Modern Star Trek Megathread: A holistic approach to starship security

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Snow Cone Capone: Jul 31, 2003

Picard got a promotion to captain of the Stargazer when he was 28, according to MemAlpha

# ? Sep 17, 2020 23:13

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 11:28

Phylodox: Mar 30, 2006; College Slice

Mariner was 100% a Wesley Crusher-esque wunderkind who was in the academy at 12-years-old and could have been a captain at 18 but suffered burnout or something.

# ? Sep 17, 2020 23:19

Alchenar: Apr 9, 2008

TomR posted:

I think the point they are trying to make is that Mariner could be a captain already if she had worked towards that. I kinda feel like a lot of the issues she has with her mother are being missed or discounted by people. They really do explain her character.

Her character is completely understandable. She's not very complex. That's not the problem. There are three problems:

1) Mariner has not grown as a character.
2) Mariner in her current static form, should not want to be in Starfleet. The show has even pointed to this multiple times but doesn't have a hint of an answer.
3) Everyone else in the show should consider Mariner a loser. She's wasted all her potential and actively rejects the notion that she has to do any self-improvement (yeah this episode we got a glimpse in that direction, but no movement whatsoever). Mariner isn't just an annoying character, that refusal to seek to better herself is literally the opposite of everything that Star Trek is supposed to be about. Now it's okay to have a character in Star Trek that represents the antithesis of the show's core values, but Lower Decks doesn't do this, Lower Decks rewards Mariner for this behaviour, putting no consequences on her whatsoever and making her effortlessly popular with everyone.

Compare contrast with Boimler's B-story in this episode;(vague, but spoilers I guess) he takes a risk to help someone and it goes badly. He then takes a risk to help someone else and it also looks like it's gone badly. Then it's revealed he did the right thing all along. Boimler's trying to do the right thing, doesn't quite have the hang of it yet, and consequentially suffers some bumps along the road. Characters actually react positively and negatively to what he does. At the end of the day his faith in following the rules is rewarded. It's not perfect, but there's actually a story arc there

e: the way they developed Picard's character is a bit weird in retrospect because everyone remembers him as 'the Diplomat Captain' yet his backstory of how he got promoted is an absolutely metal 'my ship was getting blown up in a battle and half the crew were dead and I took charge of the shattered bridge and on the spot invented the battle tactic of charging the enemy point black and alpha striking him'. I almost want to see a do-over of TNG where they leant a bit more into the idea that Picard is getting the flagship precisely because he's seen his share of blood spilt and is at a point where he doesn't want to see any more (to counter-balance the officers who are all young go-getters who want to make a name for themselves with the Federation's most powerful ship).

Alchenar fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Sep 17, 2020

# ? Sep 17, 2020 23:20

MichiganCubbie: Dec 11, 2008; I love that I have an erection...

...that doesn't involve homeless people.

I totally thought that we were heading into The Thing territory, and they kinda faked me out. Then I figured we were headed into The Fly territory with Rutherford's transporters, but they faked me out on that, too.

I love seeing another one of Lt. Arax's species!

# ? Sep 17, 2020 23:32

TomR: Apr 1, 2003; I both own and operate a pirate ship.

Alchenar posted:

Her character is completely understandable. She's not very complex. That's not the problem. There are three problems:

1) Mariner has not grown as a character.
2) Mariner in her current static form, should not want to be in Starfleet. The show has even pointed to this multiple times but doesn't have a hint of an answer.
3) Everyone else in the show should consider Mariner a loser. She's wasted all her potential and actively rejects the notion that she has to do any self-improvement (yeah this episode we got a glimpse in that direction, but no movement whatsoever). Mariner isn't just an annoying character, that refusal to seek to better herself is literally the opposite of everything that Star Trek is supposed to be about. Now it's okay to have a character in Star Trek that represents the antithesis of the show's core values, but Lower Decks doesn't do this, Lower Decks rewards Mariner for this behaviour, putting no consequences on her whatsoever and making her effortlessly popular with everyone.

Compare contrast with Boimler's B-story in this episode;(vague, but spoilers I guess) he takes a risk to help someone and it goes badly. He then takes a risk to help someone else and it also looks like it's gone badly. Then it's revealed he did the right thing all along. Boimler's trying to do the right thing, doesn't quite have the hang of it yet, and consequentially suffers some bumps along the road. Characters actually react positively and negatively to what he does. At the end of the day his faith in following the rules is rewarded. It's not perfect, but there's actually a story arc there

e: the way they developed Picard's character is a bit weird in retrospect because everyone remembers him as 'the Diplomat Captain' yet his backstory of how he got promoted is an absolutely metal 'my ship was getting blown up in a battle and half the crew were dead and I took charge of the shattered bridge and on the spot invented the battle tactic of charging the enemy point black and alpha striking him'. I almost want to see a do-over of TNG where they leant a bit more into the idea that Picard is getting the flagship precisely because he's seen his share of blood spilt and is at a point where he doesn't want to see any more (to counter-balance the officers who are all young go-getters who want to make a name for themselves with the Federation's most powerful ship).

Why can't she just be a kick-rear end ensign?

# ? Sep 17, 2020 23:51

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Snow Cone Capone posted:

e: the way they developed Picard's character is a bit weird in retrospect because everyone remembers him as 'the Diplomat Captain' yet his backstory of how he got promoted is an absolutely metal 'my ship was getting blown up in a battle and half the crew were dead and I took charge of the shattered bridge and on the spot invented the battle tactic of charging the enemy point black and alpha striking him'. I almost want to see a do-over of TNG where they leant a bit more into the idea that Picard is getting the flagship precisely because he's seen his share of blood spilt and is at a point where he doesn't want to see any more (to counter-balance the officers who are all young go-getters who want to make a name for themselves with the Federation's most powerful ship).

The whole thing is kind of weird anyway. He's promoted from helm to captain, but he was second officer while on the helm? Also he was first officer somewhere else, somehow?

# ? Sep 17, 2020 23:51

Tars Tarkas: Apr 13, 2003; Rock the Mok

A nasty woman, I think you should try is, Jess.

Heck in Star Trek, Kirk got promoted from cadet to second in command of the Enterprise, then captain, but maybe jumps like that only happen in alternate universes

# ? Sep 17, 2020 23:55

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

That was a weird-rear end situation where they decided to crew the half-finished flagship with cadets "because emergency".

# ? Sep 18, 2020 00:08

Snow Cone Capone: Jul 31, 2003

Arquinsiel posted:

The whole thing is kind of weird anyway. He's promoted from helm to captain, but he was second officer while on the helm? Also he was first officer somewhere else, somehow?

MemAlpha's got u covered fam

quote:

It is unlikely Picard was promoted directly to the rank of captain as he was assigned command of Stargazer, but more likely to the rank of commander before being promoted to the higher grade later. In accordance with naval rank tradition, one does not have to hold a captain's rank to command a vessel (most were actually commanded by officers holding the rank of commander), and anyone who is commanding is called 'Captain' regardless of rank.
Also while not explicitly mentioned, it is implied during Cmdr. Riker's first meeting with him that Picard had previously served as a first officer before being promoted to Captain, a position he would have served simultaneously to serving as the flight controller of the Stargazer. However, Q's explicit reference to Picard's taking charge of the Stargazer bridge when the captain was killed was in the context of his boldness in seizing opportunities; if he was the first officer, taking command would have been unremarkable, as it would have been expected of him. It is possible that he was not immediately assigned as captain of the vessel, but the incident impressed Starfleet Command enough for them to make him first officer, and he was awarded command some time later.
The length of Picard's command of the Stargazer is from the Star Trek: The Next Generation Writers'/Directors' Guide. The year he took command is derived from "The Battle", in which it is stated Picard lost the Stargazer in 2355.

# ? Sep 18, 2020 00:19

The_Doctor: Mar 29, 2007; "The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

The shot of the three people in Captain Pike wheelchairs with Hawaiian shirts draped over them killed me.

Also, one of Ramsey�s crew was called Pratchett (either the Trill or the one that looked like Jaylah�s species from ST Beyond), which made made me smile.

# ? Sep 18, 2020 00:30

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Snow Cone Capone posted:

MemAlpha's got u covered fam

That doesn't actually clear it up, it just sort of finds a way for him to have been his own first officer while still a Commander.

# ? Sep 18, 2020 00:36

Hispanic! At The Disco: Dec 25, 2011

I'm glad that for once, sending the dog to live on a farm turned out well.

Also, Division 14 ship:

It has an NX registry number :3:

# ? Sep 18, 2020 00:44

The_Doctor: Mar 29, 2007; "The entire history of this incarnation is one of temporal orbits, retcons, paradoxes, parallel time lines, reiterations, and divergences. How anyone can make head or tail of all this chaos, I don't know."

Hispanic! At The Disco posted:

Also, Division 14 ship:

It has an NX registry number

Yes! God this show is made by Trek nerds. I love it.

Also, the USS Osler, named after Sir William Osler, one of the four founding professors of Johns Hopkins Hospital.

# ? Sep 18, 2020 00:49

Snow Cone Capone: Jul 31, 2003

Arquinsiel posted:

That doesn't actually clear it up, it just sort of finds a way for him to have been his own first officer while still a Commander.

First/second officer aren't ranks, so a Commander can be either first or second officer, or also captain.

He was 2O on the Stargazer, but took command during the battle, at which point, because he was commanding the ship, was called "Captain" according to naval tradition, but his actual rank was probably Lieutenant Commander, with a first officer Commander (who presumably was also killed during the battle). Afterwards he was promoted to Commander and given the position of First Officer on the Stargazer, and then eventually promoted to Captain in both rank and positon.

e: it's confusing since the article talks about naval tradition, but IIRC when Riker or Crusher take the conn, the others don't refer to them as Captain (I might be wrong though)

Snow Cone Capone fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Sep 18, 2020

# ? Sep 18, 2020 01:08

Tars Tarkas: Apr 13, 2003; Rock the Mok

A nasty woman, I think you should try is, Jess.

The Nebula-class USS Prometheus was captained by a Lt. Commander (played by the actor who hated being Data's first officer in the Sela episodes, notably that TNG episode not only had Lt. Commander Data given a command but La Forge was the original choice, all temporary) Of course, the reason here is probably because Sisko was only a Commander at this point and having a captain on the ship would have outranked him and they'd be in charge.

Also since watching the animated series on Nickelodeon is one of my earliest Trek memories, seeing an Edosian was cool

# ? Sep 18, 2020 01:15

esperterra: Mar 24, 2010; SHINee's back

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# ? Sep 18, 2020 01:37

Snow Cone Capone: Jul 31, 2003