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Yeah, I've contacted my work and am taking the rest of the week off at least. Thankfully I just went and got groceries a few days ago. I'll give myself 48hrs to go get tested, because I don't want to return a false negative for getting tested too early.
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Jan 5, 2021 19:04
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withak posted:The goal isn't to persuade someone who is 100% insane. It is the people maybe in the 20-60% insane range who might be nudged in the right direction by seeing highly-visible people getting stuck. right but why aren't 65+ year old politicians good enough for that, they still go before the general public, so they don't have to skip the line to get that photo-op if indeed vids of politicians getting the vaccine do in fact convince 20-60%-insane people that it's safe
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Jan 5, 2021 19:07
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Fritz the Horse posted:Vaccinating politicians and healthcare workers has an effect on vaccine acceptance and morale. And yet all I see on FB comments of doctors/nurses/politicians getting shots is accusations that a) they're faking, its empty or they're not pushing the plunger b) its saline, there's not really vaccine in it c) quotes from all the medical workers who are refusing to get it because they don't want to be test subjects
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Jan 5, 2021 19:10
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Oracle posted:And yet all I see on FB comments of doctors/nurses/politicians getting shots is accusations that Giving myself an embolism to own the cons.
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Jan 5, 2021 19:11
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Oracle posted:c) quotes from all the medical workers who are refusing to get it because they don't want to be test subjects On this point I can't blame a lot of them - what the UK just did backstabbed a ton of people who are now guinea pigs to see if mixing the vaccine dose regime is still effective (zero testing has been done on this and they are based on different technologies so it is quite possible it's not as good for you).
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Jan 5, 2021 19:16
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I understand their issue but imagine how dumb you'd feel as you die from covid.
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Jan 5, 2021 19:20
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DTurtle posted:Here in Germany we have the exact opposite problem: All (well, a lot) of the infrastructure is set up to start mass immunization, but Germany and the EU ordered too few Biontech vaccine doses (which is the only vaccine approved so far). They wanted to save money by not over ordering from multiple manufacturers. It’s not saving money, it’s literally Macron and the French insisting that the EU can not order more Biontech vaccines than Sanofi vaccines, even if it means some dead grandmas. Btw, the Sanofi vaccine doesn’t work and this was known at the time the decision was made. All very cool and good
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Jan 5, 2021 19:23
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I'm providing some free cannabis to someone in state who's wife has, apparently, severe long covid symptoms including all kinds of weird loving neurological things, some of which involve pain and sleep disruption which are tractable to cannabis. They both got infected and tested positive in August. He maintains that they were staying home and leaving only for shopping and that their recreation had been limited to "being in the woods by themselves", so he's somewhat confused how they got it at all, but mostly just seems unhappy that it's been such an awful, tremendous, life-changing thing. loving sucks, I hope my high CBD , high THC herbs help a little :-/ Also makes me nervous about my decision to start skiing. I don't go indoors, I'm masked in line and we're all spaced out like 10', but it's the first thing I've been doing since March that represents any kind "unnecessary travel outside the home" and my wife is pregnant.
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Jan 5, 2021 19:36
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Cabbages and Kings posted:He maintains that they were staying home and leaving only for shopping and that their recreation had been limited to "being in the woods by themselves", so he's somewhat confused how they got it at all, but mostly just seems unhappy that it's been such an awful, tremendous, life-changing thing. Just because we can take some mitigation methods, such as limiting our outings or wearing masks, doesn't mean that all risk is gone. It's just lessened from seeing how far away you can sneeze on someone inside the packed bar. Now, saying, "oh it's only a 1 in 100,000 chance you'd get it from a brief grocery store visit" doesn't really matter to the 1, but still, at some point somebody's gotta be that 1. Possibly why 501.V2 and B.1.1.7 are more transmissible are that they're spitting out more viral particles into the air, which is bypassing one of the features of COVID we've been taking advantage of, that it requires a certain number of viral particles to take hold and prolonged exposure is what's done the trick. If those are able to cause more infections in simply passing by another, then things like grocery shopping, while necessary, will carry more risk than now. Tbh the way hospitals are in my area I'm not doing anything outdoors where there's even remotely more of a risk of me requiring hospitalization or medical care for anything. I hear people getting ready to go to the mountains for skiing or snowboarding and even beyond the whole renting cabins with friends together (wtf), driving there plus those recreational activities are a decent "I need medical care after" risk.
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Jan 5, 2021 20:24
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Cabbages and Kings posted:They both got infected and tested positive in August. He maintains that they were staying home and leaving only for shopping and that their recreation had been limited to "being in the woods by themselves", so he's somewhat confused how they got it at all, but mostly just seems unhappy that it's been such an awful, tremendous, life-changing thing. If you're already avoiding restaurants, gyms, the office, and indoor gatherings then the low probability transmission routes suddenly matter a lot more for your personal risk profile. It's pretty long odds to get infected via a ballistic droplet outside from an anti-masker or dicknoser but once you eliminate all the high likelihood routes it's stuff like that that will get you sick. HelloSailorSign posted:Possibly why 501.V2 and B.1.1.7 are more transmissible are that they're spitting out more viral particles into the air, which is bypassing one of the features of COVID we've been taking advantage of, that it requires a certain number of viral particles to take hold and prolonged exposure is what's done the trick. If those are able to cause more infections in simply passing by another, then things like grocery shopping, while necessary, will carry more risk than now. More viral particle shedding by the pre-symptomatic (or a longer mean pre-symptomatic period) seems plausible to me since the known variants aren't apparently more virulent, which you would expect if the virus had gotten better at invading cells somehow. But it's hard to tell if that translates into "walking by someone in the store is now a statistically significant risk" or "ballistic droplets are now more infectious" or "the 'close contact' time should now be 10 minutes rather than 15" or all three without a bunch of study of the new variant's spread in the real world from known index cases. This would all be a lot easier if there weren't millions of concurrent infections generating these variants just saying. The Oldest Man fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Jan 5, 2021 |
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Jan 5, 2021 20:24
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Shibawanko posted:since israel has already vaccinated something like 14% of the population, is there any evidence that the vaccine is working to lower the infection rate? i'm guessing this should already have some kind of visible effect right? If they've successfully vaccinated a decent portion of the most vulnerable folks, there will likely be an effect on death rates - eventually. Remember that it takes several weeks for the vaccination to provide disease resistance AND deaths lag cases by several weeks. We wouldn't expect to see death rates start dropping for at least another month, and if new cases continue to skyrocket the aggregate effect might be more of a leveling than a precipitous drop. For infection rates, even if the vaccine was 100% effective at preventing infection and transmission 14% coverage wouldn't be enough to put a noticeable dent in transmission rates for a virus as transmissible as SARS-CoV-2. Plus, the people who are currently getting vaccinated are not the folks who are at the highest risk of death if they contract COVID, not the folks who are the highest risk of infection and transmission (that's people who work/go to school outside the home or people ignoring guidance and pursuing social activities). Vaccination coverage will need to be much higher to significantly the infection rate, and how high will depend heavily on how much vaccination prevents infection and transmission. That said, we may see a drop in reported cases if vaccination makes COVID mild enough that people don't get tested (though people being unaware of their infection status would lead to more transmissions behind the scenes). Hopefully we'll start sentinel surveillance of asymptomatic prevalence as vaccine coverage increases.
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Jan 5, 2021 20:47
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The Oldest Man posted:If you're already avoiding restaurants, gyms, the office, and indoor gatherings then the low probability transmission routes suddenly matter a lot more for your personal risk profile. It's pretty long odds to get infected via a ballistic droplet outside from an anti-masker or dicknoser but once you eliminate all the high likelihood routes it's stuff like that that will get you sick. This is why I've gone from groceries' (indoor shopping, but first thing when stores are mostly empty) to this next week full on curb side delivery Amazon delivery of groceries. Other than nature walks I don't need to leave my property at that point. I'll still wipe down all groceries as well. I am not high on the list of getting the vaccine, so I'll just keep this up for the next 6 to 9 months until I can get the vaccine. It's not great but I'd like to be one of the ones that never gets it.
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Jan 5, 2021 20:57
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I have an ex-colleague who I play video games with sometimes. He's in Colorado, his girlfriend lives in ? The South or something and his parents live on the east coast. He flies to see his girlfriend / she flies to him (she is studying medicine!) regularly. His parents fly to see him once a month. On the chat, his friend, in LA, was saying "I should meet all of you guys when I come back to colorado!" and he and another guy said 'yes'. He also said "yeah, well I hang out with <some other guy> at least twice a week, we go skiing together". So here's the thing: he believes in the virus and takes it seriously. He's not a stupid guy, but he is in his 20's. Dude. In the USA we're hosed. I even had an argument with friends (I bet this will start an argument here too) about how, in my opinion, driving is safer than flying, and everyone was like "noooo, hotel rooms! gas stations! I'd rather fly!" and like, I don't get it. Gas stations are outside, hotel rooms don't have other people in them breathing, just use hand sanitiser after touching things? They did point out that a flight (I was talking about a 2 hour flight / 18 hour drive) is a lot quicker so less time to be exposed total, but in my opinion, IF YOU'RE IN YOUR OWN loving CAR, NOBODY IS BREATHING ON YOU! Whereas in a plane, the exact opposite is true. As I write this I realise I have two really trusted close friends who also flew during this pandemic. Thankfully we don't bubble with anyone, although we are in daycare ( a potentially massive bubble)
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Jan 5, 2021 21:01
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redreader posted:I have an ex-colleague who ... He clearly doesn't take it seriously. Those are not life choices of anyone that does.
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Jan 5, 2021 21:09
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redreader posted:I have an ex-colleague who I play video games with sometimes. He's in Colorado, his girlfriend lives in ? The South or something and his parents live on the east coast. Like many people they don't understand how things are transmitted. Western governments didn't help. They pushed fomite transmission over airborne hard. They've never done anything to correct this 'error'. So you get lots of people who think its safe to be inside rooms with strangers because they're 6 feet away and they wash their hands.
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Jan 5, 2021 21:14
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Yeah, if his family/girlfriend are flying to visit him from different parts of the country and he’s regularly hanging out with his bro’s, he’s is part of the problem, not the solution to this crisis.
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Jan 5, 2021 21:14
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Sad Panda posted:He clearly doesn't take it seriously. Those are not life choices of anyone that does. I used to think that but I'm starting to think that people who aren't curious about this will be like 'airlines are safe or they'd be closed, everything's fine if you mask up, it's not a problem'. edit: and to the second comment... he's absolutely part of the problem, I agree. It's just weird how almost everyone I know is not taking it as seriously as I am.
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Jan 5, 2021 21:14
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Some of it is likely fatigue. I'm vulnerable so i'm taking it seriously but I can understand healthy people just chancing things at this point, even if I don't like it.
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Jan 5, 2021 21:16
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redreader posted:I used to think that but I'm starting to think that people who aren't curious about this will be like 'airlines are safe or they'd be closed, everything's fine if you mask up, it's not a problem'. If you're not terminally online, it's pretty hard to avoid the gravitational pull of everyone with an ad budget in our society continually bombarding you with messages that minimize the disease and glamorize getting on planes, going to bars, and licking your friends' faces. That's not to excuse them; people who had the privilege of describing themselves as "not being political" or "not following the news" are now actively the enemy of everyone staying alive at this point.
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Jan 5, 2021 21:20
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I've been doing car pickup of groceries for 6 months now and it's actually saving me money I think and safer for everyone. Kroger also runs out of specific items a lot and just gives me the next biggest or higher quality brand item while paying the same as the lower costing item I chose which is nice. Got some really nice cuts of meat for free basically.
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Jan 5, 2021 21:23
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redreader posted:I have an ex-colleague who I play video games with sometimes. He's in Colorado, his girlfriend lives in ? The South or something and his parents live on the east coast. They're right that long-distance drives are bad too. But it's not even worth arguing the difference unless you absolutely have to travel, for something essential. Your friend can go a month without seeing his parents.
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Jan 5, 2021 21:43
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Is the US military vaccinated yet? I'd assume they are pretty high up on the list.
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Jan 5, 2021 21:47
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The Oldest Man posted:If you're already avoiding restaurants, gyms, the office, and indoor gatherings then the low probability transmission routes suddenly matter a lot more for your personal risk profile. this is why we're still dicking around with quarantining mail for a couple days. I realize we don't have any solid evidence that fomite transmission is much of a risk, but, "things shipped in or bought from the outside world" are the main vector for any foreign organism getting into our house now. We don't have nosedicks or antimaskers here; I shop at off peak hours and people keep their distance and use masks properly. We're also back on the "order ahead and do pickup" for grocery plan, now that numbers here are.... bad. I had been making trips to my parents for childcare support, very carefully, but we've basically halted that because numbers are so bad on both ends of the line right now. Main Paineframe posted:They're right that long-distance drives are bad too. But it's not even worth arguing the difference unless you absolutely have to travel, for something essential. Your friend can go a month without seeing his parents. I've done some 6 hour drives to see my 70s-aged parents during this. "Have to" is a funny phrase, but if I had not done that thing, we would have had zero help with any child support (I work 40-50 hrs a week, she had been working part time but that's dead for now) and my wife would not have gotten two week-long breaks from having to deal with kiddo all day. So, you're right, we probably could have gotten through it, but I was weighing the risks of a zero-stop 6 hour interstate drive vs the risks of my wife continuing to break down in tears constantly. Some might say we're not really taking this seriously, and I'm subjecting my parents to undue risk, and then I'm subjecting my (pregnant) wife to undue risk when I come back. They can say that all they like, it won't change my behavior one whit, because the wit's end has arrived and we're just making the best decisions we can day to day and trying not to go insane. This is not the same as monthly flights; on the other hand, not everyone lives someplace they can get to their families in a single no-stop drive. Cabbages and VHS fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Jan 5, 2021 |
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Jan 5, 2021 21:55
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Cabbages and Kings posted:
The actual drive aspect itself for a 6 hour drive vs an 18 hour drive goes (IMO) down from 'maybe risk due to getting out of your car a bunch of times and sleeping in a hotel' to 'no risk at all if you don't have to stop' but maybe you stop like, a single time in that drive. Big deal.
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Jan 5, 2021 21:57
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redreader posted:The actual drive aspect itself for a 6 hour drive vs an 18 hour drive goes (IMO) down from 'maybe risk due to getting out of your car a bunch of times and sleeping in a hotel' to 'no risk at all if you don't have to stop' but maybe you stop like, a single time in that drive. Big deal. Yeah, the drive itself concerns me less than the travel to where my parents are which is a loving hot zone. They're taking every precaution they can, but they do have to shop themselves, Instacart isn't a thing there and they couldn't afford the tax even if it was. To get curbside they have to go into a bigger town to a huge store so they mostly shop at the grocery store in their small town at like 8am, and otherwise don't do anything that involves being indoors with other humans, or outdoors unmasked around humans.
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Jan 5, 2021 21:59
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I don't think this can be fixed. As a nation we might outlive it, but fix it? No. https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1346540350941310976?s=20
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Jan 5, 2021 22:00
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Apparently NY may shutdown by the end of January.
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Jan 5, 2021 22:13
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Covok posted:Apparently NY may shutdown by the end of January. A shutdown or a "shutdown", which is far less effective? Don't need to answer, I know which it is.
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Jan 5, 2021 22:14
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Main Paineframe posted:But it's not even worth arguing the difference unless you absolutely have to travel, for something essential. Your friend can go a month without seeing his parents. I do understand that in person is different and that some people are not, "technologically savvy." That said, my young child has been seeing their grandparents regularly because we set up a computer and have grandpa making waffles at grandpa's house while we make waffles at our place. Grandma will spend an hour or so reading books to the kid via Zoom. Brother in law got a cheapo laptop and sent it off to great grandma with everything pre-set so it's a, "push this button, then click this button" kinda thing, and great grandma in the senior center has been regularly chatting to everyone in the family and handling the tech just fine. Obviously that's a thing that costs money, but it's a thing that the government possibly could've helped with. Cabbages and Kings posted:"Have to" is a funny phrase, but if I had not done that thing, we would have had zero help with any child support (I work 40-50 hrs a week, she had been working part time but that's dead for now) and my wife would not have gotten two week-long breaks from having to deal with kiddo all day. This is something that people without kids often don't understand. It really does take a village to raise a child, because it is uncommon to find the parent who can handle their kids needs and wants at all times without resorting to shortcuts. That doesn't make the rest of us parents a bad parent or a bad fit, that's simply what happens. I absolutely adore my kid and 80% of the time I love reading stories or going on imaginary adventures or drawing TIE fighters on the fence for them to spray off with their spray bottle... but 20% of the time I'd just like to have some quiet, some time to myself to recharge. Sometimes it's more time, especially if I was up several times in the night (whether or not it was because of kid), or if work's more nutty, or if the world's crazier than usual... In the Before Times, not only would things like school, daycare, and family care/sitters manage to provide that recharge time, but going places like the zoo, or aquarium, or camping with friends could do it too. Going someplace where they could wonder at the giant fish zooming overhead, giggle at the chattering flock of parrots, or sit around a fire with friends and family gazing up at the stars... those are the things I miss. It's why way back when our priorities should have been trying to figure out how to get schools "reopened" - whether that was hard lock downs to squash outbreaks and get rid of COVID, or significant funding to schools to get more educators and more real estate to allow a spreading out of students, teachers, and support personnel, or... but that's moot, because we didn't do any of that. Now teachers and all associated support personnel should be next in line for vaccines after healthcare workers. We'll have to see when they start getting vaccine data on young kids.
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Jan 5, 2021 22:36
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https://mobile.twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1346570931293069319
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Jan 5, 2021 22:44
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Well boys. I got my vaccine. I said I was an essential medical worker and they refused. I then demanded to see their manager and the manager said 'ah gently caress it this vaccine doesn't work anyway" and poked me.
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Jan 5, 2021 23:01
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knox_harrington posted:From the FDA EUAs the 100ug and 30ug are just the RNA amounts. They list the other ingredients separately. here's what you dug up for Pfizer: quote:Each 0.3 mL dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine contains 30 mcg of a nucleoside-modified messenger RNA (modRNA) encoding the viral spike (S) glycoprotein of SARS-CoV-2. from here: https://www.fda.gov/media/144434/download the Moderna vaccine contains: quote:The vaccine contains a synthetic messenger ribonucleic I couldn't find a source with the masses of each component, but they're using different lipids and buffers.
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Jan 5, 2021 23:22
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redreader posted:So here's the thing: he believes in the virus and takes it seriously. He's not a stupid guy, but he is in his 20's. No he doesn't and yes he is.
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Jan 5, 2021 23:28
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Dick Trauma posted:I don't think this can be fixed. As a nation we might outlive it, but fix it? No. There's only one way out of a death cult.
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Jan 5, 2021 23:40
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Fritz the Horse posted:here's what you dug up for Pfizer: quote:Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine is provided as a white to off-white suspension for intramuscular
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Jan 5, 2021 23:47
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Aha, I knew apple cider vinegar could treat COVID, it's right there in the Moderna vaccine!
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Jan 5, 2021 23:50
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HelloSailorSign posted:Now teachers and all associated support personnel should be next in line for vaccines after healthcare workers. We'll have to see when they start getting vaccine data on young kids. Unfortunately if we re-open schools before all the kids get vaccinated, it's going to spike the outbreak again: https://twitter.com/Dr2NisreenAlwan/status/1345661874302578689 https://twitter.com/Dr2NisreenAlwan/status/1345661881487392769 It absolutely does transmit to and between kids, and from kids to adults in their household at shockingly high rates compared to adult-to-adult household transmission, despite all the gaslighting about kids not spreading it based on very low testing rates and relatively higher rates of asymptomatic cases in kids.
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Jan 5, 2021 23:55
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The Oldest Man posted:It absolutely does transmit to and between kids, and from kids to adults in their household at shockingly high rates compared to adult-to-adult household transmission, despite all the gaslighting about kids not spreading it based on very low testing rates and relatively higher rates of asymptomatic cases in kids. Yes, that's correct. We still need to prioritize education, for the ones already working directly with students, and for preparation for reopening schools. Given we're coming into this in the latter half of the 2020-2021 school year, we should be doing everything we can to get it set for the 2021-2022 school year. Switching back to in person for the remainder 3 months seems... ill-advised. Not simply from an outbreak standpoint.
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Jan 5, 2021 23:58
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HelloSailorSign posted:Yes, that's correct. I'm still holding out some hope that everyone who wants a shot will be able to get it by next September, that we won't get vaccine resistant strains due to the botched management, and that maybe we can just catch a break on this one.
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Jan 6, 2021 00:00
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The Oldest Man posted:I'm still holding out some hope that everyone who wants a shot will be able to get it by next September, that we won't get vaccine resistant strains due to the botched management, and that maybe we can just catch a break on this one. I hate to break it to you...
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Jan 6, 2021 00:03
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