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Also if I learned my friend was killed by a purple goop monster and that there's a purple goop monster out to kill everyone I think I'd start swinging too.
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Nov 19, 2020 22:00
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TheHan posted:Also if I learned my friend was killed by a purple goop monster and that there's a purple goop monster out to kill everyone I think I'd start swinging too. "Wow, 2020 really sucks, am I right, guys?"
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Nov 19, 2020 22:28
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Kennel posted:"Wow, 2020 really sucks, am I right, guys?" I feel like nobody in this room is successfully assigning agency to Goopy, aka The Hellyear That Smiles Like A Jerk. They're all trying to figure out which teenage girl is responsible for Cassidy dying when actually it's just something that looks kinda like a teenage girl, but is actually slime.
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Nov 19, 2020 23:16
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I just realized something. Zoe's going to definitely tell Rue about this, since it'd be irresponsible not to. Rue actually saw Goopy herself, meanwhile; when she was getting pincered by the two halves of the bug, Goops poked her hand out of the ground and guided one of them to her, which Rue saw, though she obviously lacked the necessary information to know the significance of the weird purple hand she saw. I wonder if that'll lead to something important. Rue's the only person besides Undine (and kind of Anemone but she doesn't count) to have actually seen Goopy (and lived); if she makes the connection between what Zoe is (probably) going to tell her and what she saw, that might lead to her actually trying to get in touch with other magical girls besides Zoe. Or maybe not; even if she does make the connection it might not seem like as big a deal to her as it actually is. Also nobody actually knows that Cassidy is dead, technically. Cassidy's encounter with Goopy is still unknown to anyone besides those involved and the audience (and, again, Anemone, who still doesn't count).
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Nov 20, 2020 01:49
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Roland Jones posted:I just realized something. Zoe's going to definitely tell Rue about this, since it'd be irresponsible not to. Rue actually saw Goopy herself, meanwhile; when she was getting pincered by the two halves of the bug, Goops poked her hand out of the ground and guided one of them to her, which Rue saw, though she obviously lacked the necessary information to know the significance of the weird purple hand she saw. This makes sense, especially since it could logically also lead to Rue reaching out to Tessa and potentially interrupting her downward spiral.
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Nov 20, 2020 04:51
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I don't think Rue is going to reach out to Tessa before Goops does. There's kind of an unresolved plot thread there.
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Nov 20, 2020 08:23
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Cup Runneth Over posted:I don't think Rue is going to reach out to Tessa before Goops does. There's kind of an unresolved plot thread there. Goop’s already got her claws in there (and left an indirect reachout on the window) so this could set up an interesting push-pull between the two sides.
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Nov 20, 2020 10:27
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Roland Jones posted:I just realized something. Zoe's going to definitely tell Rue about this, since it'd be irresponsible not to. Rue actually saw Goopy herself, meanwhile; when she was getting pincered by the two halves of the bug, Goops poked her hand out of the ground and guided one of them to her, which Rue saw, though she obviously lacked the necessary information to know the significance of the weird purple hand she saw.
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Nov 20, 2020 16:17
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https://www.sleeplessdomain.com/comic/chapter-16-page-32 "That is NOT what this is about Also HP should have told me about all this extremely personal burdens undine took like 3 weeks to share with HP in the first place"
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Nov 22, 2020 02:05
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Bud, it was literally not HPs place to reveal any of this to you. Chillllll.
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Nov 22, 2020 02:09
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Eh, remember that this is information about something that might directly threaten all of their safety, as demonstrated recently by one Cassidy. Sure, when you think through the way this is tangled up with Undine's personal concerns, you can understand the secrecy. But I can absolutely understand Bud's immediate reaction of frustration here, now that she's put it into words like this. Of course, Bud's need to feel knowledgeable is amplifying this, but it's not entirely unreasonable.
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Nov 22, 2020 02:18
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Ditocoaf posted:Eh, remember that this is information about something that might directly threaten all of their safety, as demonstrated recently by one Cassidy. It's the "you didn't trust me with the way more important stuff" that pushes it into entirely unreasonable. Your framing is absolutely not the crux of Bud's issue, by her own (unintentional) admission.
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Nov 22, 2020 02:40
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Bud is expressing the exact same basic, understandable anxiety as Cassidy, just with less physical assault and more guilt. And in both cases they're expecting way more out of Undine and HP than is fair.
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Nov 22, 2020 02:49
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Joe Slowboat posted:Bud is expressing the exact same basic, understandable anxiety as Cassidy, just with less physical assault and more guilt. I am hoping the other difference is that she probably can be reasoned out of it, in that the possibility still exists. On the other hand, I really do not like the prominence of that “Please replace the equipment before you leave” sign
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Nov 22, 2020 02:58
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Captain Oblivious posted:It's the "you didn't trust me with the way more important stuff" that pushes it into entirely unreasonable. Your framing is absolutely not the crux of Bud's issue, by her own (unintentional) admission. I think it's absolutely more important to tell people that a malicious entity targeting magical girls, with a confirmed body count, that is stalking the streets. I understand why HP didn't tell Bud but yeah, that's a really big detail to leave out. Had she known earlier I'm certain Bud feels like she could have prevented whatever fate they are imagining for Cassidy. The major through-line in this conversation is that everyone has varying levels of "in the know" and they kept and shared with each other different things. This has all led to the current conversation. It's very messy, someone is now dead and arguably they could not be dead, and everyone is trying to process this.
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Nov 22, 2020 03:00
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Cassidy didn't die because Undine didn't tell her about goops. Cassidy died because she threw a hissy fit, ditched all her support systems, and fought alone. It's also important to note that Undine was hesitant to share information because she feared it would make people less safe. It seemed to her telling people could get them targeted. It's not a simple situation where Undine was withholding information and putting people in danger just because of her feelings. Bud is being a butt here, and it's very interesting how much it's echoing Cassidy being a butt. Hopefully this time things go better.
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Nov 22, 2020 03:11
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Brought To You By posted:I think it's absolutely more important to tell people that a malicious entity targeting magical girls, with a confirmed body count, that is stalking the streets. I understand why HP didn't tell Bud but yeah, that's a really big detail to leave out. Had she known earlier I'm certain Bud feels like she could have prevented whatever fate they are imagining for Cassidy. The major through-line in this conversation is that everyone has varying levels of "in the know" and they kept and shared with each other different things. This has all led to the current conversation. It's very messy, someone is now dead and arguably they could not be dead, and everyone is trying to process this. That is not the argument Bud is putting forth here. Re-read what I posted, you're not in the same conversation.
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Nov 22, 2020 03:14
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Do you think her support network would have let her roam around alone if they knew Goops was on the prowl? At the very least the person that specializes in surveillance could have kept an eye on Cassidy and maybe the group could have had a reaction to the attack last night. Again, something I think is plausible for Bud to be feeling right now. Would everyone knowing what's up change the fact that Cassidy is a fangirl that can't accept HP giving someone else special attention? Not at all and I don't think that's being contested. Being in a group is equally not a viable solution since the fate of Team Alchemic is evidence of that. There isn't an easy solution here because the opposition can be anywhere, psychologically push people even during the day time, and precisely target you with creatures at night while keeping everyone else too busy to help. Like I said, this whole conversation is messy. Captain Oblivious posted:That is not the argument Bud is putting forth here. Re-read what I posted, you're not in the same conversation.
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Nov 22, 2020 03:21
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Honestly, I can sympathise with Bud. It always hurts when a friend you trusted and thought was being open with you turns out to have been hiding something important. No one likes being left out, especially when you've built so much of your identity around being included in things. Not that HP or Undine did anything wrong with the information, but Bud's feelings are valid too.
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Nov 22, 2020 03:24
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Brought To You By posted:I am addressing that line. My post was about how Bud, the information queen, feels slighted for not being told something this important. I don't feel like that is pushing this into an unreasonable area because I feel she's correct on some level. I don't think you're comprehending what you're reading as well as you think you are because Bud is talking about trust not the danger to others. That's why this is unreasonable. You, like others, are extrapolating Bud's words into an argument she is not making. This is about Bud feeling slighted for not being trusted. Trust was never even a factor in the decision. It's understandable why she feels that way but understandable doesn't mean not wrong.
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Nov 22, 2020 03:26
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Captain Oblivious posted:I don't think you're comprehending what you're reading as well as you think you are because Bud is talking about trust not the danger to others. That's why this is unreasonable. You, like others, are extrapolating Bud's words into an argument she is not making. I don't see how they aren't connected here especially since the entire conversation is centered around Undine and HP finally confiding in more than just each other. If HP hadn't told Bud some embarrassing childhood memory we're outright told she wouldn't care because that's "gossip". So the level of information she was kept out of, despite being confided in with this search for the golden creature can only be relevant to why she feels the way she does now. What she wasn't told here, is vastly more critical to everyone. That's my read on her statements and I can't see how that's a poor one.
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Nov 22, 2020 03:39
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Wittgen posted:Bud is being a butt here, and it's very interesting how much it's echoing Cassidy being a butt. Hopefully this time things go better.
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Nov 22, 2020 03:40
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Wittgen posted:Cassidy didn't die because Undine didn't tell her about goops. She absolutely did. It's not the only reason, but it's definitely one of the required ones - if she had been told about goops, what happened would almost certainly not have happened. This doesn't make it Undine's fault, because the outcome wasn't something she foresaw, but the chain of causation is still pretty clear.
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Nov 22, 2020 05:08
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What people seem to think would happen if she'd told Cassidy about Goops: Ah, yes, everything makes sense now. I am no longer jealous about you getting closer to HP than I am, nor distrustful of you. What would've actually happened: Ah, yes, everything makes sense now. You're keeping secrets, stealing HP from me, and there's some dangerous evil being hunting you. I'm going to try to drive you away from the group and/or beat some answers out of you. More information would not have stopped Cassidy from being Cassidy. That's the point of tragedy, you goofuses, the character is doomed by their fatal flaw, the circumstances are just the mechanics of how it happens.
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Nov 22, 2020 05:36
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I assume the argument about goops knowledge saving Cassidy is less "Cassidy wouldn't have gone solo" but "Cassidy would have treated goops with sufficient wariness when she was out and about"
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Nov 22, 2020 05:47
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If the crew knew earlier at the very least they wouldn't have been inclined to just let Cassidy run around by herself regardless of her present attitude. Whether that means we're looking at more casualties or less is pure speculation. Goops hasn't brought out a creature like the one that manipulated gravity against Team Alchemic. And the multi-armed one that attacked Undine and Heartful Punch didn't seem like that big a deal for a group to handle and only posed a threat because of Goops distracting Undine and pressing her triggers. Cassidy herself was blindsided by a literal mob-type enemy but again the power of distractions is very strong against small numbers and lone targets.
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Nov 22, 2020 05:51
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Bud also isn't accusing Undine of anything untoward or malicious, so I think this will be resolved amicably.
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Nov 22, 2020 05:52
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PMush Perfect posted:What people seem to think would happen if she'd told Cassidy about Goops: Ah, yes, everything makes sense now. I am no longer jealous about you getting closer to HP than I am, nor distrustful of you. "Cassidy being Cassidy" is not why the insecure teenager with a hero complex died, she died because she went out alone after getting kicked out of her friend group and got ambushed by the intelligent, monster-rule-breaking threat she didn't know about. I think it's fair to say she would not be dead the same way if things had gone differently; she would still be anxious, self-centered, jealous, and so on but she might not be dead and she certainly wouldn't have died the same way. You're right that she probably wouldn't have started treating Undine with understanding and compassion, but that's not what's in contention and she didn't die because she was an rear end in a top hat to Undine. Acting like people die in this comic because they were bad people, especially when Goops is involved, just doesn't hold up. Cassidy died because she was socially isolated, in part due to her own actions, and Goops took her shot. The same basic logic applies to how Team Alchemical got routed; the group was divided because of internal drama and Goops sent an elevator after them.
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Nov 22, 2020 07:05
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GlyphGryph posted:She absolutely did. It's not the only reason, but it's definitely one of the required ones - if she had been told about goops, what happened would almost certainly not have happened. This doesn't make it Undine's fault, because the outcome wasn't something she foresaw, but the chain of causation is still pretty clear. This is nonsense. There is a difference between some action being involved in a causal chain that leads to a result and that result being because of the action. For example, imagine that I'm talking on the phone with a buddy and I ask if he's doing anything special for his anniversary tomorrow. He goes, oh gently caress, I forgot. The town he is in is experiencing a horrible snowstorm, but he is determined to get something for his spouse, so he heads out anyway. He dies. Did my buddy die because I mentioned his anniversary? He wouldn't have remembered and thus wouldn't have gone out and died if I hadn't mentioned it. I might feel guilty about it and think it's my fault: if only I had kept my mouth shut. I knew he was forgetful and reckless. But no, the buddy in this example died because snow storms are dangerous and he made a very bad, risky choice. Cassidy died because Goops is a murderous rear end in a top hat, but also because Cassidy made a dumb, dangerous decision.
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Nov 22, 2020 07:36
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It's true. Magical girls are constantly warned in this universe not go out alone and that their job is dangerous and people die doing it. Just because it was more dangerous than she expected it to be on that particular night because of what Undine didn't tell her doesn't mean that it's her fault she died. She could have died even if Goops never noticed her at all simply because there were so many extra monsters and she got overwhelmed. She was killed by her own poor decision making.
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Nov 22, 2020 09:58
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I really think it continues to be the case that she was killed by Goops. Cassidy isn’t more responsible for what happened to her than Team Alchemical were, and Undine isn’t less involved in her death than Tessa was in theirs. In both cases, Goops coordinated a monster attack and broke the rules to make sure magical girls died.
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Nov 22, 2020 17:07
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Bud also isn't accusing Undine of anything untoward or malicious, so I think this will be resolved amicably. It leaves Harley, Cassidy, Vedika and anyone else who would've joined their group out entirely while also getting HP to ignore any wishes of Undine to pass on that info.
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Nov 22, 2020 18:30
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Wittgen posted:There is a difference between some action being involved in a causal chain that leads to a result and that result being because of the action. Wittgen posted:This is nonsense. Youre argument is literally "just because something happened because of something else doesnt it mean it happened because of that thing" and I literally have no idea what you are trying to argue, and I'm not sure you do either? Because it makes no sense.
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Nov 22, 2020 19:23
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Joe Slowboat posted:Undine isn’t less involved in her death than Tessa was in theirs. This is where you are completely wrong. Tessa chose to let her team fight alone. Undine did not choose for Cassidy to go out alone. Cassidy made that choice. I completely agree with you that it's wrong to say characters are dying in this comic because they're bad people. With the exception of Goops, there aren't even any really bad people in this comic. No, characters die because they make really bad choices. There are many parallels between the Team Alchemical tragedy and the Cassidy one, but one significant difference is that Tess was actively involved in the bad choices Team Alchemical made. Undine was not involved in the terrible choices Cassidy made. Edit: GlyphGryph, I'm saying causality is complicated, especially when people are involved. Perhaps another example will make it clear. Say I break up with someone and then they flip out and go shoot up their workplace. They would not have shot up their workplace if I hadn't broken up with them. Is it at all fair to say they shot up their workplace because I broke up with them? Wittgen fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Nov 22, 2020 |
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Nov 22, 2020 19:27
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To be fair if Tessa had been there she probably would have been dropped too and nobody would have survived.mThe whole thing happened really fast and the power of sneak attacks is strong in this series. Ironically her staying at home is what saved her and Undine's lives.
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Nov 22, 2020 19:50
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I like that the girls fighting has made the thread fight.
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Nov 22, 2020 20:14
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TheHan posted:I like that the girls fighting has made the thread fight. Which one of us gets gooped?
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Nov 22, 2020 21:24
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TheHan posted:I like that the girls fighting has made the thread fight. Sleepless Domain: The Threads Are Fightinggggggg
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Nov 22, 2020 22:11
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via mary cagle's twitter https://twitter.com/dmarielicea/status/1329495217645506560 https://twitter.com/dmarielicea/status/1329185266767192067 https://twitter.com/dmarielicea/status/1329168072125591560 more details on design notes on the artist's twitter/this thread flatluigi fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Nov 23, 2020 |
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Nov 23, 2020 00:36
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Unlucky7 posted:On the other hand, I really do not like the prominence of that “Please replace the equipment before you leave” sign Maybe if people would re-rack their loving weights we wouldn’t need that big of a sign!
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Nov 23, 2020 02:35
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