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Neurosis posted:GPW Superlight announcement today- if you're into paying exorbitant amounts. i totally am but im not sure i can sell my old gpw now that something new exists does it come with a teflon'ed charging puck for wireless or is that something that i need to buy a whole new mousepad for
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Nov 19, 2020 03:34
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Minorkos posted:I haven't tried this mouse specifically, and this comes down to personal preference, but I think these heavy, tall mice are kinda awful for hand pain and they promote a bad kind of grip. I don't think you should ever be "squeezing" your mouse when you grip it. What generally works for me is having my hand in its resting position, then laying it on the mouse and lightly gripping it mostly from the sides and top with the top half of my palm and my fingers. That way I barely even have to grip my mouse to move it, and it's more like I'm just moving my hand around. I don't think the lower half of your palm should even be a point of grip on your mouse. Most of these ergo mice don't even let you do that because they have these big rear end humps, and they instead drive you more towards some kind of claw grip, hence why I prefer low-profile, lightweight mice now. That said, that's just where I've landed personally in terms of grip so it may not work for everyone. As a long-term devotee of the logitech asymmetrical blob style, the extreme humps of their work-style mice like the MX Master is not good for gaming, but you're also super mis-reading how they work in practice. You aren't really squeezing them with the full palm, but using the thumb and the upper palm, on the bottoms of your finger joints. They're big mice but it's not a brick. You don't have to grip hard to move them around. The ergo advantage is that you aren't moving your hand or wrist, because that's bad for you. The way the shape tilts your hand & wrist over from horizontal means that your arm tends to elevate, because the wrist hinge isn't aligned to the table anymore. Letting your arm get lazy doesn't make your hand tilt up, it makes your hand slide down and rest on its side. Again, it keeps the wrist in a more neutral position. And the giant thumb indent isn't because they weigh 5 pounds and need more grip, it's to encourage input from the thumb for fine movement control. If you game with them -- particularly in low sensitivity with large motions, playing action games -- then you do start tightening your grip harder just from intensity and that isn't great. A long time ago I had a MX1000 which had the big hump, and I did get hand strain from lots of gaming. And that was when I was in my 20s! Thus why all their modern gaming mice are a compromise shape that has some of those features without being as extreme as a MX Master. If you like the flat mouse that's fine. And if you can use a flat mouse and keep your arm lifted all the time such that your wrist is neutral, that's great but you're in the minority. Oldschool mouse shapes like the Viper are generally terrible for ergonomics because your arm is on the table and your wrist is angled. Good posture & a good desk setup can correct that, but otherwise it's carpal city. The fact that it's really lightweight is nice for short-term finger strain, but long-term tendonitis and carpals isn't solved by a light mouse. However I can't give any major recommendations to Logi's current gaming mice because I still have a G700. In fact I've got two of them -- I took one look at the "lightspeed" lineup and immediately bought one of the last few G700s on amazon as they were being discontinued.
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Nov 21, 2020 21:21
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So.. I found out Steelseries makes an RGB mousepad too: Man that looks cool.. available in local store right now.
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Nov 22, 2020 16:00
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The Deathadder V2 (non-wireless) is currently 50% off on Amazon UK for black friday, not sure if I should pick it up or save up for the wireless one, hmm. I guess the question is also how easy it is to replace the battery in the V2 Pro if it starts to deteriorate.
ijyt fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Nov 22, 2020 |
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Nov 22, 2020 16:03
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Hi Thread, So I am using a Logitech MX518 that I bought in 2006, and still going strong! Recently I saw that Logitech re-released an "upgraded" MX518, and it is on sale at Best Buy for $20! https://www.bestbuy.com/site/logitech-g-mx518-wired-optical-gaming-mouse/6427398.p?skuId=6427398 However before I rush out to buy this, I thought to myself, maybe I should look at more modern options? I don't want to spend more than $50 on a mouse, because while I play lots of games, I don't play many multiplayer games much anymore. Unfortunately after reading this thread, and looking at dozens of articles and youtube videos, there isn't a real consensus of what is the "best" sub <$100 gaming mouse. Below are some of the options I was looking at (other than the already mentioned MX518). Logitech G502 Hero SteelSeries Rival 310 Razer Viper Ultralight Corsair Harpoon I can't read / watch reviews of these things anymore, because for every single mouse I look at, people either say "THIS IS A PIECE OF JUNK AVOID" or "BEST GAMING MOUSE EVER A+++ IT MADE ME AN ELITE GAMER" with little in between. So making a decision is getting a little frustrating.
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Nov 22, 2020 16:23
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I resisted the urge (partly thanks to the 25€ price difference) and bought a regular mouse mat. QCK XXL. This is big. And very nice. I didn't realize I needed this until I saw one friend using it in a LAN party. Large mats are nice. Veeeery nice.
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Nov 22, 2020 17:01
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Actually does anyone know if those mats are machine washable? I got a cheapo Aukey one from Amazon and while its nice, it does tend to attract dust and not want to let go.
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Nov 22, 2020 19:02
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ijyt posted:Actually does anyone know if those mats are machine washable? I got a cheapo Aukey one from Amazon and while its nice, it does tend to attract dust and not want to let go. I wouldn't machine wash any mousemat, that would be very tough on the adhesive that holds the mousing surface to the neoprene. wash mousepads in the sink with a bit of dishsoap and a scrubby sponge, that works fine for both fabric surfaces and hard ones. fabric surface pads like a qck take a little bit to dry off, so if you have a glass desk or something that sucks to mouse on, wait until evening so it can dry overnight.
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Nov 22, 2020 19:18
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Solaris 2.0 posted:Hi Thread, There isn't a consensus on what's "best" because the biggest difference between all of them comes down to personal preference: how do you hold the mouse? what works best for your hand size and shape? Aside from that, they're more or less interchangeable. The sensors and hardware in all of them are more than adequate. None of them are especially unreliable, or bulletproof. "Modern" options don't mean all that much, here. Mice have gotten lighter for the most part, but that was always an easy mod on most mice back when steel weights were standard. Wireless works well for gaming now, but you're looking at wired mice. RGB is, unfortunately, a thing. That's about it. Everything else is just about finding the right number of buttons and a shape that works for you. If you've liked the MX518, you can get another one for cheap. If there were things you didn't like about it, then you can probably find a mouse that addresses those problems. It's up to you what you choose, and you can't pick the Single Best Option from spec sheets or uninformed people yelling into a camera about technology. One final thing: don't be afraid to use different mice for different jobs. For instance, I use a dirt cheap Logitech G203 for playing videogames - it's tiny, light, and works well for a fingertip grip, the sensor is more than adequate, and I can set a permanent "gaudy lighting off" profile that's not dependent on their garbage software running in the background. Needs met. For work, though, I've also got an MX Vertical, which is a lot comfier when I'm in front of a computer for 4-5 hours at a time.
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Nov 22, 2020 19:27
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Thanks for your input! I decided to just get the updated Logitech MX518 because for $20, its a steal, and it's so comfortable in my hand I have a hard time imagining using another wired mouse. Also, I don't really care for the RGB lighting everyone loves these days. Even my Corsair K63 is just red, and I keep the lights on the lowest setting (only use them to help me see when I have the lights in my room on low). I do want a nice wireless mouse at some point, but will wait until my next PC build before I splurge on that.
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Nov 22, 2020 21:32
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K8.0 posted:It's not that lowering voltage damages a switch. It would be expected that most failed switches would work fine in their spec voltage range. As switches wear (all physical and electrical actuation causes damage to switches), they become less reliable outside their design parameters.  makes total sense from that angle.
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Nov 23, 2020 15:50
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Klyith posted:The ergo advantage is that you aren't moving your hand or wrist, because that's bad for you. The way the shape tilts your hand & wrist over from horizontal means that your arm tends to elevate, because the wrist hinge isn't aligned to the table anymore. Letting your arm get lazy doesn't make your hand tilt up, it makes your hand slide down and rest on its side. Again, it keeps the wrist in a more neutral position. I guess that makes sense, although I'm not sure how effective that is in practice. I did put a bit of a disclaimer how flat mice are a personal preference for me, and it's likely my understanding of ergo mice has been somewhat ruined by using one that's too big for me for the past 3 years or so. That said, for now I like having my entire hand, forearm and fingers perfectly level. I did get an adjustable desk and set it quite low to make sure I can maintain these ergonomics. I would assume a lighter and smaller mouse might help you maintain "good form" more easily, and thus keep long-term problems away since you don't need to use nearly as much force to manipulate it, but I don't know. Although carpal tunnel hasn't been a problem for me yet, but I can't say it never will either, so I can't really argue that point in any way.
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Nov 23, 2020 15:54
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Minorkos posted:I guess that makes sense, although I'm not sure how effective that is in practice. I did put a bit of a disclaimer how flat mice are a personal preference for me, and it's likely my understanding of ergo mice has been somewhat ruined by using one that's too big for me for the past 3 years or so. That said, for now I like having my entire hand, forearm and fingers perfectly level. I did get an adjustable desk and set it quite low to make sure I can maintain these ergonomics. I would assume a lighter and smaller mouse might help you maintain "good form" more easily, and thus keep long-term problems away since you don't need to use nearly as much force to manipulate it, but I don't know. Although carpal tunnel hasn't been a problem for me yet, but I can't say it never will either, so I can't really argue that point in any way. An adjustable desk / ergonomically correct overall body position is a way bigger deal than mouse shape for sure. In fact I think a lot of ergo keyboard & mouse designs are about salvaging good ergo from bad desks. The ergo blob shape don't work for everyone, and if they pushed you into a tight claw grip that's bad and you shouldn't go back. But for the people it do work for, it helps set the hand in a good position and I wanted to explain how that worked. Your post, despite the personal disclaimer, was very definite about them forcing a claw grip when that isn't what they're supposed to do. I think size & weight also don't strictly correlate to anything ergonomically, but have a lot of personal preference impact. Even a heavy mouse is not much force to push around if you have a proper mousepad. And the other thing is that cord vs wireless is easily as big a factor to movement resistance. I've loved wireless mice since they first became good enough to really use, because the asymmetrical tug of mouse cord is more bothersome to me. (However, the weight does tend to make me set DPI/sensitivity high enough that I don't have as frequent liftoffs. Not very pro gamer.)
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Nov 23, 2020 17:56
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Klyith posted:However I can't give any major recommendations to Logi's current gaming mice because I still have a G700. In fact I've got two of them -- I took one look at the "lightspeed" lineup and immediately bought one of the last few G700s on amazon as they were being discontinued. poo poo, they still haven't made a replacement? Mine is starting to "double click" and it's the perfect balance of extra buttons without GAMING LEDS.
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Nov 25, 2020 03:08
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After a lot of pondering trying to decide the best wireless mouse to get, it finally came down to a choice between the Logitech G305 and the G703. The G305 had been discounted to £33 over Black Friday so was an absolute steal at that price, but all evidence suggested it was just too small for my hand to use comfortably. The G703 had been discounted from £85 to £65, which wasn’t bad, but I noticed Amazon had one with a damaged box from their warehouse available for £39. Then for whatever reason it applied another promotion and brought it down to £27. So yeah got an £85 mouse for £27 and I’m thrilled. It’s a great mouse and fits perfectly in my hand, and performance wise works perfectly while being about 3m or so from the receiver.  
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Nov 25, 2020 09:41
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crepeface posted:poo poo, they still haven't made a replacement? Mine is starting to "double click" and it's the perfect balance of extra buttons without GAMING LEDS. The G604 is the closest to the old G700, but it's not quite the same. However, you're in luck! I took pictures the last time I fixed my mouse button contacts so I could write a tutorial, then never posted it. So here is how you can make your mouse last for many many years. You will need: small screwdriver, xacto knife, scotch tape, and rubbing alcohol or electric contact cleaner We begin, as all good stories, in medias res:  Notes on opening up mice: 1. the blade is useful to start peeling the teflon pad, you can kinda slip it under and lever up the edge. 2. logitech mice with the mechanical wheel switch for free-spin should be switched to the free-spin mode before pulling the top shell 3. mice with extra buttons probably have a cable connecting the top shell to the main board optional but helpful is a non-stick thing to put the teflon pads on (I've got a bit of label sticker paper there) Opening the microswitch:   Carefully pop one of the sides over the latch, and remove the top. Don't lose the tiny white plastic button bit. Remove the leaf spring bit from the switch:  A thing I like to do is have a loop of scotch tape to hold onto these tiny bits.  Clean the contacts:  Also clean the contact area of the leaf spring, gently. The contact part is that bump on the right in the previous pic. Optional step not pictured: if your mouse button is feeling mushy, you can restore a firm click by straightening the curved part of the leaf spring a little bit. That's what pushes back on the button. Very carefully! You're not flattening it, just making it a little less curved. Now hook the leaf spring back onto the switch. This is the annoying part. I don't have a good method to tell you, it just takes me a few minutes of fiddling and eyestrain every time. Maybe tweezers would help? The trick to putting the switch shell back on:  a bit of scotch tape to hold the button bit in place as you put it together. Tada! Now put the rest of your mouse back together, don't forget to plug the cables for the top shell back in.
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Nov 25, 2020 17:13
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Klyith posted:The G604 is the closest to the old G700, but it's not quite the same. I went G700s -> G604 and it's an upgrade in just about every way. The only sidegrade is that two of the top buttons turn into thumb button #5 and #6 - I prefer this layout as it's better for gaming, but YMMV. You get a better scrollwheel with a coating that doesn't wear off, and massively improved battery life with replaceable batteries. Oh yeah, there's actually one downgrade - you need to use the new software (G-Hub) which is worse than the old LGS in almost every way. At least it's functional now, if clunky.
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Nov 25, 2020 18:59
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Klyith posted:The G604 is the closest to the old G700, but it's not quite the same. I found it easier to desolder and replace the whole microswitch but this is a very good write up
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Nov 25, 2020 20:14
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Klyith posted:... Pro tip: do any fine tweezer work in an uncarpeted and relatively picked-up room. Tweezers have a magical ability to launch things across the room in ways that don't seem possible, and the carpet monster is always hungry.
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Nov 25, 2020 20:40
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Blue Footed Booby posted:Pro tip: do any fine tweezer work in an uncarpeted and relatively picked-up room. Tweezers have a magical ability to launch things across the room in ways that don't seem possible, and the carpet monster is always hungry. Better yet, inside a large clear bag like a zip lock or turkey roasting bag.
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Nov 25, 2020 20:44
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NihilCredo posted:I went G700s -> G604 and it's an upgrade in just about every way. The only sidegrade is that two of the top buttons turn into thumb button #5 and #6 - I prefer this layout as it's better for gaming, but YMMV. You get a better scrollwheel with a coating that doesn't wear off, and massively improved battery life with replaceable batteries. Like, if both my 700s died I'd get a 604, but I prefer the button layout and other features of the 700 so I'm gonna keep using mine until they're worn out. It's also worth noting that the 604 is pretty recent and previous models were quite different & not as good. Also when the lightspeed stuff came out it was hella expensive because they doing all wireless charging stuff, which was the main reason I bought one of the last cheap 700s. As for the 700 itself, it has some big flaws but I like it. I don't have any problem with the rubber on the scrollwheel wearing off, but the battery life is real. It doesn't bother me though -- I find the integrated charging makes up for it. I have no trouble remembering to plug it in at the end of the day, and using a desktop I always have USB power available. The main thing is that it chews through the battery fast enough that you actually run into the battery's charge cycle life, particularly on LSD NIMH (ie eneloops). So you need to replace the battery every so often, 9 months to a year. The fact that G-hub is worse than LGS is really disappointing, because it's not like LGS was perfect. Blue Footed Booby posted:Pro tip: do any fine tweezer work in an uncarpeted and relatively picked-up room. Tweezers have a magical ability to launch things across the room in ways that don't seem possible, and the carpet monster is always hungry. One of the reasons to get a GN Modmat or something like it is that the soft surface absorbs some bounce. Dropping a tiny screw or part, it's got a better chance to stay on the table rather than ricochet ten feet away. But really, the most important tool is patience.
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Nov 25, 2020 21:05
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The Electronaut posted:Better yet, inside a large clear bag like a zip lock or turkey roasting bag. This is brilliant!
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Nov 25, 2020 21:10
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I'm looking into the Kone Pure Ultra to replace a doubleclicking g203, but the QC issues are concerning. Should I go for it, or are there any similar alternatives in shape? I have small hands (16x8.5cm) and a tendency to palm my g203 (which is probably one reason why I'm getting mad cramps, for trying to palm a claw mouse)
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Nov 26, 2020 00:38
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Are there any shells for the Glorious mice without the dumb holes?
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Nov 26, 2020 01:06
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ijyt posted:Are there any shells for the Glorious mice without the dumb holes? ur dumb
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Nov 26, 2020 02:33
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I have a recurring problem with mice where they randomly stop working, and they make the keyboard stop working as well, until I restart. Each time, I fell back to using a wireless mouse that uses up a battery every one or two weeks until I got a replacement, and the new mice had no problems, at least for a few months to a year -- I haven't kept track of the time. I assume it's because the cord frayed or it fell off my lap a bunch of times, sometimes because I let it rest in the wrong position while busy with something else, and other times because I bolted right up because someone was calling for me and forgot that I needed to be careful. Seeing as how I've installed a new hard drive with a fresh Windows 10 installation, I've followed the advice at https://www.minitool.com/news/mouse-keeps-disconnecting.html and disabled USB selective suspend under Power Options, and I've changed the power settings for the Root USB Hub. I think I did the first one back when I had my old hard drive and Windows 7, but I was unaware of the Root USB Hub trick. It's been an hour and it hasn't malfunctioned yet. I'll give it a few days and see. galenanorth fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Nov 26, 2020 |
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Nov 26, 2020 04:57
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The Electronaut posted:Better yet, inside a large clear bag like a zip lock or turkey roasting bag. Clear garbage bag will also do, and give you room to work. I myself first heard about this trick coming from guns, where selector detent springs on ARs have the infuriating tendency to go pew! the second you free them, and then you've got a gun that's down until you get a replacement.
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Nov 26, 2020 05:45
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Thanks bud!
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Nov 26, 2020 10:47
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ijyt posted:Are there any shells for the Glorious mice without the dumb holes? The Glorious Model O and Model D shells themselves are essentially copies of Zowie FK and EC shells respectively, though I'm not sure if that helps with what you're asking
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Nov 26, 2020 17:25
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Lord Ludikrous posted:After a lot of pondering trying to decide the best wireless mouse to get, it finally came down to a choice between the Logitech G305 and the G703. I can't quite tell from your photos but is your RGB lighting on the scroll wheel kind of splotchy? I just got the G703 as well and from any angle other than straight top down, it looks like the inner paint job (?) was kind of botched and the lighting isn't even close to looking uniform and clean. I also get some buzzing/bouncing from the thumb buttons since they sometimes briefly stick to my thumb and extend outwards before bouncing back and buzzing. I read about that in some reviews and am definitely experiencing that as well. The mouse itself though is really good and I find it moves slightly smoother than the Razer Mamba Wireless and Razer Basilisk Hyperspeed (which is on sale for 40) I'm also testing. However due to the issues above and GHub being quite cumbersome to use, I might just stick with the Hyperspeed with the intention to eventually get the Basilisk Ultimate. I really like the shape of this mouse over the others.
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Nov 26, 2020 17:51
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hmmxkrazee posted:I can't quite tell from your photos but is your RGB lighting on the scroll wheel kind of splotchy? I just got the G703 as well and from any angle other than straight top down, it looks like the inner paint job (?) was kind of botched and the lighting isn't even close to looking uniform and clean. Nope, as far as I can tell the scroll wheel is fine and I'm not experiencing any issues like you've described. Admittedly I've not had it for very long, but hopefully it will stay that way. Historically I've had an excellent experience with Logitech mice; before I knew gaming mice were a thing I used their standard ones for years. Got an MX518 and used that for 7 years until the scroll wheel began to malfunction, and then replaced it with a G500. Used that for 7 years, and the only reason I replaced it with the G703 is because I needed a wireless mouse for my living room setup. The mouse itself works just great and will likely be sold onto a friend. If I don't have to replace the G703 until 2027 I'll be a happy bunny. I've had excellent experiences with their keyboards too, but sadly Logitech don't appear to make lapboards. Shame really as I'd have bought one in a heart beat, but ended up going with Corsair.
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Nov 27, 2020 12:41
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any other Nightsword users? I love this thing's ergo and the thumbrest and if they had a wireless version I'd probably upgrade. I also have the heaviest set of weights in, and I am having a friend who does metalworking making me a second set from solid steel ingots, but, I'm crazy and also like my mouse to work as a flail in an emergency
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Nov 27, 2020 15:23
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it's likely to sell out but the Viper Ultimate is on sale for $80 (from $130) on Amazon
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Nov 27, 2020 15:26
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Klyith posted:[G700 repair guide] I just had to replace the glide pads and yeah the battery life is an issue but it didn't bother me since I started using Eneloop Pro with the mouse. They last long enough and I can recharge the mouse on USB if I don't have a charged battery lying around. NihilCredo posted:I went G700s -> G604 and it's an upgrade in just about every way. The only sidegrade is that two of the top buttons turn into thumb button #5 and #6 - I prefer this layout as it's better for gaming, but YMMV. You get a better scrollwheel with a coating that doesn't wear off, and massively improved battery life with replaceable batteries. But hey I'm sure they will soon release a few more lightweight "standard" shape mice for e-sports pro-gamers 
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Nov 30, 2020 11:21
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There's no usb charging on the g604 because it uses a AA battery every 4-6 weeks.
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Nov 30, 2020 11:34
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I still prefer having the feature 
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Nov 30, 2020 11:50
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I'm looking to replace a G402. I saw that MX518 sale mentioned earlier. I don't need the G402's gamer aesthetic, but the extra button placement is much more convenient on it. $20 is hard to beat, though. The G502 has a big Cyber Monday deal, at only $40, and I like having lots of extra buttons. But I'm a bit wary of logitech at this point. All three I've owned have had scroll wheel button issues. The G402's is completely unresponsive now, but it was always hard to press. Kind of want to try a different manufacturer, but I don't see any great deals atm. The base Harpoon's pretty cheap, but I think I'd miss the 2 extra buttons. e:also, anything to for certain avoid when buying a mouse mat? Rinkles fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Nov 30, 2020 |
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Nov 30, 2020 19:35
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Rinkles posted:e:also, anything to for certain avoid when buying a mouse mat? I dunno if anyone even makes pads like this anymore, but a long time ago I had a pad that was a hard surface with prominent texture, and over time it ate the mouse teflon. Everything started out great because the texture reduced the contact area, so between that and being hard it had great mix of low friction and quick stop. But after half a year the teflon pads were worn down and it sucked. If you're getting a pad with a fabric surface, get stitched edges if you're getting anything pricey. I have one of the Artisan pads that got hyped a number of years ago. I like the surface a lot, but the fabric started separating on the wrist edge. On a cheap $15 pad that's like, ok throw it out and get a new one. But on a $40 pad it sucks. I cut back the edge a bit and got out needle & thread to stitch it myself. (I see that artisan has stitched edges on their pads now. So I can recommend them if you're ok with a more expensive pad, and can navigate their extremely confusing array of product options. Aside from the edge, mine has held up really well. After over 4 years of use, it's got enough wear to have a noticeable change in friction between the center & side, but not so much that it feels bad to use. I'll probably get another one soon.) orcane posted:Oh this is great, I'll consider it the next time my OG G700 develops double clicking. Note to all that this refurbish method is good for all mice with that switch type!
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Nov 30, 2020 20:58
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Heh, the G502 has 3 distinct ways of pressing the scroll wheel, each with a programable function. I guess that's cool, but I worry about the longevity.
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Dec 1, 2020 01:14
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Rinkles posted:Heh, the G502 has 3 distinct ways of pressing the scroll wheel, each with a programable function. I guess that's cool, but I worry about the longevity. The side-to-side wheel thing? Logitech mice have had that for a while now, I don't think it has any lifespan drawbacks. It's a simple pivot that holds the rest of the mousewheel parts. IMO the rachet-vs-freespin switch part is much more complex mechanism. The only downside is that all the mechanical gubbins make it harder to clean the mousewheel, if you have crud that makes the sensor go haywire or accumulated finger grime that you want to scrub off. Simple wheels you can generally pop the wheel right out and clean it with soap and water. Logi mice with complicated wheels are more difficult.
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Dec 1, 2020 02:46
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