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KellHound posted:I'm also gonna add a counter example. Mission Hill is a really good show, but a lot of what it's about reflects better on right now rather than early 2000s when it came out. And while it's quick with it's writing and has a unique world view, it didn't go longer than a season. If it came out now would have probably done better or at least well enough to get renewed a couple of times. See, I think the show could only work when it did, because in 2020 the Mission Hills of American cities have largely been gentrified to hell and back. The creators have said that, had the show continued, the long-term plot was for Andy to achieve Matt Groening-level success as a cartoonist, becoming absolutely miserable and jaded in the process. With that kind of cynicism so entrenched in the show's DNA, I suspect a running background plot about the gradual death of the neighborhood would've been in there as well. GoutPatrol posted:I believe both of those shows were made directly to get some of that Mad Men chum runoff. Both tried to get viewers by saying "its the 60s (like Mad Men), on Network TV!" And they both blew chunks, the end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNVWqdxNWpU Here's the Playboy Club pilot if anybody's interested in seeing a few minutes of that. It definitely feels like network execs said "We get why people watch Mad Men: Costuming. Women wear colorful dresses, and all the stoic guys wear suits and Brylcreem the crap outta their hair. Just slap any ol' primetime soap plot on it, if attractive people look good in period outfits, people will tune in." (That Youtube account is a pro follow, by the way. Guy has been uploading pilots for fairly short-lived series on there for a while, some going back as far as the mid-90's. Quality's not the best, but where else are you going to see the first episode of The Brotherhood of Poland, New Hampshire or Wednesday 9:30 (8:30 Central)?)
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Dec 15, 2020 06:57
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JethroMcB posted:See, I think the show could only work when it did, because in 2020 the Mission Hills of American cities have largely been gentrified to hell and back. The creators have said that, had the show continued, the long-term plot was for Andy to achieve Matt Groening-level success as a cartoonist, becoming absolutely miserable and jaded in the process. With that kind of cynicism so entrenched in the show's DNA, I suspect a running background plot about the gradual death of the neighborhood would've been in there as well. While I don't disagree that those things are baked into the show, I think they would resinate more now because of that. Gentrification gets talked about more in media. But apparently a spin off series about Gus and Wally is in development. If it gets made, we'll find out.
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Dec 15, 2020 09:17
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JethroMcB posted:See, I think the show could only work when it did, because in 2020 the Mission Hills of American cities have largely been gentrified to hell and back. The creators have said that, had the show continued, the long-term plot was for Andy to achieve Matt Groening-level success as a cartoonist, becoming absolutely miserable and jaded in the process. With that kind of cynicism so entrenched in the show's DNA, I suspect a running background plot about the gradual death of the neighborhood would've been in there as well. The Playboy show was some terrible writing because the studio execs may have wanted Mad Men but from the pilot or early episodes a major plot point was the bouncers/male employees of the club killed one of the "key" members, his key was found by 2 random guys who then tried to get into the club, and so a recurring plot was established where it seemed like someone was going to get caught.
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Dec 15, 2020 10:21
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Season 2, Episode 6 - Maidenform Written by Matthew Weiner, Directed by Phil Abraham Joan Holloway posted:You're in their country. Learn to speak the language. To the decidedly non-contemporary tune of Infanta, the episode opens to first Betty Draper, then Joan Holloway, and finally Peggy Olson getting dressed, all of them of course wearing bras. The music cuts abruptly as a magazine is tossed onto Don Draper's desk, showing an advertisement for Maidenform bras. Maidenform is the closest competitor to Playtex, who are a client of Sterling Cooper, which is why Don Draper is so confused why this ad is being brought to him.... why does Playtex care about the advertising of a decidedly second-place competitor when their own sales continue to rise off the back of the Agency's efforts? It is the subject of a meeting spearheaded by Herman "Duck" Phillips, and in attendance are Peggy, Salvatore, Ken, Freddy but also Roger Sterling. Playtex are apparently jealous of the youthful, sexy advertising of their competitor and want something a little more exciting for their own advertising campaign. Don still doesn't understand why, though Roger guesses that somebody high up in the company has a wife with an opinion she has burrowed into his ear. Even Freddy, never the sharpest tool, points out that if they give Playtex what they want, then it'll just be two bra brands with the same marketing - when you're selling essentially identical products, you really don't want to be reminding people of that. Ken, partly to tease, demands Peggy tell them if she wears Playtex and, if so, why? Awkwardly, Peggy manages to stammer out statistics on their own surveys showing a preference for how well undergarments fit, and then lump herself safely in among those numbers. Ken really just wanted an excuse to crack a joke though, as he declares that he finds both brands open easily. Don pulls things back to business, agreeing that keeping a client happy is important but leaving hanging in the air that "someone" should be working to encourage their client not to jump on a bandwagon. Duck doesn't leave the challenge hanging, biting back that maybe the client wants them to raise the bar, but that doesn't do him any favors as Don coldly asks why they would want that when their share of the market keeps increasing. Roger plays peacemaker, pointing out it won't do any harm to throw the client a bone and make them feel like the creative they're being billed for are actively working on things for them. Duck, again unhelpfully, suggests that coming up with a new idea won't be too hard and throws out a vaguely worded bit himself that leaves the other creatives in the room staring at him blankly. Don at least doesn't make him squirm on this though, taking control and telling Peggy ("just the man!" Freddy endorses) to do some research into Playtex's unique benefits. He makes no promises to Duck that he can take to Playtex, but he is at least going to put his people to work on the "new" project, even if he laments that "new" Playtex is just going to be old Maidenform.   After Duck leaves the meeting, his anxious secretary (Joyce, the woman that Cooper "fired" a couple episodes ago) informs him that his wife is here early, not sure exactly how to describe the divorced couple. Duck calms her, saying to simply call her Pauline, looking over at where his wife is fussing over their two children, then marches over to greet them. He has put on a forced smile, but it widens genuinely when he spots somebody else has come along too... his dog, Chauncey! Enthusiastically he greets the happy dog which rushes to see him, everybody around the office beaming to see dog especially, but also the heartfelt display. He shakes his son's hand and gives his daughter a kiss on the cheek, before he and his ex cordially greet each other. That cordiality soon fades though as they mutter polite, smiling accusations at each other: she should have told him she'd be early, she only came now because she knows how bad he is in the afternoons (a reference to his drinking), she KNOWS that this isn't the case anymore (a reference to his sobriety) etc. Pauline puts a stop to it by declaring she has to leave, giving her son a kiss (he winces) before making her exit. Duck leads the kids towards his office, promising them they may have seen A Funny Thing Happened but not from the seats he's managed to get them. He can't get out of work just yet though since they're early, so they'll need to do their homework while they wait. This gets the first complaint, it's Memorial Day coming up so they don't actually have much in the way of homework to do... so they'll just be sitting in his office? Freddy stops Duck as he goes, and Duck introduces his kids: Mark and Patricia, plus of course Chauncey. Freddy wants a word in private but Duck doesn't read the situation, happily telling him to go ahead and ask whatever question he wants. So Freddy blurts out that they need another box of brassieres, causing Patricia to be the one to wince this time, while her father has to take a beat before assuring Freddy that is fine and sending him on his way. In Pete Campbell's office, he's looking over photos of some of the test subjects they want to use to showcase the skin-cleaning power of Clearasil. He's impressed by the improved complexion, but the girl in the photo doesn't look happy and that's a problem. Peggy and Sal are sitting on the other side, Peggy trying to argue the case for the serious looking girl while Sal waited bored for a decision to be made. Peggy has an idea though, and it intrigues Pete: maybe the subjects whose skin cleared up best aren't the most photogenic... but what if they turned it into a photo-series for a date? Or better yet, turned it into a television advertisement? Mr. and Mrs. Fresh Face excitedly preparing to go out, confident at last, their skin now so clear that they don't even think about it. Pete, who once actively resisted Peggy being brought on to his father-in-law's company, is more than happy to let her spin the story for him, with Peggy herself seeming to get caught up a little in the romance of it all. The only sour note is that she clearly doesn't like his suggestion of,"Thanks, Clearasil" to top the advertisement off, though Sal says he can definitely work with that as a line if need be. Pete isn't quite ready to pitch it to his father-in-law just yet though, but he's happy for Peggy to take away the idea and finesse it some more, and for Sal to start drafting up potential artwork. Peggy makes her exit, satisfied but otherwise saying nothing, while Sal at least offers Pete well-wishes for the upcoming Memorial Day.   "Two kids who used to have a problem" - it could almost describe Pete and Peggy themselves, if Pete had any idea of the potentially marriage-obliterating consequences of his season 1 actions. Come Memorial Day, Don and the family attend the local country club to enjoy a Memorial Day function. Don chats with "Crab", a PR Representative who quietly admits that his old firm - Lem Jones Associates - was supposed to be involved in the PR aftermath of the Bay of Pigs invasion, and his team took the fall for the Cuban Revolutionary Council when that disastrous campaign fell apart almost as soon as it started. Meanwhile, Betty chats with a couple about the heat, none of them even blinking as they refer to the summer "the Rosenbergs got executed". The couple are more bothered by the thought of Sing-Sing losing power and hardened criminals roaming the streets of their neighborhood. Betty is left momentarily alone when the couple step away to greet another. As she lights up a cigarette, she's spotted from across the room by Arthur Case. He takes a moment then approaches to greet her, admitting he's been coming here since he was a kid and didn't know she was a member. She admits she and Don are here as a guest of the Pattersons, before asking where Tara is. He looks vaguely around the room and says he thinks she is "over there... I think" before quickly forgetting about his fiance to ask more about her. He admits he's noticed she hasn't been around riding when he is anymore, and he suspects she changed her schedule to avoid him (no poo poo!) but he doesn't want her to feel like she can't ride whenever she wants, and he'll be careful to stay out of her way. He goes to leave but she calls him back (Don, still talking to Crab, has noticed her chatting with the handsome young man), putting on a beaming smile and telling him they can still be friends. He's relieved, cracking a joke at his own expense about his bad horse-riding skills... until suddenly Sally and Bobby come rushing in and excitedly hug their mother. Suddenly Arthur's entire face falls and he offers a quick,"It was nice to see you" and makes his exit. All that bullshit about being the sensitive man and admitting his faults, the self-deprecating jokes... it was all (consciously or subconsciously) horseshit so he could get into a position to make another move. The moment, the VERY second he saw her with kids and realized she's a mother his sexual interest in her nosedived... and the second he wasn't sexually interested anymore his desire to stick around and be friends also disappeared. What a piece of poo poo. Don and Crab are still talking, having moved on past Crab's former employers to the current President. Crab is not a fan, speaking with contempt about how all Kennedy's vigor disappeared after Bay of Pigs and now all he does is chase starlets, while Jackie Kennedy travels the world wowing people with her smile. Don, who was shaken when Kennedy (Pete) defeated Nixon (himself), seems to have taken Bert Cooper's assurances to heart: things are going great for him personally so he's happy, which means he can declare with a smile that "everybody" is happy. Now Crab though, he admits he's building a bomb shelter, an admission that surprises Don. Crab asks him not to mention he knows to Petra (Crab's wife) as she is trying to keep it quiet, then makes his goodbyes, but not before assuring Don he'd be happy to give him a reference at any time, and their PR Firm would love to have somebody like him working for them too. The MC asks everybody to take a seat, so Don rejoins his wife and children at a table. The MC reminds everybody that the club always holds its Ribs & Fashion Show on Memorial Day each year, but it is not meant to detract from the brave sacrifices of the men whom have served in the military this holiday is meant to honor. So he asks that all servicemen present - including Lester Aaron, a Rough Rider legit wearing his old uniform! - please stand for a moment of heartfelt appreciation from those also gathered. The men - some in uniform, others not - all do as they are told, as the rest assembled applaud them loudly. Don Draper is among those who stand, but he grimaces and forces a smile, detesting the attention and feeling like a fraud. After all, he may have actually served, but he's living under the name of another now long-dead soldier, whose service record he used to both get out of Korea and to bolster his employ-ability when he started his new life. He can't help but feel like a fraud, because, well quite frankly... he is! What makes matters worse is that not only his wife among those who are staring at him with pride, but his precious daughter Sally beams up at him with adulation, which only makes him feel worse.   Pete and Trudy have Pete's brother Bud and his wife Judy over for a BBQ, where Pete can't help but crack a poor taste joke about the kitchen staff at the country club they're NOT eating at probably not washing their hands. Bud complains about the quality of the J&B whiskey on offer, though Pete points out it was a gift from a client. Judy asks where they will be "summering" and Trudy says they're thinking Point O'Woods, but Pete shuts that down with a reminder he has to work. Bud though points out that whether the plan is work or Point O'Woods, their mother will be expecting Pete at Fishers as per tradition. Pete cracks a line about her taking the widows walk and keeping an eye out to sea, and Judy doesn't find the two men joking about their mother's death to be particularly funny. Trudy has her help her in the kitchen, and Bud takes the chance to get serious, reminding Pete he should take vacation time when he can get it and asking for confirmation that Trudy's parents have an "incredible vacation spread". Pete openly lies about the reason he doesn't want to take advantage of this, claiming with just a hint of underlying smugness that he is "needed" at the office, and that "my absence is felt". This is the same man who so recently complained to his doctor that he was utterly replaceable and took no joy from his work. But why would he tell his brother the truth? It's far more important to present a front of to his brother and "prove" himself... plus it helps keep him away from the father-in-law who he clearly still feels beholden to for all the money he has pumped into the marriage. At the country club, the fashion show proceedings have started. Women wander through in their bikinis, but Don has no eye for any of them, instead quietly telling Betty he needs to leave. She's surprised and disappointed, though she tries to make a joke of it by saying she was sure THIS at least he would stick around for. He just murmurs that there will be people at the office and he'll be expected to make an appearance, and when she points out he is going to miss the sparklers he jokes that she can call him from the emergency room (probably not all that funny for her given she had to take Bobby there not so long ago). He leaves, and she fumes quietly, not at all happy that he's leaving them on a holiday/family outing to return to work. He's doing nothing of the sort though, of course, and it has nothing to do with his unease over the earlier celebration of servicemen. Outside the Club he jumps into a phone-booth and puts through a call to Bobbie Barrett in her hotel room, apparently having arranged to meet with her all along in spite of being out with his family. Unfortunately for him, Bobbie has had to change their plans, because her son has shown up and even she isn't so pathetic and selfish as to ditch her child on Memorial Day to go gently caress around. That's kind of burying the lede though, as he is shocked to discover she has a son, even more so to learn he is 18, which must have him doing some fast arithmetic trying to figure out exactly how old Bobbie is. Bobbie promises him though that while today is out of the picture, Jimmy is going to be at the Beverly Hills (a club in Kentucky, not the hotel in Los Angeles) for the next 10 days. She suggests she stay out at the beach and he can join her, reminding him that they never made it to the beach that night. He's not stimulated by that memory though, nor her admission that she sometimes finds herself thinking about the crash and his body crushing against hers. He grunts that he will call her and hangs up, and then left with no extra-marital affair to rush to, he... just goes home. He doesn't make an appearance at the office like he told Betty, but he also doesn't take the chance to win brownie points by returning to the Club and saying he changed his mind. Instead he just goes home, and stands in an empty house, drinking milk from the bottle and feeling utterly alone and miserable. Just like he did at the end of season 1, though at least there he had the excuse of having missed the window to rejoin his family. Here he has actively run away from them, and for nothing, simply to go be miserable and alone.  The holiday over, everybody returns to work, including Pete Campbell who makes a pit-stop at Peggy's office/the photocopier to happily tell her he ran "Thanks, Clearasil" past his father-in-law who loved it. Peggy is a little unsure how to react, happy that the client liked her idea but clearly still less than enamored with Pete's contribution (it is better than Duck's "I woke up feeling like so-and-so" from earlier at least). The trouble is, having delivered the news... Pete sticks around. He makes small-talk, asks what she did on the holiday etc. She's polite but her answers are short and to the point - she worked, then went to a family barbecue, and it was too hot. Pete finally comes out with it, admitting that he's aware she isn't a fan of the line. Peggy waves that off though, remarking that it's BOTH their jobs to keep his father-in-law happy, a comparison between the two of them and their roles that Pete clearly doesn't like being made. She defuses that little bomb though... but he STILL doesn't leave. In fact he begins asking her some more probing questions, like is she still in Brooklyn? Still at the old place? No? Then does she still have a roommate or does she live alone? Sirens must be blaring in Peggy's head, memories of Pete showing up at her door unannounced, further memories of where that all ended up leading and how it almost derailed her entire life. So when he probes a little further, clearly trying to see if she's dating anybody (and if not, he can assume that gives him the go-ahead so just show up at her door again?) she puts a stop to things in as polite a way as possible, pointing out all the work she has to do. He agrees and makes a quick exit, having come sniffing around over a year after their disastrous (he has no idea) and short-lived office affair like he can just pick things up where they left off. Jane brings Don a coffee and asks how his day off went, happily informing him she went to the beach... as is obvious, because she's practically growing orange from the sunburn. She admits she got burned behind the knees, frowning a little as she points out that it hurts to sit down. Roger Sterling arrives and she greets him then makes a quick exit to give them privacy, despite the sunburn it seems she's lasted long enough that Don at least acknowledges her now... and Roger of course absolutely sees her. After getting a long look at her leaving, he asks if Betty has seen her yet and insists he get to be there when it happens. Don laughs, then tosses him his pack of cigarettes and good-naturedly tells him to take his cigarette and leave, it now just a matter of fact that Roger - who "doesn't" smoke anymore thanks to his wife - bums a cigarette off everybody. Roger hasn't just come to smoke and leer though, he's also here to inform (instructing or commanding might be a better word) that Don and Duck are going to have lunch together. He makes a joke of it, but he also makes it clear it IS going to happen, he wants the bad blood over American Airlines dealt with and he isn't going to accept Don's assurance that it is over already, reminding him that he attends those meetings too and can see how icy things are between them. He leaves, giving Don a knowing glance after a peek at the standing Jane with her back to him. It's all fun and games for Roger, but Don again finds himself in a position of having to do something he doesn't want to do, something he increasingly has less and less patience for. In Duck's office, he brings his kids two hot chocolates, they're to wait in his office until their mother arrives to collect them. Mark doesn't want one, but Duck ignores that to insist he does, and can't help but get in a little paternal dig by pointing out that if he's stayed in the Scouts he'd know you take a hot drink when it is hot. He prepares to leave for his morning meeting, leaving cash on the desk and telling them they can get something from the food cart when it comes around... which is when everything goes south. Mark proudly proclaims he has money of his own, $150 in fact! Patricia hisses at him to be quiet but the cat is out of the bag, and when Duck asks him where he got the money, learns it was given to him by "Mr. Reeve". Duck knows exactly who that is, and probably suspects the answer when he asks WHY he would give this money to Mark. Patricia, who it seems got money too, quietly explains that it is because Mr. Reeve wants them to be happy... when he marries their mother. Duck's entire life, including his probably unspoken belief that somehow he'd end up reunited with his family, collapses on him in that moment, but he holds it together admirably. Breath momentarily taken, he recovers and nods, saying that whatever his intentions the amount given is generous. It keeps getting heaped on though, Mark revealing that Mr. Reeve has already asked their mother, causing Duck - trying his best to maintain a level head - to turn this around by pretending it is the kids who are devastated, reminding them that they must have known their mother AND him would eventually start building new lives. "We understand, we just don't care," notes Patricia, but Duck keeps on pushing on, coming to a defense of their mother she really doesn't need from him, finishing with a pained declaration that "Franklin Reeve is a good man." But there's one last blow to come, one that Duck's composure can't hold up against. Patricia admits that their mother is going to make Duck take Chauncey back, and now he loses his cool, especially when Mark adds in that this isn't going to be some point in the future, it means today. He insists that Chauncey needs to stay with them, arguing angrily that despite being his dog, he left Chauncey with them so they could have consistency in their lives. The trouble is, the consistency he wanted them to have, laudable as it may be, is no longer required. Pauline is marrying Franklin (Frank, Patricia calls him) and they're all moving on, they have consistency... it just doesn't involve Duck in any fashion. The final blow comes when Patricia tells him that "Frank" is allergic, simply furthering the reveal that Franklin Reeve is a major, major part of their lives now, and his needs easily supplant Duck's own. It's easy to feel sympathy for him, especially with the way the hits keep coming, but it pays to remember the stories about him when he first arrived at the tail end of season 1. He was an alcoholic, he blew up his entire career, marriage and life, allegedly over a torrid affair that went very public. That he seems to have rebuilt himself and stayed sober is great, but his family having moved on without him in the meantime is NOT their fault, they don't owe him anything. Duck half knows that, and half knows that his morning meeting can't wait and there is little to be gained from arguing his case to his children who have no real say in the matter. So, defeated, he simply reminds them to wait for their mother to arrive, and gives his daughter a passing kiss that now probably feels far more final than he ever expected even if she and Mark are going to remain part of his life. He's just going to be a far less integral piece from this point forward, he has been replaced.   Freddy, Sal, Ken and Peggy come to see Don in his office... along with Paul Kinsey, who seems to be leading the charge as he excitedly explains "we" had an interesting idea. Don is confused by this, asking if Paul is on Playtex, by which he means,"Paul, you are NOT on Playtex." Ken laughs that Kinsey just wants to make sure he gets credit for his idea, and Don listens with interest as Paul makes his pitch... listened in on by an anxious Peggy. Paul explains they went out drinking after the meeting before Memorial Day, where he grasped the truth about American women: their fantasy isn't some exotic place, it's a desire to be one of the two women of America's current obsession: Jackie Kennedy or Marilyn Monroe. Opening Don's door, he singles out various women and classifies them as either a Jackie or a Marilyn (with Joan the exception, Paul laughing that Marilyn is actually a Joan but just doesn't know it), using this as the basic starting point from which they can appeal to women with Playtex... as well as get some of that sexiness the company wants in it too. Freddy laughs that he has apparently already signed off on this idea, and Ken pulls out a cocktail napkin with scrawlings all over it that makes everybody laugh... except for Peggy. Clearly this is the first time she is hearing about ANY of this, and she is supposed to be "the right man for the job" on this account: she is the expert on women's undergarments, but Kinsey is now the one pushing the concepts they want? She makes a vain effort to counter this simplistic bisection of ALL American women into one of two idealized forms, and Paul's response is shocking in both its audacity and arrogance: "Bras are for men." On top of that, he goes so far as to tell Peggy - a woman - how women think and what they want, which in his mind is that women want to see themselves the way men see them. Sal adds to that, smugly telling Peggy that she (and all women) are either a Jackie or a Marilyn, a line or a curve, and that's that. Still holding onto hope she can derail this, she asks them which they think SHE is, getting an immediate,"Gertrude Stein" joke from Ken and a far more diplomatic "Irene Dunne" from Don. But diplomacy aside, Don has made his decision: Paul Kinsey is now on Playtex, though it is to be in conjunction with Peggy. Paul is thrilled of course, Peggy still has reservations and Chauncey is just happy to be there. Yes, Duck's dog has come barreling happily into the room alongside Duck as he pops in to check on things. Everybody is happy to see the dog of course, and Duck is happy when not only does he get no resistance from Don for a change over asking about an account, but Don freely gives him a preview of what they're planning on and tells him he can bring Playtex in as early as tomorrow for a pitch. Duck confirms with Don what Jane told him about him being free for lunch, then takes Chauncey with him, having gotten at least some good news for the day. Don sends the rest out, but once outside Peggy tries to get Freddy alone to discuss what happened. She's upset that there was a meeting that took place without her knowing about it, and to Freddy's credit he immediately promises that if she has a better idea than Paul's he will happily pitch it to Don. That isn't the point though, especially since Don has a direction he's happy with so there's no point trying to change it now. Her problem is not being involved, if she'd been at the meeting she could have at least been a part of the discussion or at least considered part of the team. As it is now, she's co-creative on something that has been put together completely independently of her. NOT to Freddy's credit, he dismisses her saying she wanted to be at the bar with them by laughing she really didn't, points out she shouldn't complain about not having to do work, then instructs her to go write him some titillating copy and actually gives her a slap on the rear end with his folder before going into his own office. For the woman who finally had the guts to call "Mr. Draper" by his first name last week and push the idea of them as peers, this sudden sidelining and condescending reduction to her gender is not a happy development in her career. 
Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Dec 20, 2020 |
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Dec 15, 2020 16:47
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Duck sits alone in his office, pondering his life when he's informed over the intercom that Don is here to see him. Don enters and admits that he's not planning to return to the office after lunch, so can they have this conversation now? Duck acts surprised, claiming Roger told him this was just a friendly lunch, but Don doesn't raise to admitting there is a problem, still wanting to act like there is nothing wrong on HIS end. He notices the ducks up on Duck's wall, Duck admitting that he's got a crate of that type of thing from multiple unimaginative people who think it is a cute play on his nickname. He clearly isn't a man interested in decoration, his desk is bare and he admits he doesn't like anything being on his desk other than ashes. This small talk is just getting in the way though, so as they take a seat opposite each other on the couches, he admits that he has been having trouble figuring out how things work at Sterling Cooper. Don remarks that it has been 18 months, making a joke of them not being THAT unusual that in turn suggests that Duck is the one at fault. Duck defends himself by pointing out he's been out doing the job he was hired to do, which is selling people on Sterling Cooper as the place to be. Here Don disagrees though, he was the one who lead the search for a new Head of Accounts Services, and in his mind that role involves priming clients for pitches coming to them. Instead, Duck is constantly bringing Don the clients' pitches and forcing Don into a position to work on their ideas instead of his own, which is what HE is paid for. Duck considers this, then tries to make an analogy to his time in the Marine Corps. If he thought he could use the recent Memorial Day, or Don's own service record, to illicit sympathy, he's misjudged. Don tears it apart, demanding to know what he's saying, who Don is meant to be, if this is claiming that Duck is covering for Don as if he needed it etc. Duck defends himself here, not regretting for a second that he pushed so hard for them to pursue American Airlines, making the point once again that Roger has also made: just being in the equation means the advertising world looks at them differently now, as a real player. It didn't work out and they lost Mohawk without gaining another airline, so if Don wants to hit him with that,"I told you so" then he can go ahead... but Duck is the only person that looks bad out of this whole situation (his in with Shel ended up proving worthless) so can they just move on. Either because he simply wants to leave, or because hearing it all laid out like this actually does mollify him legitimately, Don agreed that of course they can move on. They shake hands, Don promises Duck he'll tell Roger they had lunch, and then he leaves. Duck waits for him to go, then collapses back into the couch, petting Chauncey. It's hard to say if he feels real progress was made or if he still thinks Don holds him in disdain, but he got himself through a tough meeting on what has been a really, really lovely day. The reason for Don's eagerness to get away for the afternoon is simple enough: he wants what he was denied on Memorial Day. Joining Bobbie in her hotel room, they have sex, Bobbie basking in post-coital bliss on her stomach while Don is pressed against her back. She doesn't want them to break contact, but as they light up cigarettes she has him check the time and is disappointed to find out it is after 4, she needs to leave soon to attend her daughter's play. Don is shocked again, a daughter this time? He asks if that is everyone which gets a laugh from Bobbie, who casually throws in that her daughter is at Sarah Lawrence, which again has Don doing the arithmetic as he considers Bobbie has a college-aged daughter in addition to an 18-year-old son. She's amused when he asks how long she needs to prepare, realizing he doesn't want to go, so she suggests he stay in the room while she's going, laughing that he can go through her things while she's gone. He points out he would never leave her alone in his place and she giggles that of course he would, declaring them both the same and delighting in that fact that now she knows what he enjoys and understand how his mind works. Don doesn't respond, but he doesn't seem particularly happy or impressed by his insistence that she has his number. The rest of Sterling Cooper is still at work, though in the loosest sense of the world. Peggy is alarmed to see a number of woman packed into the corridor outside the casting office. Ken pops out the door of the casting office itself to see who is next and surprised to see Peggy, who is equally surprised to see him, why wasn't she told about this? Ken shrugs, he didn't think she'd be interested, but he offers to let her come in as well. Not wanting to seem desperate, Peggy says it is fine, but she is concerned that Paul might be in there. Ken notes there are a LOT of men in the packed room, but promises her he won't let Paul come to any decisions without her. With that he brings in the next girl, and the door gets shut in Peggy's face as she's literally shut out of the process.   As Pete is leaving the office, he's surprised if pleased to see a dog sitting in the middle of the floor. He greets "her", then Duck arrives looking for him. Pete jokingly apologizes to Chauncey for calling him a her and then asks Duck where the dog has been hidden away all this time, and Duck happily lies that he made his wife (note he doesn't say ex) give him back because he missed him so much. Pete muses that he likes dogs, and ponders whether he should bring one in too since he thinks this creates an easy-going, friendly atmosphere that clients would like. Duck is interested in the idea and asks which breed Pete has, and is startled when Pete immediately admits he doesn't have one... he was literally thinking of buying a dog just to leave in the office. He may be worrying about money for the first time in his life the last couple of years, but if that isn't a sign of a rich kid who grew up with everything provided for. He was just gonna get a dog, bring it to the office and then... just let it roam around? No house training, who would feed the dog, where would it sleep, who would train it to keep it from barking etc. None of those thoughts even crossed his mind. Duck pauses for a second, then states this isn't a good idea before saying goodnight and heading off. Pete continues on to the elevator, where he notices a pretty woman waiting. He lets her enter first, then strikes up a conversation with her on the ride down, asking why she was at the Agency. She explains she was in an audition for Playtex, and Pete just blurts out that the others have been calling those "Bra-ditions". She giggles at the line though, then admits that she already knows her casting call didn't go well, complaining that they brought her in because they liked her picture, then didn't like her in the flesh... but in the end it will be a picture going out! Pete, all but openly leering at her by this point, says he can't imagine a photo being better than what he sees in front of him now. She smiles at that but admits she may be tired from having just returned from London, a reveal that he finds impressive. He gives her his card when she asks for his name, and she's impressed to see he is an account executive. They depart the lift, the operator giving a little double-take at watching Pete so openly romantically pursuing this woman. Whatever he's saying (or perhaps just his job title) is impressive enough to her that she takes him back to her place. Having struck out with Peggy earlier, he's faring far better with this woman and nothing is going to stop his attempt to cheat on his wife yet again... including her mother opening the room divider and glaring in at them as her daughter does a seductive pose for Pete. The only nod the woman makes to her mother being just in the next room is to turn the TV on so the noise will drown out the noise as she and Pete begin making out to a recitation of High Flight. It's a seedy situation, everything seems designed to remove any artifice or romance or even eroticism... but Pete doesn't care, he's gotten it into his head today to cheat and since Peggy wasn't interested in their old games, he's found this complete stranger to violate the sanctity of his marriage vows with instead. He returns home late at night, sensitive enough to try to avoid making any noise. As he removes his coat and places his keys down, he catches his reflection in the mirror. You would expect him to feel a moment's remorse, to not recognize the man he wants to be with the man he actually is. Instead, he looks at himself in the mirror... and smiles. Because he feels no remorse at all, if anything he feels thrilled to have gotten away with his infidelity.  The next morning at the Draper Residence, Betty is pouring milk into Sally's cereal while Bobby wanders around the kitchen wearing a bucket on his head and playing with an egg-beater. Don enters the kitchen and she offers to make him something, and he is caught off-guard, asking what that is. She thinks he means the cereal at first but then grasps he is talking about what she is wearing... or rather, not wearing. She's in a small two-piece bikini, one she purchased at the fashion show/auction on Memorial Day. She proudly poses in it, asking if he likes it, and he asks to speak to her alone for a moment. She follows him down the corridor, a little confused, sensing something is off. Quietly he asks where she is going in that outfit, and she laughs, she's going swimming of course. He finally answers her earlier question: he does NOT like it. She's dismayed as he harangues her about wearing that outfit in front a 15-year-old lifeguard, in front of "tennis pros" and "loafing millionaires" (I wonder how much seeing her with Arthur Case even briefly at the Country Club stuck in his head?). She bought the outfit because she liked the way it looked and wanted to look like that too, which she does, and clearly all she wanted from him was the validation of admiring how good she looked in it. Instead he sneers at her that she looks desperate, making her feel old and pathetic and also somehow to blame if men ogle her. Because of course the thought of other men LOOKING at his wife enrages the man who frequently straight up cheats on her without a care in the world, but he has to make it seem like she is the one doing wrong. "I didn't know that," she offers in a quiet voice, and then he has the goddamn gall to just give her a quick kiss on the head and say goodbye, then casually collect his paper and walk out the door like he hasn't just completely taken the air out of her sails and left her feeling awful. Let alone, standing inside her own house where nobody can see her, she actually pulls her robe closed around her so as not to be exposed, utterly self-conscious now where before she was free and happy. Joan is making tea in the break room when Peggy comes to see her, upset that the secretaries haven't been including her in memos about the Playtex Account. Joan, calm as ever, says she'll take care of that, but that doesn't sooth Peggy's ruffled feathers, as she asks WHY she wasn't on the list in the first place. Joan doesn't know, those decisions don't run through her, but just like in season 1 when Peggy came to her in a panic, she knows how to get information out of her, and enjoys doing so. Peggy complains that there is business going on that she is not a part of, and she admits that she's come to Joan because nobody knows better than her how things work here. This is true, but even Joan admits that there are sections of Sterling Cooper she has no real knowledge of... and she's fine with that. She's never had Peggy's job and she never wanted it (a nice way of claiming without claiming that she could have had Peggy's job if she actually wanted it), but Peggy is in their country now so she needs to learn to speak their language. Peggy, still fixated on the fact Joan commands a level of respect in spite of her technically "lower" station, points out that Joan doesn't "speak their language", but Joan humble-brags that she doesn't need to... before getting in one last little poke by reminding Peggy that she's never listened to a word Joan said anyway. The power dynamic between these two is so fascinating. Peggy clearly is still intimidated by Joan even after no longer being under her supervision, while Joan is clearly threatened by Peggy's unprecedented rise and favor from secretary to Copywriter. Both have successfully risen up within Sterling Cooper in entirely different ways, and they're like oil and water as a result. But Joan also frequently offers advice that is, if not necessarily accurate and certainly not delivered nicely, meant sincerely. Such is the case when she offers the one bit of "language" she believes is universal, a line that actually parallels something Bobbie told Peggy last episode: if she wants to be taken seriously, she needs to stop dressing like a little girl.   Don pitches to Playtex, where without a shred of self-awareness after what he just did to Betty, informs everybody in the room that women want to look attractive to their men. So he unveils the new proposed product: The Harlequin. It comes in black and white, and the poster shows two women wearing both, one made to look like Jackie Kennedy and the other like Marilyn Monroe... except it is the same woman, just with different hair and different colored Playtex bra. The Playtex executives are wowed, this is EXACTLY what they wanted and they're thrilled, and Duck beams as he points out that this puts them into the same area as Maidenform just like they wanted. They agree.... but.... well, they've changed their minds about that. Before Duck's startled eyes, they explain they started considering how well sales have been going, how well the pre-existing campaigns have done for them, and realized... they're rather have the money than Maidenform's provocative advertising. Don nods and smiles, not betraying any sense of outrage or disappointment, simply agreeing that he couldn't say it better himself. Everybody else around the room follows his lead, laughing and affecting nonchalance at the decision to pass on this campaign... all but Paul Kinsey, who's face has fallen completely as he realizes nothing is going to come of his idea. They all shake hands and depart the room, leaving only Don and Duck... and Duck is pissed, though not at Don who gave everything he asked for AND charmed the pants of the execs. He can't believe they changed their mind over what THEY wanted on the cab ride over, meaning he didn't even get a chance to argue the cause. Don though remains relaxed, and it's not an act. He was pushed into making this pitch, but he's actually seen the benefits that Roger claimed. Playtex wanted something and they proved they could do it, and Playtex leaves the meeting more than happy because they've not got a great idea on file if they choose to change directions but also an already established, working and effective current campaign. Plus they love Sterling Cooper now, who have bent over backwards for them and shown them their range. This pitch, though it may have resulted in no new campaign, has secured the loyalty of a big client for at least a couple of years. As Ken leads the Playtex execs to the lifts, one of them - still feeling a little guilty over the wild goose chase - points out that they'd love to show their appreciation by taking them out for a night on the town... on Playtex's dime. The Sterling Cooper group are thrilled to hear that of course, Kinsey getting over his disappointment in a second. Freddy cracks a joke about taking them to see women in their underwear, hoping it isn't too much like work for them, and they all agree to meet at the Tom-Tom club. Their agreement is overheard by Peggy, who of course wasn't part of the group when the invite happened. As the day draws to a close and the offices start to empty out, Duck walks Chauncey through the corridors until he reaches an office, then walks through the door and startles the young man sitting at his desk reading a book and eating a sandwich. He complains that nobody has left copies of the art they're using in the evening papers tonight on his desk, and he wants to know why. The hapless goof races out to track down copies to get him, and Duck closes the door to give himself privacy... with the bottle of booze he knew was sitting waiting. Lifting a bottle, he opens the top and lifts it to his mouth to drink... and then finds himself staring into the face of his happy, adoring dog Chauncey. He hesitates, hesitates more... and lowers the bottle. He came within a hairsbreadth of breaking his oath, saved only by the simple love of his beloved dog. He leads Chauncey out of the office and into the lift, heading down to the lobby and marching with purpose towards the doors. You'd think this was a turning point, of Duck finally coming to terms with the changes in his life, his status at Sterling Cooper, perhaps even his working relationship with Don. Except when he reaches the doors, he pulls Chauncey's collar off, closes the door behind him... then marches back into the office and leaves his poor, poor dog outside, confused and abandoned. He waits patiently for his master to return, then moves off into the night, perhaps to explore some smell or see if he can find another way in. Duck doesn't return, and whether it's because he's gone to his office to grieve or to sneak alcohol after all I don't know... but he's gone, and now Chauncey is too.   gently caress. Don joins Bobbie at her hotel room again, she pours them champagne as he strips off his shirt. She says it is flattering to be able to keep him interested and he whispers at her to stop talking. He's in an aggressive mood, perhaps he wasn't quite so okay with Playtex screwing them around after all, and gets her onto the bed, kissing and grinding against her. She asks why he doesn't want her to talk, telling him he knows he really wants her to. In no mood to be told by anybody what he wants today, he ties up one of her arms, then refuses to follow her command to touch her, teasing her instead. He's smiling, but when she moans out to him to keep "torturing" her and give her the "full Don Draper treatment" his smile comes with a warning, she's spoiling the mood. She's not listening though, or misreading the room as she moans that she wanted it and she got it, and and it is better than "they" said. That brings him to a stop, who said? Still not reading him correctly, she tells him not to worry, he has lots of fans and a reputation as a "connoisseur". It's hard to think about the physical sensations he must be feeling as the full impact of her statement hits home: he has a reputation, there are people out there he has slept with who talk about him, word spreads around, his confidential little trysts are not so private after all. When Bobbie still doesn't grasp how serious he is being when he demands more information, he grabs her by the hair and tugs it, demanding a name. A little surprised by the pain, she answers, Sarah Tierney at Random House. He looks sick for a moment, then mutters out that he doesn't know what she's talking about. Bobbie laughs at the denial, treating it like a joke, telling him to just enjoy his "good" reptuation. This time though his hand goes (briefly) around her throat as he presses her back down when she tries to kiss him. Restraining both arms, he asks with not a tiny dollop of contempt if it makes her feel better to think he is like her... in other words, he thinks of himself as superior to her. He runs the rest of the rope through the headboard and ties up her other wrist, and she's back to thinking he's just playing around. She asks if he wants to blindfold her, getting off on the kinkiness... until he gets off the bed, collects his things, gets dressed and goes to leave. She's shocked, he's going? He turns and stares at her, any interest he had in her replaced with contempt, and tells her simply that he told her to stop talking. Then he walks out on her, for what feels like it must surely by the last time. At Tom-Tom, Playtex and Sterling Cooper execs are having a whale of a time watching the striptease acts. Ken invited Pete Campbell along and he was happy to join them. As they laugh and ogle though, Paul is surprised to see Peggy Olson walk into the place... nothing like she's ever looked before. Her hair is down, she's in a figure-hugging blue dress and showing plenty of cleavage. They call her over and she's acting completely different too, smiling and laughing and joking and not arguing with anything they say. She doesn't even complain when the older Playtex exec pulls her onto his lap and declares she is staying all night, actually laughing along with him. As the celebrations continue, everybody laughing and having a good time, Pete Campbell stares a hole through Peggy, much like he did when she danced the Twist and tried to get him to join her back in season 1. She meets his gaze momentarily, then drops it away. Even before she saw him, she was struggling to hold the smile. None of this comes naturally to her, she doesn't want to have to do this just to stay part of the circle when it comes to doing business, but she feels like she has to. Pete's judgement makes her more aware of that compromise, even if he has no loving right to judge her for anything. "I don't like you like this," he once told her, at a time when she was genuinely enjoying herself and wanted to make him part of it. He doesn't like her like this too... the difference this time being, it doesn't seem like Peggy likes herself like this either.   Don wakes the next morning as Betty is weighing herself on the scales. She asks what he wants for breakfast and he, coughing and hacking from all that smoking, grunts,"Grapefuit," without a please or thank you. He showers, then stands at the sink to shave. As he does, Sally enters the room and greets him happily, sitting on the toilet to stare up at him with that same pure adoration as on Memorial Day. She tells him not to worry, she isn't going to talk because she doesn't want him to cut himself. He's amused by his assurance and starts to go about his process again. But as he begins to shave, he catches sight of himself. Looking into his own eyes, he feels something wash over him: depression? revulsion? self-awareness? Dropping the razor into sink, he starts up the water, and Sally asks him if he is all right. "I think you better leave me alone," he manages to get out, and she does as she is told, even if she is a little confused as to why. Don dampens a towel and wipes away the shaving cream from his face. Leaving the sink, he sits down on the toilet and contemplates. What is he thinking? About who else might be out there talking openly about his infidelities? About whether his treatment of Bobbie will come back to bite him? About the type of man he has become that would so casually cheat on his wife in the first place? About the fact that he doesn't deserve the simple, pure, honest love and adoration his daughter showers on him simply for being himself? One thing is for sure, when Pete Campbell looked into the mirror after cheating on Trudy, he liked what he saw. He smiled, he was pleased with himself, saw it as a sign of virility and power, reveled in the little secret he had all to himself. Not so with Don. Whatever it was he saw or thought when he looked into the mirror, it wasn't anything he liked. On Memorial Day, he was one of those applauded genuinely by grateful peers. Today he's the cheating rear end in a top hat who lies to his wife and would rather hide away alone in the house than spend the day with his family. The question I often find myself asking when watching this show is,"Who is Don Draper." I sometimes feel like Don Draper doesn't know himself. What I do know, is that for this moment at least, whoever Don Draper is... Don Draper doesn't particularly like him.  Episode Index
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Dec 15, 2020 16:47
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Chauncey 
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Dec 15, 2020 18:46
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Finally I can talk about how much I hate the decemberists E: and also about how much of a bastard Duck is
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Dec 15, 2020 20:48
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2 corrections employability shouldn't be hyphenated, and it should be burying the lede not burying the lead. As much as the songs theme fit the show using a contemporary song rather than a period piece sticks out like a sore thumb. It makes the show feel a lot cheaper somehow, like one of those knockoffs people we're talking about earlier.
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Dec 15, 2020 21:03
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Lurkmaster 5000 posted:Chauncey Duck makes Don look like a good guy.
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Dec 15, 2020 21:18
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Cat Army
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MightyJoe36 posted:Duck makes Don look like a good guy. Feel like they had Duck abandon a dog to make Don's treatment of Bobbie in the same episode seem less egregious by contrast And it works! Eat poo poo Duck.
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Dec 15, 2020 21:52
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Pictured: Chauncey getting his revenge.
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Dec 15, 2020 21:58
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Peggy's Clearasil ad is somewhat ahead of its time. Ads didn't usually tell stories back then. They were often pretty direct sales pitches about the benefits of a product. Sal is actually confused by the concept of Peggy's ad. He asks if she wants to do testimonials, and she has to clarify, "No, it's a story." This episode has two of my favorite laughs. 1. Sal claiming that all the kids on American Bandstand are drunk, and then just shrugging and saying "I dunno" when Peggy asks him if that's true. 2. Bud telling Pete that he saw their mother recently, and Pete was all she talked about! And then admitting, no, actually, that's not true at all. And Pete thinks it's funny! It really adds a lot to their relationship. Bud is clearly the favored child, and Pete is well... Pete, so it's quite unexpected that Pete can laugh with his brother about the fact that their mother has no affection for Pete. I've always figured that Pete appreciates that Bud acknowledges his favored status. Pete comes up with a totally lame tagline and tells Peggy to "play with it", which is very similar to Duck's suggestion to just "wrinkle it a little" before he makes his (absolutely atrocious) suggestion for Playtex. Despite mocking Duck's leadership in a recent episode, I think some of his direct report's habits and ideas are rubbing off on Pete. Roger has always respected the line between creative and accounts and seemed genuinely upset with Pete in season 1 when Pete pitched his own copy. Pete backed off from pitching his own creative ideas for a while after that, but now he's got a boss who clearly doesn't respect creative, and he's back to trying to work his own creative in. When Don tells Sally to leave him alone at the end of the episode, I think he's concerned about his carelessness. It's her choice of words, "I don't want you to cut yourself" that gets to him. Don's karmic debt is colossal, and he's been completely deluding himself that he's "getting away with it." Everyone knows he's a womanizer with poor control over his emotions. And Sally happens to trigger a moment of clarity for him.
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Dec 15, 2020 22:17
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Peggy's definitely ahead of her time in a lot of ways. It's often frustrating to watch, because her concept cuts to something pretty insightful that extremely successful ad campaigns have done IRL (decades after the 60's), but sexism's gonna sexism and nobody cares. I remember especially feeling that way in S4, when she comes up with an ultimately-rejected concept for Pond's. "The ritual of putting it on is an 'excuse' to indulge, and to look at yourself in the mirror without feeling vain or self-critical." In 2020, companies like Dove and Gillette do this exact thing all the time, selling their product to women as self-care or body-positive. But obviously, in the mid-60's that's going to get drowned out. "Pond's will keep all you aging spinsters from looking old as poo poo, so you'll finally earn a husband!"
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Dec 15, 2020 23:26
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Oh man, I totally forgot the Decemberists and the dog are in the same ep. I love them but it sticks out like a sore thumb. Worst song on that album too.
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Dec 16, 2020 00:21
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Xealot posted:I remember especially feeling that way in S4, when she comes up with an ultimately-rejected concept for Pond's. "The ritual of putting it on is an 'excuse' to indulge, and to look at yourself in the mirror without feeling vain or self-critical." In 2020, companies like Dove and Gillette do this exact thing all the time, selling their product to women as self-care or body-positive. But obviously, in the mid-60's that's going to get drowned out. "Pond's will keep all you aging spinsters from looking old as poo poo, so you'll finally earn a husband!" That one is very interesting. Don is divorced and trying to pick up the pieces, so he relates to it and backs Peggy's idea, but Dr. Miller can't find support for it in their focus group. The women there are deeply anxious about how their lives will turn out if they don't find a husband. And then Don doesn't care and says he wants to do the ad that way anyway because he will change their minds, dammit. Maybe he can, but it shows how being predatory is often a safer approach in advertising. If it's more reliable to motivate people with fear, you're risking making less money (PERISH THE THOUGHT) if you don't scare the hell out of them. That focus group is also Megan's first memorable moment. She's the only woman who seems like she'd be interested in the ritual angle. She says her beauty routine is what her mother always did, just gently massaging her face with warm water in front of a mirror. It sounds very close to what Peggy has in mind... But notably she doesn't use any product at all. That's the trouble with selling to people who aren't insecure*. They often believe they already have what they need. *Megan has insecurities, but she knows she's beautiful. GoutPatrol posted:Oh man, I totally forgot the Decemberists and the dog are in the same ep. I'm generally positive on the band, but, yeah. I think it's a misstep to use it here. I always spend that whole montage wondering how they came to the decision to use it.
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Dec 16, 2020 01:16
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Yoshi Wins posted:If it's more reliable to motivate people with fear, you're risking making less money (PERISH THE THOUGHT) if you don't scare the hell out of them. My job makes me very primed to like Mad Men, because I work for a production company that has a commercial division. And the tension between trying to make something compelling or new or high-minded vs. making some pandering, safe, ultimately toxic bullshit remains exactly how this show depicts it. I recall a specific scenario where my company was pitching a pharma ad for an ED pill. The strategy they went with was more the former, trying to make something affirming for their target (middle aged men who feel undesirable and insecure in their relationships because [dick problems].) It was all about how these men have accumulated wisdom and confidence, how their value isn't some waning youthful vitality but their ability to really see their partners, how their partners want *them* and not some idiot stud because they're more than their dick. Client rejected it. The ad they actually made: a super porn-y POV shot of some hot MILF giving bedroom eyes. "She's ready to gently caress, are you?" Xealot fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Dec 16, 2020 |
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Dec 16, 2020 01:47
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Xealot posted:a super porn-y POV shot of some hot MILF giving bedroom eyes. "She's ready to gently caress, are you?" Sold. I don't even have ED
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Dec 16, 2020 03:27
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Xealot posted:
Tbf that does sound like a better ad
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Dec 16, 2020 06:50
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MightyJoe36 posted:Duck makes Don look like a good guy. I was surprised by how much more I empathized with Duck on this watch. There's a strong undercurrent in the show about people dealing with the trauma of war, nearly every character we see who has a severe addiction to alcohol is someone self medicating to deal with it. I don't think it's any coincidence they set this episode on memorial day and directly brought up Don's service. Duck might be a prick but he was trying real hard to salvage his reputation at Sterling Cooper, and to not gently caress up his familial life. And then all this poo poo comes at him at once. Especially when you see how poo poo dealing with clients really is in season three with Connie, I'm surprised he didn't blow up faster.
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Dec 16, 2020 07:24
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Gaius Marius posted:I was surprised by how much more I empathized with Duck on this watch. There's a strong undercurrent in the show about people dealing with the trauma of war, nearly every character we see who has a severe addiction to alcohol is someone self medicating to deal with it. I don't think it's any coincidence they set this episode on memorial day and directly brought up Don's service. Yeah, world war 2 is a dark shadow haunting a lot of characters. It's surreal to think how many people back then were walking around silently dealing with trauma from it. In The Suitcase, Duck says he killed 17 men in Okinawa. I'm not sure I trust his count, but it's possible it was that high. Japanese casualties in the Battle of Okinawa are estimated at 110,000. It was an unbearably horrific battle, even by the standards of world war 2. If Duck was a marine in that battle, he would be racked with PTSD.
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Dec 16, 2020 08:36
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Jerusalem posted:Not at all, Don absolutely crosses a line and it's gross as hell. As soon as I saw it I knew that there were surely a not-insignificant chunk of the audience who completely missed the point (Don is both desperate AND has a hosed up view on women) and thought it was an example of Don being "alpha" or some other misogynistic bullshit. I think in a similar situation, Don would have held a loaded gun to Jimmy's dick though. At this juncture in his life, if backed into a corner, his response is the viscious, dark, and wild snapping of a cornered animal. Edit: and I don't mean some sort of hyper masculine awesome anime style don't gently caress with me, I mean like a coyote with one paw in a snare coiling and yowling as you approach BrotherJayne fucked around with this message at 10:04 on Dec 16, 2020 |
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Dec 16, 2020 09:55
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Yoshi Wins posted:Pete backed off from pitching his own creative ideas for a while after that, but now he's got a boss who clearly doesn't respect creative, and he's back to trying to work his own creative in. Kind of a tangent to this, but something I find interesting is that Pete pays lipservice to emulating his superiors, but it's always empty talk that is never backed up by anything we actually see him doing. He told Don that he considered Roger a mentor which is just utter bullshit, he tells Don he would "follow him into war" because he thinks a guy with Don's military record would want to hear something like that, but Duck is the only one of the two I recall him ever actively insulting in public in front of others. He comes close when talking poo poo about Don sometimes but always couches it more in regards to himself and others. With Duck, he's always showing his disdain to others, but ironically Duck is one of the few higher-ups in Sterling Cooper that not only treats Pete well, but with a measure of respect/admiration... well at least until Pete made that ridiculous suggestion about getting a dog to just live in the office. 
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Dec 16, 2020 11:37
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One of my friends, during a live watch of the series, commented that Duck is the star of his own TV show, that just happened to cross paths with ours. I definitely think this episode highlights that.
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Dec 16, 2020 15:34
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Jerusalem posted:Kind of a tangent to this, but something I find interesting is that Pete pays lipservice to emulating his superiors, but it's always empty talk that is never backed up by anything we actually see him doing. Pete is certainly emulating Don in one specific way in this episode. It's not hard to imagine a younger Don looking into the mirror after his first infidelity and smiling.
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Dec 16, 2020 15:47
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I'm not sure I agree with you there, Klowner. Remember the episode in season 2 where Don stays with Anna Draper? There's a flashback to when Don told her he needed a divorce so he could marry Betty. He's obviously madly in love Betty in the flashback. He's as giddy as a kid on Christmas talking about her. Now, he is a vain and egotistical man, so he probably feels proud on some level of every "conquest", but I think he'd definitely have mixed feelings about crossing that barrier for the first time. I think that flashback with Anna is the happiest Don ever looks in the entire series. I'm not sure he was celebrating his first successful act of infidelity because there's no way it made him feel as good as being with Betty did during their honeymoon phase. But maybe you're right. Perhaps he was faithful when he was madly in love, like he was in his first year of marriage with Megan, and then later, when the shine had worn off, and his career was starting to go extremely well, he decided he was entitled to more, and felt good about being able to go and get it. Pete talks a big game about how he felt during his wedding ceremony, but there's no real sign that he actually LOVES Trudy (although I think this changes over time and there are more signs of him loving her in later seasons--and then more of him treating her badly and taking her for granted, and it kind of goes back and forth). The happiest he seems to be with her in season 1 is when he tells Harry with amazement that dinner will be waiting for him when he gets home.
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Dec 16, 2020 17:11
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Duck's inadequacy comes from the fact that a man in his unit killed fiddy men.
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Dec 16, 2020 17:35
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I was very careful with my phrasing "it's not hard to imagine" because of course we never do see that potentially pivotal moment, the very first time Don cheats on Betty, and what his emotional reaction might have been. (In fact, we see very little of the transition from the wide-eyed young man who excitedly tells Anna about Betty and who cons Roger into giving him a job, and the outwardly-assured dick-swinger who tells clients they either believe in Jesus or they don't and who cheats on his wife.) Anyway I was less trying to make a statement about Don and more trying to draw a parallel between Pete and Don. I think there's more of Don in Pete than Don would care to admit, and this is an episode that subtly calls attention to their similarities. Sure, Don is full of self-loathing now, but there had to have been a point in his past where, like Pete, he made a conscious decision to cheat. And he probably felt good about it at the time if he chose to do it again and again.
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Dec 16, 2020 17:45
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Sure. Pete is kind of the bizarro Don. The way both characters are constructed, it seems like we're meant to constantly compare and contrast them.
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Dec 16, 2020 18:00
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Jerusalem posted:He may be worrying about money for the first time in his life the last couple of years, but if that isn't a sign of a rich kid who grew up with everything provided for. He was just gonna get a dog, bring it to the office and then... just let it roam around? No house training, who would feed the dog, where would it sleep, who would train it to keep it from barking etc. None of those thoughts even crossed his mind. Theranos founder Elizabeth Holmes did exactly this and it went about as well as you outlined, with her personal assistant becoming the dog's de facto caretaker as it randomly pissed and shitted around the office and ran amok during meetings and conference calls. Sometimes truth is more  than fiction.
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Dec 16, 2020 21:04
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McSpanky posted:Theranos founder Elizabeth Holmes did exactly this and it went about as well as you outlined, with her personal assistant becoming the dog's de facto caretaker as it randomly pissed and shitted around the office and ran amok during meetings and conference calls. Sometimes truth is more This is me. We got goldfish for the office and now they are a maintenance nightmare. Especially with Covid and everyone working from home.
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Dec 16, 2020 22:26
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That's hardly a problem, leave them to their own devices for a week and you won't have to worry about them again.
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Dec 16, 2020 22:46
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Duck was similarly enterprising in his approach to the problem of an unwanted dog.
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Dec 16, 2020 23:15
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McSpanky posted:Theranos founder Elizabeth Holmes did exactly this and it went about as well as you outlined, with her personal assistant becoming the dog's de facto caretaker as it randomly pissed and shitted around the office and ran amok during meetings and conference calls. Sometimes truth is more Has anybody made a show or anything about the complete clusterfuck that was Theranos? It seems absolutely ripe for being turned into a television show.
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Dec 17, 2020 02:52
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Jerusalem posted:Has anybody made a show or anything about the complete clusterfuck that was Theranos? It seems absolutely ripe for being turned into a television show. If you haven't read Bad Blood yet, I encourage you to do so.
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Dec 17, 2020 02:58
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Jerusalem posted:Has anybody made a show or anything about the complete clusterfuck that was Theranos? It seems absolutely ripe for being turned into a television show. Beamed posted:If you haven't read Bad Blood yet, I encourage you to do so. Or if you don't have long, there's this Vanity Fair article.
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Dec 17, 2020 03:04
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Fighting Trousers posted:Or if you don't have long, there's this Vanity Fair article. Have Martin Scorcesse direct it. Called it The Wolf in Silicon Valley. Margot Robbie as Holmes and DiCaprio as Balto using the same mocap suit from that Harrison Ford dog film.
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Dec 17, 2020 11:22
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They are making a movie of it, Jennifer Lawrence is playing Holmes.
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Dec 17, 2020 12:01
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Fighting Trousers posted:Or if you don't have long, there's this Vanity Fair article. The book is tremendous and it's a pretty quick read as it doesn't stop topping itself with the insanity. Once of the biggest things about the scandal is how quickly something went from almost insignificant to impossibly massive because of some very dumb decisions made by very powerful people. Safeway got stuck into it hard in a "you won't believe this" way. It was originally supposed to be a small scale thing, no major attention or push, and when he was on an investor call and eating poo poo for the latest quarter, the Safeway CEO randomly threw it out there "we're making a major push into healthcare" and suddenly the small scale trial became a nationwide planned rollout before any results came back. That entire part of the Theranos story was from a panicked CEO trying to deflect away from a decent/not great fiscal year. It's basically the same at every step, some of the earliest investors included a mega-high profile lawyer who could bully the gently caress out of anyone and was happy being paid in company stock almost all the way up to the end.
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Dec 19, 2020 22:47
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I sold equipment to Theranos and it was wild. Like sitting at a table and negotiating with Sunny. My boss was obsessed with meeting Elizabeth Holmes and I was like, "It's a scam, save your time." Still, that commission paid for my wedding. I was selling crap, so game recognizes game I guess.
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Dec 19, 2020 22:55
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Bumping for a new page.
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Dec 20, 2020 17:37
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