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RBX, constantly moving goalposts can be tiring, want to take a break?
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Jan 4, 2021 15:53
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McCloud posted:Explosives, rockets, toxins, things that scramble your brain, machine guns mounted on a fleet of bat vehicles, all that's ok but don't you DARE use a gun, Batman! Well if they're on the car lmao
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Jan 4, 2021 16:05
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Equeen posted:RBX, constantly moving goalposts can be tiring, want to take a break? It's okay. All the real fans are just out of frame helping them out.
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Jan 4, 2021 16:07
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Hodgepodge posted:Poor RBX. They're probably trying to troll and I'm all like "let me get my lecture notes on this very serious subject... ah here, under 'costumes, bat'" FWIW I don't think he was here to troll, I think what he wrote was in good faith, but like other have said there's a dissonance there, ie MCU didn't change the characters, except when it did, but then it was good! The issue here is that he's conflating likeable characters with good writing. The MCU heroes have had all their edges sanded down so they're all inoffensive funny quipsters, just with slightly different flavors, but this also renders them as perfectly inoffensive heroes that you could totally have a schwarma with, not like that dour angry Superman who's always moping, and this is then confused with them being good characters, because they're comfortable. Edit: Oh my god that post he made is all over the place Comic accuracy good! But Green lantern (the most comic accurate one in DCs stable) bad! Rotten tomatoes can't be used to gauge quality! But people hated these films or we'd have more of them! Aquaman good! But the hero is boring! Batman in BvS was bad because he was not comic accurate and too violent! But The Batman will be good because Batman will be violent! McCloud fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Jan 4, 2021 |
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Jan 4, 2021 16:09
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I've mentioned this before, but my mom is pretty much "that was ok" to "whatever" on comic book films (though generally likes Marvel), but was suuuuuuper pissed off by the Aquaman film. As it turns out she read and loved Aquaman comics as a child and it wasn't her Aquaman lmao. "He's supposed to be blonde!"
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Jan 4, 2021 16:21
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I think I get it now: the MCU's changes are for the better because they all eventually become RDJ's lovable Iron Man. So Snyder's ultimate sin is egregiously making DC's billionaire tech genius & philanthropist Lex Luthor Jr. repulsive (I think my favorite characterization of Lex Jr. is how uncomfortable he gets when the senator grabs his hand, but he revels in getting weirdly intimate with the jolly rancher politician and in getting all handsy with Lois). On that note, we've talked a lot about unfaithful characters, but what about anything else? I can't think of many filmmakers who embrace comic book imagery as much as Snyder does. KVeezy3 fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Jan 4, 2021 |
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Jan 4, 2021 16:30
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Except you couldn't have a Schwarma with Iron Man or Thor. Iron Man's whole thing is that he is a dick to people, excepting some little kids and, like, three employees. And interacting with Thor has a 50/50 chance of him drinking you under the table in a friendly contest or smiting you with lightning, what with him being a god.RBA Starblade posted:I've mentioned this before, but my mom is pretty much "that was ok" to "whatever" on comic book films (though generally likes Marvel), but was suuuuuuper pissed off by the Aquaman film. As it turns out she read and loved Aquaman comics as a child and it wasn't her Aquaman lmao. "He's supposed to be blonde!" I'm honestly surprised there wasn't more and worse of that. But that would require anybody to give a poo poo about Aquaman lol. I'm sorry to tell you RBA, your mother is unique.
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Jan 4, 2021 16:34
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I just can't imagine not liking Jason Momoa, personally, but the hair color thing cracks me up every time
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Jan 4, 2021 16:40
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I remember when the Conan remake came out and a bunch of middle-aged Dungeons & Dragons bloggers were making GBS threads themselves with rage because Jason Momoa doesn't have blue eyes.
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Jan 4, 2021 16:42
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McSpanky posted:His visuals are too heavyhanded and also just meaningless spectacle. He has nothing to say and is too slavish to source material, but also changes things too much and can't make faithful adaptations. He's a vapid jockbro idiot who weaves fascist randian objectivist messages into every film. The Man of Steel one is kind of hilarious to me because of all the complaints I read online about the film from people who hate it "It devolves into generic blockbuster territory" is definitely not one of them.
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Jan 4, 2021 16:52
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:He does: the black priest with the crutch, who fed his leg to the zombies, is a direct reference to Babalu Aye (who is typically depicted walking with a crutch, while dogs lick the sores on his legs). Hahaha. Guess an overdue rewatch is in order. Being lame and accompanied by dogs are also traits of Papa Legba in Vodou. His identification with St Lazarus (Christianity's second most famous zombie!) might be relevant here? Macumba started as a negative umbrella term for any practice seen as "black magic", and Trinidad has it's own distinct tradition(s) with it's own names (Trinidad Orisha, Shango Orisha, and the more Christian Spiritual Baptist) so guessing Peter was not too close to his grandfather. Thanks.
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Jan 4, 2021 16:53
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I admittedly haven't read any Batman comics in awhile but a Batman who continues to beat an already unconscious thug until he's sweating and panting is not what I remember from them*. What I remember from the ones I used to read was the kind of James Bond slickness where he was always cool and in control and only did the minimum amount of violence to make poo poo look effortless, which is pretty blatantly what we got from the Nolan trilogy. Again, the reason people are misunderstanding is because there's arbitrary lines drawn all over the place and it's not clear what is being argued. The fans want something that "somewhat resemble the comics just once" but the areas where Marvel differs is fine because it's better, the areas where DC differs is bad poo poo, even the areas where DC is the same is also mostly bad, and it should all just be self-evident to everyone what is and isn't good. Except people in here like a bunch of the DC movies so a starting line of "everyone agrees they're bad, and the people who pretend not to are just being contradictory" isn't going to work here because people are going to ask annoying questions like "what the heck do you mean" or "no seriously, what are you even talking about". *for the record I am really looking forward to The Batman because it looks really cool and I don't mind that it's a got a more brutal Batman than I'm used to from the comics
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Jan 4, 2021 17:03
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I have a friend at work who hates Snyder’s version of Batman, and thinks Nolan’s was super real and serious, and completely balked at the Pattinson Batman. “He’s wearing mascara” he whined, even after I pulled up the disappearing mascara clip from Batman Returns.
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Jan 4, 2021 17:16
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RBX posted:Number one they're more faithful COMPARED TO WHAT MOVIES DC WAS PUTTING OUT. That's the conversation were having. Stop twisting words. No they didn't just make the comics into a film because that's not possible, duh. But OVERWHELMINGLY people agree whatever DC was doing is not what they wanted. This post is incomprehensible. In your first paragraph you (falsely) claim that Marvel is more faithful, despite many examples to the contrary. But then in the second paragraph you say you don’t care how faithful Green Lantern was. Then you say Batfleck was a faithful adaptation of DKR batman, but you hate that comic so it’s not good for it to be faithful. But you also want a Batman who is brutal and has issues?
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Jan 4, 2021 17:17
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Guy A. Person posted:I admittedly haven't read any Batman comics in awhile but a Batman who continues to beat an already unconscious thug until he's sweating and panting is not what I remember from them*. What I remember from the ones I used to read was the kind of James Bond slickness where he was always cool and in control and only did the minimum amount of violence to make poo poo look effortless, which is pretty blatantly what we got from the Nolan trilogy. Well that's the thing, when we say "batman from the comics" the natural question is "Which comics?". He's gone through phases where he was more of a kung fu freelance detective to one where he was a xenophobic superviolent asshat, to the recent incarnation where he's a supergenius who has 25 plans on taking down the justice league and deals with multiversal crisis every other week, and all of these incarnations have proverbial blood on their hands To quote myself: McCloud posted:I was gonna post this yesterday, but then my life exploded, so this is a bit too late, but here it is anyways, an incomplete history of batman directly or indirectly killing people in comics, post crisis (as far as I can tell)
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Jan 4, 2021 17:17
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Who even cares how accurate an adaptation of something is? It’s a new interpretation, show me something new. If it’s bad, then say why it is bad. Maybe you can use the original work as a lens for what/how/why something is lovely, but simply damning it for being “different” is beyond pointless. E: not directed at McCloud
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Jan 4, 2021 17:34
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ruddiger posted:I have a friend at work who hates Snyder’s version of Batman, and thinks Nolan’s was super real and serious, and completely balked at the Pattinson Batman. “He’s wearing mascara” he whined, even after
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Jan 4, 2021 17:53
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Guy A. Person posted:I admittedly haven't read any Batman comics in awhile but a Batman who continues to beat an already unconscious thug until he's sweating and panting is not what I remember from them*. You want Night of the Stalker, Detective Comics Vol. 1, #439, 1974. Text narration page 5 posted:... the steel hand of justice to clamp tight -- the iron fist of vengeance to strike hard ... without mercy ... to strike again and again -- and pull back yet once more -- Until the sudden wail of tortured tires rips at the red film of fury clouding this avengers eyes! Making him aware that the one he holds no longer moves ... and the car carrying the others he seeks ... does! (You'll find an image/the whole thing online I'm sure but I'm not going to waste time working out how to post an image here th'now  )Still a favourite of mine, The Batman is a silent, implacable beast, though he does stop short of killing in it (by editorial dictat iirc the writer wanted him to). e:clarity EmptyVessel fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Jan 4, 2021 |
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Jan 4, 2021 17:54
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I'm reading RBX's posts right now and basically he's a dude who wants funman punchems no-frills power fantasies. Nothing wrong with that but you ain't gonna get it from Snyder, friend.
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Jan 4, 2021 18:36
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It's simple, people want grounded, down to earth stories that are completely off the wall and swarming with magic robots. And they win things for watching.
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Jan 4, 2021 18:40
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McCloud posted:Well that's the thing, when we say "batman from the comics" the natural question is "Which comics?". He's gone through phases where he was more of a kung fu freelance detective to one where he was a xenophobic superviolent asshat, to the recent incarnation where he's a supergenius who has 25 plans on taking down the justice league and deals with multiversal crisis every other week, and all of these incarnations have proverbial blood on their hands Oh absolutely, and it's what's so wild. My knowledge and experience of Batman-in-the-comics spans about 2 full decades but even as of now is close to a decade out of date so my knowledge is marginal at best to say nothing of the general movie going audience which has considerably less than that EmptyVessel posted:You want Night of the Stalker, Detective Comics Vol. 1, #439, 1974. This is loving great, thanks
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Jan 4, 2021 19:01
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EmptyVessel posted:Being lame and accompanied by dogs are also traits of Papa Legba in Vodou. His identification with St Lazarus (Christianity's second most famous zombie!) might be relevant here? Both Babalu Aye and Papa are syncretized with St. Lazarus, so there is a connection. However, Papa is associated with many saints (usually Peter) while Babalu Aye is specifically just Lazarus. The main difference is that Papa Legba walks with a cane because he's an old man, while Babalu Aye is specifically crippled by disease. That's why the character in the film reads as a Babalu Aye reference: he's the god of health and plagues. It should also be noted that there are two Lazaruses in the bible, and Babalu Aye is associated with the first. This particular Lazarus is famous for not returning from the dead; he just suffers in illness and poverty at the gates of a rich man's luxurious home, then dies. Then Jesus is like "why don't you help these people you dumb rear end holes."
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Jan 4, 2021 19:03
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Snyder will forever remain a hack until he faithfully adapts the true, canonical version of the character: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzwDgz053PI
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Jan 4, 2021 19:05
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RBX posted:If people like Man of Steel and BVS so much then we'd still be getting more of those wouldnt we? But we're not. It's dead. They failed no matter how much you try to fight it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIOU_k4mwDw
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Jan 4, 2021 19:08
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It's a funny quote because Hollywood is notoriously bad at actually giving people what they want! If the people themselves even know what they want!
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Jan 4, 2021 19:11
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RBX posted:Number one they're more faithful COMPARED TO WHAT MOVIES DC WAS PUTTING OUT. That's the conversation were having. Stop twisting words. No they didn't just make the comics into a film because that's not possible, duh. But OVERWHELMINGLY people agree whatever DC was doing is not what they wanted. It's becoming increasingly clear that "Snyder's films are not faithful to the comics" actually means "Snyder's films are not faithful to the DC Animated Universe" and mostly the early part of it at that with Batman: The Animated Series and Superman:The Animated Series. Because the criticism you hear online against Synder's DC superhero movies does not make any sense unless you considered these two animated kids shows to be the correct interpretations of Batman and Superman. Cause this criticism does not make sense if you focus more on the Batman and Superman comics.
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Jan 4, 2021 19:13
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I do wish the Spider-Man movies were more like the absolutely buckwild 90s animated series though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VJEx-ohgq0 John Wick of Dogs fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Jan 4, 2021 |
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Jan 4, 2021 19:16
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Oh god I just got reminded of the complete furore that got raised when ASM1 had a Peter Parker who was geeky and popular and grown men who grew up when that wasn’t true got really upset by it.
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Jan 4, 2021 19:19
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For the record there's obviously a tone and style to the MCU which has been super successful and popular, I just reject the idea that it is "more faithful to the comics" or whatever, despite that being the meme. If I had to try and explain it, it's more like "more faithful to how I read the comics when I was 12". I.e. you* probably liked the cool action and liked that Hero-Man saved the day and got the girl and made some one-liners, and even when there was some heavier themes or the hero did questionable stuff you didn't really care about that because you were invested in the power fantasy and maybe even skimmed over a lot of the wordier stuff. But yeah, the MCU is great at maintaining the tone of a mostly clean power fantasy where you rarely ever get into anything sticky, and when you do you just act more heroic next time and everything is tidied up by the end of the movie, but mostly it is fun and sexy and cool, and you can imagine yourself being Iron Man and everyone likes you. * "you" being the general audience you, which includes me, and not any specific person in this thread
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Jan 4, 2021 19:32
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Total Meatlove posted:Oh god I just got reminded of the complete furore that got raised when ASM1 had a Peter Parker who was geeky and popular and grown men who grew up when that wasn’t true got really upset by it. I have a RL friend who is a genuine Spider-Man fanatic and the only Spider-Man movies he likes is Spider-Verse. Everything else didn't do a 100% accurate representation of the Ditko-Lee origin and so is lacking in some way (I think Spider-Verse only "gets away with it" in his mind because it doesn't have a "real" Spider-Man)
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Jan 4, 2021 19:38
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So good.
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Jan 4, 2021 19:59
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A cinematic cul-de-sac SuperMechagodzilla posted:I'd say that's the broad strokes of it, but it gets complicated when you get into specifics and note that the characters don't actually, y'know, buy anything. What kind of society do they have inside the mall? None of the characters are growing new food, or building new TVs. They're sort-of hunter-gatherers? Thanks for the elaboration. Planning to rewatch it soon and I'll keep this stuff in mind.
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Jan 4, 2021 20:40
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The kind-of derogatory "cul-de-sac" to refer to a movie that doesn't have a sequel is a weird new thing. Like imagine calling Return Of The King a cul-de-sac
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Jan 4, 2021 20:47
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The Joker: a cinematic cul-de-sac
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Jan 4, 2021 21:10
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If Titanic was such a masterpiece how come there wasn't a Titanic 2?
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Jan 4, 2021 21:39
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This is the Private Equity mindset imported to studios. Everything is a perpetual service to be milked forever. The idea of simply creating something and selling it, then doing that again and again, is gone. You button up the IP so no one else can touch it and then you continually milk it with cross-promotion so that your audience is encouraged to continually spend on merchandising and tie-ins to get the "whole story". FOMO as narrative.Schwarzwald posted:If Titanic was such a masterpiece how come there wasn't a Titanic 2? Titanic 2: In The Dame of the Rose
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Jan 4, 2021 21:39
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Schwarzwald posted:If Titanic was such a masterpiece how come there wasn't a Titanic 2?
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Jan 4, 2021 21:44
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Schwarzwald posted:If Titanic was such a masterpiece how come there wasn't a Titanic 2? Cameron's working on it OK get off his back
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Jan 4, 2021 21:48
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Schwarzwald posted:If Titanic was such a masterpiece how come there wasn't a Titanic 2? Asylum's already there: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanic_II_(film)
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Jan 4, 2021 22:14
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This reminds me of the Kevin Feige interview where he pushed back against Scorsese's "The MCU isn't cinema" controversy by asserting that there are different kinds of creative risks - such as the one they took with their most valuable intellectual property by placing them in conflict with one another (Potentially reducing their likeability ratings which affect long-term profit margins).
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Jan 4, 2021 22:38
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