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Car Hater posted:It's physics, not econ. Open systems must grow in order to maintain themselves. yes, earth needs sunlight, humans needs air, water, and food earth is not dying because it isn't expanding, open systems need energy input and we know next to nothing about such systems because non-equilibrium thermodynamics is a young field there are no closed systems in nature. our assumption that the universe is a closed system is well motivated but could easily be hilariously wrong. Hodgepodge has issued a correction as of 19:42 on Dec 25, 2020 |
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Dec 25, 2020 19:39
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Xaris posted:because it’s a distribution problem and we need to keep Phoenix alive. people should never leave their area, we can keep them there. plenty of water in the Great Lakes. pump away But that requires infrastructure to be built. How will anyone in power be willing to sign off on that much of an infrastructure buildout?
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Dec 25, 2020 19:42
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Rutibex posted:why would you pump the water down to some desert. it makes more sense to have all the people come live next to the great lakes in some kind of mega-city sounds like someone hates freedom and doesn't want lush green golf courses in a 125 degree hellzone that melts people and cars to the streets
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Dec 25, 2020 19:42
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maximizing energy consumption isn’t a requirement of physics it’s just called being fat
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Dec 25, 2020 19:43
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Orvin posted:But that requires infrastructure to be built. How will anyone in power be willing to sign off on that much of an infrastructure buildout? privatize the infrastructure but have the public pay for it duh
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Dec 25, 2020 19:44
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Car Hater posted:It's physics, not econ. Open systems must grow in order to maintain themselves. You're trying to get out of doing the dishes with the concept of entropy.
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Dec 25, 2020 19:50
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Trabisnikof posted:maximizing energy consumption isn’t a requirement of physics it’s just called being fat attempting to maximize my growth and now I have every type of cancer
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Dec 25, 2020 19:52
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Guys no, civilization is the open system, it must to increase energy throughput in order to maintain itself, I'm trying to get out of dishes existing, trust me I know I'm crazy.
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Dec 25, 2020 19:53
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Weather chat: Normally in Calgary in December, it's too cold for precipitation. This year we've had 70 centimetres of snow over the past five days.uncop posted:I think most of the horror about collapse is due to this boomer-influenced mindset that one's life should be planned long term and follow some kind of happy upward trend and end with a nice, stable family. And that the purpose of a parent is to secure that type of future for their offspring as well. That's the loss that young people seem to be grieving or deluding themselves about. The cure is to not get so attached to imaginary futures, stop obsessing about instability, and appreciate the moment. Living prepared to die, for your children to die etc. isn't alien at all to human existence. Due to capitalism, we have an instinct to associate ruin with the much worse fate of being cast out of society and left to fend for ourselves however we can, but when everyone's getting ruined at the same time, what's going to happen is the opposite: people stick close together for security. This is an extremely good post and I appreciate it. Chamale has issued a correction as of 20:01 on Dec 25, 2020 |
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Dec 25, 2020 19:56
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Rectal Death Adept posted:sounds like someone hates freedom and doesn't want lush green golf courses in a 125 degree hellzone that melts people and cars to the streets not very woke of u to imply people shouldn't be living in the desert and being kicked out of their houses just because it's no longer habitable and also no food grows within 750 miles and required 24/7 ac to not die. we can send plenty of food and water down there to keep golf courses alive powered by lots of nuclear plants. its just unequal distribution
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Dec 25, 2020 22:01
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It's true that natural tendencies are unavoidable. It's untrue that it has anything to do with a human mode production, either capitalism or communism. Capitalism is a praxis which is just as much doing a natural thing as it is doing an unnatural thing (because it is natural for humans to move against their tendencies when it is advantageous). That is, the humans that maintain the capitalist structure understand, or can understand, that they are perpetuating a contradiction. The tendency of capital to accumulate is well understood by Marxists and its occurrence in nature, as such (to a degree which I personally don't know), simply informs what one system does (allow the tendency to survive and take its natural course - societal inertia is just as natural as anything else; class society having developed, its perpetuation is only limited by its natural limitations) vs what another system does (acknowledge and remediate the tendency, as is natural to humans, and allow the consequences of doing so to develop naturally).
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Dec 25, 2020 23:49
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https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/underwater-meadows-seagrass-could-be-ideal-carbon-sinks-180970686/ yet another insane bio-engineering project to save us from ourselves one of the opening lines in the article is blowing off trees as carbon sinks because they get turned into firewood
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Dec 26, 2020 00:26
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Dongicus posted:Hey man, It's Christmas. gently caress Christmas. MightyBigMinus posted:one of the most irritatingly dumb big-brianed-leftist things on this forum is the belief that economic growth being modeled off of natural growth is somehow "capitalist propaganda" what does this even mean? there's nothing even remotely 'natural' about capitalism - previous social orders were had cultural and technical limitations to accumulative expansion, and also were not 'natural'. The narratives that capitalism is 'natural' isn't propaganda - it's ideology. Even this concept of 'nature' or 'naturalness' is a systematically generated illusion.
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Dec 26, 2020 00:29
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Minrad posted:https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/underwater-meadows-seagrass-could-be-ideal-carbon-sinks-180970686/ haven't you been keeping track of what we're doing to forests? trees as carbon sinks was never an option that said with oceans warming as they are seagrass isn't gonna work too well either
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Dec 26, 2020 00:33
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Complications posted:haven't you been keeping track of what we're doing to forests? yeah, i'm just lmao and mildly crack pinging at the idea of trees naturally becoming firewood, as if forests didn't exist on this planet until we came along
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Dec 26, 2020 00:36
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alien uncovering fossilized home full of christmas decorations "it appears they were building these fake plastic trees as some kind of a religious ceremony as they destroyed their world, perhaps thinking that the fake trees would bring back real ones"
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Dec 26, 2020 00:37
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even darwinism, obviously a solid scientific development that's beyond having merely proven its value, was formulated and is still interpreted in very ideological terms, ie with a focus on competition. i once blew a  redditors mind by pointing out that communication is maybe the most important advantage an organism can possess. they thought biologists didn't consider communication important, a position i had previously thought to be so far gone that i thought it only existed as a strawman in my own mind. (they didn't double down at all so I suspect youth was a factor).and this has been explicitly ideological in other ways besides lysenkoism. the full title of kropotkins now beloved of goons book was Mutual Aid: A Factor of Evolution (1902), and it is considered an important work in directing attention towards cooperative strategies in nature and still consistent with our present understanding of evolution mutualism and even altruism are now well understood as indispensable to our understanding of natural behaviour Hodgepodge has issued a correction as of 01:39 on Dec 26, 2020 |
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Dec 26, 2020 01:34
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splifyphus posted:gently caress Christmas.
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Dec 26, 2020 02:26
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Minrad posted:alien uncovering fossilized home full of christmas decorations Her green plastic watering can For her fake Chinese rubber plant In the fake plastic earth
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Dec 26, 2020 04:34
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Even a steady state economy must continually grow to counter the effects of non-renewable resource depletion.
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Dec 26, 2020 07:20
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uncop posted:I think most of the horror about collapse is due to this boomer-influenced mindset that one's life should be planned long term and follow some kind of happy upward trend and end with a nice, stable family. And that the purpose of a parent is to secure that type of future for their offspring as well. That's the loss that young people seem to be grieving or deluding themselves about. The cure is to not get so attached to imaginary futures, stop obsessing about instability, and appreciate the moment. Living prepared to die, for your children to die etc. isn't alien at all to human existence. Due to capitalism, we have an instinct to associate ruin with the much worse fate of being cast out of society and left to fend for ourselves however we can, but when everyone's getting ruined at the same time, what's going to happen is the opposite: people stick close together for security. What you're saying here is okay, but I do take pretty serious issue with one thing: quote:Due to capitalism, we have an instinct to associate ruin with the much worse fate of being cast out of society and left to fend for ourselves however we can, but when everyone's getting ruined at the same time, what's going to happen is the opposite: people stick close together for security. The problem is that it's extremely unlikely that anyone here will live to see any kind of wide-scale collapse. And by "collapse," I mean experiencing something where you're somewhat permanently cut off from any strong form of non-local authority. The reason we're hosed in the first place is that people with wealth and power are unwilling to give up even an ounce of it for the greater good, and that means we're going to ride the current order of things until everything collapses violently or we reach some kind of steady-state of misery. The future for most people in this thread is probably going to look just like today, but you're going to be poorer and more miserable. The same constraints are going to exist. Everyone won't get ruined at the same time and you'll face that same level of alienation because that's how we've built our society, and it all falls apart once that changes. The current situation is a loving great example. We're in the midst of a mass unemployment, poverty, eviction, and homelessness crisis. It doesn't matter. People are barely noticing when these things affect their neighbors, let alone people they don't know. It's already becoming drastically harder for people to support large families. I don't see how that's likely to change in the future.
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Dec 26, 2020 08:01
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Rutibex posted:why would you pump the water down to some desert. it makes more sense to have all the people come live next to the great lakes in some kind of mega-city what kind of mega-city?
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Dec 26, 2020 08:17
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Just look at how unhinged people are now amidst minor inconveniences. People have been beaten and killed for telling people to wear masks. I think the wide-scale collapse you think none of us will see are coming sooner than any of us would prefer.
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Dec 26, 2020 08:18
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i'm currently renting in tucson and strongly considering moving to the upper peninsula of michigan (i'm fortunate to finally have found a remote position). is this a terrible idea?
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Dec 26, 2020 08:52
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Cup Runneth Over posted:what kind of mega-city? soviet microdistricts covering several hundred square miles with a sprinkling of industrial areas
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Dec 26, 2020 08:53
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Sing Along posted:i'm currently renting in tucson and strongly considering moving to the upper peninsula of michigan (i'm fortunate to finally have found a remote position). is this a terrible idea? Depends. Are you afraid of moose or snow?
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Dec 26, 2020 09:02
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Sing Along posted:i'm currently renting in tucson and strongly considering moving to the upper peninsula of michigan (i'm fortunate to finally have found a remote position). is this a terrible idea? the up rules. do it. i suspect the broadband is not the best in a lot of areas but if you are closeby to houghton/hancock or marquette you should be able to get a good enough connection for remote work.
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Dec 26, 2020 09:03
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Sing Along posted:i'm currently renting in tucson and strongly considering moving to the upper peninsula of michigan (i'm fortunate to finally have found a remote position). is this a terrible idea? sounds like a good idea OP if only because arizona is super hosed sometime here in the not too distant future. tho tucson is literally the only 'good' part of arizona.
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Dec 26, 2020 09:04
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Sing Along posted:i'm currently renting in tucson and strongly considering moving to the upper peninsula of michigan (i'm fortunate to finally have found a remote position). is this a terrible idea? michigan is many things, but a place where you are at risk of dying due to a lethal wet-bulb temperature it is not
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Dec 26, 2020 09:06
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Hodgepodge posted:michigan is many things, but a place where you are at risk of dying due to a lethal wet-bulb temperature it is not lol not for long. Detroit, for example, will see at least 2 days with off the charts heat index a year by the end of the century. And spend 20+ with heat index above 105 https://ucsusa.org/resources/killer-heat-interactive-tool?location=detroit--mi&heat=off-charts https://ucsusa.maps.arcgis.com/apps/MapSeries/index.html?appid=e4e9082a1ec343c794d27f3e12dd006d (UP does fair better)
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Dec 26, 2020 09:13
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Sing Along posted:i'm currently renting in tucson and strongly considering moving to the upper peninsula of michigan (i'm fortunate to finally have found a remote position). is this a terrible idea? My issue with that is the unpredictability of climate change. It makes sense to move further north, away from the expanding tropical zones, and closer to the poles. Also to higher elevations to get away from rising waters. However, As we continue to savagely own ourselves and see more ownage-over-time we are learning how much more complicated than just warming climate change is. Weird poo poo where the artic is really hot and yet Japan is cold enough to shatter steel. Polar vortexes and triple hurricanes. The jet stream breaks and gives the eastern seaboard a 100 degree spring. So on paper it sounds like a good spot. Near fresh water with fertile land. As the southwest becomes uninhabitable and every growzone flips hotter (Ohio is GA -> GA is Florida -> Florida is Central America) Michigan would go from being super low to mid-range. The problem is for all we know we are going to get new poo poo like Ultra Winter where all vegetation is shocked to death in a single season that could be 12 months long. That or Ultra Summer where it's 30 degrees hotter than it has ever been for six straight months and either one of those or the combination of the two start to drastically gently caress up the local ecosystems. Definitely a way better choice than Arizona, which is a monument to mankind's hubris right now. Rectal Death Adept has issued a correction as of 09:19 on Dec 26, 2020 |
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Dec 26, 2020 09:17
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I'm thinking of Marquette specifically, and they seem to have sufficient ISPs. I worked at remote mining sites in alaska for a bit so I'm not too concerned about moose/snow/bears and after all of this talk of the great lakes region it seems like a nice place to just go and worry less. it was loving 90+ degrees here in tucson well into December this year and it just sets me tremendously on edge
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Dec 26, 2020 09:20
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Xaris posted:sounds like a good idea OP i've lived here for basically 25 years and the california influx is becoming a massive problem. the cost of living is getting way too high for how lovely tucson is, even if tucson being lovely is something you appreciate
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Dec 26, 2020 09:23
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Sing Along posted:soviet microdistricts covering several hundred square miles with a sprinkling of industrial areas do you have any illustrations to accompany this concept?
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Dec 26, 2020 09:36
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maybe some YouTube videos??
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Dec 26, 2020 09:46
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Cup Runneth Over posted:what kind of mega-city? domes
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Dec 26, 2020 09:56
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Cup Runneth Over posted:maybe some YouTube videos?? are you requesting The Video?
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Dec 26, 2020 10:05
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Accretionist I am teeing it up for you just loving post it already
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Dec 26, 2020 10:08
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Trabisnikof posted:lol not for long. Detroit, for example, will see at least 2 days with off the charts heat index a year by the end of the century. And spend 20+ with heat index above 105 this is excellent news... for the great ant empire 
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Dec 26, 2020 10:13
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Cup Runneth Over posted:Accretionist I am teeing it up for you just loving post it already Accretionist posted:Also, microdistricts:
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Dec 26, 2020 11:34
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