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Calaveron posted:So the text of this pigshit ending is that Bran absolutely died and has been possessed by whatshisface Max Von Rivers right? Yes. Bran the child was destroyed and the wizard took over his body. It's implied that the creepy wizard had played the longest game for the game of thrones. When asked if Bran wants the crown he simply replies "“Why do you think I came all this way..?" and smiles. It's the loving wizard saying it
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Sep 6, 2020 21:41
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Collapsing Farts posted:Yes. Bran the child was destroyed and the wizard took over his body. It's implied that the creepy wizard had played the longest game for the game of thrones. When asked if Bran wants the crown he simply replies "“Why do you think I came all this way..?" and smiles. This is nonsense, this would require the show creators to be capable of subtlety and nuance. This didn't actually happen in the show, Bran just got all knowing wizard powers and became basically emotionless. He's still Bran though.
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Sep 6, 2020 21:45
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Collapsing Farts posted:Yes. Bran the child was destroyed and the wizard took over his body. It's implied that the creepy wizard had played the longest game for the game of thrones. When asked if Bran wants the crown he simply replies "“Why do you think I came all this way..?" and smiles. In the show the entire characterization of Bran becoming the 3ER is just "turn the autism slider to 11". The Game of Thrones wiki even says that the 3ER that Van Sydow played is some "unnamed person", so we can't even assume he's Bloodraven because they couldn't even bother to do him up with a silver wig and some face prosthetics. In the books it is clearly "physically crippled and emotionally vulnerable child with psychic powers gets coerced into becoming the most recent physical host for an eldritch astral amalgamation of other psychics that has been passed down like a virus since time out of memory so that it can continue to manipulate events in it's own favor and/or uphold some ancient pact between other godlike forces". Mat Cauthon fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Sep 7, 2020 |
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Sep 6, 2020 22:04
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I think the point of fAegon in the books is that he's a perfect foil for Dany; he's literally a fake version of her. There's a speech from Varys in the epilogue of ADWD where he spells out why fAegon is, in his opinion, the perfect king:quote:Aegon has been shaped for rule before he could walk. He has been trained in arms, as befits a knight to be, but that was not the end of his education. He reads and writes, he speaks several tongues, he has studied history and law and poetry. A septa has instructed him in the mysteries of the Faith since he was old enough to understand them. He has lived with fisherfolk, worked with his hands, swum in rivers and mended nets and learned to wash his own clothes at need. He can fish and cook and bind up a wound, he knows what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid. Tommen has been taught that kingship is his right. Aegon knows kingship is his duty, that a king must put his people first, and live and rule for them. The thing is nearly every single one of these things applies to Daenerys as well: - Dany is literate and speaks three languages (Common, Dothraki, and High Valyrian). - Dany knows hunger; she and Viserys were at times reduced to begging for food on the streets. - Dany knows what it is to be hunted; she spent her entire childhood running from the knives of the Usurper. - Dany knows what it is to fear; until she fell in love with Drogo she'd literally been afraid her entire life. - Dany knows kingship is a duty; she specifically takes the rule of Meereen to protect the liberty of the slaves she has freed, not because she actually wants to. The only things fAegon has on her are this: - He knows how to fight. - He's been educated in the faith. - He knows how to... fish and make nets and cook? But more to the point everything fAegon has experienced is fake. Has he ever really known hunger, being hunted, or being afraid? Or were his experiences... 'simulated'? For example, was he told "there are people coming to kill you", and ever actually had people coming to kill him? I mean, ACTUALLY kill him? Or were they just Varys and Illyrio's cohorts pretending to be assassins? Because as far as we know Dany has experienced every struggle in her life, and done it for real. fAegon has pretty much been put through a Daenerys Targaryen Simulator. I think that's going to be the big tragedy in the books, that Westeros fears the stories of the Mad King's Daughter that are coming out from Essos without actually learning any of the details (because Team fAegon is just going to tell them "oh hey dude yeah she totally did all these terrible things" and completely not mention any of the context of why she did it, OR that she learned from her mistakes and doesn't do it anymore.) So they rush to embrace the comforting familiar veneer of the shiny-but-gilded "Son of Rhaegar" (who is fake) and run away from the rough-around-the-edges-but-heart-of-gold "Mad King's Daughter." And since in the books it's been hinted that there's a Big Reveal coming about Daenerys (Lemongate and the thousand theories it has spawned) I would absolutely die of delighted irony overdose if the big twist for Team fAegon (who all are completely devoted to Rhaegar) is that they, in their last moments, realize that fAegon not only is fake, but that by blinding themselves to that truth they have inadvertantly completely hosed over Daenerys, who is actually Rhaegar's daughter.
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Sep 6, 2020 22:08
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When is the Civil War show coming out???
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Sep 6, 2020 23:40
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I agree with most of your post but one minute nitpick is I actually don't think anyone was coming for Dany either. I mean, up until Robert actually sends someone when she gets pregnant. I think that was a lie from Varys/Ilyrio. At least if there were assassins, Robert certainly seems not to have been aware of them. We actually see him lamenting the fact that he let Jon Arryn talk him out of sending them before.
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Sep 7, 2020 00:20
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Sky Shadowing posted:
No that would be weird and unnecessary, there's already a direct descendent of Rhaegar running around to cause problems for the Aegon supporters and Daenerys.
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Sep 7, 2020 00:45
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The punchline would’ve been that after taking down the fake Aegon through a ton of effort, personal sacrifice, and probably from losing a lot of her court and supporters, Daenerys at the end would’ve discovered that Jon was the actual legitimate heir to the throne and the final ding would’ve been donged
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Sep 7, 2020 00:57
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the part with hardhome was so cool you guys, i can't wait to see what it's like when the walkers get past the wall.
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Sep 7, 2020 01:00
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Alchenar posted:No that would be weird and unnecessary, there's already a direct descendent of Rhaegar running around to cause problems for the Aegon supporters and Daenerys. Not entirely unnecessary. I've recently become taken with the idea that Book Euron (who unlike his show self is An Actual loving Nightmare) is, perhaps with helpers, manipulating things to bring forth the Long Night. And according to Yi Ti scholars in TWOIAF, the Long Night was caused by an event called the Blood Betrayal, when the Bloodstone Emperor murdered his ruling sister, the Amethyst Empress. It's also theorized that this event is the same thing as Azor Ahai killing Nissa Nissa, who was his lover. I.e., if those are combined, brother murders his lover-sister, the Queen. So if that's true, if Rhaegar is Dany AND Jon's dad... if I'm right, and the books have the War for the Iron Throne happen before the Long Night... I think Jon killing Dany is the event that causes the Long Night.
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Sep 7, 2020 01:11
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COMPAGNIE TOMMY posted:When is the Civil War show coming out??? It's on now, they just decided to turn it into a reality/documentary style show. Check your local Fox News for more information 
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Sep 7, 2020 02:17
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Groovelord Neato posted:I could understand at the time because you got so much poo poo going on but then they also cut out the Manderly plot so nothing happens for a season and a half AND George had to have given them the outline of the ending before they decided to cut "Aegon" so none of it makes any sense in that light. That motivation doesn't really make sense considering they made the plot more complex by adding stuff like Littlefinger and Varys' rivalry.
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Sep 7, 2020 18:16
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Boofy posted:the part with hardhome was so cool you guys, i can't wait to see what it's like when the walkers get past the wall. hardhome was so good! what a sequence
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Sep 7, 2020 18:27
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Pattonesque posted:hardhome was so good! what a sequence too bad all the zombies were invincible because no one had dragonglass weapons yet
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Sep 7, 2020 18:51
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Piell posted:This is nonsense, this would require the show creators to be capable of subtlety and nuance. This didn't actually happen in the show, Bran just got all knowing wizard powers and became basically emotionless. He's still Bran though. Nah that's the text of the show regardless of what the writers deliberately intended. Westeros is ruled by an inscrutable eldrich god now who may or may not be human. the fact that this is uncommented on doesn't mean it's not what literally happened.
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Sep 7, 2020 19:12
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massive spider posted:Nah that's the text of the show regardless of what the writers deliberately intended. Westeros is ruled by an inscrutable eldrich god now who may or may not be human. the fact that this is uncommented on doesn't mean it's not what literally happened. It does though, Bran literally is not taken over by Bloodraven. That doesn't happen. Bran is Bran but with (more) magic powers. Piell fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Sep 7, 2020 |
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Sep 7, 2020 20:23
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It's weird how Bran is one of the most magical characters in the show but it never ends up mattering that much to the plot. His biggest impact is finding out Jon isn't a bastard, except there are a handful of reasons why that doesn't matter anyway. You could have had him not give the dagger to Arya and he would have been an okay second choice behind Jon for killing the Night King.
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Sep 7, 2020 21:51
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And we never get a loving answer as to what the hell he was doing during the battle of Winterfell. God, what a lovely show.
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Sep 7, 2020 22:05
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TOOT BOOT posted:You could have had him not give the dagger to Arya and he would have been an okay second choice behind Jon for killing the Night King. This would've been a better way to do it. Bonus points for the fact that it could've tied in to the NK "marking" Bran back in season...5? 6? I honestly can't remember.
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Sep 7, 2020 23:11
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TOOT BOOT posted:It's weird how Bran is one of the most magical characters in the show but it never ends up mattering that much to the plot. His biggest impact is finding out Jon isn't a bastard, except there are a handful of reasons why that doesn't matter anyway. They teased Jon being the real King forever and the only thing that changed when he found out is he stopped loving his Aunt.
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Sep 7, 2020 23:17
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So if the night king is the only load bearing boss - what was the deal with Craster's incest sons being frozen magic'd? I guess they were dead and being kept alive by his magic too?
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Sep 8, 2020 08:52
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those babies are dead now, yes. thanks to arya
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Sep 8, 2020 10:08
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Piell posted:It does though, Bran literally is not taken over by Bloodraven. That doesn't happen. Bran is Bran but with (more) magic powers. We don’t know how human he is at this point. he aligned with a mysterious god of unclear intentions, suddenly lost all his empathetic qualities and admits that he knew thousands were going to die horribly in fire but didn’t mention it because he also knew all this bullshit was going to make him king. That is sus as gently caress. Yes this is probably due to bad writing and being an awkward mix of GRRMs unfinished subtext vs the show runners incompetence than deliberate intention on the show runners part. But that doesent change what’s presented. Game of thrones ends with an inscrutable elder god on the throne. massive spider fucked around with this message at 11:31 on Sep 8, 2020 |
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Sep 8, 2020 11:23
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massive spider posted:We don’t know how human he is at this point. he aligned with a mysterious god of unclear intentions, suddenly lost all his empathetic qualities and admits that he knew thousands were going to die horribly in fire but didn’t mention it because he also knew all this bullshit was going to make him king. That is sus as gently caress. Sure, and that inscrutable elder god is Bran
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Sep 8, 2020 12:33
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Hey, at least D&D brought us the stellar Grey Worm / Missandei plot. (I mean, it can just as well have been something envisiond by GRRM but it was so...flat to me. And that is not because of the actors.)
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Sep 8, 2020 12:43
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Piell posted:Sure, and that inscrutable elder god is Bran He is wearing Bran as a mask The elder god wanted power and so took the throne. Bran the cripple would never desire to be the ruler of some kingdom.
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Sep 8, 2020 12:50
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Collapsing Farts posted:He is wearing Bran as a mask Bran doesn't particularly want to, but he knows he can do it and everyone else wants him to. Bran is Bran.
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Sep 8, 2020 12:58
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Piell posted:Bran doesn't particularly want to, but he knows he can do it and everyone else wants him to. What did Bran say or do on screen that led you to this conclusion? Because from what I remember Bran(?) stated he knowingly let fantasy 9/11 happen to ascend to the throne.
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Sep 8, 2020 13:17
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massive spider posted:What did Bran say or do on screen that led you to this conclusion? Because Bran is doing a "hard man making hard decisions" pure utilitarian thing. People dying now makes things better later, which he knows because of his magic powers. Bran gained the powers, but he wasn't taken over, he's still Bran. Piell fucked around with this message at 14:18 on Sep 8, 2020 |
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Sep 8, 2020 13:44
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I’m confused. So the cops knew Internal Affairs was setting them up?
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Sep 8, 2020 14:00
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I honestly wonder in the books if Bran's story is going to be that he sees a hint of the Three-Eyed Crow's plan and realizes it is NOT GOOD for his family, so he and Meera and Hodor rush off (and the 3EC does not like them leaving which is why Hodor will have to hold the door) to try and get to Winterfell in time to prevent the plan (and fail, mostly). It's hinted in the books that Euron is in some way associated with the 3EC and Book Euron is loving Terrifying. So a part of me wonders if the whole "put the guy who knows all our stories on the throne" is that the twist is that in the books there are power in stories. That specifically the 3EC and Euron's plan is to manipulate events to recreate the Blood Betrayal and call forth the Long Night, and Bran's role in the final story is figuring out how they beat the Long Night the first time around. Then they put the guy who knows all the stories on the throne and tell him "keep us from doing anything that stupid ever again".
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Sep 8, 2020 14:03
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It's weird, the lengths people will go to justify the bad writing of this show. When was it ever established that the three eyed raven had taken over Bran? When was there ever any hint of that occurring beforehand? Why do you think that D&D would choose to use subtlety in there of all places, when everywhere else they half-assed everything else up to the very end?
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Sep 8, 2020 18:12
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The show not mentioning any of the things alluded to in the books = all the stuff that was alluded to in the books is true in the show world, and all fan theories are now true too
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Sep 8, 2020 18:48
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Skeleton_arm_stabbing_jojen.gif
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Sep 8, 2020 18:53
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Arrrthritis posted:It's weird, the lengths people will go to justify the bad writing of this show. When was it ever established that the three eyed raven had taken over Bran? When was there ever any hint of that occurring beforehand? Why do you think that D&D would choose to use subtlety in there of all places, when everywhere else they half-assed everything else up to the very end? I feel like the three eyed raven barely exists in the show and most show only watchers wouldn't know who that is if you asked them.
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Sep 8, 2020 22:24
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Sky Shadowing posted:Daenerys, who is actually Rhaegar's daughter. Wait what? Is this some weird fan theory, because it doesn't make a ton of sense
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Sep 9, 2020 00:24
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Sky Shadowing posted:The only things fAegon has on her are this: consider: these are the important ones
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Sep 9, 2020 00:44
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PittTheElder posted:Wait what? Is this some weird fan theory, because it doesn't make a ton of sense Yeah, is it? I fail to see how it'd change anything for her...it doesn't matter if Jon or fAegon were her nephews or her brothers, they're equally preferred in either case because Westeros is sexist. I never understand why the "reality" of a character's lineage is taken at face value in these conversations. It doesn't actually matter what the reality is; people support who'd be most advantageous for them and then use whatever tentative claim they need to justify it. Robert became King because he had the support and Aerys was an erratic psychopath; Robert's genetic claim was an ex post facto thing. Likewise, if Joffrey was actually charismatic or competent, people probably wouldn't have cared so much that he was a bastard. Real or not, Jon's story sounds like bullshit...he's the secret heir through a secret marriage to a dynasty that was killed and overthrown decades ago. Who gives a poo poo? Nobody, until the options are him or something scarier to the status quo. I'm sure there are plenty of real-world examples of this throughout classical and medieval history.
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Sep 9, 2020 01:14
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Dany gives a poo poo because her whole identity is based on being the "rightful" ruler, as in according to strict rules about succession.
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Sep 9, 2020 04:24
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Xealot posted:Yeah, is it? I fail to see how it'd change anything for her...it doesn't matter if Jon or fAegon were her nephews or her brothers, they're equally preferred in either case because Westeros is sexist. Jon is still a bastard unless bigamy is legal. And bastards have no legal standing (although, sometime people like to back them and have a war about it). At the end of the day, the only legitimacy any ruler has is what they can enforce - Dany is no more deserving of the throne just because her ancestors were bigger murdering bastards than the king/s at the time. Is there a stronger religious element in the books? Why does she think she's the "rightful" ruler? Did she even have a religion?
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Sep 9, 2020 09:17
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