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Vote to threadban Bioshuffle This poll is closed. |
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| Yes (Goku) |
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146 | 85.38% |
| No (also Goku) |
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25 | 14.62% |
| Total: | 171 votes | ||
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:Yeah, some magic substance affecting the natural progression of human life and ability would just be way too out of place on this very grounded television program. Jesus christ do we really have to make every TVIV thread about goons sarcastically communicating back and forth with nothing but disdain? Nobody is saying its impossible for her to be a young Liberty. We just said "hey maybe it could be these other things too". It could very easily go either way. But nobody is saying V totally 100% couldn't possibly do that. Jesus christ.
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Sep 12, 2020 19:25
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davidspackage posted:I still crack up at stuff like Homelander sitting in full costume at the breakfast table, or Deep buying groceries in full getup. On a comic book page it looks pretty natural, but in motion it's so silly (and I realize that's probably very on purpose). I like how he and the Deep seem to have no lives outside of being the Supe. Maeve and Starlight we've seen can put on normal clothing and be normal. I guess that would be easier for a woman because all they have to do is not get all dolled up and put on their costume, and not do their hair and makeup and basically just not go through all the BS Voight and society expects from women. A Dude just changes his clothes but thats about it. Yestermoment posted:Getting some real "i acquit" vibes from some people itt. Goons are notoriously bad at watching TV.
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Sep 12, 2020 19:27
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sliami posted:Do you think the Liberty twist is like ... Too Cool To Be True or something. Like is that too contrived for you? In this show? I'm enjoying nerding out about a show.
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Sep 12, 2020 19:35
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Zaphod42 posted:Jesus christ do we really have to make every TVIV thread about goons sarcastically communicating back and forth with nothing but disdain? I agree with you. The clear indication that I was being sarcastic was just there to subvert your expectations.
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Sep 12, 2020 19:40
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This season also specifically introduced a character who can regenerate any part of his body, and once you've got that you've got yourself a real "Claire's holy cheerleader blood from Heroes" situation. The difference between a Wolverine Healing factor and Immortality is functionally nil (this is why canonically Wolverine is like 300 years old when he dies in the comics)
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Sep 12, 2020 19:53
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Democratic Pirate posted:I wonder if rich/famous people will start trying to buy Compound V for their kids, legally through Vought or via black market. I can't remember, has the show actually gone into how expensive it is to make a supe at all? In the comics, the weak version is $19 billion per dose, and that's explicitly still a complete joke compared to Homelander, Maeve, and Black Noir, who are implied to have cost basically the GDP of a developed country each.
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Sep 12, 2020 19:56
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If I was any part of the marketing team, I would not have the main spokesman be wearing red gloves.
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Sep 12, 2020 20:03
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:I can't remember, has the show actually gone into how expensive it is to make a supe at all? I don't think the show has really gotten into that. A-Train trying to get more and more of it to get his speed fix makes it seem like it can't be that expensive? But then again he is one of the 7. Also, if they were able to make supe terrorists so easily it makes it seem like its cheaper, but then, again, they're the 7 so they could just have billions of dollars to blow?
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Sep 12, 2020 20:36
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What episode talked about Homelander being the most powerful of the 7?
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Sep 12, 2020 20:41
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:I can't remember, has the show actually gone into how expensive it is to make a supe at all? They didn’t talk about costs but we know from the first season of the show that Nubian Prince was worth about 230 mil/year
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Sep 12, 2020 20:53
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V was part of Nazi immortality project. Liberty was the first super solider. Nicely tied how on this apparently glaring plot hole. After the war, Voight bought Nazi scientist that were defecting.
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Sep 12, 2020 21:29
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sponges posted:It seems like with someone as popular as HL it’d be easy to look into his past and find out its all BS. Where did he grow up? What school did he attend? Everything would come up empty. They were filming a propaganda video in season 1 where Homelander returns to his childhood home and reminisces about his perfect upbringing, his parents, his little league team. He even gets upset at having to act out a bunch of fake bullshit and Stilwell manipulates him into finishing it. That probably wasn't Vought's first attempt at a fabricating a normal past for him.
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Sep 12, 2020 21:35
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Zaphod42 posted:Jesus christ do we really have to make every TVIV thread about goons sarcastically communicating back and forth with nothing but disdain? Thankfully most people are here to discuss the show and not join some weird circle jerk about how dumb everyone else is because they don't get the show like they do. Just the very possibility of the show throwing out a red herring seems to be a huge trigger for them. The jury is definitely still out on the liberty/stormfront connection and there are a myriad of possibilities. The only way we'll know for sure is to keep watching the episodes.
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Sep 12, 2020 21:43
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Is the jury really still out on that one though? Like, it seemed pretty cut and dry.
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Sep 12, 2020 21:50
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Bioshuffle posted:From what I've seen, it's only a select few really vocal sperglords who will actively get angry and literally call you Hitler if you disagree with their interpretation. gently caress off.
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Sep 12, 2020 21:55
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"change with the times, I know I've had to" - is stormfront winking directly into the camera. Like sure it's possible it's her daughter or whatever, but then that line means nothing and is really poor writing. Trying to explain that line in a different way causes more shenanigans than just having her not age does. If you are going to entertain other ideas, those ideas have to include a new context for that line.
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Sep 12, 2020 21:56
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veni veni veni posted:Is the jury really still out on that one though? Like, it seemed pretty cut and dry. The show is known for subverting expectations. You're welcome to believe she is the same person, but there's no need to poo poo on people who disagree. My money is on her being Liberty's daughter.
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Sep 12, 2020 21:57
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You can't just undermine your own writing for the sake of it though. Unless you are M. Knight Shamalan. A well written twist still has to make sense with what came before it.
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Sep 12, 2020 22:00
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Bioshuffle posted:It's up for debate. I can see the show pulling a last minute switcheroo and revealing that she is actually a clone, or the daughter. You were claiming Stormfront wasn't a racist after episode 3, you have zero analytical ability and are also racist. Stormfront is Liberty, "change with the time, God knows I did" coming literally the next scene after Liberty appears in a flashback, played by Aya Cash, and then the woman whose brother was killed goes "Hey Stormfront is Liberty" and then right after the Hughie, MM, and Annie go "Stormfront is Liberty and didn't age" is a giant loving cluehammer to the face for everyone out there with a minimum amount of ability to understand. The show couldn't be more blatant unless they literally had a flashing neon sign that said STORMFRONT IS LIBERTY. The "change with the times" line makes zero sense for being her daughter. Ryan secretly being Butcher's kid rather than Homelander's is a more likely twist than Stormfront not being Liberty. Annie being Stormfront's daughter is a more likely twist than Stormfront not being Liberty. Piell fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Sep 12, 2020 |
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Sep 12, 2020 22:01
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It's interesting how A Trains situation shows that Compound V isn't some magic immortality serum; the most powerful supes required the most optimal conditions, effort, and trial and error to get an effective group of powers. Even at best dosing post natally is a limited 'boost' (my guess is that it just temporarily 'resets the clock' by giving them back their peak potential for a little while). A Train was the fastest speedster at one point, but his capabilities had naturally diminished. Since he was under pressure to be the best he kept abusing Compound V which I assume put too much strain on his heart. His brother had the right attitude about A Train's powers; don't treat it like a shortcut, train like you would if you were a top athlete. The egotism about being the best meant he couldn't accept retirement. Which is ironic, since trying to run away from the reality backfired horribly on him. Without the ego, he still would be superhumanly fast and would likely command a very comfortable retirement from Vought given his role in distributing Compound V.
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Sep 12, 2020 22:12
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eSporks posted:"change with the times, I know I've had to" - is stormfront winking directly into the camera. Sure... Zaphod42 posted:2 is the only one which remotely counts as maybe evidence she's actually her and not a daughter or clone. That could mean other things though, about her image or how she uses modern technology or culture.  As others said, it could be a red-herring. But it could also just not be that intentional, the writers could have decided something else and then written that line because she's embracing the modern meme culture and Homelander isn't, and they didn't consider that it might be misleading and imply she literally is her but changed. At this point I do think its probably more likely it is the same person, but to me the most biggest evidence for it isn't her saying that. Its that they didn't even discuss or consider that it could be a relative. Seems like a pretty obvious thing for the characters to consider. So not talking about it means it would have to be like, a twist? But it'd be a pretty lame twist. Her being 70 works better as a "twist" if that's the direction its going. (Clone works well too though, and all you guys and your "this world can't have immortality V?" could also ask the same "this world can't have cloning?" question; which we know in the comics world it absolutely does )
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Sep 12, 2020 22:16
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Piell posted:coming literally the next scene after Liberty appears in a flashback, played by Aya Cash Please stop stating this over and over like its completely 100% definitive. Have you seriously never seen a tv show where the same actor played a relative in another time period? It is EXCEEDINGLY common. This argument has been made like 4 times last page. Can everybody please stop acting like anybody having a different guess at where the plot is going makes them stupid compared to you? None of us are cool because of a take on a loving TV show. The show hasn't told us what it is definitively yet. Talking about the possibilities is cool and good. Piell posted:Ryan secretly being Butcher's kid rather than Homelander's is a more likely twist than Stormfront not being Liberty. Annie being Stormfront's daughter is a more likely twist than Stormfront not being Liberty. I feel like you're arguing this in a void ignoring that the counter examples aren't "Stormfront has loving nothing to do with Liberty whatsoever" its "Stormfront is Liberty's clone or daughter" Not a single person in this thread is saying Stormfront isn't related to Liberty. Stop being a jerk about television fiction. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Sep 12, 2020 |
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Sep 12, 2020 22:18
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I'm all for weird fan theories, but the show pretty much lays out that liberty is Stormfront plain as day, and your alternate theory isn't even something that is exciting. if it were true, all it would mean is that the show has bad writing.
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Sep 12, 2020 22:26
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veni veni veni posted:I'm all for weird fan theories, but the show pretty much lays out that liberty is Stormfront plain as day, and your alternate theory isn't even something that is exciting. All it would mean is that the show has bad writing. Again, the thing is all of your "plain as day" evidence works equally well for all scenarios. You could say the same about each idea. Its not exclusionary. Its definitely not "they have nothing to do with each other" that would indeed be bad writing just for subversion. But all the evidence just says they're related. We don't know conclusively beyond that. Its kinda weird how you're so confident you can't see that.
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Sep 12, 2020 22:29
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TV IV... TV IV never changes.
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Sep 12, 2020 22:33
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They literally say "Stormfront is Liberty" in one scene, the next scene is "hey Stormfront would have to be super old to be Liberty, must be because of Compound V weirdness", and then the literal next scene is Stormfront saying "you've got to change with the times, God knows I did". Does she have to add "because I'm super old and changed my look and superhero name from when I was Liberty" for people to understand this?
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Sep 12, 2020 22:35
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Deep - Would be interesting to see him get manipulated by his cult for their own benefit, since they have the archer guy too. Back in season one I wondered if he would eventually become some kind of eco terrorist to some extent given his track record. Noir- Like the comics, I'm guessing he's lab grown through instead of the comic angle I think maybe he might be like a Homelander v1.5 with distinct DNA but more carefully controlled mental conditioning. He expresses empathy and is very focused on his job. Unlike Deep and A Train he doesn't carry this huge ego about his role and unlike Maeve he's not paralyzed by cynicism and trauma. He neither sees Homelander as a dangerous threat nor a rival. There's a lot of ways they can go with him - maybe he's a robot? Maybe he's a 'team' of Noirs that individually are not particularly durable but swap between each other to look tougher? Maeve- Her relationship with her ex makes me wonder about what happens when Homelander inevitably kidnaps or harms her. She's so jaded and emotionally ravaged by trauma she could just end up committing suicide one way or another. I didn't like her last stand in the comic series, how do you not know you are wielding a prop sword? Stormfront- Likely destined to instigate more conflict through intermediaries. We already know Homelander himself created super terrorists and Stormfront seems like she is going to be doing the same. I bet she will be the one to convince Homelander to stage a coup against the govt when he gets too frustrated the military won't willingly support him. Homelander- Mask is seriously slipping and it's only downhill from here. A big part of his presence is the threat of his powers. So far he's never really struggled against any threat but as soon as he can't intimidate others into getting his way and the boys find some ways of leveling the playing field it'll be interesting to see how he responds. He doesn't strike me as someone willing to die for his beliefs much less break a nail over them so I do wonder how much conviction he really has. We see brief clips of him lasering a soldier flipping him off, lasering someone in half, and sweeping his laser vision across a crowd so he's going to be losing his temper soon. I wouldn't be shocked if his 'son' is not even his after all, or his power set is merely engineered to resemble Homelander's powers. The whole thing could be an elaborate ruse by Mr. Edgar to keep Homelander in line by making him think he's got some supe legacy going. So much of Vought and the supes is kayfabe one way or another it makes you skeptical of everything except in the case of Stormfront, one hundred percent heel clicking fascist under that cape, no doubt.
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Sep 12, 2020 22:36
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magiccarpet posted:TV IV... TV IV never changes. For real. I do have to hand it to them for the weekly release schedule, it's been sparking a lot of conversation that would be lost if the whole season was released at once.
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Sep 12, 2020 22:41
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I bet after the next episode the argument will be "OK, Stormfront is a racist and apparently hasn't aged in decades, but does that make her really a nazi?" Then the episode after that the shouts seig heil and does a roman salute, and the goalposts will shift again.
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Sep 12, 2020 22:44
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As Nero Danced posted:I bet after the next episode the argument will be "OK, Stormfront is a racist and apparently hasn't aged in decades, but does that make her really a nazi?" Then the episode after that the shouts seig heil and does a roman salute, and the goalposts will shift again. You can't know it was a seig heil, she might have been pointing at a pigeon!
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Sep 12, 2020 22:46
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As Nero Danced posted:I bet after the next episode the argument will be "OK, Stormfront is a racist and apparently hasn't aged in decades, but does that make her really a nazi?" Then the episode after that the shouts seig heil and does a roman salute, and the goalposts will shift again. "But have we actually seen her gas a gypsy?"
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Sep 12, 2020 22:48
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:For real. I do have to hand it to them for the weekly release schedule, it's been sparking a lot of conversation that would be lost if the whole season was released at once. Honestly, I could have lived without a very large portion of that conversation.
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Sep 12, 2020 22:49
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As Nero Danced posted:I bet after the next episode the argument will be "OK, Stormfront is a racist and apparently hasn't aged in decades, but does that make her really a nazi?" Then the episode after that the shouts seig heil and does a roman salute, and the goalposts will shift again. She may have been waving to a friend at the back of the room.
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Sep 12, 2020 22:51
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Jedit posted:Honestly, I could have lived without a very large portion of that conversation. Well I never said it was good conversation.
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Sep 12, 2020 22:53
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For a moment we will ignore that the characters in the show immediately come to the conclusion that they Liberty and Stormfront are the same person, Stormfront implies that she has actually been around for a long time , which is followed up by a flashback where she plays liberty etc etc. For the sake of argument, we will say all of that seemingly concrete story telling is actually a red herring so they can reveal that..it's actually her daughter. Like, who cares? All of those smoke and mirrors for what? A reveal that basically amounts to the same thing? Why would they mislead the audience and contradict their own writing for a reveal as mundane as "oh I guess it's her daughter" lol.
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Sep 12, 2020 23:01
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I could see it if the reveal is to expose a supe breeding/cloning program or facility What makes no sense with that theory is why her daughter/clone would ALSO be identically racist
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Sep 12, 2020 23:06
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Yeah I mean you don’t really gain anything plot wise by making her be a daughter of who cares and you lose a lot by losing the potential fun of an immortal supe.
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Sep 12, 2020 23:08
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veni veni veni posted:For a moment we will ignore that the characters in the show immediately come to the conclusion that they Liberty and Stormfront are the same person, Stormfront implies that she has actually been around for a long time , which is followed up by a flashback where she plays liberty etc etc. Yeah... agreed. Zaphod42 posted:At this point I do think its probably more likely it is the same person, but to me the most biggest evidence for it isn't her saying that. Its that they didn't even discuss or consider that it could be a relative. Seems like a pretty obvious thing for the characters to consider. So not talking about it means it would have to be like, a twist? But it'd be a pretty lame twist. Her being 70 works better as a "twist" if that's the direction its going. (Clone works well too though, and all you guys and your "this world can't have immortality V?" could also ask the same "this world can't have cloning?" question; which we know in the comics world it absolutely does ) Y'all gotta slow down and actually read what people are saying instead of assuming.
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Sep 12, 2020 23:12
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Cult guys being an arm of Shining Light would be pretty cool. Though it's also a HUGE get for Scientology to rehab a supe and get them back into the 7. Imagine the PR for them.
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Sep 12, 2020 23:13
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massive spider posted:Yeah I mean you don’t really gain anything plot wise by making her be a daughter of who cares and you lose a lot by losing the potential fun of an immortal supe. Exactly. What's more interesting, "I'm the clone of some rando hero from North Carolina in the 70s," "I'm the daughter of some rando hero from North Carolina in the 70s," or "remember how we mentioned the founder of the company was a Nazi scientist in the first episode? Well I was his guinea pig and I haven't age today since I left the Hitler youth."
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Sep 12, 2020 23:13
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