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Nomyth posted:Crossposting this from the GPU thread, I'm especially interested in the concern about separating a GPU loop from a CPU loop, because I'd prefer to keep rad fan speeds way way down: Separating cooling into more loops will always mean higher fan speeds for the same cooling performance. The hotter loop, whichever it is, will always end up dumping its wattage into less radiator surface area than it would had you combined the two loops, which means that radiator needs more airflow, which means more noise. Separating loops may let you run at lower pump speeds, but pump speed is not a constraint unless you're doing something weird (8 GPUs in series for a compute station, etc). I pump water through GPU, CPU, a questionably useful VRM cooling block and 960mm worth of radiators using a D5 running at 30%. There are no cool performance tricks you can do with the loop layout itself. If you want minimum noise then, as mentioned, increase heat sink/radiator surface area and control fan speed directly from coolant temperature. Using separate loops is 99% aesthetics and offers no practical performance or noise benefits.
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Dec 2, 2020 05:52
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Ah, I misspoke. By passively cooling CPU I mean completely taking the CPU out of the loop altogether and using a (mostly) passive cooler on it, and dedicating all the radiator space in a case to GPU.
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Dec 2, 2020 22:09
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Nomyth posted:Ah, I misspoke. By passively cooling CPU I mean completely taking the CPU out of the loop altogether and using a (mostly) passive cooler on it, and dedicating all the radiator space in a case to GPU. No, we understand. What is your use case where you think your GPU will be so hot as to need an entire case of radiator and your CPU will be so idle a passive system can cool it? edit: And if your CPU is running so cool a passive system can handle it just fine, you may as well leave it in the loop for a cooler CPU, since it won't be having an appreciable effect on coolant temp compared to the GPU, which I can only assume is some shunt modded 600W monstrosity to actually prompt you to think an entire case of radiator is needed for it.
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Dec 2, 2020 23:11
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Nomyth posted:Ah, I misspoke. By passively cooling CPU I mean completely taking the CPU out of the loop altogether and using a (mostly) passive cooler on it, and dedicating all the radiator space in a case to GPU. You could get most of what you want (within reason) out of a 240mm rad for the 3090. Adding the CPU into the loop and maybe a 360mm rad would be kinda worth it, but probably borderline. You really don't need nearly as much surface area what you see out of some of the crazy YT "pro" builds if you just want it to work and aren't out to make either some aesthetic statement or try to get as close to ambient as you possibly can (which is all just dickwaving). I mean you really don't have a whole lot of options here, honestly. A passive or near-passive GPU cooler for the performance you want simply doesn't exist, and if it did it'd be about the size of a mid-tower case except just made out of aluminum fins. Air cooling is going to be too loud. So get a PWM-enabled CLC (at least until NZXT updates the G12 to support Ampere, at which point an AIO isn't a bad ideal) with 240mm or more worth of rads, throw either Arctic's P12 or Noctura A12x25 fans on there at whatever the max RPM is before you can hear them (somewhere between 500-800 RPM, probably). Undervolt the GPU to bring it down to ~300W. As long as the GPU is sitting under 80C while loaded, you're fine. For the CPU, assuming you're going with something reasonable like a 5600X, you could get a Noctura D15 for the lowest noise, or a U12S that's half the price and probably will end up performing the same in practice for you. Again tune the fan curve 'till you cannot hear it. As long as the CPU is staying under 80-85C while loaded, you're fine. Or you could throw the CPU under water, too, for around the same price as the D15. Might want the larger rad at that point if your case fits it. Also make sure your case is decently sized in the first place and still has at least one intake and exhaust fan (use more P12's or Nocturas) that can also be tuned to below your audible threshold. Mesh or "high airflow" cases are not what you want, since those will allow more of the pump / fan noise out and aren't really needed for a CLC plan. Grab some noise-dampening sheets and plaster them to the interior of the case as much as you reasonably can. You also need to seriously consider the PSU you're selecting, as with the above setup it'll likely be the loudest part of your system when not under load. I'm honestly not sure what a good "silent" option is for the ~700W unit you'd be needing. Will it hit 20dB? Probably not. Is your room probably louder than 20dB anyhow? Almost certainly. Also is there a reason you can't turn your computer off / put it to sleep at night? Unless it's loaded 24/7 there's no reason it should be making enough noise to bother you sleeping. DrDork fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Dec 2, 2020 |
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Dec 2, 2020 23:14
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Nomyth posted:Ah, I misspoke. By passively cooling CPU I mean completely taking the CPU out of the loop altogether and using a (mostly) passive cooler on it, and dedicating all the radiator space in a case to GPU. Umm. I think that can work out in specific cases but I wouldn't recommend it in general. First of all, you are not realistically going to passively cool a 9900K or 5600X. You can passively cool maybe 10W-15W with a good heat sink in a cool room, they have a TDP of 95W and 65W respectively. You can run a fairly quiet air cooler if you're not overclocking, but definitely not passive. Second, if your usage is such that CPU is in fact producing 15W under typical loads then that's still mostly insignificant if you add it to your custom loop running a 350W RTX 3090 or whatever. Doing so will also let you run quietly when the CPU is in fact under high load for some reason (you're encoding/decoding things, playing a CPU-intensive game, etc). All that said: sure, having an air cooler is "free" radiator surface area in some sense so if you don't want to or have space for a lot of radiators then it could be an efficient way to get more dissipation in there. It's also cheaper than adding the equivalent CPU block + fittings + radiator. You just pay for that by losing the free load balancing and thermal mass of having coolant. Overall it seems very unlikely to me that you'll find real workloads where heat added from the CPU would add a significant amount of noise to the custom loop fans, but would not add even more noise when run on an air cooler. Maybe if you're using very little radiator space so the additional fin surface area from the CPU cooler is more significant, but in that case you're not going to get good noise levels whatever you do.
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Dec 2, 2020 23:22
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One of the big benefits of water cooling is the thermal mass to prevent your fans from ramping up and down constantly with load. Coolant takes time to heat up, so you can build a smoother, more gradual fan curve that might not even max out if the load ends before the coolant reaches the peak fan target temperature. Xerophyte is right--I'd say the only reason to not include the CPU in your loop is if you don't want to pay for a water block for it and have a spare heatsink and fan laying around to use on it. Seriously, if you have the money and aren't opposed to spending it on the block, just add the CPU to the loop. You'll have a better time than trying to figure out some way to passive cool a modern desktop CPU for no gains, or even a net loss in performance. If you're dead set on staying in this well, at least watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoRp3SI2UKM edit: this too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RYFsb99OwI Warmachine fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Dec 2, 2020 |
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Dec 2, 2020 23:28
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Okay, it looks like then what I really need to do is address the source of my brainworms: what's a good way to prove to myself that I can turn down the fans and pump on what I have in my current system? The problem here is that I ended up putting together a ridiculously obscure Alphacool 280mm AIO monstrosity riding on my 9900K and my motherboard happens to be an equally obscure terrible choice (Supermicro) and I when I built this system spring of 2019 I hadn't really even given much thought at all to noise control because I stopped caring after playing around trying to get the all-core OC stable really, the whole system was a poor choice and I need to find a place to listen to what a properly controlled loop looks/sounds like
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Dec 3, 2020 00:01
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Actually, even better than addressing my brainworms:  are there any suggested watercooled custom job builders that still provide systems out there? I used to enjoy this poo poo several years ago but now i do not
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Dec 3, 2020 00:05
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I think the brainworms here are the idea that you need the machine to run at 20dB. A quiet room is like 40dB, maybe 30 if you really try not to make a sound. Like, do you have a refrigerator? A furnace? Neighbors? Do you live on a street that ever has cars, or in a place where there are birds and windy days?
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Dec 3, 2020 00:26
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I am very confused here. I have an overclocked 9900K (to the limit) and an overclocked 1080ti in a 15L case with a 240 and 120mm radiator setup. It is absolutely silent unless I am thrashing in a game for 10+ minutes. It can be done. I have shared the journey in this thread: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s19/sh/a7c7cc5b-e45d-40c7-8624-f53653094531/91fca24be5007f8dc53fcbe2fa9c53a1 https://www.evernote.com/shard/s19/sh/a8bccd8b-7346-40c1-905c-fb9384bb8a4c/b78e3dcee8db1d870a9a81e5864ee59f It took me a while to tweak my config (Noctua NF-A12x25 everywhere, fan curves, delid, etc).... but I was trying to achieve a silent but overclocked machine. My final statement was: "Core Max of 87C after 560sec of Cinebench R20. Oscillations aren't too bad, temps stay within a boundary of 83-86C all cores loaded @ 4.9" which I find incredible.  [EDIT] forgot to add, I did quite a bit of research on radiators for my setup with cost:performance research... I landed on HWLabs rads for my setup: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s19/sh/60370b27-7c5c-45b2-b09a-b2a86e9abfa3/6395f7ef707c42e7e8ecf9f74a93c108
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Dec 3, 2020 00:58
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Nomyth posted:Okay, it looks like then what I really need to do is address the source of my brainworms: what's a good way to prove to myself that I can turn down the fans and pump on what I have in my current system? The problem here is that I ended up putting together a ridiculously obscure Alphacool 280mm AIO monstrosity riding on my 9900K and my motherboard happens to be an equally obscure terrible choice (Supermicro) and I when I built this system spring of 2019 I hadn't really even given much thought at all to noise control because I stopped caring after playing around trying to get the all-core OC stable Your bios might have something to control fan speeds and set fan curves, but I don't know jack about SM's bios. (I know they do a lot of enterprise boards, and that's the end of it.) Even if your pump is DC, you might still be able to set a lower speed even if that speed is static. You can get away with extremely low pump speeds in small loops like AIOs. My own system runs at the minimum operating speed when not under load, and only ever goes up to ~45% under load, because I don't need 4500 RPM of DDC... ever. And it was similar when I didn't have PWM--set to just above minimum operating speed and forget it. I didn't get any significant issues and had a much quieter pump for the trouble. First step is figuring out how to control your fans and pump speed though. If your board can't do that, slap past you for being a cheap rear end and then use the Christmas bonus to get a real motherboard. Also probably check your power supply. If past-you was buying cheapass supermicro boards with half a bios, god knows what kind of chewing gum and paperclips power supply is hooked to this thing. (A fan controller is not worth it vs. getting a proper motherboard. If your mobo can't give you proper fan control features, there are probably more issues that aren't as obvious that you don't want to deal with. It's like buying a house--the problem you see is probably an indicator of problems you don't.)
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Dec 3, 2020 01:20
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Supermicro boards are higher quality than 99% of all gamer garbage and it saddens me to see them besmirched, but I wouldn't be surprised if the fan speed controls on their enthusiast boards were in fact a bit naff. It's not even remotely their primary focus. I got the impression that their first enthusiast boards were mostly made for home professionals and not so much gamers: their boards were the only ones that included a PCIe switch, but were sort of pointedly neither painted red and black nor named after weapon systems or cool predators.* Their enterprise boards allowed fan speed control through IPMI last I came across one. Presumably it's great if you're setting up a couple hundred rack machines, which is a very different sort of environment from what most gamers and home enthusiasts find themselves in. I assume they do something more accessible for the consumer boards, but they don't seem like a company that would prioritize fan curve GUIs. *Looking at their site I see that they have since fixed the color problem.
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Dec 3, 2020 02:25
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Xerophyte posted:Supermicro boards are higher quality than 99% of all gamer garbage and it saddens me to see them besmirched, but I wouldn't be surprised if the fan speed controls on their enthusiast boards...
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Dec 3, 2020 02:31
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ilkhan posted:Supermicro makes enthusiast boards? Yep, they started offering them a couple of years ago. I considered one when I built my current machine in '18, but I went with an ASUS board with stupid water cooling stuff for my stupid water cooling loop instead. This entire discussion made me curious where they've gone since and they have apparently put more effort in, including their own gaming brand. I imagine the IT guys at work who used to rave over the Supermicro quality are despairing at how far they've fallen.
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Dec 3, 2020 02:45
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Warmachine posted:Your bios might have something to control fan speeds and set fan curves, but I don't know jack about SM's bios. (I know they do a lot of enterprise boards, and that's the end of it.) Even if your pump is DC, you might still be able to set a lower speed even if that speed is static. You can get away with extremely low pump speeds in small loops like AIOs. My own system runs at the minimum operating speed when not under load, and only ever goes up to ~45% under load, because I don't need 4500 RPM of DDC... ever. And it was similar when I didn't have PWM--set to just above minimum operating speed and forget it. I didn't get any significant issues and had a much quieter pump for the trouble. the C9Z390-PGW is far from being a cheapass mobo, it's (was) more of a rather expensive "boutique" one. This is a system in which I decided my main SSD would be a 480GB Intel Optane 3D XPoint drive and also hi there completely overkill Corsair AX1600i PSU made by Plantronics, I know what I'm talking about with regards to part choice. The problem now is that I've become far too lazy to sift through what little documentation there is myself to go through with it all. past me was the opposite of cheap, and was also definitely stupid for thinking my preferences for system use wouldn't change Sidesaddle Cavalry fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Dec 3, 2020 |
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Dec 3, 2020 05:34
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Yeah, all things considered I would not at all be surprised if one or more of the following were true: (1) The AIO has a small air bubble in it (they all do) and it's partially sitting in the pump/block and making excess noise (2) The fans selected for the AIO were made for static pressure with minimal fucks given to noise generation (3) The SM MB fan curves are overly aggressive (they mostly do server boards, after all, where the fan "curve" goes from jet engine idling to jet engine taking off) If you're hearing pump noise, try running the pump uninstalled and slowly rotating it around with the rad held above it and see if that makes any difference. Gentle taps may also help to dislodge any bubbles. After that, as has been said, look into whether the pump is in any way speed adjustable, and if not, whether the motherboard can fake it by treating it like a DC-controlled fan. AIO fans are almost always mediocre at best. Grab either P14's or some Noctura ones to replace them, and again make sure that they're actually being run as slowly as needed. Even for a 9900k, unless you're really overclocking the hell out of it, you should be able to run those fans real slow. No idea what sort of features the MB actually exposes there, but I'll take a contrary position and say that if you otherwise like it then a $50 fan controller is not a terrible idea if their fan control is as "detailed" as it is on some of their server boards ("Slow, Fast, Full"). It'd be cheaper that a board swap and then you can carry it over to a future build if you for some reason need to do so. What case are you using, anyhow?
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Dec 3, 2020 16:23
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ilkhan posted:My loop is temp controlled off the water temp. My normal load is 800rpm on the two front 140s, and the 3 top 120s off. Water temp over 35c (iirc) turns on the top to 800rpm, and they both ramp up as water temp rises. With noctua fans it takes full speed to even notice the fans. Simple and easy. It's (over)sized for cpu+gpu and is only running a 65w 3600x right now. I can run passive, but it gets warmer than I like. Gotta find an RTX3080 and 5800x or 5900x one of these days. Are you using a external fan controller for this? My motherboard doesn't have a 2 pin temp header, so I have a display for it (I haven't installed it yet). Although I may have made a mistake buying the alphacool G1/4 sensor plug, as the sensor is ~2cm which is pretty long. Wish more motherboards came with a header for temp sensors. Anyone have recommended drgb splitters? The motherboard has a header, but I need to connect my reservoir, water block, and case.
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Dec 6, 2020 17:40
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SPACE HOMOS posted:Are you using a external fan controller for this? My motherboard doesn't have a 2 pin temp header, so I have a display for it (I haven't installed it yet). Although I may have made a mistake buying the alphacool G1/4 sensor plug, as the sensor is ~2cm which is pretty long. Wish more motherboards came with a header for temp sensors.
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Dec 6, 2020 18:04
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Nomyth posted:Okay, it looks like then what I really need to do is address the source of my brainworms: what's a good way to prove to myself that I can turn down the fans and pump on what I have in my current system? The problem here is that I ended up putting together a ridiculously obscure Alphacool 280mm AIO monstrosity riding on my 9900K and my motherboard happens to be an equally obscure terrible choice (Supermicro) and I when I built this system spring of 2019 I hadn't really even given much thought at all to noise control because I stopped caring after playing around trying to get the all-core OC stable Get and Acquaero. https://www.aquatuning.us/water-cooling/monitoring/controllers/21577/aquacomputer-aquaero-6-lt-usb-fan-controller You can get one of these to monitor your coolant temperature: https://www.aquatuning.us/water-coo...aero-5/6?c=6605 It comes with several air-temperature probes. Stick one near your air intake, and set up a virtual sensor that take coolant temp minus air temp to give you a coolant/air temperature delta. Set all of your fans/pumps with a set-point controller to automatically maintain whatever target delta you want. I run mine at 6C above air temperature but that's probably aggressive.
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Dec 7, 2020 22:43
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forbidden dialectics posted:Get and Aquaero. Or a Quadro, either way you get to use the Aquasuite software which is top tier.
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Dec 15, 2020 22:40
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Installed a new waterblock on my video card today. Slightly annoyed that the EK block and reservoir leds aren't matching even though they are on the same header with a splitter. First time with a clear block, so its like an ant farm but for air bubbles (until they go away and I top off).  I wish I bought a nicer temp display. For my old machine I bought some barrow fittings to re-do that computers loop. They are the same OD/ID as my bitspower ones but man they are hard to get the tube on. SPACE HOMOS fucked around with this message at 04:28 on Dec 20, 2020 |
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Dec 20, 2020 04:25
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SPACE HOMOS posted:Installed a new waterblock on my video card today. Slightly annoyed that the EK block and reservoir leds aren't matching even though they are on the same header with a splitter. How much trouble was the cooler swap, does that XC3 cooler come off pretty easily? Was it a pain cleaning the thermal putty off the VRMs? Did your XC3 have that huge RGB LED module on the back side, can it be easily disabled or removed? Are you using the EKWB back plate, if so does it come with any thermal pads?
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Dec 20, 2020 15:53
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Indiana_Krom posted:Nice, I'm hoping to one day get a XC3 card and a EKWB block myself (currently using a MSI reference 1080 with a EKWB block on it), I have a few questions on that combo specifically: I have an XC3 with a backplate, so it was roughly 10 screws. They use adhesive thermal pads, so prying it off is a tad nerve wracking. You have to slightly twist to get the cooler off. The leftover thermal pads they use came off fairly easily. Just clean as much of it as you can before using isopropyl alcohol to clean it as it gets muddy if you don't. There is a led pad (or some thing stuck to the back off the pcb) that I left on, but I turned the leds off with EVGA's precision software. I have the EKWB backplate and it comes with a lot of thermal pads in 1mm - 2mm thickness. I used an exacto knife to cut them down to the right sizes. They don't include instructions in their package and the manual doesn't say this, but for the pads the clear side is sticky. Peel the clear side first, stick it down, then peel the blue side. The only thing about the EKWB parts I have that I am not a fan of so far is the ports for fittings are plexi. So just be mindful to hand tighten them down as not to crack the material. In retrospect I wish I ordered the rgb cpu block to even out the lighting in the case. After putting on the block on my gpu I get a lot of coil whine, but maybe I always had it and didn't hear it with the fans? SPACE HOMOS fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Dec 20, 2020 |
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Dec 20, 2020 17:19
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SPACE HOMOS posted:They use adhesive thermal pads, so prying it off is a tad nerve wracking. Quick tip for dealing with these (or on anything with adhesive pads) is to use dental floss to cut between the chip and the heatsink. A gentle sawing motion with the floss will usually rip right through the pad without nearly as much worry about damaging the chip in the process.
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Dec 20, 2020 18:59
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SPACE HOMOS posted:I have an XC3 with a backplate, so it was roughly 10 screws. They use adhesive thermal pads, so prying it off is a tad nerve wracking. You have to slightly twist to get the cooler off. Okay, thanks, I'll keep that in mind if/when I can ever get a 3080 ish XC3 card.
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Dec 20, 2020 19:38
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How much air space do I really need to leave in the reservoir of a hard-line build? Some say none, others say 2cm. Some say leaving space creates more pressure, some say leaving less creates more pressure. My system is leak testing right now (so far, so good!) and I have about 1cm air at the top of the Corsair XD5 res. Save me, goons!
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Dec 21, 2020 21:17
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As long as the pump intake is below the waterline at all times I don't think it really matters.
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Dec 21, 2020 23:46
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ilkhan posted:As long as the pump intake is below the waterline at all times I don't think it really matters. This seems to be basically correct. In that, in a sealed system, neither air nor water are compressible to any meaningful extent here, I would be surprised if a small amount of air (or lack thereof) chilling out in the res impacted anything. Getting absolutely all the air out is usually a fool's errand, anyhow. If it doesn't leak, and there aren't any air bubbles in the pump unit, you should be fine.
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Dec 22, 2020 01:37
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Since air is compressible and water is not, having less air would increase pressure, assuming your pump was able to provide a head pressure of anything meaningful Since this isn't the case fill with water until there's enough to keep the pump wet and to a level your happy with
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Dec 23, 2020 00:53
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Cloner of the Elks posted:How much air space do I really need to leave in the reservoir of a hard-line build? Some say none, others say 2cm. Some say leaving space creates more pressure, some say leaving less creates more pressure. My system is leak testing right now (so far, so good!) and I have about 1cm air at the top of the Corsair XD5 res. The pump creates the pressure and applies it to the liquid, not the other way around.
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Dec 23, 2020 03:30
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Scarecow posted:Since air is compressible and water is not, having less air would increase pressure, assuming your pump was able to provide a head pressure of anything meaningful I was under the impression that air is effectively incompressible until you get it moving reasonably quick (100m/s IIRC?), so from that perspective air vs water shouldn't matter much. Water expands faster with temp than air from what I remember, but the difference between 1cm or 2cm or whatever of air vs the total volume of the water should mean that that's pretty irrelevant, too, assuming the system is air-tight. If internal pressure was actually a normal concern, the correct solution is an expansion chamber to allow for pressure relief/regulation. You don't see these in CLC loops because they're unnecessary, as the pressures simply aren't that high unless you're doing some real weird stuff. Deuce posted:The pump creates the pressure and applies it to the liquid, not the other way around. Pretty sure he means more pressure exerted on the fittings and whatnot, not that the pump creates more/less pressure.
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Dec 23, 2020 03:40
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Air is very compressible example a scuba tank
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Dec 23, 2020 04:10
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Scarecow posted:Air is very compressible example a scuba tank Sure, with a loooot of effort. A SCUBA air compressor does like 3-5000+ PSI. Your CLC loop will start leaking at like...20-30 PSI, and even the pumps themselves normally aren't specced for over 100 PSI. Totally different categories there. You're not producing meaningful compression with a water cooling pump.
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Dec 23, 2020 05:31
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Water will expand with heat (very minor). Should always have some amount of allowance for thermal expansion in a closed system (read: compressible air). Its why your car has a radiator pressure cap to an expansion/overflow container that it can also pull back into the system from when it cools back down. As long as your pump inlet has a level at all times, wouldnt worry too much about what a “proper” level is. It wont have any effect on the hydrodynamics of the system by taking all the air out or any other nonsense.
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Dec 23, 2020 05:36
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DrDork posted:Sure, with a loooot of effort. A SCUBA air compressor does like 3-5000+ PSI. Your CLC loop will start leaking at like...20-30 PSI, and even the pumps themselves normally aren't specced for over 100 PSI. Totally different categories there. You're not producing meaningful compression with a water cooling pump. Its still valid, take the same volume of water as what's been put in a CLCand see how far you can compress that volume down vs if it was just full of air Air compresses more then water as its gas vs liquid and having a tiny bit of air or 3cm of air in your res makes no difference besides aesthetics so long as your pump stays wet
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Dec 23, 2020 06:07
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Well now I'm curious. My res is filled to the exact top with water. Should I take a tiny bit out? It runs fine and temps are good
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Dec 23, 2020 09:17
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The theory is that as water heat it expands. If there's no air at all in the system, this will stress fittings and other potential leak points in the system. Having a little bit of air at the top of the reservoir allows the air to compress and relieve that stress. This is why you have an expansion tank in water heating systems and as nollij says the radiator of your car has a relief valve.
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Dec 23, 2020 09:43
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Thanks for the answers! I think I'm this case I'll leave a cm or two from the top as a precaution. I'll get a pic up soon of my first ever attempt
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Dec 23, 2020 10:04
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Going from room temperature to 40-45c is a un remarkable temperature difference in terms of pressure change inside your res, a car radiator is run at higher then atmospheric pressure becuase it increases the thermal efficiency of the engine itself. Having a tiny bubble of air or a large air pocket makes zero difference
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Dec 23, 2020 10:19
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Endymion FRS MK1 posted:Well now I'm curious. My res is filled to the exact top with water. Should I take a tiny bit out? It runs fine and temps are good DrDork posted:I was under the impression that air is effectively incompressible until you get it moving reasonably quick (100m/s IIRC?) Liquids on the other hand are not easily compressible, this is why heavy equipment uses hydraulics instead of pneumatics. This is also why when we talk about PSI as it relates to gasses and liquids, we are generally referring to how compressed a gas is, while for a liquid we are talking about how pressurized it is. Fun stuff you can look up some time about how liquids behave differently than gasses, look up "pipe slamming" sometime, you will never think about flowing water the same again.
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Dec 23, 2020 13:40
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