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gradenko_2000 posted:A 5900X scoring 652 points in single-threaded, and 9481 points in multi-threaded would be something like a 20% uplift in single-threaded performance, and a 14% uplift in multi-threaded performance relative to a 3900X
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Oct 1, 2020 15:25
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I think I'll sell my 3700x for a Zen 3 even though I probably don't need the performance yet.
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Oct 1, 2020 16:04
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I run a surprising amount of single core stuff, but the 3700x was neat and a good price so I went with it. A lot of games only use like 20-30% cpu with the gpu maxed anyway. Would it be higher utilization if the games were programmed better multi core? Or is the way it works "you are fine unless your CPU is at 100%"
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Oct 1, 2020 16:15
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So the latest ~credible rumors~ are an initial lineup of 5950X, 5900X, 5800X and 5600X to start, with a launch date of October 20th or maybe 27th (or split between those two dates for different models.) If you're waiting on an RTX 3070 that launches on October 15th to build a new gaming PC anyway, that timing isn't bad, especially since it might take weeks after launch day to get that 3070 anyway if the 3080 is any guide. My uneducated guess is that AMD CPUs will be easier to buy on launch than the RTX 3080 has been, unless you're gunning for a 5950X on day 1. e: Is there any indication 600 series chipsets are going to be A Thing anytime soon? The only rumors about it I can find reference... other rumors from back in January... and nothing solid since then. I kind of don't see what the 600 series would even add since Zen 3 is the last AM4 socket thing they're making anyway and they can't add DDR5 now AFAIK, and PCIe 4.0 is already doing virtually nothing vs. PCIe 3.0. sean10mm fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Oct 1, 2020 |
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Oct 1, 2020 16:20
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sean10mm posted:e: Is there any indication 600 series chipsets are going to be A Thing anytime soon? The only rumors about it I can find reference... other rumors from back in January... and nothing solid since then. I kind of don't see what the 600 series would even add since Zen 3 is the last AM4 socket thing they're making anyway and they can't add DDR5 now AFAIK, and PCIe 4.0 is already doing virtually nothing vs. PCIe 3.0. I'd say it's unlikely that we'll get a 6xx series motherboard, but we'll probably see refreshes from the motherboard manufacturers for A520 / B550 / X570 boards that are pre-loaded with a Zen 3-supporting BIOS so you don't have to worry about compatibility. It could be as simple as a "RYZEN 5000 READY!" sticker on boards manufactured in/after October, or an opportunity to sell new SKUs altogether, like GAMING MORTAR MAX or whatever. Quaint Quail Quilt posted:I run a surprising amount of single core stuff, but the 3700x was neat and a good price so I went with it. A lot of games only use like 20-30% cpu with the gpu maxed anyway. Even games that take good advantage of multi-threading are still going to "max out" against single-thread performance, just as a function of linear time, but lots of threads do make sure frame times are more consistent and you don't get stutters and you don't get dips. Lots of threads also helps if you have stuff going on in the background, as I imagine most of us do, even if you're not a streamer, but especially if you are.
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Oct 1, 2020 16:29
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e:fb
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Oct 1, 2020 16:34
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'd say it's unlikely that we'll get a 6xx series motherboard,
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Oct 1, 2020 16:35
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gradenko_2000 posted:I'd say it's unlikely that we'll get a 6xx series motherboard, but we'll probably see refreshes from the motherboard manufacturers for A520 / B550 / X570 boards that are pre-loaded with a Zen 3-supporting BIOS so you don't have to worry about compatibility. It could be as simple as a "RYZEN 5000 READY!" sticker on boards manufactured in/after October, or an opportunity to sell new SKUs altogether, like GAMING MORTAR MAX or whatever. I did notice that Gigabyte has some "B550 V2" boards on their website that aren't on sale anywhere. Wouldn't surprise me if that's an example of what you mean here and they'll drop when Zen 3 does. FWIW if I already had a 3700X I wouldn't replace it for a 5800X for gaming, every game for the next 5 years is going to be written for the detuned version of the 3700X in the consoles. The leaked +15-20% uplift going to the Zen 3 version is nice but not for $300+.
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Oct 1, 2020 16:46
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If you can build something for someone else and have the money it could be worth it, but they'd need that much power for it to make sense, and at that point you might as well just build an entirely new computer and give them your current setup. There's certainly exceptions (like they already have an AM4 system).
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Oct 1, 2020 16:55
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sean10mm posted:FWIW if I already had a 3700X I wouldn't replace it for a 5800X for gaming, every game for the next 5 years is going to be written for the detuned version of the 3700X in the consoles. The leaked +15-20% uplift going to the Zen 3 version is nice but not for $300+. Pshhh! You mean you won't run WoW max settings and with a locked 120 FPS???? Might as well settle for console gaming then! Atleast that will be my excuse when I waste the money to upgrade.
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Oct 1, 2020 17:24
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Since I've got an X370 board I'm not gonna do a full rebuild for Zen 3, but I'm excited for 3700X's to be like $200 by the end of the year.
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Oct 1, 2020 17:25
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Klyith posted:Since I've got an X370 board I'm not gonna do a full rebuild for Zen 3, but I'm excited for 3700X's to be like $200 by the end of the year. AMD has been great at dropping prices faster than the secondary market. At least for zen1/zen+. With zen2 I'm not so sure that will be the case.
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Oct 1, 2020 17:33
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Klyith posted:Since I've got an X370 board I'm not gonna do a full rebuild for Zen 3, but I'm excited for 3700X's to be like $200 by the end of the year. B350, but same.
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Oct 1, 2020 17:33
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MikeC posted:Pshhh! You mean you won't run WoW max settings and with a locked 120 FPS???? Might as well settle for console gaming then! Doesn't WoW run on 1.5 second long ticks? What does getting over like 20FPS do for you? I'm sure it looks smooth but it wont help your skill ceiling at all.
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Oct 1, 2020 17:38
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Can someone explain these zen 3 leaks to me like I am 5 years old? All the reactions on twitter vary from what I interpret to be "AMD has a dud" to "impressive" so now I don't know what to think. Will it help me get more frames from my "totally gonna be successfully ordered any day now, just you watch" 3080?
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Oct 1, 2020 17:48
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"Wait for benchmarks" What's your current cpu?
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Oct 1, 2020 17:53
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Lol if those benchmarks are real then AMD will finally be better at Intel in literally every department. Mobile Desktop Gaming Servers The only thing they won't be as good as Intel is supply.
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Oct 1, 2020 17:56
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pixaal posted:Doesn't WoW run on 1.5 second long ticks? What does getting over like 20FPS do for you? I'm sure it looks smooth but it wont help your skill ceiling at all. ratbert90 posted:The only thing they won't be as good as Intel is supply. Not saying AMD isn't also having supply issues, but their issues are due to demand far exceeding expectations while Intel's are due to a feedback loop of "engineering perpetually missed the target for 5+ years and management committed to that not happening so now we can't even meet our expected demand" Khorne fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Oct 1, 2020 |
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Oct 1, 2020 17:58
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Zen+ to Zen2 was a huge jump, because there were a bunch of teething issues Zen+ had to deal with like CCX latency and bad optimization for Source games and stuff like that, but I'm sure AMD will find something to improve between Zen2 and 3 (or whatever the hell they call it). Worst case scenario, we'll get some "incremental" general performance improvement across the board. I don't know if there are any major performance bottlenecks to really fix in the same way at this point. Some people say there might be something on-chip to handle thread scheduling instead of depending on Windows for it, but other than that we don't really know.
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Oct 1, 2020 18:09
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Khorne posted:Not saying AMD isn't also having supply issues, but their issues are due to demand far exceeding expectations while Intel's are due to a feedback loop of "engineering perpetually missed the target for 5+ years and management committed to that not happening so now we can't even meet our expected demand" AMD is in the same boat, they've had to cancel orders that they'd already allocated (accepted) due to supply shortages. I'm sure demand is high, that is a true statement in a vacuum, but if it was just high demand they wouldn't be cancelling orders they already agreed to, there's clearly some supply issues as well. https://videocardz.com/newz/xmg-facing-serious-amd-ryzen-7-4800h-renoir-cpu-shortage edit: actually now delayed all the way into november, so they are currently 3 months behind their expected production quotas. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Oct 1, 2020 |
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Oct 1, 2020 18:23
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ratbert90 posted:Lol if those benchmarks are real then AMD will finally be better at Intel in literally every department. Isn’t Ashes a bit of an outlier as far as gaming benchmarks go re: multithreading?
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Oct 1, 2020 18:37
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Broose posted:Can someone explain these zen 3 leaks to me like I am 5 years old? All the reactions on twitter vary from what I interpret to be "AMD has a dud" to "impressive" so now I don't know what to think. It's hard to tell much, but it seems that we're looking at a very healthy 20-26% boost in single threaded performance, due to (unknown reasons). Could be higher single core boost clocks, could be larger 32mb unified L3 cache, could be other unknown stuff. It's probably at least largely down to single thread boost performance, because the full multi-core benches linked aren't as large an increase. I don't think there's any way you could call that a dud, given that they're operating on the same process as the previous chips, so they don't suddenly have a far higher power budget to play with.
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Oct 1, 2020 18:48
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Deuce posted:Isnt Ashes a bit of an outlier as far as gaming benchmarks go re: multithreading? If the difference is truly 10% - 15%~ more in single-core then that closes the gap with the i9's completely.
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Oct 1, 2020 18:54
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ufarn posted:Zen+ to Zen2 was a huge jump, because there were a bunch of teething issues Zen+ had to deal with like CCX latency and bad optimization for Source games and stuff like that, but I'm sure AMD will find something to improve between Zen2 and 3 (or whatever the hell they call it). I thought that it was revealed a while ago that zen 3 would be focused on unifying the L3 cache between all the cores. Though that might have been speculation. From what I've read that sounds like a good thing since a lot of latency is introduced when stuff is on a different chiplet is needed as of now. I don't know, I'm just regurgitating stuff I've read here. Kinda confused on how they would manage that without slowing everything down to the slowest speed since its physically separated due to chiplets.
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Oct 1, 2020 18:54
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Broose posted:I thought that it was revealed a while ago that zen 3 would be focused on unifying the L3 cache between all the cores. Though that might have been speculation. It's based on this:  Zen2 and Zen3 chiplets are both 8 cores a pop. Zen2's chiplet split the 32mb of cache between each group of 4 cores even on the same chiplet, so that did lead to the latency jumps between core groups. Zen 3 has straight up 32mb cache for every core on the chiplet. Chiplet to chiplet will still be slower though.
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Oct 1, 2020 19:12
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Broose posted:Can someone explain these zen 3 leaks to me like I am 5 years old? All the reactions on twitter vary from what I interpret to be "AMD has a dud" to "impressive" so now I don't know what to think. tl,dr: the 5900X is kicking the gently caress out of everything in 2 leaked benchmarks. If they're not faked, and if they represent its performance in general, then Intel is super turbo hellfucked. How much it will help you depends on what your current CPU is and the resolution you play at. The higher the resolution you play at, the less small differences in CPU performance matter because the graphics card is mostly your limiting factor. e: The only time an older CPU really screws you in newer games is if you have a 4 core/4 thread CPU like the older Intel i5 models, because games are starting to be more multithreaded and want at least 8 threads. It's what's making me prepare to dump my i5-6600K.
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Oct 1, 2020 19:16
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Rocket Lake will finally bring some IPC gains for Intel and was supposed to come out late 2020/early 2021, but I havent seen a single leak or whisper about it coming soon sooooo Although I do worry about the demand Zen3 is gonna have. If its anything like the 3080 demand, its gonna be a mess
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Oct 1, 2020 19:27
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I think we can reasonably assume it will be bad/high demand, but not really to the level of insane demand the 3080s have. We're not coming off a previous generation of CPUs that were really lack luster, I think a ton of people upgraded to Zen 3 chips vs a relatively far larger number of people that passed on upgrading to 20xx series nvidia cards. The very highest end 12/16c models will probably be hard to buy for a bit but the 8 cores should be pretty plentiful.
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Oct 1, 2020 19:58
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Cygni posted:Rocket Lake will finally bring some IPC gains for Intel and was supposed to come out late 2020/early 2021, but I havent seen a single leak or whisper about it coming soon sooooo there have been a few leaks/benchmarks, seems to be around a 15-20% IPC gain and ESs are clocked at 5 GHz. https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-rocket-lake-8c-16t-cpu-spotted-with-5-0-ghz-boost https://hothardware.com/news/intel-rocket-lake-s-8-core-16-thread-benchmarks-leak At this point it's looking unlikely to be this year but also probably not too far into next year, maybe as soon as January and definitely sometime in Q1 I'd think. Intel has confirmed Alder Lake-S is still on track for 2H 2021 so they aren't going to drag their feet on it too much. Deuce posted:Isn’t Ashes a bit of an outlier as far as gaming benchmarks go re: multithreading? ashes is just an outlier in general, it's not so much that it's an outlier in multithreading but just that very few games scale the same way in general in terms of latency tolerance, it's like the cinebench of games. And virtually nobody actually plays ashes for the sake of playing ashes, it's just basically a synthetic benchmark. There is a reason it's been more or less dropped from almost all test suites, it's pretty funny to see it coming back like it's 2017 again. also, the "computed fps" thing actually isn't real framerate, it's what the game thinks the framerate could have been if the GPU bottleneck was removed, and I don't really know how accurate that is. however, games could also be something that benefits more from the CCX change than the "average" workload does. AMD has implied the "average" will be 10-15%, which would finally put it functionally on par with the various Skylakes. If games are closer to 25-30% like shown in Ashes, then that would probably put it nipping at the heels (within 5%) of Rocket Lake. Price is of course the wildcard, if this thing is really basically the fastest and most efficient thing on the market then there's nothing stopping AMD from moving to Intel level pricing on them too. Why not, they're better than Intel, shouldn't they at least charge as much? They don't want to be the "cheap" brand forever. I pretty much expect it to be a functional tie with Comet Lake, it will either tie it up or beat Intel by an inconsequential amount (smaller than Intel currently leads AMD, which everyone says is basically nothing). Then Rocket Lake will leapfrog that. My gut suspicion is that Ashes is probably the absolute best-case scenario - which is why that benchmark in particular is being leaked after all the reviewers dropping it years ago. That's AMD starting to build hype. Even if other games are getting better-than-normal gains it'll be more like 20% instead of 30% probably. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Oct 1, 2020 |
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Oct 1, 2020 20:17
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Gwaihir posted:I think we can reasonably assume it will be bad/high demand, but not really to the level of insane demand the 3080s have. We're not coming off a previous generation of CPUs that were really lack luster, I think a ton of people upgraded to Zen 3 chips vs a relatively far larger number of people that passed on upgrading to 20xx series nvidia cards. The very highest end 12/16c models will probably be hard to buy for a bit but the 8 cores should be pretty plentiful. I think the chiplet mechanism really helps binning. With a chiplet being as small as it is, and with the same chiplet shared across both enterprise and consumer, they can churn out a lot of volume on that one die, yield highly, and guarantee they can sell it all. I would probably expect it to be broadly similar to the Zen2 launch. It will probably still sell out on launch day but it won't be particularly hard to get one within a month or two if you want. You will take noticeably worse silicon quality if you buy near launch rather than 6 months later or whatever (this has been a feature of basically every Zen generation), as well as getting to experience the thrills of launch-day AGESA/BIOS/driver bugs. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Oct 1, 2020 |
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Oct 1, 2020 20:38
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Paul MaudDib posted:I think the chiplet mechanism really helps binning. With a chiplet being as small as it is, and with the same chiplet shared across both enterprise and consumer, they can churn out a lot of volume on that one die, yield highly, and guarantee they can sell it all. Yeah, for sure, it gives them just an insane advantage putting together the larger chips. Especially vs a conventional chip, with a defect in, say, the DDR4 controller, or other miscellaneous IO hardware still gets you an entirely dead die, but on Zen there's no real analogue. The IO die is on a far cheaper larger process so you're mitigating a lot of the defect rate and are able to harvest as many functional core chiplets as possible.
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Oct 1, 2020 21:11
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Looking like this is a 2 sku launch. 5800X and 5900X only given that we have heard absolutely no details on anything other than that. Looks like they intend to keep the 3600 and the 3700X as relevant parts into Q1 next year as the midrange budget options. Predict big markups in price on Zen 3
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Oct 1, 2020 23:01
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I'm really looking to see what is going on with AMD about a year from now. See how the Zen 3 chips play out and if they do a Zen 3+ respin of some sort.
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Oct 1, 2020 23:28
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Zen 3 + Nvidia 3xxx series and HDMI 2.1 finally being a thing, might be a time for a whole new rig finally.
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Oct 2, 2020 01:19
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MikeC posted:Looking like this is a 2 sku launch. 5800X and 5900X only given that we have heard absolutely no details on anything other than that. Looks like they intend to keep the 3600 and the 3700X as relevant parts into Q1 next year as the midrange budget options. Predict big markups in price on Zen 3 The only source I have seen for Zen 3 big price hike rumors is... you. I also saw at least one source say it would be a 4 sku launch going down to 5600X and up to 5950X. E: but we're all still just talking rumors vs rumors so  , especially since there have been so few Zen 3 leaks in general.E2: the least stupid intel 10th gen is the i5 10600k so I would think they would want to kick that in the nuts too. sean10mm fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Oct 2, 2020 |
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Oct 2, 2020 01:26
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CaptainSarcastic posted:I'm really looking to see what is going on with AMD about a year from now. See how the Zen 3 chips play out and if they do a Zen 3+ respin of some sort. Leaked roadmaps have shown Zen 3 based desktop CPUs codenamed Warhol appearing mid 2021. No indication wether that will be an actual respin or just late production high silicon quality chips like the 3x00XTs.
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Oct 2, 2020 01:34
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sean10mm posted:E2: the least stupid intel 10th gen is the i5 10600k so I would think they would want to kick that in the nuts too. the least stupid 10th gen is an 8700K imo. Not worth waiting 3 years for $100 off. But to be serious Newegg has the 10700 today for $300 and that seems like a solid deal. Put it on a K board and you get memory overclocking, and it's already a 4.6 GHz all-core, basically a stock 9900K minus 100 MHz for $300. It's too late to be doing Comet Lake builds though, this price a year ago might have made a difference. really though the entire 10th gen was crippled by the fact that it's the very last iteration of Skylake and is about to be replaced by two architectures that may be 10-20% faster, have PCIe 4.0 support with dedicated NVMe lanes for DirectStorage, etc. This is getting into the stretch where it's time to wait and see for another couple months to see what the new stuff has to offer. If you didn't bite at skylake the third or fourth time... probably not worth it the fifth. (yes, fifth) Or wait for the DDR5 platforms - Alder Lake and Zen4 are both supposedly coming about a year from now. DDR5 is supposedly a fairly substantial jump compared to previous memory standard iterations, it will start at like 5500 MT/s. I dunno about Alder Lake and it's big.LITTLE on the desktop, but it does claim big IPC improvements again. And AMD will probably stay with a more conventional core in case Intel flops (that's going to be a weird one for sure), or do some chiplet mix-n-match. If you can hold on until the second gen DDR5 platforms you'll get more stable second-gen memory controllers and the benefit of seeing how all the big.LITTLE and stuff shakes out. There's always something better coming in 6 months but I wouldn't take comet lake over waiting for zen3 and rocket lake - or discount zen2 depending on how prices shake out. Then wait for second-gen ddr5. Or, skip Zen3/Rocket Lake and wait for DDR5, if you can wait. But Comet Lake is the last uarch before a big shakeup, don't overpay for it now. AMD really has to beat themselves more than anything though. If they get too nuts on price they lose people who might otherwise have talked themselves into an upgrade. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Oct 2, 2020 |
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Oct 2, 2020 01:49
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I think Zen 3 will mostly benefit from how a zillion people with old 4 core i5s are finally having problems with games wanting more cores.
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Oct 2, 2020 02:00
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My thinking is that I'll do a GPU upgrade before the year's end, and then a CPU upgrade in 2021.
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Oct 2, 2020 02:17
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Is there a compelling reason to upgrade from a 3700 based on current info? I can easily afford it but I don’t know if it’s a wise decision.
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Oct 2, 2020 03:53
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