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Guillermus posted:I admire people that like to play with pistol starts. It's something that I can't do at all, and I can subject myself to horrible grinds in videogames, but I'll always hate when I lose my weapons and items. Well one of the interesting things about older FPSes is how so many of the levels were designed for pistol starts. Like you won't find a BFG on every level in Doom, but you'll definitely find it more than once, which is redundant if you aren't pistol starting but it means that its presence on a level gives that level its own specific strategies if you are.
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Oct 26, 2020 00:40
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Doom 1 and 2 were entirely designed with pistol start in mind. Idk about any other retro FPS.
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Oct 26, 2020 00:51
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I think its common because its much easier to playtest and balance maps from a pistol start, especially if you're making them out of order. Otherwise you have to estimate how much health/ammo the player should bring in from the previous map, or play every single map over again every time. And it becomes trickier if you want to account for secrets. At least, those are my thoughts having recently started mapping. I usually play continuous myself, but all maps I've made have been designed for pistol start due to those reasons.
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Oct 26, 2020 00:53
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Weird Sandwich posted:but all maps I've made have been designed for pistol start die to those reasons. Freudian slip?
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Oct 26, 2020 00:54
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Serephina posted:Freudian slip? This is normally my experience pistol starting, so yes
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Oct 26, 2020 00:56
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i prefer pistol starting in general, since as has been said doom 1/2 and heretic also were very much designed for it. being forced to scrabble for resources is really fun to me and demands a sort of level mastery and pickup management that aren't as present when you play continuous
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Oct 26, 2020 00:58
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Weird Sandwich posted:I think its common because its much easier to playtest and balance maps from a pistol start, especially if you're making them out of order. Otherwise you have to estimate how much health/ammo the player should bring in from the previous map, or play every single map over again every time. And it becomes trickier if you want to account for secrets. one thing that might help is to kind of plot out the pace of your WAD first, so that even if you're making the maps out of order, you've already decided when the player's going to get specific weapons, you have a general feel for how much health/ammo they'll have, etc.
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Oct 26, 2020 01:02
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Guillermus posted:I admire people that like to play with pistol starts. It's something that I can't do at all, and I can subject myself to horrible grinds in videogames, but I'll always hate when I lose my weapons and items. I almost always play continuous but lately I've been on a wad binge and have warmed up to pistol starting. Mainly because many of the most highly recommended wads feel so tightly designed around it that it feels like the "right" way to play and coming into a level with all the weapons feels more like cheating.
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Oct 26, 2020 01:16
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Pistol sucks so I never do pistol start.
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Oct 26, 2020 01:51
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"pistol starts are for enlightened players like myself who truly appreciate every part of the doom toolbox" I say wisely as I spend half my lifespan plinking away at a cacodemon with a pistol
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Oct 26, 2020 02:06
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I appreciate pistol start techniques meaning every map is balanced, for me the impatient player who will call your map trash if I have to spend the start running away from cacos and barons while I try to figure out where in the hell you put a shotgun.
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Oct 26, 2020 02:12
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I'd like pistol starts more if the pistol wasn't so boring and not fun to use. I know from mods that even if you just change the sound and animation and maybe up the fire rate it becomes a thousand times more fun.
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Oct 26, 2020 02:19
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IronicDongz posted:"pistol starts are for enlightened players like myself who truly appreciate every part of the doom toolbox" I say wisely as I spend half my lifespan plinking away at a cacodemon with a pistol Hey, if it was good enough for Sandy Peterson  WeedlordGoku69 posted:one thing that might help is to kind of plot out the pace of your WAD first, so that even if you're making the maps out of order, you've already decided when the player's going to get specific weapons, you have a general feel for how much health/ammo they'll have, etc. Thanks for the advice! I have a vague idea of the weapon progression but not much more yet.
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Oct 26, 2020 02:54
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idk if Heretic is intended for wand start since it deliberately leaves one of every item from the previous level it's clear you were intended to play linearly.
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Oct 26, 2020 03:06
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al-azad posted:idk if Heretic is intended for wand start since it deliberately leaves one of every item from the previous level it's clear you were intended to play linearly. given that natural behavior for dying puts you at wand start with an empty inventory, and that every level has weapons strewn around it, yeah pistol start is at least an intended gameplay experience source: i have wand started every level in heretic on black plague
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Oct 26, 2020 05:10
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Pistol starts are more fun for me once I learned how it’s more accurate if you wait a moment between shots instead of holding the trigger down from one of Civvie’s videos. Why did they remove the assault rifle from the final game? It feels like an odd thing omission from the weapon roster.
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Oct 26, 2020 05:17
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I pistol start and rarely ever shoot anything with the pistol that isn't a switch
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Oct 26, 2020 05:19
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SeANMcBAY posted:Why did they remove the assault rifle from the final game? It feels like an odd thing omission from the weapon roster. Wait, do you mean in DOOM' 94? Assault rifles weren't a staple yet, the genre was only just being invented (by, you know, DOOM). And why would you want an assault rifle when you could have a chaingun?
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Oct 26, 2020 05:25
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Serephina posted:Wait, do you mean in DOOM' 94? Assault rifles weren't a staple yet, the genre was only just being invented (by, you know, DOOM). And why would you want an assault rifle when you could have a chaingun? there was a rifle in very early betas that was eventually swapped to a pistol for release
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Oct 26, 2020 05:27
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https://twitter.com/dphrygian/status/1320604288180248577 System Shock 2 
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Oct 26, 2020 07:19
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SeANMcBAY posted:Pistol starts are more fun for me once I learned how it’s more accurate if you wait a moment between shots instead of holding the trigger down from one of Civvie’s videos. I'd guess because it looked a bit poo poo.
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Oct 26, 2020 07:20
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Thief, it isn't a real immersive sim anyway 
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Oct 26, 2020 07:22
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Arx Fatalis is the odd one out because you can cook things.
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Oct 26, 2020 07:37
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Am I not allowed to drown them all?
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Oct 26, 2020 07:56
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Arx (because it's the one I haven't played!)
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Oct 26, 2020 08:34
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Thief (since stealth is a thing I don't like for more than 10 seconds). Edited instead of quoting. Guillermus fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Oct 26, 2020 |
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Oct 26, 2020 08:44
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really i'd only keep system shock 2, the others are whatever
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Oct 26, 2020 09:39
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Guillermus posted:Thief (since stealth is a thing I don't like for more than 10 seconds). Overwatch Porn posted:really i'd only keep system shock 2, the others are whatever 
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Oct 26, 2020 13:02
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Guillermus posted:Thief (since stealth is a thing I don't like for more than 10 seconds). Overwatch Porn posted:really i'd only keep system shock 2, the others are whatever https://youtu.be/DDLpKrTVJKc
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Oct 26, 2020 13:21
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Another hot take: I'll order them from like more>less System Shock 2 > Arx Fatalis > Deus Ex > Thief
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Oct 26, 2020 14:33
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Barudak posted:Am I not allowed to drown them all? You have to delete one and FMK the rest, sorry
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Oct 26, 2020 14:38
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Guillermus posted:Another hot take: I'll order them from like more>less Thief is the worst game there. Thief 2 on the other hand is excellent
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Oct 26, 2020 14:53
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Convex posted:Thief is the worst game there. Thief 2 on the other hand is excellent Yeah I was thinking you gotta put Thief 2 to really get the jimmies rustled.
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Oct 26, 2020 15:15
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Convex posted:Thief is the worst game there. Thief 2 on the other hand is excellent But Thief 1 > Thief 2!
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Oct 26, 2020 15:22
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System shock 2 > Deus Ex > Thief (2) > Arx, and I'm pretty confident in this.
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Oct 26, 2020 15:29
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haveblue posted:You have to delete one and FMK the rest, sorry Ok, poo poo, gently caress. Uh. Delete Thief Kill System Shock 2 gently caress Arx Fatalis Marry... ugh.... Deus Ex
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Oct 26, 2020 15:43
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I don’t like any of them. Rather play quake 2
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Oct 26, 2020 16:02
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Arx Fatalis, being the only one where you can cook pastries, is the one to marry obviously. Deus Ex only has snack foods to offer, and its attempt at homecooking end in
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Oct 26, 2020 16:03
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I know Deus Ex takes place in a dystopian hellhole but how does anyone survive? The only foods are soy, candy bars, soda, and wine. The nutritional value!!! 
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Oct 26, 2020 16:06
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The soy is augmented.
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Oct 26, 2020 16:08
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