn't think it was possible for an ending to cockblock me more than Voyager's did but holy poo poo they did it. Voyager: "We're gonna spend seven years talking about getting home and seeing earth and what we're gonna do when we get back! The final episode we don't even see the drat planet let alone spend time on it detailing the aftermath." Enterprise: We are literally showing you the signing of the Federation charter and mentioning how integral the NX-01 crew is to it, especially Archer. Then loving Riker of all people is gonna say "we dont need to see this lol" and stop the episode early while we bank on your nostalgia for TNG" The only Old Trek I haven't seen at this point is TOS, TAS, and the TOS movies, so I'm gonna go ahead and watch those soon.
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Aug 16, 2020 08:10
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YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE VOYAGE HOME?!
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Aug 16, 2020 08:13
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Epicurius posted:
Just finished a fresh watch. It's certainly darker than DS9, but also has a bit tighter writing, probably due to the relatively short season and planned arc. I would say the biggest weakness, besides traditional plot holes that exist in any show, is that Star Trek has typically been a more ensemble cast, while Discovery tends to focus very much on the Captain, Burnham, Tyler, and Saru. That isn't to say that you don't get a sense of the other characters, but you rarely see them outside the bridge or chow hall. The shorter season plus the serialized story means there's very little time to explore the secondary characters.
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Aug 16, 2020 10:57
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I had a conversation with a friend of mine the other day (inspired by RLM's Top 5 TNG thing, we decided to do our Top 5 of DS9 with each other), and it sorta spun off into a direction that I don't remember really being talked about here before: how did you all come to Star Trek? I mean, we have plenty of posters regularly asking for recommendations on getting started with the series, but how did you all first start watching/getting into it? I find it really neat to see where and how people got onboarded, because it also often serves as an accurate predictor of questions like "do you think Voyager/Enterprise were any good". For me, I started when I was about 7 years old, watching a rerun of The Motion Picture on TBS. The Motion Picture is of course the most boring movie for a 7 year old to watch, but I at that poo poo up. This was early-mid 90's, so TNG was starting to wrap up and DS9 had just gotten started. For whatever reason I never watched TNG as it was live... I guess whatever local station (I think it was Fox?) that picked it up showed it at a weird timeslot for a kid that young or something. And the local UPN affiliate showed DS9 at like 1am or something ridiculous, so I nearly completely missed out on that series until the DVD releases. So instead I delved deep into the TOS movies, and then started reading TOS novels. Eventually I started watching Voyager when I was like 12 and that became appointment viewing for me, every Wednesday at 9pm. Not because I loved it or anything, it was just The Trek That Was On. A year or two later, TNN (before it was rebranded to Spike) bought the rights to air TNG episodes, and to kick it off they did an entire weeklong non-stop (except for wrestling) marathon of the entirety of TNG. I taped pretty much the entire thing. DS9 became a thing for me when the DVDs started coming out (at a ridiculous like $120 per season) when I was around 15, which conveniently lined up with the time of my life where I discovered  . Enterprise had already started by then and I think was in its second season, and I just couldn't give enough of a drat and didn't watch it.
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Aug 16, 2020 11:12
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Drone posted:I had a conversation with a friend of mine the other day (inspired by RLM's Top 5 TNG thing, we decided to do our Top 5 of DS9 with each other), and it sorta spun off into a direction that I don't remember really being talked about here before: how did you all come to Star Trek? I remember as a kid my older brother watching DS9 on the TV, probably in S2 of the show. He also got a lot of Star Trek video games like Starfleet Academy and Command so I guess I picked it up from all that.
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Aug 16, 2020 14:58
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FlamingLiberal posted:Yes and there are a lot of plot threads from TNG that tie into DS9 directly (mainly the introduction of the Bajorans, the Cardassians, and the Maquis). ya otoh, the klingon TNG thread is one of the few they didnt throw in there specifically so DS9 could run with it 
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Aug 16, 2020 15:11
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