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CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.
A 3x developer

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Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

Lockback posted:

Original question didn't specify and its something that is a real risk for non-startups too. I think it's smart to ask about that kind of stuff, but for non-startups you might get a shakey answer because the people you're talking to might legit not really have a good grasp on it.
Steve Blank's definition of a startup is an organization formed to search for a scalable, repeatable business model. I'd like to think that having a credible path to profitability/solvency is a key factor in what makes the company a non-startup in the first place. At that point I'd hope the conversation would be more generally about the business model, growth opportunities, and threats, as opposed to the runway to implosion if the company's trajectory doesn't improve

kayakyakr
Feb 16, 2004

Kayak is true
Eek, Amazon sounds like the worst large company to model your engineering department after.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


But they're successful. Don't you want to be a successful company?

kayakyakr
Feb 16, 2004

Kayak is true
Any of y'all Googlers here in Austin or at least stateside? Friend has a friend of a friend in Poland, but was looking for someone a little closer to home that could ref him in. Non-programming role (training related)

Doghouse
Oct 22, 2004

I was playing Harvest Moon 64 with this kid who lived on my street and my cows were not doing well and I got so raged up and frustrated that my eyes welled up with tears and my friend was like are you crying dude. Are you crying because of the cows. I didn't understand the feeding mechanic.
I have a phone call with Facebook recruiter later today, he found me on LinkedIn. Zero prep. Is he gonna get all technical on me already?

Fate Accomplice
Nov 30, 2006




Doghouse posted:

I have a phone call with Facebook recruiter later today, he found me on LinkedIn. Zero prep. Is he gonna get all technical on me already?

My guess is not. Very rarely have I had a recruiter ask me any technical questions, and if they do, it’s always fairly perfunctory “explain this concept” stuff, and you can almost hear them waiting for you to say the keyword(s) listed in front of them so they can move on to the next question.

Also: please don’t work for Facebook.

Doghouse
Oct 22, 2004

I was playing Harvest Moon 64 with this kid who lived on my street and my cows were not doing well and I got so raged up and frustrated that my eyes welled up with tears and my friend was like are you crying dude. Are you crying because of the cows. I didn't understand the feeding mechanic.

ketchup vs catsup posted:

My guess is not. Very rarely have I had a recruiter ask me any technical questions, and if they do, it’s always fairly perfunctory “explain this concept” stuff, and you can almost hear them waiting for you to say the keyword(s) listed in front of them so they can move on to the next question.

Also: please don’t work for Facebook.

I don't particularly want to, but I live in the midwest and am underpaid, at least in comparison to what they'd pay. And it would look on the ol' resume.

Fate Accomplice
Nov 30, 2006




Doghouse posted:

I don't particularly want to, but I live in the midwest and am underpaid, at least in comparison to what they'd pay. And it would look on the ol' resume.

it would, I agree. I sincerely hope that changes in the future.

I hope you find a higher paying job at not-facebook!

minato
Jun 7, 2004

cutty cain't hang, say 7-up.
Taco Defender

Doghouse posted:

I have a phone call with Facebook recruiter later today, he found me on LinkedIn. Zero prep. Is he gonna get all technical on me already?

The FB recruiter I talked to asked me what initramfs was, and was able to discuss it.

ketchup vs catsup posted:

Also: please don’t work for Facebook.
Yeah, this. For whatever resume cred + $$$ you think it might bring you, the actual working environment is horrible, and you're actively helping to make the world worse.

frogbs
May 5, 2004
Well well well
So I started working for a small/medium sized newspaper company as their associate website person about 7 years ago. Soon after I started their lead developer left, and I was tasked with running everything. We’ve switched CMS’s a few times since, and have also become something of a digital agency, also taking on client website projects for small businesses. Slowly my focus has been shifted from working on newspaper stuff (which is what I was interested in) to focusing on building Wordpress websites for customers, like plumbing companies and your local laundromat. I’ve realized that this is really not my thing, so I’ve started to look for other work.

I’m quickly realizing that I’m really not cut out for much else other than agency work building the exact kind of websites I’m sick of. I also don’t really have the programming/developer chops for any sort of software/tech company. As a result I’m sort of at a loss as to where to go. I’m trying to work on building up my skill set, but have realized that my web/development experience is really about 10 years out of date at this point and am worried I’m going to have a hard time digging myself out of that hole. No one’s really looking for a ‘generalist’ anymore, even other publishing companies.

Sorry for the rant, but, any advice from anyone who’s been in a similar position?

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


What do you want to do?

gbut
Mar 28, 2008

😤I put the UN🇺🇳 in 🎊FUN🎉


frogbs posted:


Sorry for the rant, but, any advice from anyone who’s been in a similar position?

A friend/colleague of mine came to interview with pretty much the same experience. I was one of the interviewers and I like the guy's smarts from the get go. He obviously had the thirst for tech even though his degree was unrelated, and he asked questions that showed that he wanted to grow. We hired him at a junior level, and less then three years later he's a senior. Absolutely crushed it.

I'm not saying here that this is going to be your story. I suggest that you don't despair, and interview wherever you might be interested. There's a degree of luck involved, of course, but if you can show that are eager to grow, that in itself can be a really good signal, no matter your previous experience.

kayakyakr
Feb 16, 2004

Kayak is true
You could also go after Jr level jobs at agencies that do modern dev work. Having someone with experience working with customers is sometimes worth just as much as having someone that knows all the latest tech. The downside is those are possibly among the hardest hit by the pandemic and I know at least my former company has stopped hiring right now and is simply hanging on for dear life.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Officially got a Senior Engineer title after 5+ years in the industry :toot:

Now to be told how I’m not actually a Senior Engineer. Hit me!

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Pollyanna posted:

Officially got a Senior Engineer title after 5+ years in the industry :toot:

Now to be told how I’m not actually a Senior Engineer. Hit me!

Seniority is an illusion and few if any of us are actually engineers

Guinness
Sep 15, 2004

Pollyanna posted:

Now to be told how I’m not actually a Senior Engineer. Hit me!

We are all just faking it until we make it

frogbs
May 5, 2004
Well well well

ultrafilter posted:

What do you want to do?

That's a fair question and probably the root of my problem, i'm not really sure anymore!

Above all else, I think i'd like it if I was just able to focus at my current job, having to support/build websites for small businesses AND support our main newspaper sites simultaneously is getting tiresome. I was hired just to work on the newspaper side, taking care of those sites, adding new functionality, etc. I'm still interested in doing that work, but I think it's all the Wordpress stuff for customers that just completely drains me. This company has placed their focus completely on the advertising/revenue side, they don't care about the actual publishing side very much any more, as long as things are mostly working. I'm also tired of working alone, i'd love to have other people on the same team who I could learn from.

So, I guess another web development job for a publishing company that's a little larger?

gbut posted:

A friend/colleague of mine came to interview with pretty much the same experience. I was one of the interviewers and I like the guy's smarts from the get go. He obviously had the thirst for tech even though his degree was unrelated, and he asked questions that showed that he wanted to grow. We hired him at a junior level, and less then three years later he's a senior. Absolutely crushed it.

I'm not saying here that this is going to be your story. I suggest that you don't despair, and interview wherever you might be interested. There's a degree of luck involved, of course, but if you can show that are eager to grow, that in itself can be a really good signal, no matter your previous experience.


Thank you for this, it's encouraging to hear! I think i'm just going to start applying to anything that seems interesting and hope for the best, while working on adding some things to my tool belt after hours.

kayakyakr posted:

You could also go after Jr level jobs at agencies that do modern dev work. Having someone with experience working with customers is sometimes worth just as much as having someone that knows all the latest tech. The downside is those are possibly among the hardest hit by the pandemic and I know at least my former company has stopped hiring right now and is simply hanging on for dear life.

I'm a little burnt out on the agency stuff, but you're right that there's probably a lot of opportunities there. I don't mind talking to customers, although in some ways managing expectations can be more difficult than the actual development work!

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

Pollyanna posted:

Officially got a Senior Engineer title after 5+ years in the industry :toot:

Now to be told how I’m not actually a Senior Engineer. Hit me!

oh oh i've got one: When did you get your PE?

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Progressive JPEG posted:

oh oh i've got one: When did you get your PE?

So should we just not be using Engineer at all then?

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Probably not. Congrats on the promotion though.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
my degree and title actually say engineer, come at me :v:

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

Xarn posted:

my degree and title actually say engineer, come at me :v:

but do you have stamp

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug

Xarn posted:

my degree and title actually say engineer, come at me :v:

What metal is your magic ring made from?

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



Xarn posted:

my degree and title actually say engineer, come at me :v:

my degree says doctor, but that doesn't mean i can operate on people*


* and expect them to live

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003

Pollyanna posted:

Officially got a Senior Engineer title after 5+ years in the industry :toot:

Now to be told how I’m not actually a Senior Engineer. Hit me!
Look at this scrub who isn't a Member of the Technical Staff.

marumaru
May 20, 2013



name one title less respected than my title of Full Stack Engineer

Guinness
Sep 15, 2004

Inacio posted:

name one title less respected than my title of Full Stack Engineer

php developer

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Inacio posted:

name one title less respected than my title of Full Stack Engineer

Digital Prophet.

Fate Accomplice
Nov 30, 2006




Star War Sex Parrot posted:

Look at this scrub who isn't a Member of the Technical Staff.

in every place I've been, MTS is the highest level non-manager title there is, which always struck me as funny because it's the most vague

JehovahsWetness
Dec 9, 2005

bang that shit retarded

ketchup vs catsup posted:

in every place I've been, MTS is the highest level non-manager title there is, which always struck me as funny because it's the most vague

We've got "Principal Engineer" as the top of our technical / eng path, thankfully it's a dual track thing though. So if you're a "Principal Engineer" I think you're equal to a Director on the management track. You also have to attend senior leadership level meetings and poo poo.

gbut
Mar 28, 2008

😤I put the UN🇺🇳 in 🎊FUN🎉


Same at my place. But for some reason it's everywhere from super easy to impossible to reach that level, totally dependant on the location of the office you're working in.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Xarn posted:

my degree and title actually say engineer, come at me :v:

Haha oh wait so do mine :v:

MononcQc
May 29, 2007

I'm currently "Staff Engineer" which is fun because in some places Staff is the lowest level and in some places it's high ranking. Also I have no legal right to call myself an Engineer where I live, and got no formal education in the discipline.

gbut
Mar 28, 2008

😤I put the UN🇺🇳 in 🎊FUN🎉


Some would think that all that title crap is completely arbitrary and pandering to computer touchers' egos in lieu of paybumps. They would not be wrong.

I myself am an Eminent Computer Fiddler, at least privately.

Che Delilas
Nov 23, 2009
FREE TIBET WEED
I could as easily argue that companies post "software engineer" jobs because they think engineers are more skilled than developers or programmers, despite there being no actual definition. I call myself an engineer on my resume because my observations tell me that those jobs pay more and are at companies where building software is a core part of their business, as opposed to a second class department that is a necessary evil to support the "real" business.

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

I'm an "architect" because that's the title they use for the pay band I'm in

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
i get into a company and then unironically start using the term computer toucher

pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

That elephant ate my entire platoon.

bob dobbs is dead posted:

i get into a company and then unironically start using the term computer toucher

I got one colleague to start using it.

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hendersa
Sep 17, 2006

Progressive JPEG posted:

I'm an "architect" because that's the title they use for the pay band I'm in
What's up, "architect" title buddy? :hfive:

Well, my title is "Systems Architect", anyway. Close enough. In the embedded space, that title means that you lead cross-functional groups and have final decision authority to select chips for the product design, review schematics to ensure requirements are being met, make the call on which OS, toolchain, BSP, etc. to use on the software side, and all that good stuff. You are permanently on the hook for flaws in the design that turn up months down the road, so you'd better be really sure on all of the design decisions you make. You get some wiggle room on the software side, obviously, but once you get a few proto PCBs spun and there is "somewhat working hardware" in hand, you are pretty much stuck with any of your own decisions that turned out to be a bad idea.

In reality, it isn't that bad. You make decisions based on facts and time spent swearing at devkits. If you were just winging it all of the time, you'd be a nervous wreck second-guessing yourself on everything. If you make solid choices, though, you make it look easy.

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