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Gnoman posted:Hard disagree. To compare to the LOTR films, we'd lose a ton if you just showed Pippin and Gandalf lighting one beacon fire. Instead we get that amazing span shot of beacon after beacon alighting until Rohan sees it and Theoden declares he will ride. Sanderson shows Nyneave lighting the beacon by declaring that the Golden Crane rides for the Last Battle, but we don't get the full impact until we see the entire thing. Just skipping to Lan having an army cheapens it. Books aren't movies man. That would not have worked like you hoped.
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Aug 15, 2020 05:32
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Can somebody tell me why Moiraine did not immediately zero in on Rand being the Dragon Reborn. When Gitara made her foretelling, announcing his birth, it was the day of the Battle of the Shining Walls. The last day of the Aiel War, where the forces of the Aiel and the coalition against them had their final battle on the slopes of Dragonmount. Now, which of these sides has female fighters? And which of the three boys very much does not look like a typical Two Rivers person, but instead looks more like an Aiel?? One glance should have told Moiraine who the Dragon Reborn was.
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Aug 15, 2020 12:26
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Torrannor posted:Can somebody tell me why Moiraine did not immediately zero in on Rand being the Dragon Reborn. When Gitara made her foretelling, announcing his birth, it was the day of the Battle of the Shining Walls. The last day of the Aiel War, where the forces of the Aiel and the coalition against them had their final battle on the slopes of Dragonmount. Now, which of these sides has female fighters? And which of the three boys very much does not look like a typical Two Rivers person, but instead looks more like an Aiel?? One glance should have told Moiraine who the Dragon Reborn was. pretty sure she did but TDO's actions in the 2 rivers gave incentive to take the others. or the prophesy did not make him being aiel specific but I don't recall the prophesy well
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Aug 15, 2020 12:36
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Torrannor posted:That's the first I heard of this. Looking it up, these fact came to light in 2014, long after I last read the books. And long after Robert Jordan died. So I'm sad to learn of this, but it has obviously no impact on my question. at least things have improved for victims quote:She hailed the "outpouring of love and support" which has followed her revelations. "What has happened in the past 20 years, apparently, is that rape, child abuse and incest have been enough in the public eye for them to be accepted, and victims and survivors to routinely be believed now, and there are so many survivors among my mother's fans, as well as supporters of survivors and decent people who care about the truth that my mother is now being held to the very standards she wrote about," her email continued. A little ray of hope in the current hell times.
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Aug 15, 2020 13:12
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Torrannor posted:Can somebody tell me why Moiraine did not immediately zero in on Rand being the Dragon Reborn. When Gitara made her foretelling, announcing his birth, it was the day of the Battle of the Shining Walls. The last day of the Aiel War, where the forces of the Aiel and the coalition against them had their final battle on the slopes of Dragonmount. Now, which of these sides has female fighters? And which of the three boys very much does not look like a typical Two Rivers person, but instead looks more like an Aiel?? One glance should have told Moiraine who the Dragon Reborn was. Submarine Sandpaper posted:pretty sure she did but TDO's actions in the 2 rivers gave incentive to take the others. There are multiple parts to the answer to this question. 1) The prophecy does not say Aiel. He is born of the blood, raised by the old blood. 2) Aiel look enough like Andoran blood that Tigraine/Shaiel was not out of place--so the opposite is also true: Kari, Tam's wife, looked like Aiel... and therefore looked enough like Rand to convince Two Rivers villagers. 3) Thus, the only person who knew Rand was adopted in the Two Rivers was Tam. And he isn't talking except in a fever dream, and the only person who heard that was Rand, who ... isn't talking. 4) For whatever reason, the trollocs targeted 3 different households--Mat, Perrin, and Rand. It doesn't help that all 3 are extremely strong ta'veren. So yes, Rand started channeling while on the run from Emond's Field, but the Fellowship was Broken and Moiraine missed most of those occurrences, and the first one was relatively subtle. And that doesn't preclude the other kids from being sparking wilders too ... who knows, right? It really only becomes inescapable when Rand draws from the Eye and starts blowing up poo poo. (Except for us, who see from Rand's POV) VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Aug 15, 2020 |
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Aug 15, 2020 14:11
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Jordan does kinda write like it’s a big revelation to the reader Rand is the dragon.....like duh.
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Aug 15, 2020 14:24
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:There are multiple parts to the answer to this question. Also, from Moiraine's perspective, even if she's 90% sure that Rand is the one she wants . . . the Dark One is clearly targeting the other two boys also. And there might be something she doesn't know. So it's worthwhile for her to want to try to grab all three. If you know that (1 out of 3) lottery tickets is a winner, no point in not grabbing all three, even if one of them is a 90% chance and the other are 5% each.
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Aug 15, 2020 14:47
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Moraine suspects he can channel when she checks Bela and finds she doesn't need to relieved of her endurance pain. It's early in the first book. Don't remember when she tells him this.
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Aug 15, 2020 15:04
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UltraRed posted:Moraine suspects he can channel when she checks Bela and finds she doesn't need to relieved of her endurance pain. It's early in the first book. When she's convincing him along with the amyrlin at the start of book 2
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Aug 15, 2020 15:14
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UltraRed posted:Moraine suspects he can channel when she checks Bela and finds she doesn't need to relieved of her endurance pain. It's early in the first book. Early in book 2 when she and Siuan reveal to him that he's the Dragon Reborn. By that point she also knows that Tam came back with a wife and baby from outside the Two Rivers. I would very much like to know when she learned that fact. And from whom. Rand suspects Nynaeve, which is the only plausible source after they left the Two Rivers. If she learned that info during her brief time in the Emond's Field, she must have know Rand was the Dragon Reborn from that point on.
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Aug 15, 2020 15:18
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Torrannor posted:Early in book 2 when she and Siuan reveal to him that he's the Dragon Reborn. Probably in Baerlon, when Nynaeve shows up.
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Aug 15, 2020 15:30
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I think she told Rand that she totally didn't tell Moiraine that specific fact, during those scenes. Doesn't mean it wasn't completely obvious by her responses or reactions or whatever, of course.
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Aug 15, 2020 15:59
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silvergoose posted:I think she told Rand that she totally didn't tell Moiraine that specific fact, during those scenes. Yeah, she wouldn't have to tell her. Any reluctance to talk about it or not be upfront as to who their birth mother was would be suspicious enough. Mat and Perrin wouldn't consider it a secret who their parents are, and they know they're not adopted. And I always wondered about the Sanderson hate when he finished the book, as most of what I heard when it came out turned out to be stuff that Jordan had written and they left in without any changes. A big chunk of the Mat stuff in the Tower of Ghenjei was Jordan if I remember right, and most of the hate was for Sanderson somehow screwing that up without having touched it.
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Aug 15, 2020 17:43
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Jordan never got the chance to edit his own stuff. Shame, nothings ever good before an edit.
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Aug 15, 2020 17:53
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Yeah, letting Jordan's crude drafts go through without an editing process isn't necessarily a good thing. Personally I strongly dislike Sanderson's young adults-style voice. Not that Jordan's writing is some high literature but I struggle to understand people who say they don't notice the difference in the Sanderson books.
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Aug 15, 2020 18:29
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Gaul without any reservations dives into the world of dreams to fight things he can't even imagine. Dude owns. Gaul going with Perrin right at the start, and asks him where they're going. Perrin tells him into the Ways and risking Machin Shin And Gaul just goes welp ok then
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Aug 15, 2020 19:35
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bloom posted:... but I struggle to understand people who say they don't notice the difference in the Sanderson books. Definitely this. Sanderson pushes the plot forward in leaps and bounds while Jordan creates atmospheres and scenes. Far more text in the Sanderson books was actual dialogue. If you don't like Dramatic irony, you will not like the WoT series, and Jordan used it extensively, while Sanders only played with a few tidbits.
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Aug 15, 2020 19:48
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DarkHorse posted:Gaul going with Perrin right at the start, and asks him where they're going. Perrin tells him into the Ways and risking Machin Shin Another thing to think of from Gaul's perspective: Perrin's not just saving his life. If he viewed wet-landers as one monolithic entity, he's betraying his comrades to help him. In the waste, that'd get you tortured to death or made Da'tsang. So he's doing more than just saving him, he's putting himself at great risk to do so.
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Aug 15, 2020 19:55
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The largest difference I notice between RJ and BS is how they write conversations. Jordan would have a character say a sentence out loud, then he would have a paragraph of the characters internal thoughts about the conversation, then another sentence out loud. Whereas with BS the conversations goes back and forth multiple times with no internal thoughts on the page. It's like you're inside the head of the pov character during a conversation written by Jordan, and you're someone witnessing a conversation between characters when BS writes it.
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Aug 15, 2020 20:15
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DarkHorse posted:Gaul going with Perrin right at the start, and asks him where they're going. Perrin tells him into the Ways and risking Machin Shin Id have to dig out TSR, but doesn't it say the man blinked but did not hesitate or something?
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Aug 15, 2020 20:46
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Id have to dig out TSR, but doesn't it say the man blinked but did not hesitate or something? Yup, typical Aiel expression of shock and alarm: blink and then go ok guess I'm gonna die now
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Aug 15, 2020 20:52
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Id have to dig out TSR, but doesn't it say the man blinked but did not hesitate or something? I found it in my post history: quote:“Come with me?” Perrin felt stunned. If he had Aiel with him. . . . There were possibilities he had not dared consider before. “Rand asked you to come with me? To the Two Rivers?”
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Aug 15, 2020 21:37
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th3t00t posted:The largest difference I notice between RJ and BS is how they write conversations. Jordan would have a character say a sentence out loud, then he would have a paragraph of the characters internal thoughts about the conversation, then another sentence out loud. Whereas with BS the conversations goes back and forth multiple times with no internal thoughts on the page. Pretty much. Minimal subterfuge.
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Aug 15, 2020 22:26
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Colonel Cool posted:I'm glad we got an ending, but I found Sanderson stuff a pretty big slog to get through. Of all the things to criticize Sanderson for vis a vis Jordan, this is the most bizarre one. The most dramatic difference between the two other than the style of prose itself is the pacing, Sanderson rips through events at a speed Jordan hadn't been able to for over a decade. Jordan wouldn't have finished the series in 3 books, it just wasn't in the cards no matter his intentions.
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Aug 16, 2020 03:21
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For the most part I actually enjoyed the Sanderson books. But I can see why people might not, Sanderson is many amazing things but solid plot and dialogue aren't on the list.
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Aug 16, 2020 03:52
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Basileus777 posted:Of all the things to criticize Sanderson for vis a vis Jordan, this is the most bizarre one. The most dramatic difference between the two other than the style of prose itself is the pacing, Sanderson rips through events at a speed Jordan hadn't been able to for over a decade. Jordan wouldn't have finished the series in 3 books, it just wasn't in the cards no matter his intentions. Oh I didn't mean in the sense that it was longer. I meant in the sense that I enjoyed it less, therefore reading it took more effort on my part. I appreciate that it got finished, and I don't fault Sanderson for it.
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Aug 16, 2020 03:58
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Vavrek posted:I found it in my post history: Anyone who reads that and doesn't laugh is dead inside.
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Aug 16, 2020 14:15
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Cavelcade posted:Anyone who reads that and doesn't laugh is dead inside. A lot of times people try to do foreign humor in a fantasy story they have the same KIND of humor but with nonsense cultural elements, This can be funny in the delivery (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt4WredSDog) but the joke itself is not a joke in the proper sense. In contrast Aiel humor did a great job of being different and missable but consistent. It was dry and subtle and blended well with the culture's acceptance of fatalism.
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Aug 16, 2020 20:08
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aiel humor is really good because it's so consistently delivered and blends well with their culture in general, which a lot of writers can't entirely pull off 100% in a way that works. like even if there's the occasional time when something they laugh at kind of draws a slight blank for me i can generally still 'get' why it's a joke for them, which is why it's effective.
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Aug 16, 2020 21:45
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The funny story about an aiel almost having to take his own mother in law or wife gaishain was frankly really funny and Egwene not seeing why was silly.
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Aug 16, 2020 22:10
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silvergoose posted:The funny story about an aiel almost having to take his own mother in law or wife gaishain was frankly really funny and Egwene not seeing why was silly. Two Rivers folks have a really dumb sense of humor, though, it's canon. I forget which book it was but there was one time the Aiel chided Rand for not having a sense of humor so he told them a godawful shaggy dog joke, unintentionally proving them right.
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Aug 17, 2020 00:15
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CainsDescendant posted:Two Rivers folks have a really dumb sense of humor, though, it's canon. I forget which book it was but there was one time the Aiel chided Rand for not having a sense of humor so he told them a godawful shaggy dog joke, unintentionally proving them right. Yeah that exchange is amazing. His joke made no sense and was bad and besides, the pool of water probably was more important.
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Aug 17, 2020 00:31
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Lord Of Chaosquote:Stopping dead, Rand rounded on them so suddenly that several reached for their veils and looked about for what had startled him. He cleared his throat. “An irascible old farmer named Hu discovered one morning that his best rooster had flown into a tall tree beside his farm pond and wouldn’t come down, so he went to his neighbor, Wil, and asked for help. The men had never gotten along, but Wil finally agreed, so the two men went to the pond and began climbing the tree, Hu first. They meant to frighten the rooster out, you see, but the bird only kept flying higher, branch by branch. Then, just as Hu and the rooster reached almost the very top of the tree, with Wil right behind, there was a loud crack, the branch under Hu’s feet broke away, and down he went into the pond, splashing water and mud everywhere. Wil scrambled down as fast as he could and reached out to Hu from the bank, but Hu just lay there on his back, sinking deeper into the mud until only his nose stuck out of the water. Another farmer had seen what happened, and he came running and pulled Hu out of the pond. ‘Why didn’t you take Wil’s hand?’ he asked Hu. ‘You could have drowned.’ ‘Why should I take his hand now?’ Hu grumped. ‘I passed him just a moment ago in broad daylight, and he never spoke a word to me.’ ” He waited expectantly. The "joke" was that Wil didn't greet Hu (who is an rear end in a top hat) as Hu fell past him, so Hu was refusing to take Wil's hand in "punishment" for the "snub".
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Aug 17, 2020 00:36
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That joke is great, just for the record.
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Aug 17, 2020 00:41
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good lord there are actual Aiel posting here. incredible
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Aug 17, 2020 01:01
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Two Rivers Wooly Sheepherders Crew vs. the Book Barn hold of the Jumai Sept of the Taardad Aiel
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Aug 17, 2020 02:10
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Bringin the slurs itt Too much use of the w-word already imo
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Aug 17, 2020 02:33
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Two Rivers Wooly Sheepherders Crew vs. the Book Barn hold of the Jumai Sept of the Taardad Aiel More like Thunder Walkers Because goons are fat
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Aug 17, 2020 02:49
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Wait, Jumai is a Shaido sept, Chumai is the Taardad sept
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Aug 17, 2020 18:22
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for your posting crimes you will be sent off into the wastes with no supplies
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Aug 17, 2020 18:28
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