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zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Station houses and unloading machines desperately need better visual management. Trying to find the flat textured cube with an open door or the grey metal box along a load/unload line is torture. The station house dots on a schematic station map is some very complicated and deep psychological torture.

I know where most of them are now by experience but still it's a pain.

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PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006

Stairmaster posted:

derail valley question: where the gently caress is the loading machine for section D ( the pier) in the harbor?

e: oh... its right there

I think somebody in steam community made a map of all the stations.

SwimNurd
Oct 28, 2007

mememememe

PerniciousKnid posted:

I think somebody in steam community made a map of all the stations.

The game even includes a map. The station map all the locations of the service areas, shops, etc

StarkRavingMad
Sep 27, 2001


Yams Fan

Anime Store Adventure posted:

Me in derail valley, but replace “loading machine for section d” with literally anything in the game at all and also I’m drunk and listening to a podcast.

I’ve never had so much fun getting consistently lost.

Holding that loving station map and being like "I came in from the...north..east? And I'm by track C so the station house is by track G which is, over...there? But that's just water." *holds map upside down* "this way? It's....well now, I'm at the military terminal, this isn't it"

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

SwimNurd posted:

The game even includes a map. The station map all the locations of the service areas, shops, etc

they're poo poo tho

StarkRavingMad
Sep 27, 2001


Yams Fan
Derail Valley update, with one big change: ability to control multiple locomotives at once - no longer have to mod that in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUVihtYCSH0

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

I forgot that switches don't reset themselves EVER in derail valley and nearly crashed into a consist of flatbeds at 40mph. Thank god for the shunters adamantine brakes.

JerikTelorian
Jan 19, 2007



Stormworks is pretty neat. If they just forked the game and made one with damage modeling and weapons, you'd have a user-friendly version of what GCombat used to offer and almost certainly a top seller on steam. I got a Type VII U-Boat off the workshop and it's insanely detailed and extremely fun to just walk around in.

I don't really care much for the rescue gameplay but I think even outside of that it could be a super cool scrounging-and-exploration game where you build vehicles to travel around the world.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Adding damage modeling to Stormworks isnt a simple fork. The only reason you can model a Type VII sub and still get 45 fps instead of 4.5 fps is the whole thing is baked together (mostly). IIRC there's some simple HP systems going on that let your hull get punctured and sink if you run into something too hard. But the only reason it works as well as it does is because they aren't bogged down in voxel sim of every component.

E. Looking at what Gcombat actually is and I guess the bar isn't set very high if that's all you want. Just joust your boats

More thinking reflex because everyone's first thought when wanting to add combat is "why is this not space engineers" and the above applies to that.

zedprime fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Sep 25, 2020

Anime Store Adventure
May 6, 2009


There’s a demo for Contraband Police during the current steam event and it’s basically Low Budget Unity-based Papers Please.

The demo isn’t long but it was enough to know I’m going to buy that janky weird garbage and probably put as many hours into the game as it took to code.

grate deceiver
Jul 10, 2009

Just a funny av. Not a redtext or an own ok.

JerikTelorian posted:

Stormworks is pretty neat. If they just forked the game and made one with damage modeling and weapons, you'd have a user-friendly version of what GCombat used to offer and almost certainly a top seller on steam. I got a Type VII U-Boat off the workshop and it's insanely detailed and extremely fun to just walk around in.

I don't really care much for the rescue gameplay but I think even outside of that it could be a super cool scrounging-and-exploration game where you build vehicles to travel around the world.

Isn't that pretty much From the Depths?

TjyvTompa
Jun 1, 2001

im gay
Cattle and Crops is finally released, now with the name "Professional Farmer: Cattle and Crops":
https://store.steampowered.com/app/704030/Professional_Farmer_Cattle_and_Crops/
https://www.cattleandcrops.com/
Game has been under development for many years and progress was glacial but version 1.0 was released yesterday.

Compared to Farming Simulator this game is supposed to be more realistic, I haven't tried it myself but from what I've seen it looks kind of unpolished and sluggish. I really like Farming Simulator with the Courseplay mod that makes it possible to automate most things, hoping that this game can recreate that experience and make it easier than using the quite complex Courseplay mod.

Edit: The game has 51 tutorials and you need to calculate the exact ration of NPK fertilizer for each crop and field. I'm starting to think this might be a bit much even for me.

TjyvTompa fucked around with this message at 11:16 on Oct 16, 2020

Dr. Garbanzo
Sep 14, 2010
Course play was good in the last version of farming sim but this one has been in development since the game released and I think they changed enough things in the game code that most of the old functionality isn't accesible anymore.
The version of GPS we got this time round is also more difficult to use because it's far closer to reality than the older versions were

WithoutTheFezOn
Aug 28, 2005
Oh no
FWIW many of the steam reviews seem to say it’s basically been abandoned and the only reason to call it 1.0 is “we’ve basically given up”.

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006
That reminds me of Objects in Space. RIP :(

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
A part of me was really interested in Course Play and Seasons when I first started Farm Sim. But that's somehow turned into lawnmower go brrrrrr instead and playing unmodded because it's just fun to see the heavy machinery generically in action instead of specifically and widely in action.

By the time I'm calculating soil nutrients and stuff I want SimFarm management style instead.

power crystals
Jun 6, 2007

Who wants a belly rub??

I would love to death a hypothetical game that's just Farm Sim but top down and the vehicles are all controlled by AI except I set rules or tasks like "fertilize any field that needs it" or "go weed this field right now". But keeping the ridiculous quantity of vehicles/tools FS19 has because staring at the in-game store for 20 minutes trying to decide exactly which cultivator I want is the best part of the game. What do I have to pay Giants to make this happen?

TjyvTompa
Jun 1, 2001

im gay

power crystals posted:

I would love to death a hypothetical game that's just Farm Sim but top down and the vehicles are all controlled by AI except I set rules or tasks like "fertilize any field that needs it" or "go weed this field right now". But keeping the ridiculous quantity of vehicles/tools FS19 has because staring at the in-game store for 20 minutes trying to decide exactly which cultivator I want is the best part of the game. What do I have to pay Giants to make this happen?

It seems that this is what Cattle and Crops wants to achieve. I've done 41 out of 51 tutorials so far and it seems you can have the AI do pretty much everything, even loading the bunker with silage at the biogas plant.

chairface
Oct 28, 2007

No matter what you believe, I don't believe in you.

Having played a buncha the farmsim games it was always funny to me how the most profitable thing you can't automate is mowing grass -> making silage -> biogas so while running an ever-expanding wheat farm I actually spend all my time mowing grass. At least in the new one you can only mow grass you own. In 17 you could become arbitrarily rich while owning no land just by mowing all the grass. I want to live in the fs13-17 world where people cut grass for free because the grass itself is so goddamn profitable to harvest. IIRC 15 had a mission system that included "cut my grass" as a mission and that always owned. "get paid twice for that thing you were already gonna do"

Dr. Garbanzo
Sep 14, 2010

chairface posted:

Having played a buncha the farmsim games it was always funny to me how the most profitable thing you can't automate is mowing grass -> making silage -> biogas so while running an ever-expanding wheat farm I actually spend all my time mowing grass. At least in the new one you can only mow grass you own. In 17 you could become arbitrarily rich while owning no land just by mowing all the grass. I want to live in the fs13-17 world where people cut grass for free because the grass itself is so goddamn profitable to harvest. IIRC 15 had a mission system that included "cut my grass" as a mission and that always owned. "get paid twice for that thing you were already gonna do"

the silage missions in 19 work in a similar way cause if you mow everything in the field and turn it all into bails you end up finishing the mission with a pile of bails still left in the field so you make an additonal profit for the time you put in above the amount you got paid for the mission.

Kilonum
Sep 30, 2002

You know where you are? You're in the suburbs, baby. You're gonna drive.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gB37fsuvQY

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


Anyone playing FireFighting Simulator THE SQUAD?

I like the gameplay, but the driving is pretty lame because one person gets to drive to the scene, sometimes, 3 or 4 minutes away while everyone else stands around. Actually fighting fires and stuff is good though I wish there was some ability to overhaul and park the truck where the ladder will actually do good.

tater_salad
Sep 15, 2007


yeah I was playing a game with this guy. and we had to park in the square, the ladder wouldn't turn towards the house due to the cab beign in the way.. kinda lame. I mean I guess we could have turned around and backed in but it's not that great.

Fifty Farts
Dec 23, 2013

- Meticulously Researched
- Peer-reviewed
That firefighter game makes me think of Flashing Lights, a game I've had on my wishlist for a couple months, but haven't really heard much about. Has anyone here played it and is it as janky as it looks?

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


beats for junkies posted:

That firefighter game makes me think of Flashing Lights, a game I've had on my wishlist for a couple months, but haven't really heard much about. Has anyone here played it and is it as janky as it looks?

I think Tater and I played it but it was insane jank and bad, that said, it's EA so maybe it's getting better?

Blue On Blue
Nov 14, 2012

Elendil004 posted:

I think Tater and I played it but it was insane jank and bad, that said, it's EA so maybe it's getting better?

I think we tried it did about 10 minutes

It was just a model viewer at that point in time. To look at the pretty fire truck

You couldn’t actually do any , you know , fire fighting

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
I've had it on my wishlist for a while but most of the reviews are like "GTA5 mods do everything this does better" so I'm not super hopeful it blossoms into something worth buying.

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006
Mudrunner is free on Epic Games Store today. Snowrunner is discounted, as well.

Kilonum
Sep 30, 2002

You know where you are? You're in the suburbs, baby. You're gonna drive.

beats for junkies posted:

That firefighter game makes me think of Flashing Lights, a game I've had on my wishlist for a couple months, but haven't really heard much about. Has anyone here played it and is it as janky as it looks?

I played it a bit a year ago or so. Was pretty janky then but had decent playability. Might stream it a bit on Sunday, see what's new/changed. Tomorrow is my only other day off and I plan on being on the phone with like 3 different car dealerships trying to buy something that will last me the next 3-5 years for $4k.

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.


Kilonum posted:

I played it a bit a year ago or so. Was pretty janky then but had decent playability. Might stream it a bit on Sunday, see what's new/changed. Tomorrow is my only other day off and I plan on being on the phone with like 3 different car dealerships trying to buy something that will last me the next 3-5 years for $4k.

From the streams I've seen it still only has (janky) police content.

Krataar
Sep 13, 2011

Drums in the deep

I bought Derail Valley on a whim today after being reminded it exists, and it way more fun than I expected. Needs a bit more fleshing out or even some coop and it'd be great. If they add a way to add more trains or different maps I'd be very happy. I'm currently trying to figure out how to get the shunt to do what I want and get to a second engine while navigating my horrendous copay for hazmat deliveries.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
If anyone was wondering why Farm Sim wouldn't do something as simple as a DLC about liming to pH and fertilizing to nitrogen, or add field metrics, the news/release today is because they were fishing for a sponsorship from the farm lobby and John Deer. Its only at the mod hub because :shrug: I can only assume they're measuring downloads for sponsorship bucks.

https://farming-simulator.com/newsArticle.php?lang=en&country=us&news_id=196

Who's loving ready to drive around their plots figuring out if they have sandy loam or loamy sand?

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
Anybody around with opinions on Train Sim World 2? If nothing else I kind of like the routes that import from TSW but are there any good packs worth picking up in one of the bundles or DLC on sale?

algebra testes
Mar 5, 2011


Lipstick Apathy
I bought it. I don't love it the way I love Ohio Steel or that awesome Retro Bay Area route for TS but it is pretty neat.

Dark_Swordmaster
Oct 31, 2011
I have routinely heard that TSW and Train Simulator have "terrible" physics but I have never seen much of a write-up explaining how or what. Not saying I don't believe the people who are hardcore train enthusiasts that say it has bad physics, but not being a person intimately familiar with the details I have no idea how they're "bad."

Please someone help elucidate me.

Log082
Nov 8, 2008


Dark_Swordmaster posted:

I have routinely heard that TSW and Train Simulator have "terrible" physics but I have never seen much of a write-up explaining how or what. Not saying I don't believe the people who are hardcore train enthusiasts that say it has bad physics, but not being a person intimately familiar with the details I have no idea how they're "bad."

Please someone help elucidate me.

I don't know much about the physics but I suspect the complaints would be about the draft and buff forces being simplified or something?

I bought TS2021 on sale through the humble bundle, and I've been very disappointed by the NEC philly to new york route. The modeling/graphics of the surroundings isn't that great. The highline through Philly is partially represented, which is nice since it's not technically part of the route, but also not nice because it's not really accurately modelled. I guess I can forgive that since it's not really part of it, but I wanted to drive a train by Drexel and lay on the horn, living out my grad school fantasies of loving with students taking tests. I did actually try that, which is where I found out that TS doesn't really model electrical trains. If you have the pantograph up, electical locomotives will get juice even if the track doesn't have any catenary.

BgRdMchne
Oct 31, 2011

Dark_Swordmaster posted:

I have routinely heard that TSW and Train Simulator have "terrible" physics but I have never seen much of a write-up explaining how or what. Not saying I don't believe the people who are hardcore train enthusiasts that say it has bad physics, but not being a person intimately familiar with the details I have no idea how they're "bad."

Please someone help elucidate me.

B4Ctom1 posted:

Pretty much this. It is hard to explain not just the physics, but the amounts of forces involved.

We use throttle to create stretching or "draft" forces and dynamic braking (think of downhill engine braking in a car) to create bunching or "buff" forces.

To start with, when you are running the train, you are feathering the throttle or dynamic braking to keep "in train forces" at acceptable levels. This is based upon the terrain each part of the train is passing over.

Even small changes in grade, if there are enough of them under the length of the train, are enough to break knuckles, rip out draw bars, or derail cars simply by doing "nothing at all" at the wrong time.

In these situations heavier applications of power or dynamic brake are required to keep these "in train forces" down.

Think of a large sliced loaf of bread. I take the wrapper off of it and ask you to carry it across the room. One hand on each end should suffice. A small amount of pressure to keep the bread from being crushed and across the room you go.

The knuckle and drawbar connections between the cars seem very strong to the layman, but when compared to the amount of weight of loaded freight cars, and all of the cars behind them piled upon it, it may as well be dental floss.

You can break dental floss easily, but the difference is that it is hard to "crush" dental floss.

The poster I have quoted above is addressing something we call "train make up". THe "in train forces" can be additionally effected by the way cars or groups of cars are placed in the train. Long cars next to short cars, loads next to empties.

Generally freight trains that are not hauling a bulk of the same commodity are mixed freight. A bulk commodity train would be an entire train of wheat or coal. These trains are very heavy, and have their own set of problems, but in general do not have any issue of train make up because all of the cars are generally the same weight and type. Mixed freight trains are the most common types of trains on the main rail thoroughfares.

A mixed freight train I haul might have 25 heavy loaded lumber cars, 15 empty or loaded auto racks, 20 empty or loaded tank cars of various lengths, 30 empty or loaded covered hopper cars of various lengths, and 30 loaded or empty boxcars of two different lengths.

So for this example train of 120 cars. Lets say it weighs 7900 tons and is 9000 feet (2.75KM) long.

I am traveling along at 50 MPH.

The "head end" of the train has passed the bottom of the grade and the train is still descending the grade. As about half of the train leaves the grade I am looking ahead at the next grade to climb directly ahead. I have been using dynamic brake and need to "transition" from braking to power. I move the lever into the idle position and begin waiting my 10 seconds. In my my mind, from experience, I know that I need to rapidly, but gently begin notching through my power notches without allowing my train to accelerate past 50 MPH which I am restricted to.

The very head of the train is traveling around a slight curvature in the track. I also need to see that the next signal is green "clear" so that I do not have to formulate an entire other plan as a reduction of speed might be required instead. I see that the signal is flashing yellow "advanced approach". This will mean a reduction of speed to 40 MPH and a possible stop short of the second signal ahead.

As I am thinking of what I am to do next and waiting for the 10 seconds to pass, the next crossing becomes visible and I see that there is a truck hauling a low slung trailer with a heavy piece of equipment on it. He is blocking the crossing because his low slung trailer is stuck on the raised rail and crossing lumber that you drive across.

Without hesitation or further consideration, I slam the brake handle into the emergency position, dumping all the trainline air. I reach up and toggle the switch that ensures that the "End Of Train" device dumps from the rear as well. I bail off the locomotive air brakes because they are so powerful in a situation like this, that they can cause such a massive buff forces which will certainly derail a train. Additionally they can crumple or destroy the track beneath them.

While in earlier transition from dynamic braking to power "slack" had developed in the train. Slack is neither draft or buff, but more of a null position like rail cars standing in a yard not connected to a train. A developed space between cars where they are sort of relaxed.

As the air dumped from the train-line, the brake valves on each car sense this emergency and dump the full value of air contained within their emergency reservoir into the large cylinder that applies the brakes giving each car higher than usual stopping power.

Somewhere near the head end of the train a group of empty tank cars having such massive braking power begin to stop the train, but right behind them a group of heavy loaded hoppers presses against them, their own braking being less substantial. A tank car of Anhydrous Ammonia right between the groups which has been taking the brunt of these two opposing forces has a wheel that lifts off the rail as it is being pressed around a curve. This car, the car ahead of it, and nine of the loaded hopper cars behind it all leave the rail and head into a tiny quiet suburb in the middle of the night.

Half way back in the train where the most of the box cars are, they settle down for their stop. Still bunched because they were still descending the hill. The heavy loads of lumber fighting them as they come to a stop. Even though on straight track the, one end of an empty boxcar in the group begins to lift into the air. The opposing force of the heavy lumber cars and the stopping train ahead of it is too much. As it sets back down the wheels miss the track and begin to erase the track, all of the cars behind it having no track to ride on begin to take paths of their own in each direction.

Near the back of the train the auto-rack settle down hard. Harder than the group of heavy lumber cars ahead of them. This causes one of the long 500+ pound (230kg) draw-bars in the third auto-rack to be sheared from place. For a moment it tumbles through space, whistling though the wind in contact with only the air. Then it strikes a tie and the car passing above it in vaulted, only inches off of the rail, and a carload of new rangerovers tumbles end over end into a reservoir of drinking water.

The drawbar is angry, propelled by its last impact it drops onto the rail for a moment derailing a load of mini coopers, a load of corvettes, a load of ford diesel pickups, and a load of prius. The last of the autoracks ram into those derailed and the drawbar impales itself through the bottom of a boxcar piercing 20 cases of aged Glenfiddich.

Back on the locomotive, pressed forward by the loads behind, we cover the half mile to the stuck trailer in about 45 seconds. My conductor sees that the piece of equipment is a D9 Caterpillar bulldozer and screams like a woman as he jumps from his window at 35 mph. The fall from 15 feet in the air certainly would have killed him but instead he tumbled and struck feet first shattering his legs in 20 places and cartwheeling to his death as his head exploded when it struck the hard granite ballast some 20 times or so in the cartwheeling tumble. It takes 24 hours for them to find his body under crumpled boxcars.

I run out the back door to the second locomotive where I lay down in the cab. The impact at 35 mph is brutal. The second locomotive which I am on climbs under the front locomotive. The third locomotive does the same to mine. When the locomotive comes to a rest, is on its side, and both my arms are broken.

I drown, face down, in 200 gallons of brownish, blueish sewage from a chemical toilet long overdue for a cleaning. But my dignity is preserved because a fire from the combined 12,000 gallons (45.5 Kiloliters) of fuel burns for 3 days incinerating me and most of the locomotives completely.

The undocumented worker driving the truck with the wedged trailer disappears.

During the conductor's autopsy, trace amounts of THC from a brownie he consumed 3 weeks earlier while on vacation in Amsterdam are found to be the cause of the accident.

It was also noted in the government report that the cellphone of an engineer on a different train following ours was "on" at the time of our impact, and this may have contributed to the wreck.

StarkRavingMad
Sep 27, 2001


Yams Fan

Krataar posted:

I bought Derail Valley on a whim today after being reminded it exists, and it way more fun than I expected. Needs a bit more fleshing out or even some coop and it'd be great. If they add a way to add more trains or different maps I'd be very happy. I'm currently trying to figure out how to get the shunt to do what I want and get to a second engine while navigating my horrendous copay for hazmat deliveries.

Speaking of which, new update to Derail Valley, including a boombox:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw177ABbUX8

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos
I think the down attitude toward Dovetail sims is they are best at electric commuter trains so the diesel electrics and the like end up feeling extra toy like. Wheel traction is very optimistic in bad weather and on grades, buff/slack exists on long trains but probably not enough to change you driving, and the performance of dynamic vs train brakes encourages unrealistic use of the two. They have parameters that help with some of that as especially the most obscure trains just control like a model train or a commuter train with an industrial skin which is why I'm always in here asking "which train good?", but I think even nailing them leaves room for something to be desired on really big trains.

I think end of progression Derail Valley with the steam loco or big diesel loaded to max capacity remains your best place to RP the buff/slack adventure.

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Dark_Swordmaster
Oct 31, 2011

BgRdMchne posted:

Train poo poo

I'm assuming that TSW doesn't simulate these forces is the main complaint? So for us filthy casuals that know nothing about trains they're perfectly fine aside from incredibly bad UI and overly simplified simulation?

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