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My current game on Prince I had a camp near my capital that I sent a guy to clear. When my guy got there it was spawning a horseman every other turn for like five turns. Had a coastal camp spawn like five privateers in 10 turns.
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Aug 25, 2020 20:15
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Dick Trauma posted:Sometimes the scouts get through, but even so that shouldn't unleash an unbeatable rush of barbarians. Christ this is tedious. I find getting overrun by Barbs pretty tedious as well. On Deity I typically reroll into a start location by an ocean so that I have less area that enemies can come from, or a location with good mountain coverage. I'd also always get a slinger ahead of a scout.
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Aug 25, 2020 20:32
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PaybackJack posted:I find getting overrun by Barbs pretty tedious as well. On Deity I typically reroll into a start location by an ocean so that I have less area that enemies can come from, or a location with good mountain coverage. I'd also always get a slinger ahead of a scout. I've been having good luck making GBS threads out a couple of scouts right off the bat and use them to intercept and divert barbarian scouts before they see my city and go aggro
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Aug 25, 2020 20:46
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Both those strategies seem like a good idea but goddamn I am frustrated right now and going to play some RDR2 and shoot things.
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Aug 25, 2020 20:52
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I've been trying to work on a domination/religion strategy with Jadwiga where I take advantage of her encampment culture bomb ability. I make sure to get a religion with the crusader belief and maybe the God of Healing pantheon. I build encampments on the border with the AI, instantly convert their city with the culture bomb, then blitz them with the +10 from crusade and fire support from the encampment. I just keep pushing forward with that until I've either conquered or converted everyone. It helps avoid the common domination problem of randomly losing to a religious victory toward the very end. It's a difficult start though, especially on higher difficulties where there's a lot of Great Prophet competition, and you end up diverting a lot of hammers that ideally would have gone into science generation.
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Aug 25, 2020 21:14
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You basically need to leave a unit in your city on deity on guard duty. There’s too high a risk of a spawning camp which gives you 2 turns notice at most to stand on your border to deflect any barb scouts. Standing units outside your borders to fog break is also useful if you have enough. Barb camps fall (and respawn) thick and fast in the early game so you gotta be proactive.
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Aug 25, 2020 21:17
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Back when I played I used the NYAEMP (?) mod which was mostly good because you could use it to set what turn barbarians could spawn. I found 20 turns into the game was a decent time.
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Aug 25, 2020 22:52
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Not only have I been getting swamped by barbs, I've been noticing the AI getting completely overwhelmed by then as well. Since the update, whenever I conquer a neighbor's capital or whatever, I am nine times out of ten fighting both the rival civs and the barbs, who don't seem to go after one another. Then when I get the city and the war ends, I'll find some dogshit little peninsula eight tiles away making GBS threads out technologically advanced barbarians. The AI just doesn't seem to go after them, and if there's a human unit they'll both go after it. They also seem not to know what to build in response to what, which has allowed me to do things like roll Frederich over with just a few War Carts because he kept building only catapults in response.  And re: the AI building tons of one specific unit, in my most recent game, my neighbor Dido built probably 40 cultists in the main 6 city body of her empire. Never saw her use a single one.
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Aug 25, 2020 23:46
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I'm going to use this space to plug the "Always build 3 slingers as your opening build" ideology. I don't trust my luck getting goodie huts at higher difficulties, and so might as well farm the barbs for xp.
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Aug 25, 2020 23:59
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I exclusively queue a scout or two on Deity. Not getting good huts and free envoys, and inturn denying them to the AI, slows you down.
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Aug 26, 2020 00:13
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as long as you're pumping out units of some sort for the first dozen turns you're probably fine, your scouts shouldn't be too far from home in the early turns as you kinda circle around your origin and can come back to body block fairly quickly
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Aug 26, 2020 00:19
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Rimusutera posted:I exclusively queue a scout or two on Deity. Not getting good huts and free envoys, and inturn denying them to the AI, slows you down. That's what slingers are for. Unless you're Colombia that is.
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Aug 26, 2020 02:25
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Slingers are only gonna move one tile a turn over rough terrain.
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Aug 26, 2020 02:50
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gently caress YOU KUPE BUILD A PĀ SO I CAN ROCK YOUR FACE OFF
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Aug 26, 2020 03:18
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Rimusutera posted:Slingers are only gonna move one tile a turn over rough terrain. As do scouts, unless you're Colombia. See the problem? (I've had this rant before. It's that scouts are terrible at their one job, while slingers cost literally the same while also being the best combat unit buildable)
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Aug 26, 2020 03:53
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  Edit: And yes, I did save it out at turn 1 before I moved or settled
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Aug 26, 2020 05:29
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Serephina posted:As do scouts, unless you're Colombia. See the problem? (I've had this rant before. It's that scouts are terrible at their one job, while slingers cost literally the same while also being the best combat unit buildable) Huh. Scouts can move over at least one forest or hills tiles without moving up all their movement, slingers and warriors cant do this, and this can be improved with their promotions. You definitely loose out on ground covered and thus turns. The Glumslinger posted:
That start is stupid good in general. Hopefully there's more good Terrace farm spots for your 2nd and 3rd settles.
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Aug 26, 2020 05:48
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I'm having a lot of trouble getting culture victories on immortal+ difficulties. Every time I've tried I've had to purposely not go for a science victory and end up winning a diplomatic one before I get even close. I basically turn my whole coast into seaside resorts and put ski resorts on every mountain I can and toss up a few national parks, but I can never seem to make my tourism grow fast enough. I am a little confused on rock bands too. I spam them towards the civ with the highest internal tourism, but they never seem to put a dent in it at all. I think one area I am screwing up is having everyone pissed at me so I can't get open borders, but it seems like I always have to put a stop to someone else getting another victory type. Does anyone have any tips for this?
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Aug 26, 2020 08:31
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I just picked this up again for the first time in forever. Started a new quick game and I'm completely landlocked for the first half. This of course means Harold is denouncing me for having a weak navy every few turns.  And I just met Philip. He offers a trade deal where he gives me gold and open borders for my gypsum. I decide to get more and offer him open borders. He instantly can't accept it. Like what? I didn't ask for more from you yet, I merely offered you more! Is this a bug or a feature? Anyway, I still enjoy it. Probably should get some expansions already. E: lmao, I decide to rejigger the deal and ask him to make it equitable. It changes to him wanting gypsum, gold per turn and one time gold in exchange for the open borders he initially offered me for just my gypsum along with gold. I'd love to see the negotiations code for this cause drat this is like someone at the negotiating table from a kids movie where the joke is that they don't understand the word. jojoinnit fucked around with this message at 11:19 on Aug 26, 2020 |
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Aug 26, 2020 11:13
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Zyklon B Zombie posted:I'm having a lot of trouble getting culture victories on immortal+ difficulties. Every time I've tried I've had to purposely not go for a science victory and end up winning a diplomatic one before I get even close. I basically turn my whole coast into seaside resorts and put ski resorts on every mountain I can and toss up a few national parks, but I can never seem to make my tourism grow fast enough. I am a little confused on rock bands too. I spam them towards the civ with the highest internal tourism, but they never seem to put a dent in it at all. I think one area I am screwing up is having everyone pissed at me so I can't get open borders, but it seems like I always have to put a stop to someone else getting another victory type. Does anyone have any tips for this? What civ are you playing? Have you gotten culture victories on lower difficulties and you're having trouble optimizing, or is this a win condition you generally struggle with?
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Aug 26, 2020 12:02
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Eiffel Tower and Christo Redentor are mandatory builds for culture victory. You maybe want to delay making rock bands until you get the choose a promotion policy card so you can Goes to 11 them all then send them at the areas where 3 plus civs border each other. Buy other civs great works if you have the spare cash and space in your cities (which should have a holy site and theatre square each)
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Aug 26, 2020 12:16
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Shooting Blanks posted:What civ are you playing? Have you gotten culture victories on lower difficulties and you're having trouble optimizing, or is this a win condition you generally struggle with? I cycle through civs and any time there is one with a culture bonus I try to go for it. I've gotten a couple culture wins on immortal, but those might as well been domination wins. I think I am struggling on the proper techs and culture to prioritize and get started on my tourism too late. Most of my early and midgame seem to be me frantically trying to keep up with science so I don't fall eras behind the AI and get steamrolled in any military engagement.
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Aug 26, 2020 12:25
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jojoinnit posted:I just picked this up again for the first time in forever. Started a new quick game and I'm completely landlocked for the first half. This of course means Harold is denouncing me for having a weak navy every few turns. Open borders with someone means that your culture affects them more, so it’s not actually a straight benefit like it is in other civs.
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Aug 26, 2020 13:01
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skeleton warrior posted:Open borders with someone means that your culture affects them more, so it’s not actually a straight benefit like it is in other civs. Oh thanks. I always assumed it was just literal "can units go here or not" and that's it.
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Aug 26, 2020 13:05
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Zyklon B Zombie posted:I cycle through civs and any time there is one with a culture bonus I try to go for it. I've gotten a couple culture wins on immortal, but those might as well been domination wins. I think I am struggling on the proper techs and culture to prioritize and get started on my tourism too late. Most of my early and midgame seem to be me frantically trying to keep up with science so I don't fall eras behind the AI and get steamrolled in any military engagement. Culture is, in my opinion, the most flexible victory type but also probably the most difficult because it requires a decent amount of optimization, early planning, and a lot of micro. General strategy for tourism (remember - tourism and culture are separate) is that it never really starts until the mid game. In the early game, focus on expansion and building out your economy to set yourself up for success. Unlike other victory types, planning out your cities is much more important in my opinion. Figure out your adjacency bonuses in advance, try to get at least 1 good city for each of the major districts (campus, holy site, theater square and a central industrial zone or two) early on with good adjacency to start building up your infrastructure. Similarly, plan your National Parks early - remember you can't place them on a district or remove the district, but you can always use mountain tiles for these. Use. Pins. Good diplo relations are hugely important. The turn you meet a new civ, send them a delegation, and try to trade with them immediately. Set up friendships and alliances as quickly as possible. The goal is to keep everyone happy with you, this allows you to focus on building out infrastructure and settling more cities as opposed to building a massive army. You'll still need an army but keep it defensive (in fact you want civs to live, if an AI civ is going for domination and wiping out other AIs, you will have a very uphill battle). Walls are very useful, both for defense but also providing tourism in the late game, it's absolutely worth building those all the way. One thing to keep in mind is that you don't start generating tourism with a given civ until you meet them. Aggressively explore until you find them all. Wonders are almost universally useful since they all provide tourism, however it's important to pick and choose carefully so as to not waste production. Oracle and Apadana are generally the only early wonders I would even think of going for, everything else has too much competition. Other wonders besides the aforementioned Eiffel Tower and Cristo Redentor would include Oxford, Hermitage, Mausoleum and Petra (for production bonuses in those cities). Sydney Opera House and Broadway are kinda meh - too expensive for what they are unless you're swimming in great engineers or just have production to burn. Any wonders that provide a policy card slot are also incredibly useful - Forbidden City, Big Ben, Potala Palace. There are also a bunch that are situational like Chichen Itza if you have a city with a lot of rainforest - later on, you'll get a tourism boost to tiles that gain culture. Techs to beeline are mostly late game, primarily Flight and Computers. Civics mostly unlock various wonders and cards so you can see for yourself when you look at the tree, but the important ones for for direct bonuses are The Enlightment and Environmentalism. There's one that adds tourism for walls but I forget. Pay attention to your policy cards more than usual - in a science or domination victory you can almost autopilot those things, with tourism you really need to focus on what you're doing right now. Plug in production card for walls if you have a bunch of cities building those, or wonders if you're building those. Similarly, your government bonuses are going to be incredibly important. Generally speaking I'll go with: Tier one - Autocracy (if going for a bunch of early wonders) or Classical Republic (if going for early great people). Classical republic probably has the better policy card slots. Tier two - Merchant Republic - helps build additional districts and the gold bonuses are nice. Also the most useful card slots Tier three - Democracy or Communism Future - Digital Democracy or Synthetic Technocracy, if you make it here Once you start generating tourism, a lot of it comes down to optimization - far more than other victory conditions require. Make sure your museums are themed (and make sure you know how to do this!), make sure you're getting the tourism benefits from having open borders and trade routes with every civ, set up those seaside and ski resorts and national parks early. That's all passive tourism and will win in the long run. Go To 11 with Rock Bands is basically your final push to get past the last 1 or 2 civs that you either couldn't meet early on, or that have also built a huge culture game. There are a couple specific strategies you can use if you get reasonably lucky. By no means necessary, but can be helpful: Strategy 1 (cannot be done with Kongo) - get an early religion via faith from a religious CS or a tribal village relic, take Reliquaries as your Follower (I think) belief. From here, you really need to beeline to get a good production city somewhere that you can build both Mt. St. Michel and St. Basil's Cathedral in. Mt. St. Michel gives all your apostles a belief that will grant you a relic when they die, St. Basil's gives relic slots and boosts religious tourism in that city. Prioritize building cities with temples (relic slots), save your faith for apostles and go get them murdered. Strategy 2 - Build up a decent amount of great scientist points, build archaeological museums not art museums (beeline the Natural History civic) and pay attention to great people - you really need Mary Leakey for this to work, but she'll triple tourism on all artifacts. Then go get whatever civic allows you to pillage shipwrecks. Sorry for the infodump, I just did a tourism victory with Sweden the other day so I figure I'd share while it was relatively fresh.
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Aug 26, 2020 13:43
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Don't sleep on Kilwa Kisiwani for a culture victory either. Being suzerain of two culture city-states will net you +30% culture in the city you build it and +15% in every other city in your empire. (And since you should be stacking envoys plowing through the civics tree anyway, you should be able to get the same bonus for at least a couple other yields like faith and science too.)
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Aug 26, 2020 14:52
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This vid by PotatoMcWhisky summarizes the math and stuff behind NatParks and Rock Bands which helps contextualize the best advice I can give you; you generally want to maximize your available appeal to spam National Parks from early as possible to get as much out of them you can, and then shift to throwing rockbands at players with lots of culture still. The Policy card that lets you pick their promotions is *really* good but you don't necessarily need to wait for it. I love reliquaries strats but they make you need Cristo Redentor even more than usual (its not a hard necessity normally, neither is Eiffle Tower, but they're both strong) The other big thing is any spam-able improvement that starts generating tourism from Flight onward is usually pretty good, so take note of depending on what Civ you're playing, and if you roll a map with a good city state with that provides you with one of those, like La Venta, will help. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qMoxnhvWD8 Rimusutera fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Aug 26, 2020 |
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Aug 26, 2020 15:11
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For resorts and natural parks don't be afraid to throw down tile improvements (but NOT districts) early and then rip them all up again lategame to replace with seaside/parks once you've got the appeal boosters online. Planting woods to nudge a tile from charming to breathtaking is also an option to explore.
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Aug 26, 2020 15:23
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Blasmeister posted:For resorts and natural parks don't be afraid to throw down tile improvements (but NOT districts) early and then rip them all up again lategame to replace with seaside/parks once you've got the appeal boosters online. Planting woods to nudge a tile from charming to breathtaking is also an option to explore. Holy hell I play this game so wrong. Thanks for telling me you can do that!
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Aug 26, 2020 15:30
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Also creating alliances with people allow you to generate grievances with them that decay while you're still in the alliance
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Aug 26, 2020 15:33
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Zyklon B Zombie posted:I think one area I am screwing up is having everyone pissed at me so I can't get open borders, but it seems like I always have to put a stop to someone else getting another victory type. Does anyone have any tips for this? More often than not I finish the game with everyone or almost everyone allied with me. I've found that possibly the most important factor is just heavy early investment in friendliness. The second you meet someone, send a delegation if you can afford it; the first time they're friendly, become friends with them; the first time you can ally with them, do. If you do this for everyone possible, then you can go on to strategically wage war against your non-allies without pissing everyone else off.
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Aug 26, 2020 16:01
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Yeah friendships and allying all boost relationships by existing so getting that first smiley face can get you locked into an alliance for the rest of time. once you’re allied it’s basically impossible to cause enough grievances or go against enough agendas to have them not want to keep allying for the rest of the game. Delegation on turn 0, open borders too ideally, and a trade route to every possible civ you can reach should be your early game priorities and then ally as soon as it gets unlocked, doesn’t really matter which type
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Aug 26, 2020 16:52
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Is there a scenario where it's worth a cultural alliance when you're going for a culture win though? I guess maybe a civ that's not a threat?
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Aug 26, 2020 17:11
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Chad Sexington posted:Is there a scenario where it's worth a cultural alliance when you're going for a culture win though? I guess maybe a civ that's not a threat? I think cultural alliances only stop loyalty pressure not tourism so unless they're likely to stupidly invade steal a city state in your borders or other dumb AI settlement bullshit there's not any risk. Unless you're referring to the bonus 10% culture for a lv 3 alliance and yeah i guess at that point make sure the culture alliance that is giving that bonus is with the civ that's not your major competitor for culture (and you get 20% of their tourism as compensation so might still work out favourable to you I dunno how the maths works out there) but that's super lategame. Def not enough reason to restrict yourself to only 4 allies. Blasmeister fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Aug 26, 2020 |
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Aug 26, 2020 17:24
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I just want to say the reliquary strat can be risky, because if a civ follows a different religion than you they have a 50% penalty towards tourism. This REALLY drags out a victory, speaking from experience.
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Aug 26, 2020 18:40
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Eimi posted:I just want to say the reliquary strat can be risky, because if a civ follows a different religion than you they have a 50% penalty towards tourism. This REALLY drags out a victory, speaking from experience. Cristo Redentor fixes this, so that becomes an even more necessary wonder if you are relying on religious tourism.
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Aug 26, 2020 18:46
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Madmarker posted:Cristo Redentor fixes this, so that becomes an even more necessary wonder if you are relying on religious tourism. I thought it just meant religious tourism from relics and such was not decreased, not removing the penalty to having different religion. quote:Tourism output from Relics and Holy Cities is not diminished by other civilizations who have researched The Enlightenment civic. Unless I'm just reading this wrong like statue of liberty.
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Aug 26, 2020 18:49
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Eimi posted:I thought it just meant religious tourism from relics and such was not decreased, not removing the penalty to having different religion. Oh you're right, my bad, still makes Cristo Redentor super important.
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Aug 26, 2020 18:51
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Redentor stops religious tourism Enlightenment being halved by Civs having Enlightenment doesn't it?
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Aug 26, 2020 18:55
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Rimusutera posted:Redentor stops religious tourism from Enlightenment being halved doesn't it? Yessir
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Aug 26, 2020 18:55
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