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Alhazred posted:Steppenwolf looks worse in the Snyder cut though. True, he's missing the belt buckle forged in the shape of his face.
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Aug 23, 2020 14:56
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I’m all for less depressing media and things taking themselves less seriously but I’ve never really get that complaint as it pertains to Batman. There’s no non-depressing version of Batman that I’m interested in, if anything I feel like still haven’t gotten a live action Batman that fully leans into the noir aspect of a lot of the comics. Like the Burton movies had some of the aesthetic but were still tonally very campy and humorous, the Schumacher movies (especially B&R) were basically a gay European disco version of the 60s show, Nolan’s had that kind of faux-realism crime drama thing going on but were very staid and bloodless like all his movies. Begins is my favorite one of those for how it rolls with the whole Gothic aesthetic and fear hallucinations and poo poo. It’s almost funny going back and watching The Dark Knight and noticing how much work the soundtrack and Ledger’s raw performance is doing in that movie to make you think anything is actually happening on screen. Snyder’s Batman in BvS kind of felt the closest to me, but he was a guest star in a bigger dumber superhero story. The little stuff about Batfleck alluded to a movie and backstory I really wanted to see, but unfortunately we’ll probably never get. My favorite parts of that movie, aside from the warehouse fight, is that early scene where he’s like a loving horror movie monster skittering on the ceiling and branding people. Thinking about it now I actually feel like we’ve done just about every iteration of non-depressing Batman there is in live action. What I’ve always wanted and haven’t seen is just a full on noir detective story that’s bordering on a horror/thriller, I feel like that’s the tone of a lot of great Batman poo poo and I’m really excited to see it on screen (if indeed that’s what Reeves’ movie is gonna be).
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Aug 23, 2020 15:00
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That seems fair, feels like there's some room for a Batman treated as a slightly less lethal horror movie monster. Of course, with Jaws especially, we can sometimes be reminded of how much soundtrack makes a movie. ...oddly enough I remember the Jaws theme mostly from a Sesame Street parody.
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Aug 23, 2020 15:32
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Judging by the responses in seeing to the new Batman trailer on social media from women who normally don't care about him, this was very good casting.
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Aug 23, 2020 15:34
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roffels posted:True, he's missing the belt buckle forged in the shape of his face. What's even the point of being a supervillain if you don't have that.
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Aug 23, 2020 15:55
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Alhazred posted:What's even the point of being a supervillain if you don't have that. A huge belt buckle with your initials is always a viable alternative.
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Aug 23, 2020 16:03
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Jesse Eisenberg wearing a belt with Michael Cera's face on it would have made BvS perfect
RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Aug 23, 2020 |
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Aug 23, 2020 16:06
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I rewatched JL last night and the design of Steppenwolf isn't the worst part of the character. It's the fact that he looks like a plastic figurine. The visual effects are just bad. I might even agree that the theatrical version is better than Knives Steppenwolf. But if they improve the overall quality of the character that will be a very large improvement regardless of design.
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Aug 23, 2020 16:19
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LesterGroans posted:This is an odd thing I've seen several time. The Whedon version was really bad and people who like Snyder wanted his version and that's what they're getting now. There's definitely a better chance they'll like the Snyder version, but I'm not sure where you're getting the impression that if they thought it was bad they wouldn't admit it? The underlying premise is Snyder as the idiot figure holding the enjoyment of DC comic book movies hostage. When confronted with a not irrelevant number of people who explicitly want more of his DC work, there are all these attempts to disavow the enjoyment entirely. They oscillate between it being entirely false ('People who like his films are just delusional and are just trying to trick themselves/me'), to being too obscenely true ('It's because they're fascists/Objectivists/misogynists'). Either way, the notion that his films simply aren't for me cannot sufficiently manifest. Consequently, there is a perverse relishing in the idea that these true believers finally get their comeuppance in the Snyder Cut.
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Aug 23, 2020 16:35
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I don't want the Snyder Cut out of some weird loyalty to Snyder. I just want a good Justice League movie, and thought that BvS was a step in the right direction, which is admittedly a controversial opinion. I was disappointed by BvS but only because I watched the fuckin trailer. I intentionally didn't watch the trailer for a really long time until one day I went to the movies and bam there it was so I watched it. I loved it! The problem was, that trailer was basically every cool scene in order. When I finally did watch BvS I had this feeling like the whole thing got spoiled for me ahead of time, but I feel like if I had just gone in fresh I would have liked it a lot more. Meanwhile Justice League was just crap, except for the scenes that Snyder was explicitly a part of, the Amazon setpiece in the beginning and the part where they wake up Clark and fight him (both loving AWESOME scenes). I lost my poo poo when Superman gave Flash the side-eye, what a fantastic visual treat that whole scene was. So presumably, other scenes done by Snyder will be similarly good.
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Aug 23, 2020 16:41
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Saw someone in my timeline yesterday refused, apropos of nothing, to ever watch the Snyder Cut because he only cares about "jock heroes with huge muscles and women with big tits," and... yeah, superheroes tend to be jacked, but did I skip the cleavage-bouncing scenes in MoS/BvS?
Space Fish fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Aug 23, 2020 |
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Aug 23, 2020 17:53
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I don't even understand what you're asking. In what way is the Snyder Cut devoid of "jock heroes with huge muscles and women with big tits" and also why is this person on your timeline??
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Aug 23, 2020 17:55
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KVeezy3 posted:The underlying premise is Snyder as the idiot figure holding the enjoyment of DC comic book movies hostage. I mean the major thing here is that this isn't an either/or situation. Neither group is a monolith. Snyder fans have some people who just genuinely enjoy Snyder's work and want to see more of it. They also have fans who are absurdly dismissive and childish and like to deride anyone who doesn't like Snyder films or who likes Marvel movies or whatever. Especially when you have the director himself saying "I make movies for grown-ups" that kind of embodies the worst aspects of the Snyder fans. That is not all Snyder fans by any means but it is at least a loud minority and loud minorities can color a lot of opinion. Snyder haters have some people who just genuinely don't enjoy his work for a variety of reasons. There are also assholes mad that his Superman killed Zod despite that being literally a reference to the comic and who absolutely take the worst and least charitable reading of everything because they dislike what Snyder did. The latter are also extremely loud and tend to dominate discussions. The end result is that regardless of which side you are on you're much more likely to see the loud assholes than everyone else because everyone else either basically forgot Justice League existed or they're getting the Snyder Cut and are perfectly happy. This tends to color people's perceptions of the other side which is how you've devolved into "Everyone who dislikes the Snyder Cut is a literal child who hates maturity and good filmmaking" versus "Everyone who wanted the Snyder Cut is an objectivist moron who hates color and fun."
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Aug 23, 2020 17:58
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The Snyder Cut trailer has caused a number of timeline mutuals to reveal themselves as vocally against a movie that they are not interested in, when they otherwise espouse "let people like what they like" and "better to share what you enjoy than hate on stuff you don't" attitudes. As for breasts in the Snyder Cut, there are Amazons, but I wouldn't call a focus of the movie itself nor Snyder's general style "women with big tits," I think he's plenty more thoughtful than one-dimensional pinup visuals and actresses he's worked with have expressed similar sentiments.
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Aug 23, 2020 18:00
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Space Fish posted:The Snyder Cut trailer has caused a number of timeline mutuals to reveal themselves as vocally against a movie that they are not interested in, when they otherwise espouse "let people like what they like" and "better to share what you enjoy than hate on stuff you don't" attitudes. I assume any claim of the "big tits" thing comes from people who associate Snyder with Sucker Punch, which is very much a film that tries to do something and if it succeeds or fails for you personally heavily colors how you view his directing style.
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Aug 23, 2020 18:01
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ImpAtom posted:I assume any claim of the "big tits" thing comes from people who associate Snyder with Sucker Punch, which is very much a film that tries to do something and if it succeeds or fails for you personally heavily colors how you view his directing style. Man I couldn't have put it better myself. This is a really good post that I agree with 100%. My attitude towards Snyder was similarly negative due to my dislike of Sucker Punch, but he won me over through his interviews and interviews of people talking about him. At first my impression was that he was just a big dummy that likes big tits and action scenes but hearing him talk made his passion and genius very evident.
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Aug 23, 2020 18:05
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:I don't even understand what you're asking. In what way is the Snyder Cut devoid of "jock heroes with huge muscles and women with big tits" and also why is this person on your timeline?? Some folks who talk about good issues have this weird chip on their shoulder where they have to remind everyone they dislike Zack Snyder or think he's an idiot every once in a while, for years on end. Instead of just letting it go. I had to mute a few people because it was just becoming insufferable. Edit: Honestly, I think that's pretty much ever major franchise discussion. TLJ fans deal with this poo poo too. I didn't care much for that film but I don't feel the need to remind everyone, years later, of that fact.
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Aug 23, 2020 18:07
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ImpAtom posted:
Doesn't Superman always kill Zod when he shows up in movies?
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Aug 23, 2020 18:07
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Spacebump posted:Doesn't Superman always kill Zod when he shows up in movies? Ironically "Superman was just supposed to take him down, there's a deleted scene where you see Zod being put into a police car at the end but the studio decided to interfere!!" is the argument I usually hear when someone points that out. But yeah Zod's entire *thing* is being the guy so threatening Superman has literally no other choice. Being surprised that Superman kills him is like being surprised that Gwen Stacy dies.
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Aug 23, 2020 18:11
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ImpAtom posted:... This tends to color people's perceptions of the other side which is how you've devolved into "Everyone who dislikes the Snyder Cut is a literal child who hates maturity and good filmmaking" versus "Everyone who wanted the Snyder Cut is an objectivist moron who hates color and fun." That post was in response to LesterGroans, "This is an odd thing I've seen several time" post. I wrote about a specific phenomenon, not about all people who don't care for or hate his films. You know, the people salivating at the Snyder Cut finally revealing Snyder for the fraud he is. KVeezy3 fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Aug 23, 2020 |
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Aug 23, 2020 18:13
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Spacebump posted:Doesn't Superman always kill Zod when he shows up in movies? It’s weird because I’m admittedly not a big Superman expert, but I’d never thought of him as having a no killing rule. Like you’d assume he avoids it because he’s Superman, and obviously he has no need to kill your average street level bad guy who can’t even hurt him, but at a certain level of foe like what else would he do? Batman can throw the Joker in Arkham, Superman can’t just throw loving Darkseid in jail or whatever. I just sort of intuitively always felt like yeah, Superman probably would kill a guy if he had no choice. The outrage people had over the Zod thing, and by extension the collateral damage of their fight was bewildering to me. Based on how people talked about it when the movie came out, you’d think Superman took the fight to the city himself and was picking up skyscrapers full of screaming people and whipping them at Zod like javelins. What the hell was he supposed to do differently? It’s not like he could challenge Zod to 1v1 him in a desert DBZ-style, the guy’s expressed intent was to wreak destruction and torture him with his inability to protect his people. And then they addressed the fallout and horror of that collateral damage as a foundational part of the next movie, so ???
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Aug 23, 2020 18:22
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Isn’t that what the Phantom Zone is for? A place for Superman to throw his enemies who are too dangerous for a regular prison until they inevitably break out?
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Aug 23, 2020 18:26
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Spacebump posted:Doesn't Superman always kill Zod when he shows up in movies? Superman II Theatrical: Superman throws him in a chasm, we can assume he's dead. Superman II TV Cut: Arctic police escort him and the other villains away Superman II Donner Cut: Superman throws him a chasm, we can assume he's dead. Superman then turns back time, bringing them back to life.
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Aug 23, 2020 18:37
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Mandrel posted:It’s weird because I’m admittedly not a big Superman expert, but I’d never thought of him as having a no killing rule. Like you’d assume he avoids it because he’s Superman, and obviously he has no need to kill your average street level bad guy who can’t even hurt him, but at a certain level of foe like what else would he do? Batman can throw the Joker in Arkham, Superman can’t just throw loving Darkseid in jail or whatever. I just sort of intuitively always felt like yeah, Superman probably would kill a guy if he had no choice. Yeah, Superman has many Uberhitlers in his rogue gallery where it would be A-OK if he killed them. Many of those additionally fall under the same rule as the Orcs in LotR: They aren't human, therefore it's OK to let them be killed and it doesn't really affect the hero's moral standing no matter how horrifically he dismembers them.
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Aug 23, 2020 18:56
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People's general opinion of superheroes is "oh they never kill" and if they do it's for extremely good purposes (which I guess in Iron Man's case is "they were brown and pointing guns at innocent other browns", which, I guess whatever it takes for someone to sleep at night, but at the same time, whaaaaat theeee fuuuuuuck), because killing is bad! As much as comic books assumed a spot in our society when movies started being made from them and as much as they've influenced "high" art, they're still extremely, extremely niche products (and honestly, so is the art we're talking about). Anyone more than passably familiar with Superman knows that Zod stories tend to end with Superman coming to the conclusion that some dogs just can't be saved, and need to be put down. But not that many people are more than passably familiar with Superman! They know red cape, underoos, the logo, faster than a locomotive, look up in the sky, the things that leaked out into the greater culture as he became a totemic figure. Same thing with Batman and "my parents are deeeeeeead!", Robin, Batcave, one true pairing is Catwoman, etc.; even Spider-Man is "does whatever a spider can", world shits on him, "face it tiger, you hit the jackpot", thwip thwip, Doctor Octopus and the Green Goblin. So someone daring to reach into the muck a little bit and presenting these figures with specific instances from specific stories that happen to go against the popular assumed notions about the character immediately puts these same people on edge because that's not what they've internalized as the character through osmosis. Or doesn't fit the mold of how they carved the character out in their heads if they were/are comic book fans. One would think with how superhero comics have worked for decades upon decades, comic book fans would have understood that canon is whatever you make of it and there is no objective quality to the term when it comes to endless serialized tales in which no one grows old, no one really dies, and everything is to try to juice a hot month out of a line. Much like pro wrestling going from "get asses in seats" to "get PPV buys" to "pop a big TV rating", it's all chasing a dragon of success as defined by capitalism. I'm just glad we've moved past the "Superman is responsible for the destruction of Metropolis, he should have led or dragged a combat trained Kryptonian who already declared 'I want to kill every human being and will do it in front of you if I don't kill you first' into an empty field or something, because Superman always does everything right, he's my Jesus Dad" arguments (ignore he's very much more a Moses type, the movies, from Donner to Snyder, even have a "burning bush" figure in Jor-El). That it took years for those things to peter off is still astounding to me. Feels like they only got replaced by "Batman doesn't use a gun!" wailing and people trying to claim that Batman just scared that dude so much in the Dark Knight Returns panel that moment referenced that he fainted or whatever. So, you know, an even dumber argument. It makes me wonder how people would have reacted to Batman using white phosphorus in the Aronofsky/Miller Year One movie if that had ever gotten made. Y'know, once they got past Alfred being a black mechanic.
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Aug 23, 2020 18:56
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Count me as someone who prefers the Alien Knives design of Steppenwolf. He looks much more intimidating. Plus Superman and he going at it is a great shot. Also while it is obvious there's a long way to go for the special effects, I do feel like Darkseid design is a bit lackluster. On one hand I dare say it looks like a young Darkseid but maybe it's because I prefer a bit more bulkiness and physical intimidation in a God of Death. Maybe because the cartoons and comic book have that sort of look to him. EDIT: Ok, nevermind, it's hard to describe. Because he's clearly beefy but something about it is off. Perhaps it just needs finished effects. I do like the Omega Symbol on him though,. Gatts fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Aug 23, 2020 |
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Aug 23, 2020 19:01
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Gatts posted:EDIT: Ok, nevermind, it's hard to describe. Because he's clearly beefy but something about it is off. He’s not beefy. Parts of him are beefy, but others weirdly aren’t. It’s like he’s got an enormous head, shoulders, and hands, but strangely slender biceps and waist. And Steppenwolf looks like he’s the Destroyer from Thor.
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Aug 23, 2020 19:20
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Klungar posted:Isn’t that what the Phantom Zone is for? A place for Superman to throw his enemies who are too dangerous for a regular prison until they inevitably break out? Well in Man of Steel by the time zod and Kal have their final showdown all the Phantom Zone tech is gone (as far as we know) and it's not like Kal would've had the time to peruse the owner's manual of the remaining ship and figure out how to macguyver up a replacement. MoS explicitly asserts that part of his development into Supes is rejecting the baggage of Kryptonian society like hyper-eugenics or shoving problems into a hole and pretending they don't exist. The way it happens is clunky - Zod doesn't seem particularly worn down by the end, not enough for Clark to just ragdoll him with a little extra effort at least - but the act itself always seemed fine to me.
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Aug 23, 2020 19:31
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I wonder if they'll change the final encounter between Steppenwolf and the Justice League. Superman seemed to have absolutely no problem defeating Steppenwolf, to such an extent that I'm not even sure why they needed a Justice League at all. I also think the movie suffers because, character-wise, Steppenwolf seemed like a great big nothing. His characterization is extremely weak, and I have a hard time describing him or his motivation at all. Villains ought to be interesting, sympathetic, or scary, and he was none of those things. Perhaps the added content can give him a bit more backstory or motivation. I'm sure I'll watch the new cut at some point. Hopefully it's an improvement.
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Aug 23, 2020 19:33
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DorianGravy posted:I wonder if they'll change the final encounter between Steppenwolf and the Justice League. Superman seemed to have absolutely no problem defeating Steppenwolf, to such an extent that I'm not even sure why they needed a Justice League at all. Supposedly in the original cut it is Wonder Woman who defeats Steppenwulf.
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Aug 23, 2020 19:42
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Anyone filmmaker who didn't use Kirby's design is a coward. Where's my giant dog calvary?
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Aug 23, 2020 19:44
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DorianGravy posted:I also think the movie suffers because, character-wise, Steppenwolf seemed like a great big nothing. His characterization is extremely weak, and I have a hard time describing him or his motivation at all. Villains ought to be interesting, sympathetic, or scary, and he was none of those things. Perhaps the added content can give him a bit more backstory or motivation. I remember Ciaran Hinds being annoyed by the Whedon cut because of what it did to his character, so hopefully this version will flesh him out a bit more.
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Aug 23, 2020 19:46
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DorianGravy posted:Superman seemed to have absolutely no problem defeating Steppenwolf, to such an extent that I'm not even sure why they needed a Justice League at all.
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Aug 23, 2020 19:49
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ImpAtom posted:Supposedly in the original cut it is Wonder Woman who defeats Steppenwulf.
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Aug 23, 2020 19:50
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I can't figure out how they are going to make the Snyder Cut fill out 4 hours. Say 1 hour and 30 minutes are what we got in the film. (with shots by Snyder instead of his reshot/worse shots ) Maybe an hour goes to Cyborg and Flash scenes (with Cyborg getting more time than the Flash.) What fills out the extra hour and 30 minutes?
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Aug 23, 2020 20:02
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Spacebump posted:I can't figure out how they are going to make the Snyder Cut fill out 4 hours. Psyche, they are not going to replace Whedon's shots, they just add Snyder's with a brief title card before each new scene.
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Aug 23, 2020 20:04
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Could be a ton of things. World building, fleshing out characters, story, backstory, DCU history, all kinds of stuff that can fill 4 hours. Probably a lot of other footage as well.
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Aug 23, 2020 20:04
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Spacebump posted:I can't figure out how they are going to make the Snyder Cut fill out 4 hours. Sweet sweet content.
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Aug 23, 2020 20:50
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The Cameo posted:I'm just glad we've moved past the "Superman is responsible for the destruction of Metropolis, he should have led or dragged a combat trained Kryptonian who already declared 'I want to kill every human being and will do it in front of you if I don't kill you first' into an empty field or something, because Superman always does everything right, he's my Jesus Dad" arguments (ignore he's very much more a Moses type, the movies, from Donner to Snyder, even have a "burning bush" figure in Jor-El). That it took years for those things to peter off is still astounding to me. Feels like they only got replaced by "Batman doesn't use a gun!" wailing and people trying to claim that Batman just scared that dude so much in the Dark Knight Returns panel that moment referenced that he fainted or whatever. So, you know, an even dumber argument. I was thinking about this while watching the Burton ones again last night for the first time in a while. Obviously it was a long time ago and the need echo chamber didn’t quite exist yet, and I do remember people being outraged at the Keaton casting, but I don’t remember people being mad about all the dudes Burton’s Batman kills in cold blood. Like, honestly in ways much worse and more deliberate than Snyder’s Batman to me. It’s been a minute, but iirc Batfleck’s Batmobile uses guns in that one chase primarily to clear a path with no regard for the likely collateral damage, and he lets those dudes blow up to save Martha. In the 89 movie not only does he straight up pop miniguns out of the batwing which he then uses to open fire directly on Joker’s parade float surrounded by gothamites, but he remote drives the Batmobile into that factory full of Joker’s men, comically drops a huge explosive at their feet (WITH A COMEDIC BEAT), and then watches as the entire place is incinerated, presumably killing everyone inside. There’s also that moment in the factory where he just vanishes with a weird grin for some reason allowing Joker to shoot Lieutenant Not-Bullock dead, only to reappear and continue beating him. In Returns I vaguely remember Batman grinning before shoving that dude with a bomb down a manhole and nonchalantly walking away from the subsequent explosion, which was very cool but feels like dorks would pitch a fit if Snyder’s Batman had done that. Maybe I’m wrong and nerds did care about this stuff at the time and I just didn’t know any of them. Side note: I love Michael Keaton and acting wise thought he was fine but that casting choice still makes those movies hilarious to me. He’s such a unassuming skinny little nerd who Burton somehow managed to make look even smaller and less imposing than he already is even when he’s in costume. He’s looking up at Kim Basinger in some shots. Nicholson’s Joker looks like he has about 50 lbs on him. That opening scene in 89 when he just appears and stands there like a dork with his cape in the air, gets shot and crumples over, then stands up and just sticks his cape in the air again while these two thugs probably each twice his size scream in terror is so loving funny
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Aug 23, 2020 21:06
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Mandrel posted:Side note: I love Michael Keaton and acting wise thought he was fine but that casting choice still makes those movies hilarious to me. He’s such a unassuming skinny little nerd who Burton somehow managed to make look even smaller and less imposing than he already is even when he’s in costume. He’s looking up at Kim Basinger in some shots. Nicholson’s Joker looks like he has about 50 lbs on him. That opening scene in 89 when he just appears and stands there like a dork with his cape in the air, gets shot and crumples over, then stands up and just sticks his cape in the air again while these two thugs probably each twice his size scream in terror is so loving funny
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Aug 23, 2020 21:12
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