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pop punk posted:There is a certain kind of person who needs to hear and will respond to "you can improve your life by exerting self control and things can be improved or mitigated" and it is a huge bummer that this is the only kind of person putting that out in a place where young people are listening. Honestly I think it's not so much that the kids lack the life improvement message, it's that there's a lot of young people who are already inclined toward his chuddier worldview who are aided by the life improvement. A lot of the time, chuddy inclinations are the result of- or at least comorbid with- issues that also lead to a disorganized life: anxiety, depression, being raised by assholes, etc. (Those traits obviously don't universally lead to chudditude, but they're very heavily correlated.) So it's less "self improvement book leads to chud" and more "chud self-improvement book validates preexisting chud ideas." And validation is really soothing, so it's easy to see why someone who's having a bad time would prefer a self-help book that helps and validates them over a self-help book that just helps them in a general way.
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Dec 1, 2020 18:21
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Almost anything you find in the self-help genre is going to be a scam. It's like free capitalist propaganda most of the time. It just preys on people who are desperate. Anyone who says JP and his 12 rules "turned their life around" is either lying, or they just don't realize any other factors that helped them. I doubt they're dumb enough that they didn't know basics like cleaning and showering are helpful.
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Dec 1, 2020 18:47
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Pretty much an entire generation of men weren't so much raised as they were kept alive and vaguely presentable by disinterested parents who used consumer goods to keep them quiet and stare blankly when their children express actual problems. Leave It To Beaver destroyed the american psyche.
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Dec 1, 2020 19:20
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Puppy Time posted:Honestly I think it's not so much that the kids lack the life improvement message, it's that there's a lot of young people who are already inclined toward his chuddier worldview who are aided by the life improvement. It's why "clean your room" before you can clean the world is bad advice, because it assumes that you are the sole party responsible for your metaphorical room, and that there is no relation between them. About as useful as telling someone to unironically pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.
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Dec 1, 2020 19:30
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mojo1701a posted:It's why "clean your room" before you can clean the world is bad advice, because it assumes that you are the sole party responsible for your metaphorical room, and that there is no relation between them. Don't try and overthink it. It's literally the first piece of advice given to anyone struggling with depression: "first thing you do in the morning is make you bed. Start with accomplishing one thing and then move on from there". He's just expanded on it and stretched it out to an entire chapter (Because he doesn't follow his own rules and endlessly bloviates on and on and on and on)
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Dec 1, 2020 19:41
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Jordan Peterson and 💩 in the same room?? How is it possible that they were different people this whole time???
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Dec 1, 2020 19:47
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Pretty much an entire generation of men weren't so much raised as they were kept alive and vaguely presentable by disinterested parents who used consumer goods to keep them quiet and stare blankly when their children express actual problems. Huh, this is pretty on the nose of my experience.
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Dec 1, 2020 20:06
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Broke: Make your bed first thing in the morning because it will set the tone for making further accomplishments throughout the day Woke:  
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Dec 1, 2020 20:17
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did anyone say jordan peepeeson yet
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Dec 1, 2020 20:25
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mojo1701a posted:It's why "clean your room" before you can clean the world is bad advice, because it assumes that you are the sole party responsible for your metaphorical room, and that there is no relation between them. Yep. It's super effective capitalist propaganda in that sense. One second you're going "Cleaning my room seems unimportant but sure I'll start there" then you finish the arbitrary list of chores and go "Wow if this is all it takes then everyone must just be lazy!"
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Dec 1, 2020 20:33
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the guy who thinks jorp has never been owned must never have read that insane blog post he made at like 4 AM about how he cured his daughter's cancer or whatever by only feeding her an exact amount of steak and filtered water for every meal, a regimen which he himself now follows religiously, however his nights are now made restless by nightmares of being accosted by people who don't agree with his opinions who he is then forced to literally choke to death to silence
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Dec 1, 2020 20:52
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what about that part where he says his brother in law was a 100% definitely for sure a would-be murderer really honestly truly for certain... who apparently literally smelled of unemployment(?) but jorpy got a premonition and barged into the dudes bedroom and talked to him so logic and brilliant that his brother in law didnt murder suicide the entire household And then everyone stood up and clapped, I suppose simplefish fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Dec 1, 2020 |
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Dec 1, 2020 21:51
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That's sounds hilariously fake and I want to read it
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Dec 1, 2020 21:57
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I'm not so sure I care for this Peterson guy.
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Dec 1, 2020 22:05
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Grimdude posted:Yep. It's super effective capitalist propaganda in that sense. One second you're going "Cleaning my room seems unimportant but sure I'll start there" then you finish the arbitrary list of chores and go "Wow if this is all it takes then everyone must just be lazy!" It's fair advice on its own; the idea is to make someone deep in depression feel just a small positive feedback loop because their bed looked like a stinking, sweat stained den and now it looks like a made bed. I still genuinely feel slightly off if I leave my duvet in a pile, a bit like not having showered or something. Only our good buddy jorp would entirely miss the point and make a morning ritual about feeling a little less useless into a point of smug superiority though. Alternatively: living in filth to own the chuds
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Dec 1, 2020 22:26
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simplefish posted:what about that part where he says his brother in law was a 100% definitely for sure a would-be murderer really honestly truly for certain... who apparently literally smelled of unemployment(?) but jorpy got a premonition and barged into the dudes bedroom and talked to him so logic and brilliant that his brother in law didnt murder suicide the entire household don’t remember this but I do remember one where an old friend rings him out of the blue with some unexpected happy news (think he got a story/poem published). Friend then kills himself soon after. Jorp is like “yeah, well, he was evil and had rejected life, nothing I could do” Also, turns out preaching “it’s your fault if things go wrong” may be a bad idea https://www.reddit.com/r/enoughpetersonspam/comments/fix4k1/a_friend_of_my_attempted_suicide_quoting_jordan/
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Dec 1, 2020 22:27
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pop punk posted:There is a certain kind of person who needs to hear and will respond to "you can improve your life by exerting self control and things can be improved or mitigated" and it is a huge bummer that this is the only kind of person putting that out in a place where young people are listening.
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Dec 1, 2020 22:29
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Slotducks posted:Don't try and overthink it. It's literally the first piece of advice given to anyone struggling with depression: "first thing you do in the morning is make you bed. Start with accomplishing one thing and then move on from there". He's just expanded on it and stretched it out to an entire chapter (Because he doesn't follow his own rules and endlessly bloviates on and on and on and on) It's both, really: one of Jorp's weird habits (and why he's ultimately so lovely on a lot of levels) is that he starts with really good, solid stuff at his base (clean your room because that can help improve your mood) and then goes whirling off into la-la land with absolutely bizarre takes (unless your life is 100% perfect and in order, you can't try to change society at all). I think he drank a little too much of the Jung kool-aid, where everything is a symbol for something else and the entire world is made up of archetypes (that just so happen to line up exactly with Western storytelling and no other cultural traditions  ) and now can't see the trees as separate from the forest, as it were.It's part of why the Cass Eris videos are so interesting, because the more you look at his ideas, the more hilariously weird they get, and it takes kind of a deep analysis to get a good look at stuff that goes beyond "Lobsters have a hierarchy, therefore social justice bad."
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Dec 1, 2020 22:30
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that reminds me, in 12 rules peterson posted a fantasy about kicking a child's rear endquote:I remember taking my daughter to the playground once when she was about two. She was playing on the monkey bars, hanging in mid-air. A particularly provocative little monster of about the same age was standing above her on the same bar she was gripping. I watched him move towards her. Our eyes locked. He slowly and deliberately stepped on her hands, with increasing force, over and over, as he stared me down. He knew exactly what he was doing. Up yours, Daddy-O — that was his philosophy. He had already concluded that adults were contemptible, and that he could safely defy them. (Too bad, then, that he was destined to become one.) That was the hopeless future his parents had saddled him with. To his great and salutary shock, I picked him bodily off the playground structure, and threw him thirty feet down the field. peterson failed to protect his toddler from a bully while instead locked in mental deliberation about what to do, ultimately resorting to imagining himself disciplining the child
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Dec 1, 2020 22:32
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Jordan Peterson throwing a child 30 feet across a field like Goku unleashing a Kamehameha.
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Dec 1, 2020 22:36
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Sounds like a well adjusted guy, I can't wait to start living my life his way!
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Dec 1, 2020 22:41
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The_Continental posted:I'm not so sure I care for this Peterson guy. Frankly he sounds like a real JERK!
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Dec 1, 2020 23:12
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Who What Now posted:That's sounds hilariously fake and I want to read it Chris, and his cousin Ed, are described as angry kids from a somewhat unstable family and seem to be drunk or stoned most of the time. Chris initially gets described as being part of a deadbeat crew eventually having a psychotic break in his thirties and killing himself. Peterson attempts to muse on this quote:Maybe the pot made things better for Chris, not worse. Maybe it eased his suffering, instead of exacerbating his instability. Was it the nihilistic philosophy he nurtured that paved the way to his eventual breakdown? Was that nihilism, in turn, a consequence of genuine ill health, or just an intellectual rationalization of his unwillingness to dive responsibly into life? Why did he—like his cousin, like my other friends—continually choose people who, and places that, were not good for him? Waaay later in the book Peterson revisits Chris in the chapter "Don't bother kids while they are skateboarding". Peterson starts "More about Chris" with the awkward admission that he saw himself superior than "the native kids" and recounts some bizarre tale of one-upping a kid in his school. Which serves as a bizarre setup to explain Chris' actions. quote:When my friend Chris got into it with Native kids, he wouldn’t fight back. He didn’t feel that his self-defence was morally justified, so he took his beatings. “We took their land,” he later wrote. “That was wrong. No wonder they’re angry.” Over time, step by step, Chris withdrew from the world. It was partly his guilt. He developed a deep hatred for masculinity and masculine activity. He saw going to school or working or finding a girlfriend as part of the same process that had led to the colonization of North America, the horrible nuclear stalemate of the cold war, and the despoiling of the planet. He had read some books about Buddhism, and felt that negation of his own Being was ethically required, in the light of the current world situation. He came to believe that the same applied to others. Basically Chris becomes the poster child for any pot-smoking arty type who happens to care about others. Later on in Peterson's life (I'm presuming the 90s) a lost in life Chris rocks up to visit and subsequently stays over. quote:One evening, it was Chris’s turn to make dinner. When my wife came home, the apartment was filled with smoke. Hamburgers were burning furiously in the frying pan. Chris was on his hands and knees, attempting to repair something that had come loose on the legs of the stove. My wife knew his tricks. She knew he was burning dinner on purpose. He resented having to make it. He resented the feminine role (even though the household duties were split in a reasonable manner; even though he knew that perfectly well). He was fixing the stove to provide a plausible, even creditable excuse for burning the food. When she pointed out what he was doing, he played the victim, but he was deeply and dangerously furious. quote:My brother also knew Chris. They all put on their winter clothes in preparation for a walk around downtown Montreal. Chris put on a long dark winter coat. He pulled a black toque, a brimless knitted cap, far down over his head. His coat was black, as were his pants and boots. He was very tall, and thin, and somewhat stooped. “Chris,” I joked. “You look like a serial killer.” Ha bloody ha. Unsurprisingly this didn't please his friend. quote:Something wasn’t right. It was in the air. At four in the morning, I had had enough. I crawled out of bed. I knocked quietly on Chris’s door and went without waiting for an answer into his room. He was awake on the bed, staring at the ceiling, as I knew he would be. I sat down beside him. I knew him very well. I talked him down from his murderous rage....I told my brother that Chris wasn’t doing so well. I didn’t tell him that he was lucky to be alive—that we all were. The spirit of Cain had visited our house, but we were left unscathed. Yeah. Some clinical psychologist you are. Instead of perhaps trying to to use your skills to help him, you dismiss your friend as being a literal agent of biblical evil, conspire behind his back to turn others against him and ultimately turn him into a moralistic story about keeping potentially bad people out of your life in an act of self preservation. Also note how Peterson constantly is bringing up his family and accomplishments. He can't help rub it in that he's better off than his poor mate. quote:Chris had a very bitter odour. He showered frequently, but the towels and the sheets picked up the smell. It was impossible to get them clean. It was the product of a psyche and a body that did not operate harmoniously. A social worker I knew, who also knew Chris, told me of her familiarity with that odour. Everyone at her workplace knew of it, although they only discussed it in hushed tones. They called it the smell of the unemployable. quote:Almost ten years later —the night before Chris’s fortieth birthday, as it happened—he called me again. By this time, I had moved my family to Toronto. He had some news. A story he had written was going to be published in a collection put together by a small but legitimate press. He wanted to tell me that. He wrote good short stories. I had read them all. We had discussed them at length. He was a good photographer, too. He had a good, creative eye. The next day, Chris drove his old pickup—the same battered beast from Fairview—into the bush. He ran a hose from the exhaust pipe into the front cab. I can see him there, looking through the cracked windshield, smoking, waiting. They found his body a few weeks later. I called his dad. “My beautiful boy,” he sobbed. I had to bold this as Peterson previously described him as dying in his thirties from a psychotic break potentially caused by weed. This is all wrapped up in his nonsense idea that the world is governed off some sort of survival of the fittest hierarchy and you have to be top lobster to rise above all the chaotic forces setting you back. Such as your own self inflicted benzo addiction started because your wife threatened to leave you if you didn't stop ranting about the commies.
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Dec 1, 2020 23:15
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Like on the one hand Jorp would know Chris better than I would, so maybe he does have keen insight into this friend's mindset, but on the other he writes about EVERYONE like that, including people he doesn't know at all, so I'm inclined to think he's just one of those "This is how I would feel therefore it is how you feel" people. It's very weird.
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Dec 1, 2020 23:27
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Pretending to fix the stove because I burned the burgers due to my resentment of the feminine role
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Dec 1, 2020 23:31
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"Good evening young suitor, would you like to divulge your intents for my fair daughter and I hope it's marriage."
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Dec 1, 2020 23:35
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Heath posted:My assumption is that he equates gay parents and single parents because only one gender is represented. A child raised by lesbians and one raised by a single mother are both missing the male component, therefore they are statistically the same. In other words, it's not the absence of a partner, it's the absence of the father that affects kids Yes and he will never say any of this. While you, the listener, have to make that connection in order for what he says to make any sort of sense, as soon as you repeat it out loud, you will be told that he never said that and he was taken out of context. Which is technically true. If you listen to the guy you have to make the necessary assumptions to understand what he's implying, but as soon as you drag these vague connections into the realm of the specific he skitters away from it if you try to challenge it. And if you agree with what he's implying, then you it becomes the easiest thing to defend.
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Dec 2, 2020 00:20
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COMPAGNIE TOMMY posted:Whatever political allegiance can be attributed to this guy, it's intellectually and morally bankrupt if he's the best it can muster as a figurehead alot of people are dumb as gently caress or at least don't have critical thinking. if some dude says he is a doctor and talks in a professor manner. people will think he is smart and poo poo. the right gets the places it does using that. etc. COMPAGNIE TOMMY posted:Broke: Make your bed first thing in the morning because it will set the tone for making further accomplishments throughout the day is that like a real thing he believes? is it some off shoot of Gnosticism or what?
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Dec 2, 2020 00:32
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pop punk posted:There is a certain kind of person who needs to hear and will respond to "you can improve your life by exerting self control and things can be improved or mitigated" and it is a huge bummer that this is the only kind of person putting that out in a place where young people are listening. Personally I think it's cool that rugged individualism and the insistence that if anything bad happens to you it's your fault is no longer the default for males. luxury handset posted:that reminds me, in 12 rules peterson posted a fantasy about kicking a child's rear end Another fun one is Jorp being the kind of wiener that if offended by how disrespectful Bart Simpson is but then goes in some weird directions with it. 
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Dec 2, 2020 00:33
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Dapper_Swindler posted:is that like a real thing he believes? is it some off shoot of Gnosticism or what? its JPs homebrew dungeons and dragons campaign setting
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Dec 2, 2020 00:35
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Puppy Time posted:It's both, really: one of Jorp's weird habits (and why he's ultimately so lovely on a lot of levels) is that he starts with really good, solid stuff at his base (clean your room because that can help improve your mood) and then goes whirling off into la-la land with absolutely bizarre takes (unless your life is 100% perfect and in order, you can't try to change society at all). Don't associate Jung with this joker, the stuff I've read of him paints a man who was really humble about what he didn't know and was looking for new ways to help his patients
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Dec 2, 2020 00:40
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Dapper_Swindler posted:
It looks like the worst parts of Catholicism with some pop Gnosticism. Actual living Gnostics are pretty chill, Jordan Beavis Peterson seems to view religion, like everything in life, as basically dungeons and dragons
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Dec 2, 2020 00:41
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...of SCIENCE! posted:Personally I think it's cool that rugged individualism and the insistence that if anything bad happens to you it's your fault is no longer the default for males. There's no way this is real.
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Dec 2, 2020 00:41
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Rutibex posted:its JPs homebrew dungeons and dragons campaign setting Lmao I didn't see this until after I posted. Great minds etc
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Dec 2, 2020 00:41
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Lil Swamp Booger Baby posted:There's no way this is real. Yeah how can you not bother to look up the name of Üter the German school kid on the Simpsons
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Dec 2, 2020 00:53
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You know, call me crazy, but I get this nagging sensation that maybe Jordan is fibbing just a little when it comes to this Chris fella
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Dec 2, 2020 01:27
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BogDew posted:Oh it's pretty amazing. Chris gets introduced in "Make Friends with the People who Want the Best for you" which is a semi-autobiographical romp through his young adult life. Mainly revealing he really didn't like the nightlife of Fairview Alberta and saw everyone to be drunken, stoned losers in a backwater town that had a reputation for killing all the loser cats with it's icy weather. Aww yeah thats the batshit dissassociated-from-reality purestrain good stuff
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Dec 2, 2020 02:13
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Shageletic posted:Don't associate Jung with this joker, the stuff I've read of him paints a man who was really humble about what he didn't know and was looking for new ways to help his patients Dude associated himself with Jung he barfs that poo poo all over 12 Rules like if the Exorcist had too much to drink ETA "that poo poo" is not intended to be a judgment on Jung. Definitely a judgment on Jorp's use of Jung, tho Puppy Time fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Dec 2, 2020 |
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Dec 2, 2020 02:15
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Dreylad posted:Yeah how can you not bother to look up the name of Üter the German school kid on the Simpsons Also, no way is Nelson king of the bullies. That's probably Kearney or Jimbo
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Dec 2, 2020 02:19
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Lil Swamp Booger Baby posted:There's no way this is real. It's a direct quote from 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos. If you don't believe me The Internet Archive has the full searchable text of the book, just ctrl-f "his thoughtless slut of a mother" https://archive.org/stream/jordanb.peterson12rulesforlife/Jordan%20B.%20Peterson%20-%2012%20Rules%20For%20Life%20%28PDF%29_djvu.txt
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Dec 2, 2020 02:34
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