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Watermelon Daiquiri posted:It's kind of reductive to say right now that even hundreds of years from now solar system colonization won't be possible (considering all of the poo poo that people said was impossible) but whether or not there will be a critical mass of humans left is another story Pretty much. It's a question of when, not if, but depends on us solving our climate crisis.
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Dec 11, 2020 03:09
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The formation of long-term settlements on other worlds is not happening in our lifetimes, but it's kind of absurd to imagine that humanity will never eventually surmount the challenges involved on very long time scales. Who knows what humanity will know or be capable of in 100, 200 years if human civilization survives climate change. The pragmatic opinion is that it's not happening soon and we shouldn't be banking human survival on it, and should be ensuring that this planet stays habitable. I think people arguing about the feasibility of space colonization are often implicitly arguing about whether it can save us from ecological destruction (answer is no), and that's why this discussion can get heated.
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Dec 11, 2020 03:09
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adoration for none posted:if human civilization survives climate change. I think your post underestimates the magnitude of this "if." And I think you have to lump "continues to technologically progress" under that heading of survival.
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Dec 11, 2020 03:16
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I think we have a thread for stuff like offworld colonization and "are there aliens" and so on. It is a good thread and gets way past Elon Musk on the issue into people who know the science of why or why not.
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Dec 11, 2020 03:22
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Fame Douglas posted:Unless you consider "space colonization" to mean "3 scientist on some station a long way from earth" then no, space colonization is absolutely not within our grasp technologically. Especially not useful space colonization. Space nerds have tons of dumb ideas that are impractical is the point. Space exploration is a huge waste of resources. Yeah, having actual families doesn't really make sense within our lifetimes. Government-backed/corporate research is possible, but the pie-in-the-sky dream of moon mining doesn't really make any sense. Unless you find a solid ball of rare-earth metal near the surface, unrefined ore wouldn't be valuable enough to ship back in quantity when industry numbers are measured in hundreds to thousands of tons a year.
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Dec 11, 2020 03:23
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Aha, anything that can colonize space will look more like a tech nightmare than a human. Sci-fi is fun but space is loving hostile to beings that evolved for gravity and a magnetosphere.
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Dec 11, 2020 03:28
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Mister Facetious posted:Yeah, having actual families doesn't really make sense within our lifetimes. Government-backed/corporate research is possible, but the pie-in-the-sky dream of moon mining doesn't really make any sense. Unless you find a solid ball of rare-earth metal near the surface, unrefined ore wouldn't be valuable enough to ship back in quantity when industry numbers are measured in hundreds to thousands of tons a year. The dream of resource extraction in space isn't for the purpose of bringing resources back to Earth, with some exceptions. The idea is that building an extractive and manufacturing infrastructure in space makes everything else (further exploration, colonization) incredibly, fantastically easier.
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Dec 11, 2020 03:29
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How are u posted:...everything required of space colonization is well within our current technological grasp. There's no breakthroughs to be made, it's simply a matter of political and social will to do it. Lol its only established in your delusional scifi hugboxes.
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Dec 11, 2020 03:36
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How are u posted:The dream of resource extraction in space isn't for the purpose of bringing resources back to Earth, with some exceptions. The idea is that building an extractive and manufacturing infrastructure in space makes everything else (further exploration, colonization) incredibly, fantastically easier. Yeah, well that's been indefinitely delayed, what with it being cheaper and easier to use specialized semi/autonomous drones to photograph, measure, and collect samples. We went from Star Trek to the beginning of Empire Strikes Back, where a zillion droids are shot out over every corner of space on the cheap. Like, don't get me wrong, scientific research on the moon is totally doable; relatively speaking, that's our back yard. But sending fallible meat sacks anywhere else is pointless. Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Dec 11, 2020 |
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Dec 11, 2020 03:41
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Mister Facetious posted:Yeah, well that's been indefinitely delayed, what with it being cheaper and easier to use specialized semi/autonomous drones to photograph, measure, and collect samples. Pointless because you are a secular person. Religion has motivated people to do things that are insane. We have been normalized to the idea that space travel is a must. So even if people die doing it we will absolutely find reasons that justify the suffering.
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Dec 11, 2020 03:58
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 Seriously though, I can't wait to see the new Dune movie.
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Dec 11, 2020 04:01
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Look at Everest. Hundreds of individuals a year pay tens of thousands of dollars a piece to climb a large mountain that many people have already climbed before and risk their lives in the process, to attain an altitude that is more or less trivial in an aircraft and even possible in a glider, proving nothing because huge numbers of people have already done it and it's by no means the most challenging ascent in the world or even in the general area. Just lol if you think we won't send people to Mars or the Moon or anywhere else we can just for the gently caress of it. There's probably no particularly compelling reason to do so, unless we become convinced that we've actually made Earth less livable than other planets (which, even if climate change is real bad, I see no reason it would somehow be less livable than any other planet we can feasibly reach), but we'll do it anyway. If "it's not a particularly good idea" were widely accepted as a reason not to do something, this thread would be empty.
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Dec 11, 2020 04:08
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Pointless because you are a secular person. Religion has motivated people to do things that are insane. We have been normalized to the idea that space travel is a must. So even if people die doing it we will absolutely find reasons that justify the suffering. Eh, I think for your average person space exploration is a neat thing but not something you'd be willing to make material sacrifices for. The historically pathetic NASA budget and the push to privatize the space industry I think is an indication that most people outside of nerds don't have skin in the game.
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Dec 11, 2020 04:10
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PT6A posted:Look at Everest. Hundreds of individuals a year pay tens of thousands of dollars a piece to climb a large mountain that many people have already climbed before and risk their lives in the process, to attain an altitude that is more or less trivial in an aircraft and even possible in a glider, proving nothing because huge numbers of people have already done it and it's by no means the most challenging ascent in the world or even in the general area. Nobody is questioning a small amount of people sent somewhere and back (or to die), it's the staggering amount of global resources required to bootstrap an offworld colony that would be the stopping point. Companies and governments will not spend trillions over decades to send the resources a colony would need to reach anywhere near an ROI.
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Dec 11, 2020 04:15
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Pointless because you are a secular person. Religion has motivated people to do things that are insane. We have been normalized to the idea that space travel is a must. So even if people die doing it we will absolutely find reasons that justify the suffering. "We're doing it because we want to and it's interesting" is justification enough. Human beings explore, it's in our blood, it's a fact of nature.
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Dec 11, 2020 04:16
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Send a camera. It'll do the job better, doesn't need a habitation module, and if it blows up on the launch platform, who cares.PT6A posted:Just lol if you think we won't send people to Mars or the Moon or anywhere else we can just for the gently caress of it. Oh I have no doubt you'd have volunteers around the block to be "the first to do X" off Earth. But beyond the nationalist or corporate dick-waving to put one's footprint into the dust of another planet, take some selfies, and piss off back home, I really don't see any sort of complex capable of holding more than the ISS can (6-12) in the next thirty years anywhere but the moon. Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Dec 11, 2020 |
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Dec 11, 2020 04:27
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Lol first trains and then busses and moms. Now we’re recreating manifest destiny. SV, is there anything you can’t do?
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Dec 11, 2020 04:43
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Climate to humanity: Omae wa mou shindeiru!
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Dec 11, 2020 04:51
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Trevor Hale posted:Lol first trains and then busses and moms. Now we’re recreating manifest destiny. SV, is there anything you can’t do? I can't decide if my favorite is the Juicero, or the prefab plastic "root cellar".
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Dec 11, 2020 04:55
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lol, I just learned that Mars Society capo Robert Zubrin has social media accounts and his Facebook page was exhorting people to buy his book, donate to the Mars Society on Giving Tuesday, and select them through Amazon Smile. Have any space missions been funded through Kickstarter yet?
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Dec 11, 2020 05:02
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While Juicero didn't have the potential to cause major damage to water tables, it did have the fun little bonus of supposedly having a perfectly fine, boring working cold press that they immediately ruined to make it look sleek and use the subscription packets.
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Dec 11, 2020 05:03
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eXXon posted:lol, I just learned that Mars Society capo Robert Zubrin has social media accounts and his Facebook page was exhorting people to buy his book, donate to the Mars Society on Giving Tuesday, and select them through Amazon Smile. None of those actions seem out of line for someone running a non-profit? Also what's with using that term?
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Dec 11, 2020 05:13
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Fame Douglas posted:Unless you consider "space colonization" to mean "3 scientist on some station a long way from earth" then no, space colonization is absolutely not within our grasp technologically. Especially not useful space colonization. Space nerds have tons of dumb ideas that are impractical is the point. Space exploration is a huge waste of resources. We're going to have the helium equivalent of oil rigs on the moon before most of us are dead.
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Dec 11, 2020 05:26
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I agree as a matter of public policy and general humanity, but why it’s sort of a strange thing to go to bat for if they’re contractors who aren’t integral to his business and with whom he has an arms‐length relationship with. 
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Dec 11, 2020 05:31
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Absurd Alhazred posted:None of those actions seem out of line for someone running a non-profit? Also what's with using that term? Personally I find the concept of allocating part of one's tithe to the richest person on the planet to support fantastic dreams of an off-world colonial dystopia a little absurd, but I suppose it depends on one's perspective.
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Dec 11, 2020 05:44
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eXXon posted:Personally I find the concept of allocating part of one's tithe to the richest person on the planet to support fantastic dreams of an off-world colonial dystopia a little absurd, but I suppose it depends on one's perspective. Zubrin isn't all that rich as far as I know.
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Dec 11, 2020 05:47
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Zubrin isn't all that rich as far as I know. I was referring to AmazonSmile with the first part, although it barely registers on the scale of tech nightmares.
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Dec 11, 2020 06:05
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How are u posted:Do you have evidence to back up this assertion? i think the main thing preventing colonization is that human bodies really do not do well in space. it takes a ton of time and money to make an environment that highly skilled, capable people can live in - similar to under the sea. we've been able to colonize underwater for a while, at least near the coast, but there is no real reason to put gobs of people underwater as opposed to just the bare few people you need for some task. imo we are far more likely to see a small group of space workers overseeing a large network of largely automated research and industry
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Dec 11, 2020 06:06
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eXXon posted:I was referring to AmazonSmile with the first part, although it barely registers on the scale of tech nightmares. I thought AmazonSmile went the other way: people who already buy on Amazon funnel some of that money (or some kind of match from Amazon?) to a charity or non-profit.
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Dec 11, 2020 06:11
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I thought AmazonSmile went the other way: people who already buy on Amazon funnel some of that money (or some kind of match from Amazon?) to a charity or non-profit. Amazon gets to claim the tax deduction. Checking out through Amazon Smile gives Amazon slightly less money than checking out normally, but way more money than shopping elsewhere. If your options are Amazon or the highway, use Smile, but please don’t choose Amazon over other retailers because “I can help charities with Smile”.
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Dec 11, 2020 06:20
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Platystemon posted:Amazon gets to claim the tax deduction. Well, I mean, I'm not going to, but this is what I was responding to: eXXon posted:buy [Zubrin's] book, donate to the Mars Society on Giving Tuesday, and select them through Amazon Smile. I don't see anything suggesting that he's insisting people use Amazon over other retailers, seems reasonable to ask that people do that if they're already buying from Amazon, which is a lot of people? Is he a "capo" for asking that people use all venues to spend on his charity?
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Dec 11, 2020 06:28
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Is he a "capo" for asking that people use all venues to spend on his charity? It’s mob slang for captain, not sure what you are projecting into this.
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Dec 11, 2020 06:43
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Anza Borrego posted:It’s mob slang for captain, not sure what you are projecting into this. Is this a joke or ignorance or what? It’s a strong term.
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Dec 11, 2020 06:46
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Jesus loving christ I wasn't calling him a Nazi any more than czars are all literally Russian emperors.
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Dec 11, 2020 06:54
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eXXon posted:Jesus loving christ I wasn't calling him a Nazi any more than czars are all literally Russian emperors. "Mob captain" seems a bit much, too. Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Dec 11, 2020 |
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Dec 11, 2020 07:24
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Platystemon posted:Is this a joke or ignorance or what? C and K are different letters, my dude https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caporegime
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Dec 11, 2020 07:32
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I believe eXXon when he says he didn’t mean it that way, especially because it doesn’t really make sense in context, but the “traitorous collaborator” meaning is the one that came to my mind, and Absurd Alhazred’s reaction was also suggestive of that. I have seen it spelled with a ‘c’ quite frequently. Do a Google Books search for “camp capo” and you’ll get plenty of results.
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Dec 11, 2020 07:39
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I have no idea how anyone jumped to Nazis instead of the mob. Did none of y'all ever watch the Sopranos 
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Dec 11, 2020 07:43
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Platystemon posted:I believe eXXon when he says he didn’t mean it that way How did he mean it then? Neither "Nazi collaborator" or "mob captain" seem fitting to the "crime" of soliciting donations for the non-profit he runs. Nissin Cup Nudist posted:I have no idea how anyone jumped to Nazis instead of the mob. Did none of y'all ever watch the Sopranos I learned about kapos in school before the Sopranos ever aired. But, again, what's the mobster behavior when you're running a non-profit and ask people to donate to it, exactly?
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Dec 11, 2020 07:44
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kapo is an extremely esoteric word that I don't expect many to know exists, whereas capo has been said in numerous films, television and video games featuring the italian mob for several decades.
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Dec 11, 2020 19:09
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