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Erev posted:The Empire - as evil as the leadership and the vast majority of people working for it were - has almost always been shown to have had better government functionality than the New or Old Republic. This applies to both current and Legends canon - in each case the Republic is shown as being bloated, unable to stop squabbles and even armed conflict between their members. Half the Legends book has Leia trying to defuse the latest internal conflict and failing half the time. Thing is none of that is supported in the films themselves. The portrayal of the Empire as being an effective stable Government is an EU invention born from the 90's obsession with portraying Democratic Government as inefficient and substandard, when historically it's the exact opposite, Fascist states were run terribly compared to their democratic counterparts. Plus people wanted to play as the guys with cool uniforms in video games, and they had to make the Empire look better so as not to piss them off. So let's look at the Imperial controlled planets we see in the films. Contrary to Moff Herzog Tatooine under Imperial governance is a poverty stricken violent hellhole. The Empire lets organized crime operate with impunity, murders tribes of locals and settlers alike, and according to deleted scenes is forcibly turning people into sharecroppers so their profits can be given to big corporations from the core. The only other Imperial World we see is Alderaan. I trust I don't have to explain to you why Imperial rule ended up being a negative to Alderaan. The only other "Civilized" world we see in the OT is the non-Imperial Bespin. Which is conversely portrayed as a nice play specifically because it isn't] ruled by the Empire or it's big Corporations.
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Nov 21, 2020 09:28
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galagazombie posted:Thing is none of that is supported in the films themselves. The portrayal of the Empire as being an effective stable Government is an EU invention born from the 90's obsession with portraying Democratic Government as inefficient and substandard, when historically it's the exact opposite, Fascist states were run terribly compared to their democratic counterparts. Plus people wanted to play as the guys with cool uniforms in video games, and they had to make the Empire look better so as not to piss them off. So let's look at the Imperial controlled planets we see in the films. Contrary to Moff Herzog Tatooine under Imperial governance is a poverty stricken violent hellhole. The Empire lets organized crime operate with impunity, murders tribes of locals and settlers alike, and according to deleted scenes is forcibly turning people into sharecroppers so their profits can be given to big corporations from the core. The only other Imperial World we see is Alderaan. I trust I don't have to explain to you why Imperial rule ended up being a negative to Alderaan. The only other "Civilized" world we see in the OT is the non-Imperial Bespin. Which is conversely portrayed as a nice play specifically because it isn't] ruled by the Empire or it's big Corporations. I agree that if we limit ourselves down to movie canon that well does get much more dry. Still, the Empire did have a presence on Tatooine (corrupt as it was) versus no Old Republic or New Republic presence. I do also agree it was mostly writers that were Imperial apologists or just wanted to have a reason to play with shiny Imperial equipment and feel less bad though. (And, IMO, Imperial equipment IS a hell of a lot more cool.) Bespin was in the Imperial pocketbook however - even before the Falcon arrived. Though that, again, would get into a big continuity conundrum - which, if any, books are valid to expand upon what happened.
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Nov 21, 2020 09:42
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Erev posted:I'm actually more excited about the Dark Troopers than Ahsoka (I loving hate grey jedi and most other force spinoffs - though Ahsoka had her occasional decent moment). Yeah I was going to post something like this when people started talking about Snoke and Palpatine clones. I'm leaning on the side that they aren't clones but they're trying to inject baby yoda's blood into normal people to see if they get force powers and it fucks them up for whatever reason. Maybe the larger plan is to use it on other people but I think Gideon's immediate hope is to use it on himself.
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Nov 21, 2020 09:45
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Erev posted:This is pretty spot on. Grey Jedi suck. The Jedi Order is pretty horrible (though I am curious to see how they will pan out in High Republic). But the light side is, relatively speaking, less destructive than the dark side. I thought the point if grey was that the 'light' jedi had made rules that artificially distanced themselves, resulting in the potential for falling. I think the grey jedi argument would be that Anakin wouldn't have been isolated and alienated and the council wouldn't have been blind to both the suffering they caused among the people and the rug being pulled out from underneath them had they embraced a more all encompassing view of the universe and the force. The light was too weak on its own to affect the wlll of a counci of powerful space wizards, and in order to have the strength it needed, it accepted a deal with strings attached of which it was too blind to question appropriately. The grey jedi from kotor and late-stage luke would both say, "Uppity corporations rebelling against the republic? That sounds like a problem for democratically elected monarchs to solve. We'll be over here."
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Nov 21, 2020 09:52
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Grey Jedi, in my experience, is writers going 'but I want to use both Dark and Light side powers and upstage <<Jedi/Sith/Superweapon of the week>> in XXX's book!' And, as a 'drawback', they make them mopey little shits that have the occasional pang of guilt consisting of three paragraphs of 'oh, my darkness!' before it disappears until the next time they want to Force Lightning a schmuck.
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Nov 21, 2020 09:58
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Gray Jedi should be forced to use gray lightsabers. And wear a neat vest that says “Meh” on it.
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Nov 21, 2020 09:59
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Gonz posted:Gray Jedi should be forced to use gray lightsabers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ussCHoQttyQ
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Nov 21, 2020 10:06
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Frankenstyle posted:Dammit. You had me all excited until I found out I can't play it yet. Now you have me re-installing X-Wing alliance to scratch that itch.       though there is a currently playable explorable mos eisley that the same artist worked on as part of a larger group! https://www.artstation.com/artwork/mmwRa (dl in the description on the page!)
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Nov 21, 2020 10:34
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Basically the way the Force works in Star Wars, either you embrace the way of the Jedi and detach yourself from your ego so that you aren't tempted to use the Force for personal gain, or you don't and inevitably end up corrupted by the dark side even if your intentions started out pure like Anakin. There really isn't a middle ground. Unless you're this guy: In which case the middle ground is literally "refuse to do anything ever" which doesn't really help much. Even Jolee, the quintessential "grey" Jedi, ultimately comes down on siding with the light once you confront Bastilla in KOTOR. KOTOR 2 tries to do interesting things with this by having two characters who break this mold: Kreia who loving hates the Force and is actively plotting to destroy it, and the Exile who rejected the force so definitively that they created a wound in it, but even they struggle to escape this paradigm.
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Nov 21, 2020 10:47
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Frankenstyle posted:Dammit. You had me all excited until I found out I can't play it yet. Now you have me re-installing X-Wing alliance to scratch that itch. If you have the Steam or GOG versions of it, you should check out The X-Wing Alliance Upgrade Project. It's a constantly-updating mod project that aims to bring XWA into the 21st century, and has put out some really cool stuff lately. E: Sydin posted:In which case the middle ground is literally "refuse to do anything ever" which doesn't really help much. Even Jolee, the quintessential "grey" Jedi, ultimately comes down on siding with the light once you confront Bastilla in KOTOR. KOTOR 2 tries to do interesting things with this by having two characters who break this mold: Kreia who loving hates the Force and is actively plotting to destroy it, and the Exile who rejected the force so definitively that they created a wound in it, but even they struggle to escape this paradigm. Yeah, that's the thing that people don't seem to get about Kreia. She's not a Grey Jedi, she's an Anti-Jedi (and Anti-Sith for that matter as well). Wildly different concept.
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Nov 21, 2020 11:05
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galagazombie posted:Thing is none of that is supported in the films themselves. The portrayal of the Empire as being an effective stable Government is an EU invention born from the 90's obsession with portraying Democratic Government as inefficient and substandard, when historically it's the exact opposite, Fascist states were run terribly compared to their democratic counterparts. Plus people wanted to play as the guys with cool uniforms in video games, and they had to make the Empire look better so as not to piss them off. So let's look at the Imperial controlled planets we see in the films. Contrary to Moff Herzog Tatooine under Imperial governance is a poverty stricken violent hellhole. The Empire lets organized crime operate with impunity, murders tribes of locals and settlers alike, and according to deleted scenes is forcibly turning people into sharecroppers so their profits can be given to big corporations from the core. The only other Imperial World we see is Alderaan. I trust I don't have to explain to you why Imperial rule ended up being a negative to Alderaan. The only other "Civilized" world we see in the OT is the non-Imperial Bespin. Which is conversely portrayed as a nice play specifically because it isn't] ruled by the Empire or it's big Corporations. It's only at the start of ANH that they finally transitioned away from the old republic model of a senate to the feudal imperial system of moffs and regional governors.
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Nov 21, 2020 11:19
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I loved the "There's no guardrail on this!" line. Who is that blue gill-man? His voice sounds familiar.
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Nov 21, 2020 12:24
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the mandalorian season 2 episode 8: the secret of the ooze
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Nov 21, 2020 12:33
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nine-gear crow posted:If you have the Steam or GOG versions of it, you should check out The X-Wing Alliance Upgrade Project. It's a constantly-updating mod project that aims to bring XWA into the 21st century, and has put out some really cool stuff lately. Oh my. Thank you. So much. I knew they've been working on an updated version of OG X-Wing, but I had no clue this exists!
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Nov 21, 2020 13:10
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galagazombie posted:I loved the episode but for some reason I liked it too much if that makes any sense. Everything about about it seemed like it was a big season finale. Getting the gang back together, Assaulting the enemy doom fortress, escaping explosion of enemy doom fortress, higher than average SFX budget, stinger of next seasons threat, triumphant return of beloved wrecked hero ship. Almost like this was the season finale but they shuffled around the broadcast order. And last week you had Din meeting other Mandos, teaming up with them and then (reluctantly) helping them steal a ship. The week before you had Mando running afoul of the New Republic, an exciting atmo chase, spider monsters and then saved at the end by the NR guys. And before that you had a guy in Boba Fett's armor, Sand People team-up and the dragon. All the episodes are sort of "mini-movies."
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Nov 21, 2020 13:20
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Frankenstyle posted:Dammit. You had me all excited until I found out I can't play it yet. Now you have me re-installing X-Wing alliance to scratch that itch. If you haven’t tried it, the new Squadrons game is quite good. They’re also adding the B-wing and TIE Defender around Christmas!
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Nov 21, 2020 13:34
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fartknocker posted:If you haven’t tried it, the new Squadrons game is quite good. They’re also adding the B-wing and TIE Defender around Christmas! Wait gently caress what? They are adding the DEFENDER? Okay, I guess I'm playing again.
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Nov 21, 2020 13:43
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fartknocker posted:If you haven’t tried it, the new Squadrons game is quite good. They’re also adding the B-wing and TIE Defender around Christmas! Oh I know. It's the first thing that made me feel okay about dropping all that cash on VR. Didn't know about the B-Wing, though. That's been my favorite since the first time I saw it.
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Nov 21, 2020 13:50
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MrMojok posted:I loved the "There's no guardrail on this!" line. I liked that two, should have led to more complaining about Imperial designs and disregard for health and safety. It's Horatio Sans by the way.
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Nov 21, 2020 13:54
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BizarroAzrael posted:
Sanz. I thought I recognized the voice too but despite being in a ton of stuff I don't think I've seen any of it other than big hero 6. Just one of those voices I guess
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Nov 21, 2020 13:59
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Azhais posted:Sanz. I thought I recognized the voice too but despite being in a ton of stuff I don't think I've seen any of it other than big hero 6. Just one of those voices I guess Sans 
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Nov 21, 2020 14:08
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drunkill posted:They really should stop casting non-actors in this show so much. Having them is fine, but don't make them interact too much with eachother. I actually thought this was one of the better scenes in the episode, mainly because the officer guy showed some genuine sadness and empathy.
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Nov 21, 2020 14:20
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Erev posted:I agree that if we limit ourselves down to movie canon that well does get much more dry. Still, the Empire did have a presence on Tatooine (corrupt as it was) versus no Old Republic or New Republic presence.
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Nov 21, 2020 14:21
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Erev posted:I'm actually more excited about the Dark Troopers than Ahsoka (I loving hate grey jedi and most other force spinoffs - though Ahsoka had her occasional decent moment). Ahsoka isn't a grey Jedi, though? She's 100% a light side user who left the Jedi organization because they treated her like poo poo. But she doesn't gently caress around with the dark side at all. My understanding of grey Jedi is that they experiment with both the light and dark side without becoming "corrupted" by the dark side. That's not Ahsoka at all. She's just a light side force user with no formal organization, except when she works with the Rebels (or when she went back and worked with the Republic again at the end of the Clone Wars, but didn't officially rejoin the Jedi).
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Nov 21, 2020 14:35
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I really liked the scene with the Republic officer and Cara, not sure why people are dumping on it. There’s something very sad about the officer’s position. He does seem to get the issues involved and is not merely a stuffed shirt cop. But all he’s ultimately able to do is say “sorry for your loss of planet, here’s a badge so you can officially do the dirty job you’ve already been doing anyway”. They’ve already touched on this problem last season, and it couldn’t be more obvious why Cara doesn’t actively support the republic, so they wisely don’t restate it in dialogue. If that’s all the republic comes down to in the eyes of the common veteran shock trooper, no wonder it’s going to fall. Was Gideon’s comm officer the first female imperial we’ve seen in this show? The sequels have a much more diverse cast of fascists, but heretofore I feel this show has been sticking to the all-male imperials of the original trilogy.
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Nov 21, 2020 14:45
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:It was really off-putting to have our hero and Carl Weathers share a joke about the fish guy being enslaved for hundreds of years. They way they treated him felt incredibly off to me. "Haha, you're a slave!" "Hey, get over here now you piece of poo poo!" "Yeah, we destroyed your vehicle, you worthless fish!" "Hack that computer you disgusting blue gently caress!" The Mandalorian has been many things, but it's never been mean before. The fish guy, all things considered, was pretty loving cool. He managed every task put in front of him, shot a few stormtroopers, and discovered that the bad guys were going to keep coming for Baby Yoda. He was frightened and unwilling, but who wouldn't be?
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Nov 21, 2020 14:45
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Megillah Gorilla posted:The Mandalorian has been many things, but it's never been mean before. Last season there was a gag where a soldier punches a baby
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Nov 21, 2020 14:48
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Megillah Gorilla posted:They way they treated him felt incredibly off to me. It’s probably because he previously cooked the books, stole a bunch of money, and went on the run.
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Nov 21, 2020 14:49
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Megillah Gorilla posted:They way they treated him felt incredibly off to me. Fish guy stole money from an organization of bounty hunters and got him back. They are not nice people.
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Nov 21, 2020 14:59
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skasion posted:Last season there was a gag where a soldier punches a baby Yeah lol this show is mean as gently caress.
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Nov 21, 2020 15:04
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Kanine posted:
Haha, my game design instructor worked on Dark Forces II, Republic Commando, and a ton of other Lucas Interactive games right up until the buyout when they shitcanned everyone. TBH, the thing that really impressed me was his work on Armed and Dangerous. Man, Lucasarts interactive was a treasure, and it was lost in the most cynical way possible.
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Nov 21, 2020 15:05
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skasion posted:Was Gideon’s comm officer the first female imperial we’ve seen in this show? The sequels have a much more diverse cast of fascists, but heretofore I feel this show has been sticking to the all-male imperials of the original trilogy. At least one of the stormtroopers that was gunned down this episode was a woman.
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Nov 21, 2020 15:07
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CelticPredator posted:Yeah lol this show is mean as gently caress. But there's a kind of justice to its meanness. Imperial Scout guy punches Baby Yoda - then gets beaten to death by IG-11. Baby Yoda eats the frog eggs - then gets (temporarily) eaten by a big-rear end sea monster. Blue Fish Guy gets frozen in carbonite and treated harshly - because he stole a bunch of money from Greef's guild. Honestly, Blue Fish Guy kind of got off light. It would have been very Star Wars for Greef to just stick his frozen body in an prominent area with a sign with the word "Thief" on it attached to him.
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Nov 21, 2020 15:12
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Mywhatacleanturtle posted:Haha, my game design instructor worked on Dark Forces II, Republic Commando, and a ton of other Lucas Interactive games right up until the buyout when they shitcanned everyone. TBH, the thing that really impressed me was his work on Armed and Dangerous. Man, Lucasarts interactive was a treasure, and it was lost in the most cynical way possible. disney r dumb (though it's not like the problems started there)
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Nov 21, 2020 15:16
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Erev posted:Wait gently caress what? They are adding the DEFENDER? Makes sense, since otherwise the Imperial side has exactly one fighter if you don't get into EU stuff.
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Nov 21, 2020 15:45
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Makes sense, since otherwise the Imperial side has exactly one fighter if you don't get into EU stuff. I was just a big fan of the TIE Defender ever since TIE Fighter as a kid, really.
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Nov 21, 2020 16:11
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I'm pretty sure I'll be getting an oculus quest 2 and a flight stick next year to go with the PC I'm currently building, entirely for the purpose of disappearing into star wars cockpits forever
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Nov 21, 2020 16:11
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Without irony I truly enjoyed the blood lust of baby yoda screeching in glee as they destroy a bunch of tie fighters
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Nov 21, 2020 16:14
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Makes sense, since otherwise the Imperial side has exactly one fighter if you don't get into EU stuff. ROTJ has interceptors doesn't it
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Nov 21, 2020 16:15
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Tie Avenger supremacy
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Nov 21, 2020 16:18
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