|
hobbesmaster posted:There’s now a 3060ti in China at least which I’d put money on being a thing because way too many 3070s failed to meet specs. The 2060 was a cutdown 2070, and there was a version of the 1060 that was a cutdown 1080. Some of this is die harvesting for sure, but a lot of it is also "value engineering". Nvidia (and Intel, and AMD) want products down the whole price range without cannibalizing their most profitable top end models, but designing whole new masks is the most expensive part of their business. So how do we solve this conundrum? We deactivate those larger parts (regardless of whether they have flaws or not) and sell them in those lower tier price slots without making new masks from scratch. Producing the silicon itself is one of the cheapest parts of this whole deal.
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 19:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 30, 2024 15:37 |
|
|
Shlomo Palestein posted:Never gonna get it by en vogue on endless loop Something I Can Never Have by Nine Inch Nails 
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 19:20
|
|
|
hobbesmaster posted:There’s now a 3060ti in China at least which I’d put money on being a thing because way too many 3070s failed to meet specs. Not only is Cygni correct that cutting down perfectly good dies is a long and proud tradition of basically all chip manufacturers, but also remember that China is a unique marketplace that often sees strange China-only products to address their particular demands (particularly their net cafes). That there's adds up for it in China when it hasn't even been announced makes me wonder if NVidia doesn't plan on it being a world-wide product at this point. I'm sure we'll get it eventually, though--Turing had the 1650, 1650 Super, 1660, 1660 Super, 1660Ti, 2060, and 2060 Super all hanging out below the 2070, so I'd expect a plethora of "lesser" cards over the next few months. Or maybe someone just slipped up and let an add campaign start that wasn't intended to run until next week. DrDork fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Oct 26, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 19:32
|
|
|
Farmer Crack-rear end posted:ugh, if samsung can't cut it and TSMC's too booked up then obviously nVidia should have just built their own fab already Just toss some silicon ingots in that bitch and project a few Powerpoint slides with jpgs of the microfeatures onto them.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 19:36
|
|
|
I have a preorder for the 3080 tuf (non oc) from memory express from September 19th... I think it's a race between who cancels it first, them or me. I've read that Canada Computers is already cancelling these orders since the non-oc cards aren't being made.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 19:37
|
|
|
I realized my 12v rail was only measuring 11.6 by the time it was getting to the CPU/GPU. My PSU has a trim potentiometer. I adjusted it to something like 12.2 so that the BIOS and HWMonitor are now readying 12.0v even. I know there's some wiggle room on the ATX spec, but for overall efficiency/stability should I be aiming for as close to 12 as possible, or is it better to go a bit above/below? I plan on getting a 3080 (some day) and doing the undervolt. Was just curious what Xtreme Overclockers tend towards for 12v rail voltage.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 20:18
|
|
|
EngineerJoe posted:I have a preorder for the 3080 tuf (non oc) from memory express from September 19th... I think it's a race between who cancels it first, them or me. I've read that Canada Computers is already cancelling these orders since the non-oc cards aren't being made. Ah, mine is Oct 2, so I'm substantially more hosed.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 20:22
|
|
|
Check your emails if you signed up for EVGA auto-notifies when the 3080 is in stock. I received a notice and the order was processed.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 20:29
|
|
|
Zero VGS posted:I realized my 12v rail was only measuring 11.6 by the time it was getting to the CPU/GPU. My PSU has a trim potentiometer. I adjusted it to something like 12.2 so that the BIOS and HWMonitor are now readying 12.0v even. The spec is +/- 5%, so that is within spec. Also the software readings you get from software is not super reliable for that sort of stuff, probably adding its own 5% of error. The 12v reading you are getting is from the EPS 12v connector most of the time, not the PCIe plugs in the GPU that are feeding it the vast majority of its power, although they do share a single 12v rail in the vast majority of PSUs so maybe you can glean a little from it. In general it wont be a problem as the GPU is doing its own active power monitoring and sucking the appropriate wattage, provided it has enough cables to give it what it wants. If the 12v rail was drooping and spiking up and down alot though, that might cause issues.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 20:30
|
|
|
Subjunctive posted:Ah, mine is Oct 2, so I'm substantially more hosed. Boy howdy, 2 weeks ago I found out I was 19th in line for the card... this past Friday I was informed that I was 17th. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 21:09
|
|
|
v1ld posted:I'm not following most of this and didn't see the post you're quoting from but this ratio of relative gains is not a good metric for any purchasing decision. Consider some mythical game running on cards x, y, z: The point is that the difference between the 3080 and 3090 is often larger than the difference between an overclocked 2080 Ti to a 3080. That probably only matters to you if, when buying a video card, you want a big upgrade from an overclocked 2080 Ti. The 3080 isn't that giant of an upgrade from an overclocked 2080 Ti. Which is why Nvidia went out of its way to avoid that comparison in their charts. If you don't care about that, as most people don't, as they don't game on the top end hardware from generation to generation, then the comparison isn't really for you anyways. I can't speak to your made up examples. I can only speak to the point I'm trying to (and did) make with real data. Does that help clarify at all? I'm not sure how much more I can simplify it honestly. My main aim here is just to explain why a subgroup of people find the 3090 to be a compelling upgrade. It's only a compelling upgrade if you view it relative to the 2080 Ti, for top end enthusiast gamers. I've gone way out of my way to disclaimer that it matters to no one else. quote:The ratios of relative gains that's being presented is the same as re-basing the y axis at the lowest value to make small incremental gains look larger - a practice we frown upon when it's on a manufacturer's marketing slide. Ok then you're effectively saying that the gain from a 2080 Ti to a 3080 is incremental as well because these numbers are ALL relative to that gain man. and if that's your point, more power to you, but almost everyone views the 3080 as more than an incremental gain vs. the 2080 Ti. Taima fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Oct 26, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 21:10
|
|
|
If Samsung overpromised their process node, or rather its yield, in the hopes to right the ship for actual production, how is NVidia even supposed to recover from that? Even if TSMC had capacity to manufacture the chip, doing so would have required to have taped it out and whatever the hell they do leading up to manufacturing. If that didn't happen yet, I guess I won't see my 3080 before Q2 '21.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 21:13
|
|
|
EngineerJoe posted:Boy howdy, Only 17 more weeks until that card is yours
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 21:15
|
|
|
Taima posted:The point is that the difference between the 3080 and 3090 is often larger than the difference between an overclocked 2080 Ti to a 3080. It doesn't need clarification at all, thanks - it's pretty simple in itself. You can state your first point: "The 3090 is only 7.2 fps faster than the 3080. But the 3080 is only 12.8 fps faster than the overclocked 2080 Ti." in exactly those words. Changing them into percentages makes that look better than it is, which is what those "made up examples" show. Basically the 3090 is a small 10-15% jump over the 3080 relative to the extra cost which is almost 2x (or maybe more, not following it closely). If that is something you want you should buy it, but there's no need to rephrase that as a big jump by changing it to percentages that ignore the base value - which is the same as the marketing slides that are not 0-based to make small relative differences look bigger. I.e., if price/performance is important the 3090 doesn't look attractive relative to the 3080. But if you're buying the 3090 price/perf is almost certainly not your first priority, so that doesn't matter - but those percentages aren't needed nor relevant to that argument. v1ld fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Oct 26, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 21:17
|
|
|
v1ld posted:It doesn't need clarification at all, thanks - it's pretty simple in itself. Ok but to be clear here you're also intrinsically saying that the 3080 is only an incremental gain vs a 2080 Ti since quite often the 3090 is actually more of a relative gain than that, and you're framing it as small. If that's your point, that works for me and we're totally on the same page. They're both relatively small gains overall, and the 3090 is the only big upgrade vs. a 2080 Ti. However we can also agree that when viewed on a perf/$ ratio, the 3080 is amazing. That was never the point I intended to disagree with, as it's clearly an awesome, super cost effective card. Taima fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Oct 26, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 21:22
|
|
|
Combat Pretzel posted:If Samsung overpromised their process node, or rather its yield, in the hopes to right the ship for actual production, how is NVidia even supposed to recover from that? If Samsung has spare capacity they could spin up, they can do that--there's still some lead time there, but probably more on the order of weeks to a couple of months. And...that's about it. That's the risk with picking fabs: if you pick wrong, you're basically hosed for that generation, because moving to another fab takes so long. That said, it's not uncommon for the initial run of new-gen chips to have crappy yields and then the fab makes some minor tweaks that substantially improve the situation over the first few months. But that's still months, plural, not weeks. The TSMC thing was likely decided 6 months ago, and we still won't see any results from it for another 6+ months, and whenever we do, I doubt it'll be called a 3080 because it'll be about time for a mid-cycle refresh anyhow. DrDork fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Oct 26, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 21:22
|
|
|
Taima posted:Ok then you're effectively saying that the gain from a 2080 Ti to a 3080 is incremental as well because these numbers are ALL relative to that gain man. and if that's your point, more power to you, but almost everyone views the 3080 as more than an incremental gain vs. the 2080 Ti. No, I'm not. What I was saying in the quoted bit and by the two examples I gave is there's a common marketing practice to make a very small relative difference look large by removing the large common value. So the slides then show large differences when it's in reality smaller. So if you take 1001, 1002, 1005 and graph them as 1, 2, 5 by subtracting 1000 from each value then the differences look very large. Why, the 3rd column is 5x the size of the 1st column!!! When it's in reality about a 0.4% difference. That's effectively what you've done by focusing only on the difference between the 2089 Ti / 3080 / 3090 and not the absolute values: a 12 and 7 fps difference then suddenly becomes a 50%+ jump. It's the same idea being used and hides that there's only a 10-15% jump in absolute performance. None of this is to say don't buy the 3090 - if you like that performance, you should get it of course. Taima posted:However we can also agree that when viewed on a perf/$ ratio, the 3080 is amazing. That was never the point I intended to disagree with, as it's clearly an awesome, super cost effective card. Indeed! It is a very good value by any standard. v1ld fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Oct 26, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 21:27
|
|
|
This has probably run its course in terms of being interesting to anyone but I would just like to add that taking the literal smallest difference possible and framing it as something we should be discussing doesn't come off as particularly honest. At least talk about where it's a much larger differential as well, like I did in my comparison. That's why I added the worst and "typical" case scenarios, to try to make what I viewed as a more realistic point. In any case I've made my point, and it's a point that barely matters as hardly anyone would consider a 3090 regardless. Have a nice one man.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 21:30
|
|
|
briefly at launch i figured the 3090 would somehow be easier to find because of its price which was making me willing to purchase it but apparently everyone else had the same idea so i'm just sitting this out until amd's announcement makes people lose interest
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 21:31
|
|
|
Likewise. I picked those for effect just to show the extremes you get by using the method - it's not being dishonest, just showing how that approach leads to worse values. And cheers - enjoy the 3090 being able to drive your sweet monitor to its max.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 21:32
|
|
|
Are companies that compete with AMD cursed to have bad luck with their fabs? Is this Dr Su’s secret power? Will mountain bike assembly lines now start getting hosed up in weird ways?
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 21:34
|
|
|
That's a fair point. It's just so hard to even make comparisons when the 3080 is only 12 frames better than a 2080 Ti so... man the sample is just so low in general. It's a whole different point but the overall marketing of the 3080 feels wrong to me. It's simply nowhere near as much of a generational upgrade overall as people were informed to believe by Nvidia (except in perf/$ where it kicks rear end) They didn't need to make the outrageous claims they did, ya know? It's a great card. Let it stand on its merits without throwing around 2x better ***only in 2 RTX titles*** and explicitly leaving out overclocked numbers (because 3080 can't really effectively overclock like previous gens)
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 21:35
|
|
|
Shipon posted:briefly at launch i figured the 3090 would somehow be easier to find because of its price which was making me willing to purchase it but apparently everyone else had the same idea so i'm just sitting this out until amd's announcement makes people lose interest It is easier to get, by comparison. But much like the above conversation, saying stocks last three times as long for the 3090 vs 3080 overlooks the reality that you're talking about a difference of 15 seconds vs 45 seconds or whatever--still super hard to get.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 21:36
|
|
|
Taima posted:That's a fair point. It's just so hard to even make comparisons when the 3080 is only 12 frames better than a 2080 Ti so... man the sample is just so low in general. it's like 50% faster than the 2080? that's a huge improvement at the same price point. taking an overclocked 2080ti and using that as your comparison point to talk about how it's actually not impressive is disingenuous
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 21:36
|
|
|
Shipon posted:it's like 50% faster than the 2080? that's a huge improvement at the same price point. taking an overclocked 2080ti and using that as your comparison point to talk about how it's actually not impressive is disingenuous Maybe but this gen the 3080 is on the top die. It's basically a slightly cut down 3080 Ti (gen over gen standardized). The reason I talk about an overclocked 2080 Ti is because Ampere is effectively 95% overclocked from the factory. So it's really unfair to talk about Ampere and then use non-overclocked last gen cards. Just like you could make a very compelling argument that comparing the 3080 (a super overclocked top die) and a 2080 is kind of ridic
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 21:41
|
|
|
Dafte posted:Check your emails if you signed up for EVGA auto-notifies when the 3080 is in stock. I received a notice and the order was processed. Do you happen to know when you clicked the button? They're working through a first-come first-serve queue, and the link you clicked in your email was probably only specifically for you, I think. Congrats, though! Was it for an FTW?
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 21:44
|
|
|
Taima posted:Maybe but this gen the 3080 is on the top die. They're comparing it to the 2080 because they were introduced at the same price. That is all.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 21:48
|
|
|
Taima posted:The reason I talk about an overclocked 2080 Ti is because Ampere is effectively 95% overclocked from the factory. So it's really unfair to talk about Ampere and then use non-overclocked last gen cards. They're comparing it to a 2080 and not a 2080 Ti because the 3080 is $700, not $1200. That's it. Comparing it to a 2080Ti, overclocked or not, doesn't make the 3080 look like an enormous jump, because in absolute performance it's not an enormous jump. But if that's your lede, you're going to get raked over the coals because people would just look at the charts, see that the bars are fairly similar, and go complaining that it's not fast(er) enough while largely ignoring that it's almost half the price. Positioning it against the 2080 is a perfectly reasonable choice given that the 3080 is replacing it at the same price-point. The 3090 should absolutely be compared against the 2080 Ti, by comparison. I mean,  and all, but no one argues that BMW hosed up because the 2020 340 is better/faster than the 2019 340, but isn't better/faster than the 2019 740, since they're in entirely different price classes.
DrDork fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Oct 26, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 21:50
|
|
|
The 3070 is the first time I’m buying a video card that I couldn’t just walk into Microcenter and get. I’m US based so what sites do I want to be checking, and are there any other methods y’all are employing? In stock notification bots?
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 21:51
|
|
|
Seems like the right comparison should be the 2080 super, since that's the outgoing gpu it replaces at $700.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 21:51
|
|
|
IIRC the 2080 Super was only about 7% faster than the 2080, so the difference is still ~40%, which is still really nice.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 21:54
|
|
|
Zarin posted:Do you happen to know when you clicked the button? Sent at at 2:00 PM Central and opened it about 30 minutes later. EVGA GeForce RTX 3080 XC3. It was a custom direct link with a note of "Please Note : You must be logged into the EVGA website and your profile email address MUST match the address that you used to sign up for notify."
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 21:55
|
|
|
Well my LG 27GL83A-B got delivered today. It's DOA and Amazon will not let me ask for replacement, only a refund which I can't use to order again because it's out of stock (well always). So now my backup feel good plan since I couldn't get the RTX 3080 and was waiting until stocks normalize (looks like 2021 at this point) also failed. I just wanted to spend money and feel good... 2020 has not be nice even if you take out the Covid stuff. I don't want a 3070 this time so I'll try to get cheered up when I see a bunch of new people in the same boat as most of us!
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 21:55
|
|
|
JUNGLE BOY posted:The 3070 is the first time I’m buying a video card that I couldn’t just walk into Microcenter and get. I’m US based so what sites do I want to be checking, and are there any other methods y’all are employing? In stock notification bots? Microcenter's online store, Amazon, B&HPhoto, BestBuy, and Zotac's online store, mostly. Of these, BestBuy seems to have had the most stock. Scroll back a few pages and you'll find links to a couple of different Discord groups that run bots that'll notify you. Those seem to be the best option outside running your own bots. e; Newegg, too, both their normal online store and occasionally their eBay store. Why the hell they'd be selling instant-sellout items on eBay is beyond me, but whatever. DrDork fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Oct 26, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 21:57
|
|
|
Hemish posted:Well my LG 27GL83A-B got delivered today. It's DOA and Amazon will not let me ask for replacement, only a refund which I can't use to order again because it's out of stock (well always). It's out of stock, but you can still buy it now and it'll ship when they get stock back in early Nov. Or is it some weird bit where you can't use gift card credit (which is where refund money goes unless you specify otherwise) to order not-immediately-in-stock items?
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 21:59
|
|
|
DrDork posted:They're comparing it to a 2080 and not a 2080 Ti because the 3080 is $700, not $1200. That's it. Comparing it to a 2080Ti, overclocked or not, doesn't make the 3080 look like an enormous jump, because in absolute performance it's not an enormous jump. But if that's your lede, you're going to get raked over the coals because people would just look at the charts, see that the bars are fairly similar, and go complaining that it's not fast(er) enough while largely ignoring that it's almost half the price. Even worse though right? Wasn't the 2080 Ti effectively more like 1400-1500 at retail? woof. So I get the hate, these are cards almost no one is buying, so it's not real in any realistic, day to day way to them. My main aim has been to try to dispel some of these myths that Ampere is significantly better than Turing gen on gen in anything besides perf/$, and also explain why some people may find the 3090 a compelling upgrade, as I don't think many people really "get it" (nor should they I suppose). DrDork posted:Positioning it against the 2080 is a perfectly reasonable choice given that the 3080 is replacing it at the same price-point. The 3090 should absolutely be compared against the 2080 Ti, by comparison. I suppose that's fair. Not many people are thinking of the absolute numbers, just how much they're paying, which is fair enough. It's an intrinsically privileged position to go "I am viewing this product vs. all products no matter the price" even if it is intellectually interesting imo. Your point is well taken in any case. Taima fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Oct 26, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 22:00
|
|
|
DrDork posted:It's out of stock, but you can still buy it now and it'll ship when they get stock back in early Nov. Or is it some weird bit where you can't use gift card credit (which is where refund money goes unless you specify otherwise) to order not-immediately-in-stock items? Amazon refunds returns directly to your credit card. They don't backorder replacements, not sure why exactly. edit: It's not a payment thing because replacements are invoiced at $0. You could return it and immediately backorder it yourself. Pivo fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Oct 26, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 22:02
|
|
|
The EVGA XE3 Ultra queue moved by an hour. I’m only 7 hours away!
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 22:05
|
|
|
Taima posted:My main aim has been to try to dispel some of these myths that Ampere is significantly better than Turing gen on gen in anything besides perf/$, and also explain why some people may find the 3090 a compelling upgrade, as I don't think many people really "get it" (nor should they I suppose). Unless you're doing RTX games!  All 6 of them or whatever they're up to right now.I guess the other part is that most of the people who are super excited about the 3080 aren't upgrading from Turing, they're upgrading from Pascal or Maxwell, because Turing was such a poor value. Ampere, as we all agree, is an excellent value. I think most of us can conceptualize that there are people who have enough money or enough need to have the best that they consider a 3090 a reasonable purchase--and for them it is, and I hope they enjoy their purchase. I think it's mostly the people who are suffering from "I really want a 3080 because that's the sensible card, but I can't get one so maybe I can stretch my budget to $1500 if I see a 3090 pop up" that the thread has been trying to steer towards "just chill and wait." Overall I think we're all pretty much on the same page.
|
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 22:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 30, 2024 15:37 |
|
|
Pivo posted:Amazon refunds returns directly to your credit card. They don't backorder replacements, not sure why exactly. Mine returns always end up as gift card credit, but then again I use Amazon's CC so maybe that's part of it. e; saw in the Monitor thread that the poor guy's Canadian, which explains the issue: for whatever reason, Amazon.ca is not offering backorders for the monitor the way US Amazon is, so the only options for buying it right now are from 3rd party scalpers ($700+). DrDork fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Oct 26, 2020 |
|
#
?
Oct 26, 2020 22:10
|
|