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Was the only point of Convergence to bring back OG clark kent and lois lane? edit: The Weekly Planet guys had a good point in their discussion of crisis on infinite earths, where they said yeah it's incredibly dense and maybe not entirely good, but at least the writers took responsibility for it. "Nobody takes any responsibility for this stuff anymore. With Doomsday Clock, they literally blamed the last decade of bad comics on a fictional character, with DC saying 'Oh the reason we rebooted all these characters and it's kind of an unpleasant Superman that you don't like (and we don't like either!) is because Dr Manhattan did it'. ??? Nobody went 'ah sorry we thought we would make these characters cool and edgy but it didn't really work'." I still crack up about that. stratdax fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Nov 19, 2020 |
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Nov 19, 2020 01:24
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stratdax posted:Was the only point of Convergence to bring back OG clark kent and lois lane? And something to do with Earth 2 as well!
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Nov 19, 2020 01:31
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I do like bro superman. He felt a bit more relatably human? Like, dad superman feels like someone who will sit down and give you the exact advice to fix your life, bro superman will sit down with you, share a few cans of beer and just commiserate with you.
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Nov 19, 2020 02:10
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tbh the only nu52 I read was Batman and Animal Man. I always liked that side of DC - swamp thing, hellblazer, etc. I read one Superman arc and it was Mr Mxplstyzk and I thought it was booooring. Although, I can't remember which Superman it was. Actually that might have been in Rebirth.
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Nov 19, 2020 02:18
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Barry Convex posted:does anyone else remember Telos, the Forerunner of 2015 I do remember that! But literally, only that.
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Nov 19, 2020 03:32
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stratdax posted:Was the only point of Convergence to bring back OG clark kent and lois lane? No, it was definitely a last minute idea.
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Nov 19, 2020 05:06
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Rhyno posted:No, it was definitely a last minute idea. It was the move from NYC to LA that was driving the whole thing right?
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Nov 24, 2020 04:47
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Nystral posted:It was the move from NYC to LA that was driving the whole thing right? Yeah, they internally called it "that band aid."
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Nov 24, 2020 05:02
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Weren't they supposed to move back when the New52 was published? And that was supposed to cover for the move, but then it didn't happen for whatever reason?
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Nov 24, 2020 21:53
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Boy was the multiverse who laughs a waste of $6 outside of Patton Oswalt’s story
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Nov 25, 2020 00:51
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The Other History of the DC Universe is only technically a comic, but it's such an enjoyable character study that I turned around and bought the first two Black Lightning trades that collect his original series and all of his appearances before Batman and the Outsiders.
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Nov 25, 2020 00:57
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Completely forgot that was coming out! Which is unfortunate, it's not as if there was anything else particularly riveting this week. 
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Nov 25, 2020 02:59
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BrianWilly posted:Completely forgot that was coming out! Which is unfortunate, it's not as if there was anything else particularly riveting this week. Suicide Squad ended this week and the new storyline for RHatO started. RHatO's new writer is Shawn Martinbrough and it's Jason back in Gotham in The Hill neighborhood which seems to be styled as a majority minority borough that's not quite hit the gentrification Burnside did in Batgirl but might be there in a few years. It seems to be going back to street level stuff, themed gangs, and the heaviest hitter that showed up is Killer Croc
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Nov 25, 2020 04:58
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Madkal posted:If we are going to go in on superhero costume stuff that is annoying mine is shoulder pads. Why do heroes need shoulder pads? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St8iEpkcDJc
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Nov 26, 2020 00:40
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Xelkelvos posted:Suicide Squad ended this week and the new storyline for RHatO started. RHatO's new writer is Shawn Martinbrough and it's Jason back in Gotham in The Hill neighborhood which seems to be styled as a majority minority borough that's not quite hit the gentrification Burnside did in Batgirl but might be there in a few years. It seems to be going back to street level stuff, themed gangs, and the heaviest hitter that showed up is Killer Croc Though the Suicide Squad is more being rebranded as the same team is going to be back under a new name.
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Nov 26, 2020 22:28
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Xelkelvos posted:RHatO's new writer [...] Wow I thought the only reason RHatO still existed was because Lobdell was blackmailing some higher-up at DC.
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Nov 26, 2020 23:12
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70s batman is driving me insane. Either be grim or goofy because trying to be both isn't working.
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Nov 30, 2020 15:49
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Mr Hootington posted:70s batman is driving me insane. Either be grim or goofy because trying to be both isn't working. It was a transition period for sure. The O'Neil/Adams stuff is great though.
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Nov 30, 2020 16:07
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Holy poo poo, Superman: Birthright is incredible.
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Dec 1, 2020 06:02
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Jupiter Jazz posted:Holy poo poo, Superman: Birthright is incredible. It is!
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Dec 1, 2020 07:22
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Jupiter Jazz posted:Holy poo poo, Superman: Birthright is incredible. Rhyno posted:It is! It's loving bonkers Mark Waid has never written any of the mainline Superman books.
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Dec 1, 2020 07:37
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Skwirl posted:It's loving bonkers Mark Waid has never written any of the mainline Superman books. Superman is just cursed to be 95 percent boring or bland stories, and 5 percent some of the most incredible comic books ever written. Superman is one of those characters I really like, but on the whole his actual ongoing runs are always disappointing. All Star Superman and the early stuff with Jon? 
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Dec 1, 2020 14:16
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I liked Kurt Busiek's small run and wish he had continued. Tomasi and Gleason would have been one of the greatest runs if they had just been left alone. Johns had an ok to amazing run, but it is full of johnsisms. Superman also suffers from the same power creep problem Batman and the Flash do. Mr Hootington fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Dec 1, 2020 |
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Dec 1, 2020 14:25
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Skwirl posted:It's loving bonkers Mark Waid has never written any of the mainline Superman books. i vaguely recall (emphasis vaguely, so big ol' grain of salt) a rumor that part of his falling out with DiDio was that he'd been offered Superman but had that reneged upon
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Dec 1, 2020 15:17
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FoneBone posted:i vaguely recall (emphasis vaguely, so big ol' grain of salt) a rumor that part of his falling out with DiDio was that he'd been offered Superman but had that reneged upon Waid was part of the "Super Storm" pitch that Didio passed on. Didio also hated 52 and mocked it in interviews, leading up to the famous "Countdown is 52 done right." Waid had enough and stopped even trying to pitch to DC. It's been rumored that Waid is getting one of the books after Bendis.
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Dec 1, 2020 16:23
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Superstorm was such a weird thing, considering the Question series that was part of it went on fine.
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Dec 1, 2020 16:52
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Vulpes Vulpes posted:Superstorm was such a weird thing, considering the Question series that was part of it went on fine. What we got wasn't what was originally pitched though.
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Dec 1, 2020 17:07
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Batman and Catwoman is an unreadable mess. Constantly jumping back and forth between time with no clear line connecting them or clear transitions. loving terrible.
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Dec 1, 2020 20:24
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At least Justice League: Endless Winter #1 was fun. Tentatively excited for the next few weeks.
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Dec 1, 2020 21:57
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Timeline is a little mixed up here: In 2004-2005, the plan was to shake up and revitalize the Superman books by having Brian Azzarello and Jim Lee do the "For Tomorrow" arc in Superman. Hush had been a big hit earlier, and so the idea was that this could be the tentpole of a revitalized Superman line, which had been kind of been a bunch of weird stops and starts of different runs for the past few years. Concurrent to that, "Superstorm" was supposed side series produced through the Wildstorm editorial offices instead of the main Superman office, kind of a original-era "Marvel Knights" style thing. Lex Luthor: Man of Steel by Azzarello/Bermejo was the core book, alongside the Question by Veitch/Edwards and Vigilante by Micah Ian Wright. But Wright got fired because of his whole Stolen Valor/making up half of his non-military resume stuff, sales on the other books were not incredible (Hush started as 120,000 and grew to 235,000 orders by the final chapter, For Tomorrow launched at 231,000 and fell to 112,000 by the final issue) so the whole thing kind of petered out and the Superman books stayed in the Superman office. I don't think the Question book was changed significantly from what it was intended to be, but according to interviews it was also supposed to be building to things that never actually happened. A year or so earlier, Superman: Birthright by Mark Waid and Leniel Yu had launched (out of the Superman offices) in the summer of 2003, and seemed timed to wrap up around the same time the then-current Superbook teams (Joe Kelly/Pascual Ferry on Action, Joe Casey/Derec Aucoin on Adventures, Steve Seagle/Scott McDaniel on Superman) were wrapping things up. There were rumors that Waid would be heading up a reworking of the Superman 2000 pitch that he, Morrison, Millar, and Peyer pitched unsuccessfully a few years prior. Instead, the current creative teams all left before Birthright was even halfway through, you had a few months of weird filler crossover like an Abnett/Lanning thing where Superman and Mister Majestic switched places and a Joe Kelly/Michael Turner cyberpunk New Krypon storyline before Greg Rucka and Chuck Austen took over the two books that weren't Superman, and Mark Waid was not among them. I don't think "Waid takes over the Superman books" was anything besides fan speculation, but it's also a little odd that Waid got the gig to do the first big Superman Origin Story in twenty years even while they were in the early stages of planning Infinite Crisis and a big continuity shift and apparently had no clear vision for what they were doing with Superman in the next year or three. Waid did get to do his Legion of Super Heroes revamp that was kind of spun out of Birthright, at least. The second (or third if you count both the above) "Lucy pulls the football out from Charlie Brown" situation was a few years later and who the hell knows exactly what happened but what appears to be objective is: 1) In 2008, the big Superman Event was meant to be NEW KRYPTON, spearheaded by Geoff Johns, with Greg Rucka and James Robinson (and Johns protege Sterling Gates) writing the line/event alongside Johns. 2) Johns lasted about six months before he quietly stopped writing any of the Superman books. 3) Andrew Kreisberg was announced as the third core writer of the Superman books, but was taken off of the books before any of them got published and Rucka/Robinson were credited for several issues solicited as written by Kreisberg. No one has ever gone on record to my knowledge about what happened here. Kreisberg went on to work on the DC TV series for years until getting summarily fired during the first round of #metoo. 4. Meanwhile, James Robinson and Dan Didio got into an argument/fight about unspecified things, and it was announced he was quitting the Superman books/DC in general. There was a lot of gossip about this and the general takeaway was that it was personal not editorial. 5. After Robinson's departure, Dan Didio reached out to Mark Waid to see if he'd be interested in coming in to take over for Robinson. 6. Within a week or so, Didio and Robinson patched things up and Robinson never officially left Superman so Waid's offer to write it evaporated. And then within a year they'd already started planning for the New 52. So in summary, DC editorial was a bit of a mess in the 2000s.
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Dec 1, 2020 22:14
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Was the Robinson thing pre or post Cry of Justice because I remember him getting flack for how bad it was and not taking that too well.
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Dec 1, 2020 22:28
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Madkal posted:Was the Robinson thing pre or post Cry of Justice because I remember him getting flack for how bad it was and not taking that too well. He did write a Justice League run post Cry of Justice. It ended after a couple of issues, but the final issue was basically a series of splash pages with his justice league talking about all the awesome and epic adventures that they went on that were just so cool guys. And you would have been able to read them, if you had only just bought the series. The funny thing is I don't think that is the only time Robinson pulled a "Here are a bunch of awesome stories. If only you had bought them."
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Dec 1, 2020 22:42
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Edge & Christian posted:
Explains like 85% of DC history
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Dec 1, 2020 22:53
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James Robinson's run on the Superman books started in June 2008 and ran through May 2010. The incident where he quit and un-quit was in November 2008. Cry for Justice ran from July 2009 to March 2010. His Justice League run started a few months later, in October 2009. Anything that happened with the Robinson/Didio dust-up would have been well before anyone hated on Cry for Justice. The final issue that had a bunch of "what might have been" splash pages was less because no one bought the book and more that his run to date on the book had been: #38: Introductory issue #39-40: Blackest Night tie-in #41-42: New team members! #43: Green Arrow: Rise and Fall tie-in #44-48: Brightest Day tie-in #50-53: Presumably a story arc derived from James Robinson ideas involving the Crime Syndicate and the Omega Man #54-59: Rise of Eclipso, a tie-in to Reign of the Doomsdays, Dan Didio's Outsiders run, an "upcoming Superman/Batman Annual", etc. In interviews promoting the Rise of Eclipso, Robinson said: quote:This is all part of a much bigger story. This is my first foray into the Crime Syndicate, but it isn't the last. Readers of my Starman series have seen me build a big, overriding storyline, and that's what I'm doing here with Justice League of America. All of what I'm doing with the Crime Syndicate, and the Omega Man, is a first salvo with these characters. They'll be coming back later for a much bigger role even than this one, in another storyline that I have cooking. So with that arc over, JLA #60 was Robinson's final issue because Flashpoint was happening and the New 52 was overriding everything that came before it with new creative teams and a new continuity. So that final issue was less "why didn't anyone buy this book" and more "well I guess this is being cut short for a universal reboot so might as well toss these plans out into the ether!"
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Dec 1, 2020 23:16
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Edge & Christian posted:So with that arc over, JLA #60 was Robinson's final issue because Flashpoint was happening and the New 52 was overriding everything that came before it with new creative teams and a new continuity. So that final issue was less "why didn't anyone buy this book" and more "well I guess this is being cut short for a universal reboot so might as well toss these plans out into the ether!" Since you have some idea of what was going on, is that what happened with the Stephanie Brown Batgirl run? It also ends with a montage of scenes that could have been really cool stories.
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Dec 1, 2020 23:28
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The Stephanie Brown Batgirl series also ended in August 2011 to make way for the New 52, yeah. Pretty much any series that wasn't Geoff Johns's Green Lantern or Morrison's Batman Inc. got a few months' notice that they were ending (and continuity was being reset) so I think a lot of creative teams just tossed out all of the plot points they were planning on getting around to in those last few issues. You can tell this from the titles of the issues alone: Adventure Comics #529: "The End" Batgirl #24: "Unsinkable" Batman #713: "Storybook Endings" Green Arrow #15: "Endgame" Green Lantern Corps #63: "Now and Forever" Justice League of America #60: "Adjourned" Justice Society of America #54: "Crisis" Legion of Super-Heroes #16: "Endings" Red Robin #26: "What Goes Around" Secret Six #36: "Blood Honor" (a stretch maybe but the cover is the team taking apart the logo) Superman #714: "Grounded No More" Teen Titans #100: "Family Reunion" Titans #38: "To the Death" Wonder Woman #614: "The Return" Though to be fair, a big chunk of the books DC was publishing by that point were in filler arcs because the 'important' creators had already jumped to working on New 52 stuff. I know I keep saying "DC editorial is kind of a mess" but I think a lot of people (I know I do!) forget just how much of a mess it was in the time directly before The New 52, which was a mess in its own right but at least initially looked like a huge improvement over what preceded it.
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Dec 2, 2020 00:07
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Edge & Christian posted:The Stephanie Brown Batgirl series also ended in August 2011 to make way for the New 52, yeah. Pretty much any series that wasn't Geoff Johns's Green Lantern or Morrison's Batman Inc. got a few months' notice that they were ending (and continuity was being reset) so I think a lot of creative teams just tossed out all of the plot points they were planning on getting around to in those last few issues. Ah, I was just unsure if the montage was actual plans they had or just fun art they did. I think what happened to Steph and Cass was the biggest thing that pissed me off about the New 52. I know my friend's heard me bitch about Dan Didio multiple times about that. Besides Batgirl and Justice League, did any of the other ones do a montage of stories they wouldn't get to do? It's a particularly melancholy look at what could have been, but I'm curious how plans were changed by the reboot.
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Dec 2, 2020 00:18
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Holy poo poo, Superman Rebirth looks loving incredible. https://www.polygon.com/2017/1/10/14119712/dc-comics-rebirth-superman
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Dec 2, 2020 01:24
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catlord posted:Besides Batgirl and Justice League, did any of the other ones do a montage of stories they wouldn't get to do? It's a particularly melancholy look at what could have been, but I'm curious how plans were changed by the reboot. If I remember right, Red Robin also had a montage of aborted story arcs, just instead of a dream sequence it was "and then this thing happened, and then this thing happened" in quick succession.
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Dec 2, 2020 02:12
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 I appreciate this a lot. Not the kawaii-ish Steph thing, but the multiple batgirls thing.
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Dec 2, 2020 02:40
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