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let duvalie smooch!!!!
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Oct 24, 2020 12:06
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I mean we know the broad outline of the plan is to get all 7 of the Sept-Terrions. For me, at least, the logical assumption is that they all have some extra function when combined together, and they plan to use all of the Sept-Terrions to (rule the continent/save the world from their equivalent of Satan/stop an alien invasion/kill Aidos and replace her)
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Oct 24, 2020 12:13
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Clarste posted:For what it's worth I cannot imagine any kind of explanation of Ouroboros' plans that would satisfying. It's sort of clear by now that they exist entirely to be mysterious villains and any kind of understandable motivation is a distant afterthought. Kinda already feels that way halfway into SC. But I don't think that's a huge issue? There's a certain kind of charisma that comes with being mysterious and eccentric and incomprehensible and most of the members seem pretty fun so far. Don't know if the series keeps it up but as long as the Enforcers and all stay fairly good I think i'll probably be cool with the society.
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Oct 24, 2020 12:18
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I can't wait until it's revealed that the grandmaster is the wandering musician from the first two cold steel games
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Oct 24, 2020 12:33
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Kinda already feels that way halfway into SC. But I don't think that's a huge issue? There's a certain kind of charisma that comes with being mysterious and eccentric and incomprehensible and most of the members seem pretty fun so far. Don't know if the series keeps it up but as long as the Enforcers and all stay fairly good I think i'll probably be cool with the society. If anything, the problem is that they become too cool and fun so it's even harder to believe that they'd be following along with some dumb plan that clearly makes no sense. Like, we've already reached a point where it seems like they'd all be best buds with the good guys if not for the fact that they happen to be with Ouroboros.
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Oct 24, 2020 12:44
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Clarste posted:If anything, the problem is that they become too cool and fun so it's even harder to believe that they'd be following along with some dumb plan that clearly makes no sense. Like, we've already reached a point where it seems like they'd all be best buds with the good guys if not for the fact that they happen to be with Ouroboros. This is it. It's reached the point where we have a huge cast of villains that have all had a bunch of screentime each but we still don't know what, if anything, the majority of them actually stand for or believe in. But we have to fight them over and over again anyway. It's immensely unsatisfying.
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Oct 24, 2020 13:10
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Just make an spinoff starring Duvalie.
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Oct 24, 2020 13:29
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Hey now, we got to hear what Walter and Luciola were fighting for... ...maybe it's better if things stay a mystery.
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Oct 24, 2020 14:05
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Bland posted:This is it. It's reached the point where we have a huge cast of villains that have all had a bunch of screentime each but we still don't know what, if anything, the majority of them actually stand for or believe in. But we have to fight them over and over again anyway. It's immensely unsatisfying.
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Oct 24, 2020 15:06
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SyntheticPolygon posted:The forced rotations are way cool though!  I absolutely adore this. I loved it in Gagharv, I love it Sky.Ouroboros' plan is intricately connected to the state of the world. Most of the longrunning webnovels I've read all feature similar things as hooks, several of them have pulled a very special one that I'm willing to bet is being used in Trails; Another world is threatening this world, and in order to defend itself, this world has started expending energy in attempt to make heroes who can defend it. Ouroboros could have in every stage done the plans more secretly, they want to be opposed, they want people to grow while trying to stop them. Also we know what most members of Ouroboros wants, they all stand for either a person they love or a concept they value, such as combat or trolling. Only exceptions are ones who just started recently and Vita and Arianrhod, we never got an explanation with them, I hope we get it in 4, which should show up today.
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Oct 24, 2020 15:06
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Extremely minor CS3/4 spoilers about characters from older games. the Agate/Tita thing is bar none one of the creepiest loving things in a video game. The fact the game makes a point of pointing out she is half his age and yet literally loving everybody is cheering Agate on is goddamn horrifying. I have no idea why Trails is so obsessed with sisterfucking (not related by blood) but the Tita and Agate thing is by far the creepiest of the lot.
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Oct 24, 2020 15:08
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ImpAtom posted:Extremely minor CS3/4 spoilers about characters from older games. Yeah this was the worst part of Sky by far and continues to be the worst part of Steel.
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Oct 24, 2020 15:12
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ImpAtom posted:Extremely minor CS3/4 spoilers about characters from older games.
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Oct 24, 2020 15:15
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Endorph posted:i think we know why most of the ouroboros members are with ouroboros? its just that most of them are either 'because they like chaos' or 'they are close to another ouroboros member' I guess the thing is I don't consider "because it's fun lol" to be a real motivation. Maybe if it was just the one character like that and there was more to them beyond that then it would be fine, but when it describes a significant proportion of your rogue's gallery it feels like a cop out to avoid having to write an actual character and not just a character design with an attitude.
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Oct 24, 2020 15:20
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I still like Agate, I still like Tita. But yeah, everyone agrees thats weird and we just ignore it. I'm with Endorph, just make it a finished state and be done with it.
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Oct 24, 2020 15:22
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https://twitter.com/ryojiirise/status/1320024833564946433/photo/1
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Oct 24, 2020 17:00
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Mr. Fortitude posted:Honestly, the other issue I have with CS4 though this is very much personal opinion is that I think the writing and world building isn't very good in it. I won't go too deep into spoilers but a lot of the mysteries being built from as far back as Sky are dealt with in a way which feels like a Deus ex Machina instead of given any satisfying explanation. It probably won't bother you if you're not a super fan of the series but if you've been invested in the world building or mysteries set since the Sky games then I'm honestly curious to see post-release reactions and if people are as disappointed as I was. (CS3 and CS4 spoilers) Barring all the curse garbage, I think the worst things for me were all the non-deaths and temporary side switching that started in CS3 and ended in CS4. George shooting Angie was a big nothing burger. Sharon going back to Ouroboros was also a big nothing burger, unless you're into BDSM outfits. The Courageous explosion gave us nothing but a fancy eyepatch for Olivier and a completely pointless subplot with Victor. Crow's role in the second half of the plot feels like some half-assed fujoshi pandering. I get this sense that rather than trying to grow a lot of these characters, CS4 tried to regress them back to the state they were in during the second half of CS1, where everyone was super friendly and happy. It kind of undermines the stakes and scale of the conflict that's been building up over the course of the tetrology.
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Oct 24, 2020 19:27
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So uh.... I forgot to read the books cuz CS3's end was so intense, and uh.... Immoral Hero is terrifying jesus christ.
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Oct 24, 2020 20:03
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Idkbutlike2 posted:(CS3 and CS4 spoilers) 
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Oct 24, 2020 20:09
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Idkbutlike2 posted:(CS3 and CS4 spoilers) Agreed. CS3/4 spoilers When CS3 ended, I was initially annoyed with it being a cliffhanger but once that passed, I was unbelievably hyped for CS4. The reveals in 3 were fast and shocking that it reminded me of Ao/Azure. I was wondering just how CS4 would even play like, what would even happen with the future of the series. Then it came out and not only do they use the Curse as the reason for everything bad happening in Kiseki, up to and including the war with Liberl instead of petty human greed and ambition but they walk back everything interesting which happened in the previous games too. It just reset everything to the status quo and makes the tetrology feel like a tremendous waste of time. I honestly think Hajimari is a far better send off to Cold Steel instead of the so-called "End of Saga". That game shares some of the same problems as Cold Steel 4 but the interactions with C's route in that game, as well as being less meandering with a finale which both raises questions for the Calvard arc to explore while definitely ending the Crossbell and Erebonia arcs for good elevate it.
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Oct 24, 2020 20:32
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Terper posted:Hey now, we got to hear what Walter and Luciola were fighting for... I think Walter just enjoys violence and testing his kung fu skills.
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Oct 24, 2020 20:53
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Clarste posted:For what it's worth I cannot imagine any kind of explanation of Ouroboros' plans that would satisfying. It's sort of clear by now that they exist entirely to be mysterious villains and any kind of understandable motivation is a distant afterthought. I assumed they're just trying to advance their tech to the point that they can augment a liver and defeat Aina in a drinking contest
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Oct 24, 2020 21:10
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Idkbutlike2 posted:(CS3 and CS4 spoilers) Yeah, this in particular is a serious issue because it makes a lot of these things feel like they're lacking consequences. I didn't *want* characters to die of course. Angie dying by getting randomly shot would suck. But it sucks more than the end result is "she wears a mask for like two scenes and then everything is back to normal with no hard feelings on any side" because it feels like a waste of everyone's time. Honestly I am comfortable to say that any character who shows up wearing a dumb mask is worse off for doing so except for a certain Phantom Thief because that is part of his style. Putting so much blame on The Curse also feels kind of crappy. There was a perfectly fine setup for antagonism just based on actual political strife and differing viewpoints and so much of it boiling down to 'lol joke the curse did it' makes a lot of the previous events feel really toothless. I mean I don't mind magic bullshit but I don't feel it should override so much of previous motivations. SyntheticPolygon posted:I think Walter just enjoys violence and testing his kung fu skills. Every single character who has ever touched a weapon is both A) One of the most skilled and talented members of their generation and B) Really fuckin' loves testing those skills. Honestly if Oroborus just hosted a big ol' fighting tournament every year they'd probably be way happier.
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Oct 24, 2020 21:25
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I think they already might. Most Ouroboros members i've encountered have mentioned duelling other members, they totally have a fight club going on.
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Oct 24, 2020 21:32
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i refuse to take the opinions of anyone who complains about 'fujoshi' seriously, because i dont hate women
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Oct 24, 2020 21:54
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Oh by the way, now that the review embargo is apparently up... what's up with the voices? Who did they recast, and how noticeable is it? Also, did they do dumb jokes for the trial chests?
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Oct 24, 2020 21:56
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Admiral H. Curtiss posted:Oh by the way, now that the review embargo is apparently up... what's up with the voices? Who did they recast, and how noticeable is it? Some of the voices are recast, some aren't. I honestly can't say off the top of my head but for the most part they do a good job once you get past the differences. No chest jokes which is a tremendous missed opportunity.
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Oct 24, 2020 21:58
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Laura is the big one I remember. Also after playing the Zero patch I'm fine with no chest jokes ever again because boy, are bad chest jokes insufferable. Unless you love insanely labored puns and police brutality 'jokes.' having a chest scream that it cant breathe and is being beaten by police is very, uh, funny? in 2020?
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Oct 24, 2020 22:01
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Admiral H. Curtiss posted:Oh by the way, now that the review embargo is apparently up... what's up with the voices? Who did they recast, and how noticeable is it? From what I've heard, Laura, Osborne, Lechter and Mcburn. Apparently the replacements did fine but I'm just repeating what I've heard, I haven't played it in English myself.
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Oct 24, 2020 22:03
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If Osborne is recast that's really funny since all the trailers use his big lines from the end of CS3.
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Oct 24, 2020 22:04
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Endorph posted:i refuse to take the opinions of anyone who complains about 'fujoshi' seriously, because i dont hate women 
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Oct 24, 2020 22:06
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ImpAtom posted:No chest jokes which is a tremendous missed opportunity. This is the worst thing I've heard about the game so far.
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Oct 24, 2020 22:08
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No I mean 'fujoshi' is literally a sexist insult. It means 'rotten woman.' A woman who isn't doing what she's supposed to do (marry a dude and pump out kids.) It was reclaimed by women but it's still sexist when used, well, insultingly. I don't care if you think bad writing decisions were made because a character was popular with women because that's often a thing that happens, I mean literally using the word 'fujoshi' like that is objectively sexist.
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Oct 24, 2020 22:08
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Endorph posted:Laura is the big one I remember. Yeah, I assume NISA would have done it a lot worse. That said CSIV does have some kinda 'uh' moments which come a lot more from "This is sort of a generic fantasy setting" but read a lot weirder in 2020. Machais has a subplot where he encounters a character who is actively stripping nobles of their rank and money and forcing them to the front lines because they have been hording wealth and placing themselves above others and Machias's response is "Well that isn't *fair* you need to work within the law!! Nobility don't deserve that!" despite the fact there is a massive world war going on where poorer people from villages are being forcibly conscripted at tremendous rates which nobles are largely avoiding. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Oct 24, 2020 |
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Oct 24, 2020 22:10
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ImpAtom posted:Yeah, I assume NISA would have done it a lot worse. that kinda just sounds like they wanted a sidequest to show machias didnt hate nobles to death anymore and didnt think about the wider implications or world whatsoever. which describes pretty much everything to do with machias's class struggle angle both ways, tbh
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Oct 24, 2020 22:15
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Endorph posted:that kinda just sounds like they wanted a sidequest to show machias didnt hate nobles to death anymore and didnt think about the wider implications or world whatsoever Yeah, that is exactly what it is. It's supposed to show character growth but.. yeah.
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Oct 24, 2020 22:15
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Endorph posted:No I mean 'fujoshi' is literally a sexist insult. It means 'rotten woman.' A woman who isn't doing what she's supposed to do (marry a dude and pump out kids.) It was reclaimed by women but it's still sexist when used, well, insultingly. I don't care if you think bad writing decisions were made because a character was popular with women because that's often a thing that happens, I mean literally using the word 'fujoshi' like that is objectively sexist. It was obvious which meaning of the word they meant in that post, and it's not "this writing is bad because it appeals to childless women".
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Oct 24, 2020 22:16
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:It was obvious which meaning of the word they meant in that post, and it's not "this writing is bad because it appeals to childless women". It's one of those words which gets used so often by terrible people that it probably pays to just use another term, to be fair.
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Oct 24, 2020 22:21
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AFancyQuestionMark posted:It was obvious which meaning of the word they meant in that post, and it's not "this writing is bad because it appeals to childless women".
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Oct 24, 2020 22:23
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Endorph posted:no, thats the one meaning of the word. someone who isnt a fujoshi using it like that always has that one meaning, because its the only meaning it has in that context, even if it isnt intended. IMO, there is no way to read that post in which that meaning makes sense as opposed to the benign one and choosing to read it the other way is weirdly hostile
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Oct 24, 2020 22:28
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