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Evil Fluffy posted:I think the series needs to tone down its number of POV characters. Storytelling doesn't need to have literally every single thing from multiple angles because it just brings the story to a crawl and makes it harder to want to follow individual characters when they're just one in a large crowd so you only get a little of each. Brandon is aware of this, and has said that he is actually aiming to keep the number of viewpoints to a manageable level. That's why Rock leaves the story and we don't get much from Bridge 4 outside of Rlain. He could have easily made this point much larger.
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Nov 23, 2020 03:06
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I think part of the difficulty there is that trying to cut down on viewpoints while also trying to draw the various cosmere systems together is going to be difficult.
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Nov 23, 2020 03:09
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Fezz posted:Brandon is aware of this, and has said that he is actually aiming to keep the number of viewpoints to a manageable level. That's why Rock leaves the story and we don't get much from Bridge 4 outside of Rlain. He could have easily made this point much larger. But like getting rid of characters people like to focus on pointless Eshonai and Venli stuff is an awful way to go about it. PASS THE MASH fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Nov 23, 2020 |
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Nov 23, 2020 03:13
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PASS THE MASH posted:But like getting rid of characters people like to focus on pointless Eshonai and Venli stuff is an awful way to go about it. Eh, I kind of liked those. Plus it gave us how this whole poo poo-show kicked off, with Venli being involved and all
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Nov 23, 2020 03:21
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Was it RoW or another book where the focus was going to be Szeth, but Sanderson changed his mind? It was a pretty big let down to go from him declaring he was going to free his people to finding out that he just kind of sat around in a cell for a year. It was like his whole character arc just got put on pause for a book which fits if he was originally going to be the focus character, but that got changed.
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Nov 23, 2020 03:28
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Book 3 was going to be Szeth or Dalinar and he wrote both sets of flashbacks and realized that Dalinar's worked better in book 3. So book 5 might just take less time to write since he won't have to start from scratch on the flashback chapters.
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Nov 23, 2020 03:50
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Speaking of PoV characters, I read somewhere that one of the books was going to revolve around Lift. I'm wondering if that's still happening or if that sort of evolved into the Edgedancer novella, which I haven't gotten around to reading yet. Lift stands out as one of my favorite Stormlight characters so far, maybe because her interlude chapter in Words of Radiance was such a wonderful, self-contained story that struck me as one of the best bits of fiction Sanderson has ever written, and maybe because she's such a comically over-the-top anime character. I'm about two thirds of the way through Oathbringer, and really enjoying it. I've seen a lot of complaints about it being slower paced than the first two novels and a bit weaker than them, but I'm not really feeling that. At this point we've spent so much time with these characters that it's just fun and comfortable to follow them through a slightly lower-key, more exposition-filled series of adventures. Though I'm not sure if Sanderson will ever top Words of Radiance, since that whole book was just a series of escalating, epic moments.
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Nov 23, 2020 04:43
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Blastedhellscape posted:Speaking of PoV characters, I read somewhere that one of the books was going to revolve around Lift. I'm wondering if that's still happening or if that sort of evolved into the Edgedancer novella, which I haven't gotten around to reading yet. her "book" is going to be somewhere in the back half of the series (where books 6-10 make up their own storyline, like 1-5 do)
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Nov 23, 2020 04:49
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ROW / mistborn i really want to know what kelsier and the ghostbloods end game is here. All we really know of where kelsier left off is that he saved the southern scadrial people and got pegged to a body. The ghostbloods seem almost too comically evil given what we have seen kelsier up to before. Is there some bigger plan in play? Is kelsier actually a little more evil now?
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Nov 23, 2020 07:51
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PASS THE MASH posted:But like getting rid of characters people like to focus on pointless Shallan and Adolin stuff is an awful way to go about it. I enjoyed the Venli/Eshonai flashbacks. But they do feel misplaced. Wouldn’t it have made more sense to sprinkle them throughout books 1,2,3 instead of dump them all in book 4? it would have made the switch from Eshonai to Venli in OB a lot less jarring if we knew her better through these flashbacks. Her becoming a radiant felt entirely unearned in OB based on what we knew about her as we mostly knew her from Eshonai’s POV.
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Nov 23, 2020 16:54
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I was really interested in what Adolin was doing. I didn't care at all about Shallan, but his stuff was good. I just wish it actually had some payoff like honorspren bonding people in the tower at the end, or any sort of interaction after the trial with that one Adolin saved or more about how honorspren society wasn't actually as unified as it looked. There was so much there that could have led to better storytelling than pages and pages on how all the different types of magical elevators worked. Like did we ever get any explanation on why a bunch of deadeyes were congregations outside the fortress?
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Nov 23, 2020 17:07
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RoW I am more than a little surprised at the disparity among which characters everyone likes. I went back and skimmed through some stuff after putting the book down for a couple days. There’s a decent amount of bloat but outside of trimming up navani/kaladin under siege in the tower, it all kind of needs to be there. Shallan has been my least favorite character up until now, but I feel like she was way more entertaining in RoW and we finally had some progress. I don’t get the hate for Adolin. He’s one of the most interesting characters in the whole series. Anyway, what’s the deal with Renarin? I really, really want more of his scheming. Where the gently caress did a Vasher go? How long until I tell my friends that a talking sword is one of my favorite parts of the cosmere?
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Nov 23, 2020 18:30
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Strumpy posted:ROW / mistborn
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Nov 23, 2020 19:28
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Do you think Szeth and the Heralds are vulnerable to emotional allomancy like a Koloss or Kandra? I don't know if that's specifically a hemalurgy thing.
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Nov 23, 2020 19:38
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mossyfisk posted:Do you think Szeth and the Heralds are vulnerable to emotional allomancy like a Koloss or Kandra? I don't know if that's specifically a hemalurgy thing. mistborn that's specifically a backdoor the Lord Ruler put in in designing them to maintain control, so definitely not CapnAndy posted:I mean, we very much don't know. Kelsier was always not a very nice guy, but "what is Kelsier up to" is quite the hanging question in Mistborn too at the moment. yeah, Kelsier may be more evil now, but his goals aren't nearly as mundane as just what we know (trying to get offplanet, managing being a shadow's effects) -- there MUST be some bigger plan, no way that character is just amassing power for himself with no specific enemy he's opposing, i don't think it's in his nature at this point, fully expecting him to be an antihero or a villain doing bad things for a good purpose. it's just totally unclear what the Ghostbloods are actually trying to do, stuff like working with Sja-Anat and moving investiture offworld is definitely a means for them, but it can't be their end eke out fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Nov 23, 2020 |
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Nov 23, 2020 19:55
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eke out posted:mistborn that's specifically a backdoor the Lord Ruler put in in designing them to maintain control, so definitely not Who did Kelsier hate? Nobles. Who put the system in place? The Lord Ruler. Who put the Lord Ruler in place? The Shards. Kelsier must attack and dethrone the people who attacked and dethroned God.
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Nov 23, 2020 20:52
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Democratic Pirate posted:Who did Kelsier hate? Nobles. Who put the system in place? The Lord Ruler. Who put the Lord Ruler in place? The Shards. it's, frankly, as good a theory as any sixteen people got together and killed god and set up their own fiefdoms with the stolen power, which they've mismanaged to the point where uncountable millions are dead and/or actively suffering
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Nov 23, 2020 21:02
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RoW - Anyone have any ideas regarding a Whimsy based magic system? We already have one based on magic chickens for a Shard that is definitely not whimsical so I’m at a loss here. Maybe something in line with incredibly powerful Silly Walking. Ooh, maybe it’s a Pun based system!
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Nov 23, 2020 21:07
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RoW spoilers up through the end of Part 2 This book feels like a super slow burn. Love the reveal of the Sibling being alive and awake, just in deep hiding. While I found all of Navani's fabrial engineering information fascinating, it probably could have been trimmed down or turned into an appendix of some kind. The explanations felt David Weber-esque at times. Kaladin starting a PTSD support group was something I was not expecting, but it felt very 'in character' for Kaladin to do. Of course he wouldn't be able to stay on the sidelines though - I'm very curious to see how the aftermath of the invasion will play out. The Fused still think the Sibling is asleep, so there has to be follow up to that. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a long running guerilla warfare Kaladin sparks until Navani figures out how to reverse the Voidlight infusion Rabonial did and then it's gonna be balls to the walls action as the newly refreshed Radiants wake back up to play. I'm a big fan of any travel through Shadesmar. When Adolin pulled his greatsword out to fight the humans, I couldn't help but see it in my head as a Berserk/Guts moment and it definitely didn't disappoint. I was also pleasantly surprised that Adolin saving the honorspren did absolutely nothing to help them get into the city - Adolin offering to be put on trial was something I didn't predict, but it makes the most perfect sense to try. Taravangian continues to confuse me with his actions. His request was for "the capacity to save humankind", and yet decides that the entire Diagram was just about saving Khabranth? That feels like a pretty dumb leap of logic to me, unless there's some crazy moment later on where Ubersmart T reveals his ultimate master plan. He has said that he hasn't been super smart for over a year though... another day like that has to be coming soon. While ubersmart T is a sociopathic monster, I still want to see him match wits with Odium. Especially now that dumb T saw the hole in Odium's logic. Interesting note in the middle of one of the interludes, how Odium (the Shard) loves being questioned and arguments, but Rayse doesn't. That seems like it might be important later. Heading into part 3 later this afternoon. I'm really enjoying it so far!
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Nov 23, 2020 21:08
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External Organs posted:RoW - Anyone have any ideas regarding a Whimsy based magic system? We already have one based on magic chickens for a Shard that is definitely not whimsical so I’m at a loss here. Maybe something in line with incredibly powerful Silly Walking. Ooh, maybe it’s a Pun based system! I seem to remember Brandon saying he wanted to play with a word based magic system sooner or later. Puns would be awful enough to work. RoW - Did Shallan's big reveal count as her next truth, or is the payoff for her arc in this book as much in limbo as Adolin's? I guess book 5 will follow on immediately from RoW so I guess it's all waiting for act 1 of that.
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Nov 23, 2020 21:26
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Another RoW thing I enjoyed: I love that Hoid's spren is the epitome of Sanderson's idiosyncratic humor.
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Nov 23, 2020 21:32
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It's too bad amaram got so derailed by the sadeas OB switch. I like the RoW reveals that he wasn't such a pure shitbird like Amaram kept his promise and ordered for Tien to be kept out of combat It took an hour of arguing for his boss, an Actual Herald, to convince him to take kaladin's blade And that Kaladin's distate for the mental health ardents is an exact copy of what Amaram said back in words of radiance.
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Nov 23, 2020 21:50
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External Organs posted:RoW - Anyone have any ideas regarding a Whimsy based magic system? We already have one based on magic chickens for a Shard that is definitely not whimsical so I’m at a loss here. Maybe something in line with incredibly powerful Silly Walking. Ooh, maybe it’s a Pun based system! well the sixth of dusk system is more about getting a Parrot Friend who will help you survive the hellish jungle they live in, i feel like it's not very whimsical in practice (though it is when Rosharans call every kind of bird a chicken because they're confused by all non-bugcrab species)
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Nov 23, 2020 21:51
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eke out posted:it's, frankly, as good a theory as any Secret History also closes with Kelsier realising that on the cosmere stage, his struggles and schemes barely rated a footnote and that it'd be really easy for his world to get smushed in the Shard Wars. So him putting together chunks of different magic in service of some damnfool crusade is in character. Atm the Ghostbloods are fighting a shadow war with half a dozen other secret societies and we don't really know what their goal is beyond perhaps sort out Kelsiers fractured state and start trading magic. Good guys or bad guys are hard to judge, ruthless sure, but Kelsiers crew were always ruthless because they were fighting such superior opposition
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Nov 23, 2020 21:52
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HidaO-Win posted:Secret History also closes with Kelsier realising that on the cosmere stage, his struggles and schemes barely rated a footnote and that it'd be really easy for his world to get smushed in the Shard Wars. So him putting together chunks of different magic in service of some damnfool crusade is in character. Row I like that the book points out that the Ghostbloods, while competent, are also kind of flailing about. They didn't know that Kelek would be killed by the knife and with the implications about the recreance don't actually fully understand the deal with ba-ado-mishram.
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Nov 23, 2020 23:00
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eke out posted:mistborn that's specifically a backdoor the Lord Ruler put in in designing them to maintain control, so definitely not Is he really a (mistborn and ROW spoilers) Cognative shadow like Szeth and others though? Returned are people who died and basically had an imprint of themselves stapled to a body with Investiture. Kelsier is pretty clearly his own actual soul/persona who cheated death by jumping in to Preservation's perpendicularity and not a shadow taken while the soul passed to the Beyond. Of all things that could keep a soul intact and "real" and facilitate full blown resurrection, Preservation is probably at the very top of that list. Democratic Pirate posted:Who did Kelsier hate? Nobles. Who put the system in place? The Lord Ruler. Who put the Lord Ruler in place? The Shards. Except he got to see the Lord Ruler die and then the Lord Ruler's puppetmaster(s) die (and punch Ati in the ghostface) so he knows the ones responsible for the Lord Ruler are dead. Plus they've been replaced by a new entity whose core is a person Kelsier trusts to the extent Kelsier trusts anyone. I think he's moved beyond "find the next person up the chain and kill them" and is more likely to want power to make sure that a Lord Ruler type person cannot come to power in other worlds. For all the Ghostbloods actions they never seem to make grabs at power that'd let them rule over others, directly at least. Lucas Archer posted:RoW spoilers up through the end of Part 2 *removing because I'm dumb. eke out posted:well the sixth of dusk system is more about getting a Parrot Friend who will help you survive the hellish jungle they live in, i feel like it's not very whimsical in practice (though it is when Rosharans call every kind of bird a chicken because they're confused by all non-bugcrab species) Because the only birds (stormlight spoiliers) on Roshar are the chickens from Shinovar that the humans brought to the planet ages ago. For Rosharans, chicken isn't a type of bird, it is birds because no avian species ever evolved there. There might be other birds in Shinovar but most people won't ever see them just like most will never see dirt and grass unless they go visit the Shin. Evil Fluffy fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Nov 24, 2020 |
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Nov 23, 2020 23:58
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Don't read that spoiler, Lucas Archer, he's spoiling the end of the book
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Nov 24, 2020 00:12
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Evil Fluffy posted:Because the only birds (stormlight spoiliers) on Roshar are the chickens from Shinovar that the humans brought to the planet ages ago. For Rosharans, chicken isn't a type of bird, it is birds because no avian species ever evolved there. There might be other birds in Shinovar but most people won't ever see them just like most will never see dirt and grass unless they go visit the Shin. yes this is what i am joking about Evil Fluffy posted:Is he really a (mistborn and ROW spoilers) Cognative shadow like Szeth and others though? Returned are people who died and basically had an imprint of themselves stapled to a body with Investiture. Kelsier is pretty clearly his own actual soul/persona who cheated death by jumping in to Preservation's perpendicularity and not a shadow taken while the soul passed to the Beyond. Of all things that could keep a soul intact and "real" and facilitate full blown resurrection, Preservation is probably at the very top of that list. it's confirmed by wob and further confirmed by ROW people talking about how Kelsier has the same 'condition' as the heralds and is trying to figure it out
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Nov 24, 2020 00:21
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Daric posted:Don't read that spoiler, Lucas Archer, he's spoiling the end of the book Thanks I overlooked that they meant they were only up to part 2.
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Nov 24, 2020 00:28
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eke out posted:yes this is what i am joking about Yeah I think in practical terms, there isn't really a difference in the cosmere between Kelsier and other cognitive shadows in 'mechanics'. External Organs posted:RoW - Anyone have any ideas regarding a Whimsy based magic system? We already have one based on magic chickens for a Shard that is definitely not whimsical so I’m at a loss here. Maybe something in line with incredibly powerful Silly Walking. Ooh, maybe it’s a Pun based system! I'd bet my butt it's the kite-based magic system he mentioned.
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Nov 24, 2020 01:06
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Finished RoW Favorite parts: - Mental Health bits really hit home. Sanderson's been doing heavy homework and it shows. I was stupid crying at the Tien forgiveness scene. - The bondsmith powers are utterly broken, similarly. Ishar of course demonstrated this, but also Dalinar--imagine if Dalinar did that Spiritual Realm Connection he did for Kal/Tien with the intent of hurting or crushing someone. - Darkseid Navani seeking the Anti-Light equation was a lot of fun. I'm an engineer, so I appreciate the "hard magic" bits. This book was billed as Venli's, but it was entirely the Navani show tbh. - Toadium is going to be a massive danger to everyone. Rayse was spent after eons of fighting. T is fresh and probably a hell of a lot more devious. Cultivation is playing a long game, but I think she's created a monster that will outpunch her - The war part was barely covered, which was smart. Both in the book and meta-wise it was a pointless engagement meant to occupy several major players from the real events, and barely covering it was a good choice. - Hoid just got dunked on, hard. We know from Mistborn Era 2 that he's fine (it occurs later chronologically) but he's severely compromised and doesn't even know it. - I totally called the cube being a Seon and was happy to see it confirmed. So the first Radiant to get a non-rosharan magic companion was Szeth, then Shallan, then Lift with her presumed-Aviar. We still don't know why Mraize wanted it dead - I agree that the recreance being a voluntary thing to prevent anti-Light from proliferating is probably on-target. - The Deadeyes are definitely still cognitively aware. They all came to Lasting Integrity because of the Trial of a human taking responsibility for the Recreance, which they all know was a mutually agreed thing--and therefore impossible for anyone to "take the blame" for. It was going to be a miscarriage of justice. - Kaladin going Die Hard/Home Alone and barely succeeding was an interesting take. I thought he'd swear the 4th way earlier than he did and proceed to wreck face. I do agree it had pacing issues though. It's a penultimate setup book, not a proper installment story. I have a feeling book 4/5 is going to be a WoT book 9/10/11 scenario where re-reading them all in one shot will flow way better than waiting individually. Dalinar is so totally going to lose his challenge.
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Nov 24, 2020 03:55
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Idle RoW comments: I like Moash’s drive to be unnecessarily dramatic. Normal outfit? Nah, get him he a set of Bridge Four coats but in black because he’s a bad dude. Legendary weapon granting godlike powers? Gotta practice throwing it because Adolin looked really cool once. Stand behind a door and ambush Lift/Teft? Nope, he needs to go lie under a blanket and attack from the ground. Now that Moash is blind, I wonder if there’s anything in the cosmere that could help him regain a form of sight...maybe something that ties in with other new cosmere reveals...maybe something that leads to buddy cop movie starring the duo we never knew we needed: Morsh.
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Nov 24, 2020 04:24
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So I've only got like 3 hours left of Well of Ascension and this sure is good (finally, thank gently caress). Three things that have stood out as especially awesome - Straf continuing to deteriorate. Straf is legit one of the characters I enjoy the most in this book. He's a completely irredeemable prick and so you don't have to ever feel bad when something awful happens to him. Seeing him cower in fear of Vin owned so hard. Finding out that his herbalist mistress was the one poisoning him and now Zane was loving great. He's a goddamn mess and it's the fuckin best. Elend meeting Jastes again. My assumption was that Jastes would end up Koloss food. This was even better. As soon as he showed up, I was shouting "KILL HIM!!!" so needless to say I was hootin and hollerin when Elend beheaded him. It was such a good loving moment. Zero hesitation. This is the Elend I've been wanting all book long. Luthadel being the location of the Well of Ascension is loving brilliant and I'm so mad that I never connected that previously. Even when Vin felt the drum beat softer, I didn't connect it. For the first 2/3rds of this book, I was thinking "goddamn, this book is titled 'Well of Ascension' but we aren't even really talking about it much!!" and when Vin/Elend left Luthadel I thought it was wild how the "journey to the Well" was starting at 80% of the way through the book. You fuckin got me, Brandon!!!  Speculation for the final 10% of this book: During the first book, the book makes it fairly clear that The Deepness wasn't properly defeated, despite what the characters think. I speculated that the relationship between the Lord Ruler and The Deepness was Diablo 2-style "man tried to absorb/contain evil and became evil because of it" or Futurama Slurm-style "We're milking this thing for its juices." The thing that comes up again and again in this book is "The Lord Ruler's Atium" and I had a suspicion very early on that it was connected to The Deepness. When the Diablo 2 theory went out, I leaned more toward the Slurm theory. At this point, my assumption is that the Lord Ruler was using the Atium as a way to imprison or reinforce the prison of The Deepness. Perhaps The Deepness is trapped within the Well of Ascension and the Atrum keeps it trapped. Hence why there is no secret stash of Atium and why the influence of The Deepness has increased. I've had this theory about the Atium-Deepness link since very very very early on in this book so it makes me even more mad that I didn't connect that Luthadel is the home of the Well of Ascension. OF COURSE IT WOULD BE. I'm so mad that I didn't figure that out. By my theory - since The Deepness is trapped within the Well, I assume this book ends with Vin thinking she's activating the Well's power but actually she releases The Deepness's full power - to be dealt with in Book 3. Yo - Mistborn feels like a Final Fantasy plot and I could not be happier about that.
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Nov 24, 2020 04:24
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Evil Fluffy posted:Thanks I overlooked that they meant they were only up to part 2. It's an easy trap to fall into. There's been a few comments where I want to say "oh that comes up later" and then stopped myself because even if you're not giving details telling folks what plot bits to remember can give enough away.
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Nov 24, 2020 05:13
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RoW ending thoughts: --I was ugly crying for the Tien flashback. I didn't expect Tien to talk to him and all that, I expected he'd relive the last moments of everyone he "failed" and see that they willingly made their sacrifices culminating in Teft getting to die loved. Instead the conversation was very cathartic. --I am impressed by Toadium. This whole time that guy's been a force of nature that's good for being a threat but hadn't had any moments to make him interesting, and then it turns out we've been getting character development for the antagonist the whole time. And he is scary. All of the worst impulses we've seen throughout the books and with the power to see them through without self-awareness. I'm glad they didn't tease out the fall to temptation, just let him attain Godhood and immediately discard any regrets.
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Nov 24, 2020 05:26
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Has Sanderson announced what the books he will publish will be? Are we getting a mistborn and maybe Warbreaker 2 before book 5? Also at the RoW release party, Sanderson read a chapter out of the Sixth of Dusk sequel which has some significant, yet vague reveals on the future of the cosmere. Here's a transcript. While nothing is explicitly spoiled outside of the first Sixth of Dusk novella, read at your own risk: https://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/93066-rhythm-of-war-online-release-party-111720/?page=5#comment-1117814
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Nov 24, 2020 05:31
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Mordiceius posted:Yo - Mistborn feels like a Final Fantasy plot and I could not be happier about that. You are going to love book 3.
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Nov 24, 2020 05:40
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TheMadMilkman posted:You are going to love book 3. I know people talk poo poo about video game plots or anime plots, and especially anime video game plots, but I love that poo poo. And you can tell that Brandon Sanderson is a gamer just by the way things are in these books. It's the most video game poo poo and I'm loving here for it.
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Nov 24, 2020 06:03
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Democratic Pirate posted:Idle RoW comments: Re: Comment 1, with spoilers for Way of Kings Prime and Chapter 111 of RoW specifically: Sanderson worked in a freaking reference to skepping in there! I was half-expecting it and lo and behold, there it was, a passing reference to how Ishar was fighting in Chapter 111 and how the Windrunners were practicing it, probably with coaching from Zahel though that's never mentioned in the text so I'm drawing that conclusion based on WoK Prime. It is one of those "cool sword tricks" that I fully expect Moash would want to try, despite not having any of the discipline to do it. Re: Comment 2, with spoilers for Mistborn Era 1: Agreed. With the reveal of who Thaidakar is, I'm waiting for Mraize or Iyatil to just turn up and spike him through the eyes like an Inquisitor so he gains Steelsight like Marsh.
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Nov 24, 2020 06:51
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Democratic Pirate posted:Idle RoW comments: Well, with tossing it, it would be a useful ranged attack if, say, your feet were Adhered to the floor. The Honorblade can't change shape (barring getting nicked by certain talking s-words) so he can't make it into a shardspear/halberd for reach. If he could toss it and maybe take out someone, then dismiss/resummon it'd be a useful tool in the box. That said...yeah, it's probably just "it looked SO COOL" only all edgy/angsty and stuff.
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Nov 24, 2020 07:16
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