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Data Graham posted:Still though, you know. GWB in a flight suit got a lot of people's dicks hard, and then watching Bill Pullman ape it in Independence Day sealed the deal of "what a President is" for a generation I don't think the flight suit stunt worked particularly well, even at the time, it looked Hollywood and cheesy. Anyone with a brain saw that "Mission Accomplished" banner and knew Bush had just utterly hosed his 70% approval rating.
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Jan 5, 2021 14:56
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Data Graham posted:... wait. what did my brain even just do Life imitating art, imitating life. Roland Emmerich is the modern-day Nostradamus. Any day now the Yellowstone caldera is gonna burst.
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Jan 5, 2021 14:57
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The only people that thought the W flight suit nonsense was cool were apocalyptic Christians like him and eldritch slobs like that woman from the RNC with the purple heart on her face. And now I'm angry again.
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Jan 5, 2021 15:00
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DynamicSloth posted:I don't think the flight suit stunt worked particularly well, even at the time, it looked Hollywood and cheesy. Anyone with a brain saw that "Mission Accomplished" banner and knew Bush had just utterly hosed his 70% approval rating. I mean that's what I'm saying, you might be underestimating just how profusely the right-wing blogosphere salivated over it. It was of a piece with the "Bush throws football like manly man / Kerry throws like girl" photos I mean this is just the impression I had at the time, and maybe the statistics don't bear it out. But if people are still trying to capitalize on that imagery to boost their political careers it doesn't surprise me, is all I'm saying.
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Jan 5, 2021 15:00
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Just saw this: https://twitter.com/freep/status/1346434539506311171 Can anyone with more knowledge about this bill/debate or criminal justice reform tell me if this is a good or bad thing? Drunk driving is one thing that really irritates me, but decriminalization is good in general, so I don't know what to think. Also, I'm unaware of any specifics that might sway my opinion beyond what's listed in the article (if there's a # of years requirement since the DUI, etc).
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Jan 5, 2021 15:03
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Data Graham posted:I mean that's what I'm saying, you might be underestimating just how profusely the right-wing blogosphere salivated over it. The culture warriors certainly saw... Something in Dubya  
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Jan 5, 2021 15:06
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Rappaport posted:The culture warriors certainly saw... Something in Dubya He looks incredibly like Pence there. Mirin' those forearms tho, future candidates should start doing wrist curls before they even declare interest in running
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Jan 5, 2021 15:07
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The Lone Badger posted:I see a problem here. Trust me, McConnell doesn't want to put up with Trump one minute more than he has to.
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Jan 5, 2021 15:10
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Kalit posted:Just saw this: https://twitter.com/freep/status/1346434539506311171 Yeah that one's tough for me too. Drunk driving is idiotic and dangerous, but on the other hand it really does completely ruin people's lives. One of my friends got a DUI 15 years ago and he's still dealing with the fallout, the cost was crazy. And he was barely over the limit at the time. The only difference between me and him at that age is that he got caught, I drove home hammered a number of times for years in my youth. That said, keeping the penalty harsh does do more for deterrent. Same friend never drinks at bars anymore and is generally much healthier.
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Jan 5, 2021 15:11
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Kalit posted:Just saw this: https://twitter.com/freep/status/1346434539506311171 With no knowledge at all of what the legalization was aimed at, I don't blame her, drunk driving is one of the worst things you can do and completely an avoidable situation to put yourself in.
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Jan 5, 2021 15:11
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I’m fine with them throwing the hammer at drunk drivers because unlike  drunk drivers ruin innocent lives.Medullah posted:Yeah that one's tough for me too. Drunk driving is idiotic and dangerous, but on the other hand it really does completely ruin people's lives. One of my friends got a DUI 15 years ago and he's still dealing with the fallout, the cost was crazy. And he was barely over the limit at the time. The only difference between me and him at that age is that he got caught, I drove home hammered a number of times for years in my youth. The “cost” is crazy ok but him slamming into a car and murdering those people who did everything right is also pretty crazy. gently caress your friend and gently caress you too. Boris Galerkin fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Jan 5, 2021 |
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Jan 5, 2021 15:13
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I was almost killed by a drunk driver hitting me at a stop light at 50 miles an hour last year. This isn’t like shoplifting or getting caught with a dime bag. People die from this.
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Jan 5, 2021 15:14
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Kalit posted:Just saw this: https://twitter.com/freep/status/1346434539506311171 It looks like its based on a bill already passed to expunge other offenses after 3-7 years, which explicitly excluded drunk driving. I'm pretty torn on if it's good or not. On the one hand, our justice system is entirely garbage. On the other, so are drunk drivers. If you keep other harsh penalties I don't see why a 7 year expungement would be bad, assuming no repeat offenses
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Jan 5, 2021 15:16
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Drunk driving laws are currently just a fine on being poor. Of course abolish the record given sufficient passage of time.
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Jan 5, 2021 15:17
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All the bill allowed for apparently was for first-time offenders who hadn't injured/killed anybody to petition a judge to see if they would expunge it as far as I know. That's real benign and it's a bit baffling to draw the line there.
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Jan 5, 2021 15:20
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papa horny michael posted:Drunk driving laws are currently just a fine on being poor. Of course abolish the record given sufficient passage of time. Would love to hear your reasoning behind them just bring a tax on the poor.
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Jan 5, 2021 15:23
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I believe the thought behind that is that people with more money can afford good DUI lawyers and mostly 'get out of it', for lack of a better term. More lenient sentence, not sure about fees, though. DUI punishments can be severe, and poor people feel it more. DUI on record can kill job prospects. They may be restricted to driving completely, or only during daytime and/or going to and from work. They may have to pay for a breathalyzer to be installed in their ignition.
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Jan 5, 2021 15:24
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Zeron posted:All the bill allowed for apparently was for first-time offenders who hadn't injured/killed anybody to petition a judge to see if they would expunge it as far as I know. That's real benign and it's a bit baffling to draw the line there. Yea, considering it was introduced by Republicans, I could see some of their rural friends who couldn't talk their way out of the DUI pushing it. Granted, non-white people still proportionately get DUI charges more than white people (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/8063497_Driving_under_the_influence_DUI_among_US_ethnic_groups), so it might still be better from an equality/criminal justice point of view? 
Kalit fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Jan 5, 2021 |
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Jan 5, 2021 15:25
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I could see an argument revolving around the fact that fines cause disproportionate amounts of suffering (and are therefore differently deterring) depending on if the fined party is rich or poor, and that the rich can more easily afford to get someone sober to drive for them.
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Jan 5, 2021 15:27
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Jealous Cow posted:Would love to hear your reasoning behind them just bring a tax on the poor. I remember my friends in the US terrified of drinking whenever we went out because they were mostly public school teachers anda DUI would ruin their record and likely get them fired and blacklisted. I couldn't drive for them because I didn't have a US license. Compare that to the mess of politicians and rich failsons piling upo DUIs to no effect. Wasn't it W's wife who actually killed someone while drunk driving and just skated?
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Jan 5, 2021 15:28
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It's a huge can of worms and there's no right answer, but in America this:Thom12255 posted:drunk driving is completely an avoidable situation to put yourself in. is not true. Outside of dense urban areas, a vehicle is required to get around, and we have no public transport. Taxis are expensive, slow, and often unavailable. Sure, you can say people shouldn't drink that much or should always have a designated driver, but you can also say abstinence works. Humans just don't work that way. It's a lovely situation all around.
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Jan 5, 2021 15:29
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Jealous Cow posted:Would love to hear your reasoning behind them just bring a tax on the poor. If you didn't kill anyone and have the money to afford a competent lawyer it basically amounts to a fine, and then the old adage of "laws where the penalty is only money only really apply to the poor" kicks in.
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Jan 5, 2021 15:29
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Medullah posted:Yeah that one's tough for me too. Drunk driving is idiotic and dangerous, but on the other hand it really does completely ruin people's lives. One of my friends got a DUI 15 years ago and he's still dealing with the fallout, the cost was crazy. And he was barely over the limit at the time. The only difference between me and him at that age is that he got caught, I drove home hammered a number of times for years in my youth. Anecdotally, so i should probably actually look up statistics on this, but everyone I've known who got DUIs either got one and had a huge wakeup call about how much of an idiot they are while drunk or they went on to get several more. I think most people I knew who got one fell into the first category by a significant margin. It is a complicated issue in that it's basically a dice roll whether or not someone is unlucky enough to end up hurting someone so idk if there's a clear moral difference between someone who did or did not injure someone in terms of the risk they willingly subjected others to. That said if someone demonstrates that they give a gently caress, gets help, and doesn't do that poo poo again, by all means it's probably reasonable to expunge it. Upon looking it up ~30% of dui arrests are for people with prior dui arrests (and apparently this number has been relatively stable for quite a while). Jows posted:If you didn't kill anyone and have the money to afford a competent lawyer it basically amounts to a fine, and then the old adage of "laws where the penalty is only money only really apply to the poor" kicks in. Yeah the whole system around duis is pretty hosed up. I know it varies state to state, but it's really, really hard to actually lose the ability to drive in some states. Like they'll add restrictions but as long as someone pays for a lawyer and argues that they need to be able to drive for family or work reasons or whatever, there's a good chance they'll still be driving. And from knowing people who had breathalyzers installed, they quickly figured out exactly how much they could drink how long before their car would start (and it definitely wasn't minimal). Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Jan 5, 2021 |
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Jan 5, 2021 15:31
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ColdPie posted:It's a huge can of worms and there's no right answer, but in America this: Drinking at a bar is an entirely avoidable thing.
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Jan 5, 2021 15:34
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ColdPie posted:Sure, you can say people shouldn't drink that much or should always have a designated driver, but you can also say abstinence works. Humans just don't work that way. Ha ha, no. You're an irresponsible idiot if you think deciding never to drink when you can't get home without driving is impossible or comparable to abstinence.
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Jan 5, 2021 15:37
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Data Graham posted:I mean that's what I'm saying, you might be underestimating just how profusely the right-wing blogosphere salivated over it. I recently had to explain what "swiftboating" was to a younger person and they looked appalled. Conservative messaging is so good at appealing to the lower brain functions, there doesn't seem to be any particularly effective counter to it.
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Jan 5, 2021 15:40
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Boris Galerkin posted:Drinking at a bar is an entirely avoidable thing. Walh Hara posted:Ha ha, no. You're an irresponsible idiot if you think deciding never to drink when you can't get home without driving is impossible or comparable to abstinence. GJ guys, you solved drunk driving. Looking forward to zero drunk driving deaths this year. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 5, 2021 15:40
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Jows posted:If you didn't kill anyone and have the money to afford a competent lawyer it basically amounts to a fine, and then the old adage of "laws where the penalty is only money only really apply to the poor" kicks in. The direct penalty from a first offense DUI where nobody is injured is generally pretty minimal. The real harm from a DUI conviction comes from two, or rather three, things: 1) your insurance rates spike dramatically, meaning you will need to be fairly well off to keep driving OR you will keep driving anyway without insurance and face future arrests for driving without insurance, 2) you will get locked out of a lot of lower level jobs that require driving (e.g., fedex won't hire you, other employers might not depending) 3) if you're arrested for a second dui down the road you will face very heavy fines and probably jailtime. That said, even a first offense DUI if someone is hurt or killed, yeah, you're probably going to jail for a very long time, no matter how rich or white you are.
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Jan 5, 2021 15:40
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ColdPie posted:
Oh wow, you're making this argument and this analogy with a straight face! Hieronymous Alloy posted:
Isn't the affluenza kid basically a refutation of this?
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Jan 5, 2021 15:41
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ColdPie posted:It's a huge can of worms and there's no right answer, but in America this: People can just not drink if they know they have no alternate way of getting home other than driving themselves. I know there's the 10 different 'well, buts' people list off to this poo poo, i spent 10 years playing pool in bars a couple nights a week... it really is that simple.
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Jan 5, 2021 15:42
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I think drunk driving should continue to have extremely harsh punishments because innocent lives die from it all the time. I think most of us know of someone who got hosed up / killed by a dipshit drunk driver. On the other hand, I do think if an under 18year old was arrested for a DUI, they should be able to get that expunged from their record after a certain time if they have shown they are acting responsible towards alcohol, ect. Kids are dumb and do dumb poo poo and I don't think what a kid does at 16, should be held against them at 36 if they got themselves straighten out. My thinking on this applies to just about every offence not just drunk driving. quote:That said, even a first offense DUI if someone is hurt or killed, yeah, you're probably going to jail for a very long time, no matter how rich or white you are. Ehhhh. Wealth and Race do still very much play a part in what kind of sentence you get, and how much it fucks up your life. Solaris 2.0 fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Jan 5, 2021 |
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Jan 5, 2021 15:42
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Bubbacub posted:I recently had to explain what "swiftboating" was to a younger person and they looked appalled. Conservative messaging is so good at appealing to the lower brain functions, there doesn't seem to be any particularly effective counter to it. Remember how just the fact that Kerry used the word "nuance" to describe foreign relations was disqualifying to that side? To this day if you say "nuance" to a certain cohort, in any context, they will laugh at you for your ivory-tower naïveté
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Jan 5, 2021 15:46
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ColdPie posted:Outside of dense urban areas, a vehicle is required to get around, and we have no public transport. Taxis are expensive, slow, and often unavailable. Sure, you can say people shouldn't drink that much or should always have a designated driver, but you can also say abstinence works. Humans just don't work that way. I hear this all the time and it's just the weakest bullshit imaginable. There is no public transportation or taxi service where I live and I manage to not drink and drive. gently caress those people who do.
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Jan 5, 2021 15:46
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ColdPie posted:Sure, you can say people shouldn't drink that much or should always have a designated driver, but you can also say abstinence works. Humans just don't work that way. It scares me that people rationalize this stuff.
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Jan 5, 2021 15:46
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Like, you're your own ride home for the night? congratulations on your evening of drinking one piss beer an hour while you're out (and stopping a good while before you drive home). Or just pay a loving cab: if you're fine paying an 800% markup on booze, fuckit, pay the markup on the car ride. You can literally get a 30 dollar cab ride home every night of the year and it is comparable in cost to one dui. \/ Hieronymous Alloy posted:Sure. But once you get into severe DUI's the penalties are so high, just due to the extremity of American sentencing laws, that you're gonna be fairly hosed up if convicted or if you plea, regardless. Eight years is still a hell of a long time to spend incarcerated. yeah that's still going to be 2-3 years served at best and release terms are almost definitely going to be really restrictive and basically set up to give you every opportunity to fail. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Jan 5, 2021 |
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Jan 5, 2021 15:48
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TyroneGoldstein posted:
Hence the "probably" There's always a chance you luck out but just as an example, I once attended a multi-day DUI seminar where the keynote presentation was from a lawyer who had defended a fatality DUI. His client was a young well off white dude and the decedent was a young white blond girl. The big achievement the presentation was about was that he was only sentenced to eight years not twenty. Solaris 2.0 posted:
Sure. But once you get into severe DUI's the penalties are so high, just due to the extremity of American sentencing laws, that you're gonna be fairly hosed up if convicted or if you plea, regardless. Eight years is still a hell of a long time to spend incarcerated. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Jan 5, 2021 |
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Jan 5, 2021 15:49
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Skippy McPants posted:Life imitating art, imitating life. Roland Emmerich is the modern-day Nostradamus. Any day now the Yellowstone caldera is gonna burst. As long as Woody Harrelson is on-scene to give us the play-by-play, I'm in. ColdPie posted:is not true. Outside of dense urban areas, a vehicle is required to get around, and we have no public transport. Taxis are expensive, slow, and often unavailable. Sure, you can say people shouldn't drink that much or should always have a designated driver, but you can also say abstinence works. Humans just don't work that way. Perhaps the one good thing about Uber is that this is no longer an excuse (and it was a bad excuse before that anyway).
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Jan 5, 2021 15:52
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Vire posted:I was almost killed by a drunk driver hitting me at a stop light at 50 miles an hour last year. This isn’t like shoplifting or getting caught with a dime bag. People die from this. You could change this to "I was almost killed by a driver hitting me at a stop light at 50 miles an hour last year.", and it would sound equally believable and mundane. American car culture is insane. Really wish one of the lasting effects of COVID would be a diminished need for a daily commute.
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Jan 5, 2021 15:53
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Like, you're your own ride home for the night? congratulations on your evening of not drinking while you're out. Or just pay a loving cab: if you're fine paying an 800% markup on booze, fuckit, pay the markup on the car ride. You can literally get a 30 dollar cab ride home every night of the year and it is comparable in cost to one dui. There, I fixed it for you, that wasn't so hard after all.
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Jan 5, 2021 15:53
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Remember the affluenza kid. Imagine his sentence if he'd been Black. https://twitter.com/ryanlcooper/status/1346178169951412224?s=20
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