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Arsenic Lupin posted:Nearly every neuro I've ever had, and I'm into double digits, has had migraines. Sometimes you go into a field because "wow, this sucks, let's make it better for other people." it makes sense! but psych problems have a solid chance of turning you into a lil poo poo like freud
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Sep 28, 2020 22:32
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Gnoman posted:Most of Freud's "theories" were preconceptions. His notion that sex was at the root of everything was a hobbyhorse before he did any real study, much of his papers are based on therapy sessions that provably never happened, and the sessions he did do were almost invariably with very sexually repressed people. All of that is true. His accomplishment is setting up psychology as a science at all, so 50 years later the third generation psychologists could start getting things right. Without psychology your options were a neurologist for brain problems or religious councillor for emotional problems. I doubt we'd be in a better position today if counselling had remained mainly the job of ministers and bartenders. Ministers and bartenders do work well for some people, but they have a limited range of solutions to offer.
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Sep 28, 2020 23:51
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There were others looking into the mind at the time. One of them would probably fathered the science on firmer ground.
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Sep 29, 2020 00:09
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Gnoman posted:There were others looking into the mind at the time. One of them would probably fathered the science on firmer ground. to the best of my knowledge all of them to a man were basically as bad as freud for example, he was only marginally racist compared to some of these other fucks. like a 7/10 by our standards and a 2/10 by his and these fucks are hitting racism levels not possible in modern society bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Sep 29, 2020 |
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Sep 29, 2020 00:51
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all of our rocketry comes from science done by literal actual nazis. whats your point here
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Sep 29, 2020 01:09
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nazis also made the first jet plane. should we scrap all modern planes?
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Sep 29, 2020 01:10
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rocket science doesnt involve judgment of human beings but psych does. so it was deec that we had the open minded jew and not any of the protonazi fuckers, but it wouldve been a fuckup either way
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Sep 29, 2020 01:13
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Miss Broccoli posted:all of our rocketry comes from science done by literal actual nazis. whats your point here That's not entirely true. There were plenty of home grown rocket scientists. It's just that paperclip types just were given all the budget and power
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Sep 29, 2020 01:17
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bob dobbs is dead posted:rocket science doesnt involve judgment of human beings but psych does. so it was deec that we had the open minded jew and not any of the protonazi fuckers, but it wouldve been a fuckup either way modern psychology is not about judgement. its about healing.
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Sep 29, 2020 01:21
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Miss Broccoli posted:modern psychology is not about judgement. its about healing.
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Sep 29, 2020 01:38
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Miss Broccoli posted:modern psychology is not about judgement. its about healing. we still have involuntary commitment, we just dont use it on lots of peeps what else are we gonna do when someone kills 25 dudes and eats their dicks or something
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Sep 29, 2020 01:48
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ikanreed posted:That's not entirely true. There were plenty of home grown rocket scientists. It's just that paperclip types just were given all the budget and power The actual father of rocketry was a literal gently caress wizard that was cuckolded by the founder of Scientology; the government looked hard at Jack Parsons and thought the nazi that copied off his notes was a better idea. (We were better off with the gently caress wizard.)
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Sep 29, 2020 05:49
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Tendales posted:The actual father of rocketry was a literal gently caress wizard that was cuckolded by the founder of Scientology; the government looked hard at Jack Parsons and thought the nazi that copied off his notes was a better idea. So much poo poo in history that if you put it in a movie, no one would believe it. bob dobbs is dead posted:to the best of my knowledge all of them to a man were basically as bad as freud That explains a lot. I'm guessing actual phrenology was involved.
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Sep 29, 2020 06:05
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Tendales posted:The actual father of rocketry was a literal gently caress wizard that was cuckolded by the founder of Scientology; the government looked hard at Jack Parsons and thought the nazi that copied off his notes was a better idea. The ACTUAL father of Rocketry wanted to colonise space so there was room for all the dead people from all of human history Science was definitely going to resurrect, but he was Russian
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Sep 29, 2020 08:12
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Ichabod Sexbeast posted:The ACTUAL father of Rocketry wanted to colonise space so there was room for all the dead people from all of human history Science was definitely going to resurrect, but he was Russian Now this is a sci-fi plot I'd watch.
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Sep 29, 2020 08:22
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Ichabod Sexbeast posted:The ACTUAL father of Rocketry wanted to colonise space so there was room for all the dead people from all of human history Science was definitely going to resurrect, but he was Russian I've always thought of Tsiolkovsy as more of a crazy grand-uncle of rocketry, but fair enough
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Sep 29, 2020 08:47
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We still use his equation! Rocketry has a LOT of dads, and presumably a lot of puns and barbecues were involved in its childhood, before the war crime years
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Sep 29, 2020 20:19
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Woke up to a dozen essays of texts of... nothing far as I can tell? Haven't bothered to read anything beyond the first two or three, but it's basically my biological father angsting a bunch of Facebook-ish emo vagueposts in my direction about life and regret and whatnot and I am just... not at all invested in any way whatsoever in this. I don't even know what spurred this all of a sudden and I can't say that I care. I'm not even mad. It's like getting drunk texts from exes or old high school friends in the middle of the night. They havent been a part of your life for so long that there is no significance in anything they have to say.
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Sep 29, 2020 21:15
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I remember learning about Freud's theories through the lens of literary analysis, and even then I thought it seemed a little stupid. He wrote a very long, probably coke-fueled essay about how the fear of eye injuries and being buried alive have the same roots, iirc. I kind of dug (har) the literary symbolism of being buried alive as being like an inverse of the womb but I didn't really understand the eye stuff. Also I'm pretty sure he figured a way to work in his daddy issues (I mean everyone else's daddy issues that everyone definitely has am I right folks!!!) into his text but I read ten years ago and skimmed most of it because I had like seven other readings to do that week. Gotta learn about how the Medium is the Message, Freud!! Learn how to summarize maybe!!! I'm enjoying the brief rocket science derail. Tell me more about science weirds.
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Oct 1, 2020 00:27
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Freud was not a literary man, which means he was a terrible writer, and this is very unfortunate because basically the only place Freud comes up with any degree of taking his ideas seriously anymore is literary studies, because apparently the humanities were slow to get the memo that we don't really believe Freud anymore. I might have some Freud to read for Monday that I'm very salty about.
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Oct 1, 2020 16:25
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Why are people always ragging on Freud? Of course women were all traumatized by seeing our father's penises as children and realizing we didn't have penises of our own. A penis is a very normal thing for a cis woman to want to have. And so, of course, we all crave the next best thing: a baby. Babies are like penises because
Pththya-lyi fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Oct 1, 2020 |
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Oct 1, 2020 17:23
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Freud also egged one of his friends on in permanently disfiguring a woman with quack surgery and encouraged him to continue burning out the insides of people's noses afterward. He even told the woman the nose bleeds she suffered from for the rest of her life were the result of her hysterical longing for affection rather than a horribly botched surgery.
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Oct 1, 2020 17:29
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RoboRodent posted:Freud was not a literary man, which means he was a terrible writer, and this is very unfortunate because basically the only place Freud comes up with any degree of taking his ideas seriously anymore is literary studies, because apparently the humanities were slow to get the memo that we don't really believe Freud anymore. Back in college, I was doing child development research and also majoring in English, so I thought it would be fun to take an English seminar about Freud's works. Wouldn't it be cool to learn the history of child psychology before Piaget? I lasted two weeks before the professor pulled me aside and said that maybe the course wasn't for me. I ended up dropping it, probably to the relief of everyone.
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Oct 1, 2020 21:06
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Pththya-lyi posted:Why are people always ragging on Freud? Of course women were all traumatized by seeing our father's penises as children and realizing we didn't have penises of our own. A penis is a very normal thing for a cis woman to want to have. And so, of course, we all crave the next best thing: a baby. Babies are like penises because Terrible Opinions posted:Freud also egged one of his friends on in permanently disfiguring a woman with quack surgery and encouraged him to continue burning out the insides of people's noses afterward. He even told the woman the nose bleeds she suffered from for the rest of her life were the result of her hysterical longing for affection rather than a horribly botched surgery.  Are there any good things Freud did with his life? At all?
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Oct 1, 2020 22:53
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Tin Can Hit Man posted:Woke up to a dozen essays of texts of... nothing far as I can tell? Haven't bothered to read anything beyond the first two or three, but it's basically my biological father angsting a bunch of Facebook-ish emo vagueposts in my direction about life and regret and whatnot and I am just... not at all invested in any way whatsoever in this. I found this online today and it seems very appropriate: quote:Your mom has some serious emotional disregulation problems. Essentially she never learned to manage her own emotions, things like self-soothing, so you became the tool or the outlet for her to manage her emotions. It is extremely common when you have a parent with emotional disregulation problems that you will also have emotional disregulation problems yourself. You can't learn basic regulation skills because you don't have a parent that can teach them to you. It's that simple. The out of control, emotional spinning, can't concentrate feeling you have now --- that's what I am talking about. I think you should strongly consider how much of your mental health problems are actually because of your mom - either because of the pressure she brings to your life or the poor coping skills she would have taught you over the course of your life.
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Oct 1, 2020 23:03
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For real. Not answering that text, or reading the rest of their emo bs. But all I can think anytime it comes to mind is "man... just... get help"
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Oct 2, 2020 04:36
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Sisal Two-Step posted:I remember learning about Freud's theories through the lens of literary analysis, and even then I thought it seemed a little stupid. He wrote a very long, probably coke-fueled essay about how the fear of eye injuries and being buried alive have the same roots, iirc. I kind of dug (har) the literary symbolism of being buried alive as being like an inverse of the womb but I didn't really understand the eye stuff. Also I'm pretty sure he figured a way to work in his daddy issues (I mean everyone else's daddy issues that everyone definitely has am I right folks!!!) into his text but I read ten years ago and skimmed most of it because I had like seven other readings to do that week. Gotta learn about how the Medium is the Message, Freud!! Learn how to summarize maybe!!! The thing I always keep in mind when reading/discussing the writings of Freud is that he asked the right questions, it's just the answers he came up with for his questions are...really dumb. Also, his nephew is basically the father of the modern marketing and was also a massive rear end in a top hat, just like his uncle. Whenever you hear a Fox News anchor screaming angry poo poo, you have him to thank for the realization that emotion is a far more powerful seller of goods (and by extensions, ideology) than any kind of logic.
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Oct 2, 2020 04:53
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I remember a story from college told alongside the famous tale of Phineas Gage of a person who complained of headaches and was found to have a nail (I think?) sticking out of their head. Like really obviously sticking out of they head. They had an accident that resulted in a foreign object piercing their brain in just the right way that the nail in their head prevented them from noticing the nail in their head. They could notice the symptom of persistent headaches, but not the obvious cause of a nail protruding from their skull. (Unfortunately google couldn't find this story for me, because there are sooooo many stories of dudes turning up with nails and rods through their heads. It just keeps happening.) I think sometimes personality disorders are a lot like that nail. The personality disorder in their brain prevents them from seeing the personality disorder in their brain. They can see the symptom that almost all of their relationships keep turning to poo poo, but since they can't hold the idea that they have a problem in their minds, they instead come up with the reasonable explanation that everyone around them is crazy or mean.
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Oct 2, 2020 05:07
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Facebook Aunt posted:I think sometimes personality disorders are a lot like that nail. The personality disorder in their brain prevents them from seeing the personality disorder in their brain. In college I majored in psych (and I'm sure I heard this from someone else) I used to refer to that as "How can I fix the head I got with the head I got" (also see "If I have a broken hammer I can't use that same hammer to fix itself.")
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Oct 2, 2020 05:16
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Is it possible that Freud got all this poo poo wrong because he was the first one to try and do it?
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Oct 2, 2020 05:58
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I would blow Dane Cook posted:Is it possible that Freud got all this poo poo wrong because he was the first one to try and do it? No he was massive rear end in a top hat on top of being a pioneer
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Oct 2, 2020 06:36
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I would blow Dane Cook posted:Is it possible that Freud got all this poo poo wrong because he was the first one to try and do it? It's like how racist archeologists kept finding the remains of advanced civilizations in Africa, South America, Norther America, etc and decided that this was evidence of white people who just got killed off by the current inhabitants. When those inhabitants were actually direct descendants of those same civilizations after being hosed up by disasters both natural and man made. Terrible Opinions fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Oct 2, 2020 |
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Oct 2, 2020 06:39
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Miss Broccoli posted:No he was massive rear end in a top hat on top of being a pioneer but the pool of possible pioneers was like 100% assholes so the counterfactual is not any better psych problems turn you into a lil poo poo
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Oct 2, 2020 06:44
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Facebook Aunt posted:I think sometimes personality disorders are a lot like that nail. The personality disorder in their brain prevents them from seeing the personality disorder in their brain. I've been doing a lot of work on myself recently, and in a lot of the literature I'm reading, this phenomenon has been summarized as "denial." Like, denial is a woo woo therapy buzzword or whatever, but when you really think about the depths to which someone can feel their shortcomings and inadequacies but not recognize them, or ignore them, distract themselves or deflect them towards others, it really paints an illuminating picture of almost every interaction you have with another human being. Radical self-acceptance and healing emotional wounds can only happen when you're willing to address whatever you're denying, and that's incredibly hard for most people.
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Oct 2, 2020 14:32
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Terrible Opinions posted:Well his first theory that early modern to modern Austria was overrun with pedophiles and that this caused mental disorders in kids was 100% right. It's just that when he saw and documented this evidence it clashed with his world view and biases too much to accept. So he revised it and twisted horrible logic knocks to explain how all this abuse was imagined by children who really wanted it. Archaeology is a good analogy for Freud, because while modern archaeology wouldn't exist without the pioneers, the pioneers were also massive grave-robbing, racist, colonial assholes whose biased conclusions continue to resonate through popular culture and academia to this day, loving up people's perceptions of the past & of human nature in general, usually in massively racist ways. I'm not massively inclined to respect them purely for founding the discipline or inventing excavation because the damage they did is still ongoing, and I feel a similar way about Freud. He doesn't get a pass for the dark poo poo he did and promoted - often against the evidence he himself was gathering, because it didn't fit his biases - especially wrt women and children, anymore than Karl Mauch does for declaring black people could never have built Great Zimbabwe just because he pioneered some of the geological discovery techniques archaeology still uses today, you know?
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Oct 2, 2020 17:18
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Honestly, the whole concept of 'lay back, relax, and talk about how you feel about things' is still a massive step up from the prevailing mainstream attitude towards emotions. The Freudian psyche does make for fun writing, though, mostly because boiling down any character to base concepts is a great excuse to basically make dialogue into an essay about them. I found the Real Life Comics take on that where the author avatar faces their own realisation of being trans interesting; it casts the id as sympathetic trying to make her voice heard and the superego as an unhelpful frat boy representing societal indoctrination. Ghost Leviathan fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Oct 2, 2020 |
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Oct 2, 2020 17:28
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Sisal Two-Step posted:I'm enjoying the brief rocket science derail. Tell me more about science weirds. Jack Parsons was one of the founders of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) at Caltech, which did early work on rockets. Before that, he and a few others were building their own small rockets (and often failing to launch them). He was also really into Thelema, Aleister Crowley's new religion, and joined the OTO. He did magic rituals, even to help with the rockets. L. Ron Hubbard got involved with Jack's group and helped him try to summon the goddess Babalon. Along the way though, Lron stole Jack's wife and money, and went on to start Scientology. If you want the long version, go read his wikipedia page or listen to this excellent three part series from the Unexplained podcast. The man was a national treasure and is a personal hero to me. vortmax fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Oct 2, 2020 |
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Oct 2, 2020 19:29
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vortmax posted:The short version: This was also an excellent segment on Drunk History.
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Oct 2, 2020 19:37
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there's a character in The Crying of Lot 49 that is absolutely supposed to be Jack Parsons
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Oct 2, 2020 21:21
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bob dobbs is dead posted:we still have involuntary commitment, we just dont use it on lots of peeps if you want to leave early, they can change it to involuntary if they really want because they can put that down as resisting treatment. it's a formality at best where rubber meets the road
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Oct 3, 2020 03:31
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