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I tend to pick any two of Skilled, Small Frame, and Good-Natured. I have a terrible min/max habit and want all the skill points all the time. And also more Agility is just... Good.
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Oct 27, 2020 21:11
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I almost always take Loophole just to avoid the excessive enemy scaling and kind of annoying addiction mechanic. The other one I try to roleplay with, or select whatever boosts my main weapon the most. I take Four Eyes a lot more than I really should just cause I wear glasses irl.
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Oct 27, 2020 21:14
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It's either Skilled and Logan's Loophole, or Skilled and Good Natured. All other options just amount to making suboptimal choices for variety's sake.
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Oct 27, 2020 21:21
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I take skilled and good natured because I enjoy passive skills more than combat skills and I can snag Lucky really early as a result of high lockpicking. The - 10% xp gain is also handy because i find you level up way too fast in the game and I like to stretch out my level ups so I dont plateau by the midgame.
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Oct 27, 2020 21:21
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Skilled + Logan’s Loophole is probably the best combination of traits for general min-maxing a regular play through. Others can be more useful if you’re trying to speedrun or do gimmick characters.
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Oct 27, 2020 21:33
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Eric the Mauve posted:It's either Skilled and Logan's Loophole, or Skilled and Good Natured. All other options just amount to making suboptimal choices for variety's sake. I disagree. Fast Shot and Trigger Discipline are really good with the appropriate weapons, and so is Built To Destroy. 85 skill points is great, but I'd rather do an extra 15% damage.
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Oct 27, 2020 23:05
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I just noticed that a lot of minor NPCs are voiced by Gregory Alan Williams (best known as the cop from Baywatch) and now I can't unhear it. That's why New Vegas is so good, nearly every named NPC has at least something memorable about them, unlike FO3's bland ones. The writing in Fallout 3 was bad overall - the world was fun to wonder around in, but there was no story on the bones. I've only ever done one playthrough, and that's all it needed. I've got Fallout 4 in my amazon basket, but I'm just not sure if I want to get it. Is the voiced protagonist that bad? It seems really obnoxious from the videos I've seen. I'm planning on getting a new laptop, and I'm thinking about maybe getting one that can run Fallout 76, because the CAMP looks fun, even if the game is bad (well, less bad than it was). And I can finally get New Vegas on Steam! One of the very few games I'm OK with buying twice.
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Oct 27, 2020 23:29
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I started off Skilled and Good Natured and eventually went Skilled and Hoarder. Skilled is just all upside, since you can hit the level cap easily enough for a 10% xp penalty to basically mean nothing
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Oct 27, 2020 23:30
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OldMemes posted:I just noticed that a lot of minor NPCs are voiced by Gregory Alan Williams (best known as the cop from Baywatch) and now I can't unhear it. That's why New Vegas is so good, nearly every named NPC has at least something memorable about them, unlike FO3's bland ones. The writing in Fallout 3 was bad overall - the world was fun to wonder around in, but there was no story on the bones. I've only ever done one playthrough, and that's all it needed. I realized that a big difference between Fallout 3 and NV is that in 3, every town immediately tells you what its deal is. In New Vegas, there are some locations that seem boring until you really dig around to see what's up. quote:I've got Fallout 4 in my amazon basket, but I'm just not sure if I want to get it. Is the voiced protagonist that bad? It seems really obnoxious from the videos I've seen. If you enjoyed Fallout 3 you'll enjoy Fallout 4, it improves a lot of the gameplay.
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Oct 27, 2020 23:37
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It was the writing that hurt Fallout 3 the most, there's no moral ambiguty. There's the SELFLESS HERO GOOD BOY choice that the game really, really wants you to pick, or the mustache twirling evil choice that often makes no sense. Like, why would you put the FEV in the water? There's literally no upsides - the Enclave are still hostile, you get no reward, President Eden goes offline regardless, and you just cut off a major resource for yourself. There's no gameplay or story justification for it. That and the Bethesda writing the Super Mutants as inherently evil orcs, and the Brotherhood of Steel as "wow cool power armour" annoyed me, as well as the humour feeling really forced with the focus on everything being wacky. There's some great moments in 3, and the design of the world is cool, but it all feels shoved together, with no feel for interconnectiveness or worldbuliding. You could understand why people were in the Mojave, it made no sense how there were still people in the Capital Wasteland.
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Oct 27, 2020 23:52
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Yeah, they did a much better job with that in 4. Plenty to nitpick but a huge improvement over 3.
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Oct 27, 2020 23:54
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I dislike 3's brotherhood of steel but I honestly do enjoy the brotherhood a lot more in 4 because they are just the worst militant assholes in the wasteland after they get a power base established.
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Oct 27, 2020 23:58
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I loved 3 and just couldn't get into 4 the same way, despite the gameplay improvements.
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Oct 28, 2020 00:14
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I think 3 is the worst Fallout game, but it's still okay. There aren't any truly bad ones (the console BoS game didn't exist don't talk to me about it).
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Oct 28, 2020 00:29
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OldMemes posted:It was the writing that hurt Fallout 3 the most, there's no moral ambiguty. There's the SELFLESS HERO GOOD BOY choice that the game really, really wants you to pick, or the mustache twirling evil choice that often makes no sense. Like, why would you put the FEV in the water? There's literally no upsides - the Enclave are still hostile, you get no reward, President Eden goes offline regardless, and you just cut off a major resource for yourself. There's no gameplay or story justification for it. That and the Bethesda writing the Super Mutants as inherently evil orcs, and the Brotherhood of Steel as "wow cool power armour" annoyed me, as well as the humour feeling really forced with the focus on everything being wacky. Despite its drawbacks, I saw some value in Eden's plan because DC is just littered with Super Mutants. The Brotherhood is the only game in town that can properly fend them off and our intro to the BoS is one Paladin being killed by a Behemoth and them the Behemoth walking all over the rest of the BoS there until you pick up the Fat Man. Plus the BoS has been there for 10 or 20 years (I forget how long) and they still haven't rally accomplished much. The only way to finally, conclusively stop the Super Mutants was the virus because clearly lots of manpower and power armor and Gatling lasers couldn't get it done. Only later did I learn that there are some computers or something in Vault 87 pointing out how the SMs are running out of FEV to make more of themselves and you can even tell Lyons about this so he'll dispatch the BOS to Vault 87 to cut off the supply of more Super Mutants. So they are slowly dwindling and can eventually be taken out through conventional measures, I guess. I just didn't know this in my first run.
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Oct 28, 2020 00:31
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New Vegas is the real Fallout 3, Bethesda's games are a spinoff called Fallout: East Coast 1, 2, and 3.
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Oct 28, 2020 00:31
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I wanted to side with FO3 Enclave because I'm a pathological contrarian and also I'm OK with anything Malcolm McDowell would have me do, but really, Eden's plan made no sense whatsoever, and even the game acknowledges it by having Autumn piss all over the stupid "kill every living thing in the region" plan.
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Oct 28, 2020 00:42
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I started a new game on NV because of Sawyer's stream, console hardcore/Very Hard. Just got to Nipton at level 4 and wrecked the Legion with frag grenades, nice. Not sure what to do next (I got to Novac and got Boone's quest but guess what, game crashed  ).Skilled/Wild Wasteland, of course. My favourite bit of every playthrough is the useless low level scavenger. I did manage to grab all of the stuff to repair ED-E from Goodsprings and Lone Wolf Radio so had him up and running before hitting level 3, that helps a lot. Really enjoyed some of the Viper/Jackal fights on the way over, and saving the caravan from the Legion ambush got a bit hairy, although they held their own and all of them survived. It's been a long time since I played this!
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Oct 28, 2020 00:43
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One of the main design problems with New Vegas is that the legion detachment at Nipton is such a pushover you can wipe out if you try even a little bit, even as a starter character. They should be a crack legion squad, strong enough to wipe out the player reliably if they try to fight them, it would make more sense naratively and thematically.
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Oct 28, 2020 00:48
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steinrokkan posted:One of the main design problems with New Vegas is that the legion detachment at Nipton is such a pushover you can wipe out if you try even a little bit, even as a starter character. They should be a crack legion squad, strong enough to wipe out the player reliably if they try to fight them, it would make more sense naratively and thematically. You're saying this as someone who has (presumably) played the games multiple times, and knows to just scatter a bunch of mines along the path they walk and then throw a grenade and hope the game doesn't crash from all of the physics calculations. I remember getting absolutely wrecked by them the first time I played the game.
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Oct 28, 2020 00:54
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steinrokkan posted:One of the main design problems with New Vegas is that the legion detachment at Nipton is such a pushover you can wipe out if you try even a little bit, even as a starter character. They should be a crack legion squad, strong enough to wipe out the player reliably if they try to fight them, it would make more sense naratively and thematically. A lot of the time when I get there, I'm still rocking a Varmint Rifle and a 9mm pistol. They're basically the first guys you meet with any kind of DT and it can be a pretty rough fight if you haven't been hoarding dynamite.
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Oct 28, 2020 00:54
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Yeah you gotta know to lean on explosives, also if you don't have ED-E it's a lot rougher. During rope kid's stream he got to Novac via Black Mountain -> Hidden Valley -> Scorpion Gulch -> HELIOS One, which I'd never done before, always either go through Nipton or stealth up through Deathclawburg. It's actually pretty easy if you've got ED-E, his laser helps out with the handful of giant radscorps that are the real obstacle.
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Oct 28, 2020 01:00
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Maybe it's because I've played the game too much, but also I know a couple of people who simply brute forced their way into killing Vulpes on their first playthrough because they just assumed it was something they were meant to do. On the other hand, maybe if the legionnaires were stronger, they would've just tried harder / given up on the game in frustration. It's an inherent dilemma in the "no essential characters" design philosophy, I suppose.
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Oct 28, 2020 01:03
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I don't think it's really a dilemma. The game accounts for you killing them in Nintendo and adjusts accordingly. Edit: that was meant to say Nipton, but if the game accounts for you killing Vulpes on an entirely different console where the game never released then goddamn that really is thinking outside the box. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Oct 28, 2020 |
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Oct 28, 2020 01:13
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All this recent talk has made me want to start up NV again, like many others. But in regards to this specific ongoing conversation, I looked up Legion mods and Arizona Slaver Army looks compelling. It might makes Vuples and friends a challenge. steinrokkan posted:Maybe it's because I've played the game too much, but also I know a couple of people who simply brute forced their way into killing Vulpes on their first playthrough because they just assumed it was something they were meant to do. On the other hand, maybe if the legionnaires were stronger, they would've just tried harder / given up on the game in frustration. These folks need to play more WRPG's. My first WRPG was Dragon Age: Origins. Six years ago this or next month, I discovered the greatest thing about WRPGs is that you can talk with and deal with just about anybody, including crazed dragon cultists.
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Oct 28, 2020 01:17
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I've only ever encountered Vulpes outside Nipton once in ten years (if you don't kill him, he's the guy who delivers the Mark of Caesar), and I don't feel particularly deprived. I don't think it's bad design to make Vulpes expendable. I think people would be more frustrated if you couldn't fatally rebuke him at the first opportunity. FONV is one of the games better written and designed around an empty suit player character, and for that reason the flamethrower principle works in it better than it does in other games. It also doesn't get in the way of the game being interesting. It's a wide scope game with wide scope stakes, not personal ones.
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Oct 28, 2020 01:17
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NikkolasKing posted:All this recent talk has made me want to start up NV again, like many others. I believe Yanl made two Legion mods; Men from Flagstaff was the other one? But yeah, Arizona Slave Army really beefs up the DT on Legionaires so they can close into melee and lay on the hurt.
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Oct 28, 2020 01:19
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oh jay posted:A lot of the time when I get there, I'm still rocking a Varmint Rifle and a 9mm pistol. They're basically the first guys you meet with any kind of DT and it can be a pretty rough fight if you haven't been hoarding dynamite. Am I the only one who shot them dead with a service rifle and 72 rounds of 5.56mm AP that you can pick up from Ranger Jackson at Mojave Outpost?
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Oct 28, 2020 01:23
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Boogle posted:Am I the only one who shot them dead with a service rifle and 72 rounds of 5.56mm AP that you can pick up from Ranger Jackson at Mojave Outpost? Nope, it's definitely doable on normal difficulty.
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Oct 28, 2020 01:24
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steinrokkan posted:I wanted to side with FO3 Enclave because I'm a pathological contrarian and also I'm OK with anything Malcolm McDowell would have me do, but really, Eden's plan made no sense whatsoever, and even the game acknowledges it by having Autumn piss all over the stupid "kill every living thing in the region" plan. It's just the Enclave plan from Fallout 2, but now it makes even less sense. quote:It's an inherent dilemma in the "no essential characters" design philosophy, I suppose. The flamethrower design means that it feels like your choices matter. No matter what, you're going to see that mission failed text pop up, so it gives you a reason to do another playthrough. Fallout 3 making nearly everyone essential shows the limited scope of that game's writing - the game wants you to buy into a mindless "blam blam shoot the mutants in slow mo hero power fantasy" without offering any deeper character or subtext to chew on. Ceasar calmly and rationally trying to justify his crimes is great writing. He's a monster, but you can ask him WHY he's a monster and he'll tell you, and there's a huge variety of interactions you can have with him. Fallout 3 Enclave are bad because Fallout 2 Enclave were and people liked that plot in Fallout 2, I guess.
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Oct 28, 2020 01:26
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Boogle posted:Am I the only one who shot them dead with a service rifle and 72 rounds of 5.56mm AP that you can pick up from Ranger Jackson at Mojave Outpost? I was probably hundreds of hours into the game before I ever played with different ammo types.
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Oct 28, 2020 02:22
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oh jay posted:I was probably hundreds of hours into the game before I ever played with different ammo types. Same. I beat the whole game without bothering. In my various incomplete subsequent moded runs with things like Project Nevada, I have used ammo types because you kinda had to. But vanilla NV was way easier than vanilla FO3, I thought. In fact, I ended up just doing a melee run and I beat everybody to death with a flagpole. It's why I want to try to do a Pistols Only run for this time through. Pistols ,not revolvers. I like pistils more, I dunno why.
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Oct 28, 2020 02:28
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Chamale posted:What traits do y'all like to take? There's a few that seem so much stronger than the other ones. It could be interesting to select your two traits at random and then design a character around that. Here's the traits I generally take: almost always skilled and good natured
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Oct 28, 2020 02:38
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Sometimes I'll load up NV, pick Skilled and Good Natured, go a ways outside Goodsprings, "remake" my character, pick the same everything including traits and get doubled up on skill points. Then I feel bad and start again.
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Oct 28, 2020 02:58
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OldMemes posted:It's just the Enclave plan from Fallout 2, but now it makes even less sense. Skyrim was really the worst about this. The game is so afraid of players missing out on content that it feels like half the game's named NPCs are essential, and the one major questline that requires the player to make a choice (The civil war) has practically identical content regardless of what side you pick (And is also extremely boring). I do understand why developers do it—the vast majority of players aren't going to go through the game more than once, and all the insane people still posting in this thread a decade on are the extremely rare exceptions. Locking players out of content or implementing content that the majority of players will never experience can thus, on the surface, seem like a questionable use of resources—but man, it really is those roads less traveled that can give games the depth and flavor to be worth talking about a decade on.
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Oct 28, 2020 05:40
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JawKnee posted:almost always skilled and good natured Skilled is nuts. If you take the perk to give you 10% more XP later the game calculates it as exactly cancelling out the penalty from skilled. That means you can take a single perk to get 85 skill points- the normal amount you'd expect from a perk is about 15- for comparison, Comprehension gives you 94, but that's only if you go out of your way to find every single skill book in the game, which is staggeringly unlikely for most people, and it will be doled out slowly over the game. Skilled is a big boost right at the start, when you need it the most.
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Oct 28, 2020 05:59
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I want to say one of the VNV tweaks changes it to give an initial big boost to skills and then a significant curtailing of skill points per level, old school Gifted style.
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Oct 28, 2020 06:10
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I'll take up-front skill points over xp any day of the week, wouldn't even curtail it either, the game has waaaaaaaaay more xp to offer than you would ever need
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Oct 28, 2020 06:15
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Fallout 3 was poorly structured as an experience. The map is a mess, some areas are a massive gulf of emptiness and void, while some are incredibly dense (and sometimes impossible to really traverse because of walled-off areas only connected through obtuse subway tunnels), and there's not really any way to tell which is which. It's not like the main quests do that much to show you the whole world, and there's not many environmental cues to follow. The main quest also features some terrible, terrible ideas, although I guess a whole lot of the quests are about the same quality. Child town next to a supermutant encampment where adults are banished, about the same quality as the dorks claiming to be vampires or the town worshipping a tree man begging to die. Oh, there's also that one quest that I've seen far, far too many times where you meet some people out in the backwoods who are cheery but a little weird, and what could--cannibals, they're cannibals eating passersby, always cannibals. God loving dammit I'm sick of that loving quest that I can see from a mile away.
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Oct 28, 2020 07:03
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The Family quest in Fallout 3 made me throw up in my mouth. It's worst written, worst idea, worst presented quest Bethesda has ever done. WE'RE SO EMO WE NEED TO DRINK BLOOD EVEN THOUGH WE'RE NOT VAMPIRES. I'll just kill eight thousand rats in someones basement a million times over and over again than experience that poo poo again.
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Oct 28, 2020 07:20
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