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Edge & Christian posted:did you mean to type that into a search engine or...? No just an issue I read. Just imagine what it is about. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Dec 19, 2020 20:02
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Codependent Poster posted:The whole Three Jokers thing doesn't make any sense if you look into it at all. i just finished this after putting it off, and all of this, jesus. this was a hit? when they do the sequel book this year and then inevitably make those an absolute i'm skipping that one! faboks art though, very niiiiiiceeeee
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Dec 20, 2020 00:25
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Mr Hootington posted:No just an issue I read. Just imagine what it is about.
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Dec 20, 2020 00:44
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I'm sure by now Batman straight up intentionally killing someone must have been explored in a "this is still mostly like the normal DC universe" book or two, and I haven't been paying too much attention to DC comics so maybe they did it during the recent reboot spamming, but out of nowhere I suddenly got the very strong feeling that they'll have proper Bruce Wayne Batman directly kill someone in the main DC continuity within the next 10 years and make it a big deal/big event kind of thing. Not crossing that line is a very central aspect of the character, but perhaps in part because they've been so wiling to reboot I feel like another one can't be too far away, and they may as well explore the effects of a decision like that before they do one. Off the top of my head, I think it'd be a very human/believable thing if Bat/Cat finally got married and Bruce was at least a little happy, and then someone killed Catwoman and he kills them to avenge her. I personally think it's a more interesting angle if that person isn't a big deal villain (like Joker or another prominent Rogue) but basically some crook with a gun who got a lucky shot in. Then you get to have Joker's reaction to that happening and the mindgames involved there, along with a "you broke your code for THEM but not me?" angle. Like I said, Batman's been around forever and I'm sure he's crossed that line in all sorts of alternate universe stuff, but I don't think it's happened in the main DCU. Obviously even in the main DCU he's got a massive body count in a "I was involved but I didn't mean to kill them" kind of way. If some of the proper fans know of a time that he's fully killed a dude or gotten so close that he may as well have, I'd be interested to hear what some of those times are.
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Dec 21, 2020 10:38
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Batman straight up killed people in his first appearance. He had a gun for a while early on too. He also straight up shot Darkseid in the face during Final Crisis. Also doesn't give a poo poo when anyone he teams up with kills someone in front of him for more than a single issue. Most in character part of Three Jokers is him caring more about how Jason felt after killing a Joker than caring about Jason killing a Joker.
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Dec 21, 2020 10:47
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The Justice League by Priest from a year or two ago was a great book about Batman killing someone.
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Dec 21, 2020 10:51
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It is less believable batman or his family do not kill.
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Dec 21, 2020 14:56
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I think the opposite. If he killed then he'd literally be what his enemies say he is. The only way the character works is if he doesn't kill. Why would gordon ever work with him?
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Dec 21, 2020 15:22
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Batman and Superman refusing to kill is a vital component to both characters. It's less believable that Batman hasn't rigged up access to the Phantom Zone so he can toss his baddies in there.
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Dec 21, 2020 15:33
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Rhyno posted:Batman and Superman refusing to kill is a vital component to both characters. from a storytelling perspective, Arkham and whatever the current Gotham prison is serve a functionally identical purpose, really. Just a hole to stick a guy into until you need them to escape
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Dec 21, 2020 15:45
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Yes well what I am saying is the PZ is nearly inescapable.
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Dec 21, 2020 15:48
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Batman throwing his baddies into the Phantom Zone is a recipe for disaster. Just go watch The Lego Batman Movie. 
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Dec 21, 2020 16:42
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I like Batman not killing but over the years thanks to Miller's influence the poo poo he does to you is worse than killing you a lot of the time and I hate that too. No crippler Batman. No torturer Batman. Hate that poo poo. Not only cause it sucks that Batman paralyzes muggers and poo poo, but it's even more nonsensical that he doesn't do it to other more dangerous people. If ninjaing a guy into being paralyzed is on the table, why hasn't he done it to the Joker? Batman kind of needs to be the 70s version imho. This is why Morrison's Batman is the only good modern Batman. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.
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Dec 21, 2020 17:50
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I love that bug in arkham asylum where you knock out thugs by punching them in the junk. I love it even more that it not only didn't get patched out but replicated in every other arkham game, basically canonizing it into Batman's arsenal.
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Dec 21, 2020 18:09
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Vince MechMahon posted:Batman kind of needs to be the 70s version imho. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. Agreed. I like Detective Batman a lot better than grim dark world-coming-to-an-end Batman. Vince MechMahon posted:Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. A++ would attend again.
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Dec 21, 2020 18:20
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I wonder if the Joker book will be just the comedy Harley Quinn book, or if it will just a just a book about a serial killer. I do not have high hopes.
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Dec 21, 2020 18:46
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Batman not killing is a good thing. Upping the body count committed by his villains is a bad thing. Every time Joker goes around and kills thousands of people (at least twice a year if not more) and Batman does not kill him just makes Batman look bad. If the Batman didn't kill the Joker and the Joker didn't have a storyline every few months killing thousands of people it would be fine.
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Dec 21, 2020 18:51
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Vince MechMahon posted:I like Batman not killing but over the years thanks to Miller's influence the poo poo he does to you is worse than killing you a lot of the time and I hate that too. No crippler Batman. No torturer Batman. Hate that poo poo. Not only cause it sucks that Batman paralyzes muggers and poo poo, but it's even more nonsensical that he doesn't do it to other more dangerous people. If ninjaing a guy into being paralyzed is on the table, why hasn't he done it to the Joker? Batman kind of needs to be the 70s version imho. This is why Morrison's Batman is the only good modern Batman. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.  I love TDKR but I don't like that the status quo for Batman has started to lean so close to it.
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Dec 21, 2020 18:53
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https://twitter.com/MangaMogura/status/1339232270922756097
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Dec 21, 2020 19:35
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I don't know how to feel about this
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Dec 21, 2020 20:10
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that tweet is the first time I've laughed at anything involving the Joker in like a decade and change
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Dec 21, 2020 20:53
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One thing I now noticed and didn't pick on initially is that the Joker in that pic looks to be pained white on only his face rather than the full body treatment from the acid dip that everyone knows.
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Dec 21, 2020 21:10
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Huh. Huh. Agree, don't know what to think of that. It could be some great comedy, which frankly I feel the Joker has been lacking for a while. I've said it before, they should bring back gangster Joker, and now I have the image of the Joker robbing a bank with a baby in a carrier. "Look, Bats, you try finding a babysitter on short notice!"
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Dec 21, 2020 21:46
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It'll be Gokudou but in Gotham. I would guess that this version would something like Romero+earlier BTAS Jokers but probably with some new wholesale characterization.
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Dec 21, 2020 21:53
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I hope he's full on the worst poo poo about modern Joker. Kills a hundred people in the first panel. But he is also very sincerely and earnestly trying to raise this kid in his spare time.
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Dec 21, 2020 22:00
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Vince MechMahon posted:I hope he's full on the worst poo poo about modern Joker. Kills a hundred people in the first panel. But he is also very sincerely and earnestly trying to raise this kid in his spare time. Hannibal Lector, but he also tells Dad Jokes.
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Dec 21, 2020 22:01
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catlord posted:Huh. Huh. Agree, don't know what to think of that. It could be some great comedy, which frankly I feel the Joker has been lacking for a while. Then he turns to the teller he's holding at gunpoint and says "Some society we live in, am I right?"
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Dec 21, 2020 22:04
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Skwirl posted:Hannibal Lector, but he also tells Dad Jokes. Silent panels of the Joker calmly walking through a grocery store full of corpses, getting to the formula, then being pissed off at himself for killing all the employees because he's not sure what kind he needs to get. "ketchup...catsup..." But it's the Joker.
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Dec 21, 2020 22:04
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Father Wendigo posted:"The crazy thing is that finding a family helped cure my criminal insanity, but now that my wife's in the hospital with Covid I have to rob banks *JUST* to make ends meet with the kid!" This reminds me that the cartoon Harley Quinn's joker having a brief flirtation with being an anti hero because he unironically enjoyed his life with his normal gf and her kid was the most interesting thing done with the character since Lego Batman had him be gay
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Dec 21, 2020 22:10
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Alan Tudyk Joker is the very best version of the character.
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Dec 21, 2020 22:53
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site posted:This reminds me that the cartoon Harley Quinn's joker having a brief flirtation with being an anti hero because he unironically enjoyed his life with his normal gf and her kid was the most interesting thing done with the character since Lego Batman had him be gay I definitely think there might be shades of this as well. But we'll see. It's manga so who knows
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Dec 21, 2020 22:54
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Rhyno posted:Alan Tudyk Joker is the very best version of the character. That's the red hood cartoon right? Did a good job of balancing "zany" and "mass murderer"
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Dec 21, 2020 23:09
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Skwirl posted:That's the red hood cartoon right? Did a good job of balancing "zany" and "mass murderer" No that was Bender. Tudyk voiced the Joker on the Harley cartoon.
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Dec 21, 2020 23:12
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In the immediate wake of CoIE Batman comics did have a much more lax attitude, briefly, towards Batman at least failing to prevent or inadvertently causing people to die. I tend to think of this as a Jim Starlin thing but I may be unfair here-- certainly the most notorious example is the end of "Ten Nights of the Beast" which is sort of just casually violent and fatal more broadly, ie., the KGBeast's colleague Salari kind of just blows himself up because Robin kicks him into a building while he's shooting a bazooka of some kind. Batman #422, the back end of a two-parter immediately afterwards, also ends up with the villain dead, stabbed to death by a woman he's attempting to abduct. #424 hinges on a rapist with diplomatic immunity who Robin ambiguously pushes off a balcony or lets fall off a balcony to his death, and #425 has a pretty brutal fight-scene in a junk-yard in which Batman maneuvers two guys into killing each other with their machine-guns, and ends, again, with Batman not directly killing the antagonist but not doing much to stop him from getting squashed under a pile of wrecked cars. #430 ends with the antagonist being killed by a police sniper-- not really Batman's fault but again, in this fairly brief run most issues end with the bad-guy somewhat ghoulishly killed. So-- I guess the inference to me is that following Crisis and Year One DC was open, at least, to Batman stories in which Batman would be placed in situations where death happened and where his enemies were often killed while hewing to the letter of "Batman doesn't kill." This was backed off on almost immediately after Starlin left with #430, I think, although again I could be quite wrong.
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Dec 21, 2020 23:49
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Ah, the Doctor Who approach to pacifism "It's OK if the hero arranges the deathtrap, as long as the bad guy is technically the one pulling the trigger"
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Dec 21, 2020 23:59
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Joker from the Harley show is good largely thanks to everyone else being extra terrible so that he seems less noteworthy, along with his more personal beef with Harley being the focus of "This is why this guy is an rear end in a top hat" instead of a constantly inflating killcount, or increasingly gruesome murder scenes. Also Tudyk helps. but in more broad strokes Madkal posted:Batman not killing is a good thing. Upping the body count committed by his villains is a bad thing. Every time Joker goes around and kills thousands of people (at least twice a year if not more) and Batman does not kill him just makes Batman look bad. If the Batman didn't kill the Joker and the Joker didn't have a storyline every few months killing thousands of people it would be fine.
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Dec 22, 2020 00:43
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Gaz-L posted:Ah, the Doctor Who approach to pacifism "It's OK if the hero arranges the deathtrap, as long as the bad guy is technically the one pulling the trigger" I've recently starting watching Dr. Who, starting with Nine. I'm two seasons in and every couple episodes I swear I'm turning to the fiancee and going 'I thought the Doctor was supposed to be a pacifist?'
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Dec 22, 2020 00:48
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I feel like "The Joker has a storyline where he kills a thousand people every few months "is more a matter of perception than, like, things that actually happen in the comics. What was the last notable thing Joker story before Joker War?
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Dec 22, 2020 00:53
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OnimaruXLR posted:Joker from the Harley show is good largely thanks to everyone else being extra terrible so that he seems less noteworthy, along with his more personal beef with Harley being the focus of "This is why this guy is an rear end in a top hat" instead of a constantly inflating killcount, or increasingly gruesome murder scenes. Also Tudyk helps. I'm not sure if I'd go that far, the husbando storyline came after he took over gotham and turned it into murderworld
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Dec 22, 2020 01:05
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Blockhouse posted:I feel like "The Joker has a storyline where he kills a thousand people every few months "is more a matter of perception than, like, things that actually happen in the comics. What was the last notable thing Joker story before Joker War? Death of the Family.
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Dec 22, 2020 01:22
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