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I just reread the sequence where Taravangian kills Rayse and it says Tarvangian was killed, his connection to the physical realm was severed just before he ascended (he felt a snap, I assume that's what it was). Isn't that rather a big deal? The ideal vessel we learned in Mistborn secrets should have connection to all three realms, this was why Kelsier was not nearly as powerful as Ruin when trying to fight him. The book was quite specific about Kelsier being a cognitive shadow was suboptimal for a shard vessel. Well it seems like the same thing just happened here. It wasn't an alive Taravangian that ascended but his spirit/cognitive shadow only. This means this odium shouldn't be as powerful as a regular shard. Or did I mis-read the whole bit?
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Dec 24, 2020 21:31
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You're right, somebody without a body should not be the ideal vessel for a shard. Perhaps Taravangian "inherited" Rayse's body? Or was that destroyed by Nightblood as well?
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Dec 24, 2020 21:42
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i'd have to dig it up but i think there's a wob from the past month or two about how Taravangian wasn't totally dead, so he's basically okay
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Dec 24, 2020 21:56
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Anshu posted:Is there a resource for the linguistics mentioned there? I tried looking on Coppermind, but either it's not there or I couldn't think of how to properly search for it. I would guess it's just alluding to the Shin's naming method. Szeth-son-Vallano and whatnot.
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Dec 24, 2020 22:38
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His Divine Shadow posted:I just reread the sequence where Taravangian kills Rayse and it says Tarvangian was killed, his connection to the physical realm was severed just before he ascended (he felt a snap, I assume that's what it was). Isn't that rather a big deal? The ideal vessel we learned in Mistborn secrets should have connection to all three realms, this was why Kelsier was not nearly as powerful as Ruin when trying to fight him. The book was quite specific about Kelsier being a cognitive shadow was suboptimal for a shard vessel. Well it seems like the same thing just happened here. It wasn't an alive Taravangian that ascended but his spirit/cognitive shadow only. This means this odium shouldn't be as powerful as a regular shard. Or did I mis-read the whole bit? I think he was only mostly dead - they make a point about how we didn't see his corpse.
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Dec 25, 2020 02:31
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Anshu posted:Is there a resource for the linguistics mentioned there? I tried looking on Coppermind, but either it's not there or I couldn't think of how to properly search for it. Subvisual Haze posted:I would guess it's just alluding to the Shin's naming method. Szeth-son-Vallano and whatnot. There's bits sprinkled throughout the actual texts. For example, in one of Dalinar's flashbacks in Oathbringer, we learn that Adolin's name comes from "adoda" meaning "light" and the suffix "lin" means "born unto". So in relation to that particular WoB the "Ado" in Ba-Ado-Mishram likely is where the questioner got the thought of "light" from, and it does share characteristics with the structures of the Shin names. There would probably be other stuff in the glyphs or Alethi women's script pages.
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Dec 25, 2020 06:24
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Tunicate posted:I think he was only mostly dead - they make a point about how we didn't see his corpse. You know I just remembered that myself so yeah you're right.
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Dec 25, 2020 07:41
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Linguistics has always been part of Sanderson leaving clues. Consider Shalash, Herald of Beauty, Patron of Lightweavers, wielder of the surges of Illumination and Transformation. Now take your Elantris book, and look up the Aons Shao, Ala and Ashe, They mean transformation, beauty, and light, respectively. You can totally construct the herald's name from those three Aons, provided you leave out the last letter of two of them. And their meanings couldn't be more fitting for Shalash, so it's no surprise that Brandon confirmed that this is not a coincidence. Although I honestly don't know where they would get anything but the "ado" part. I guess it's time to search the 17th shard forums again.
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Dec 25, 2020 11:46
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Torrannor posted:Although I honestly don't know where they would get anything but the "ado" part. I guess it's time to search the 17th shard forums again.
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Dec 25, 2020 17:25
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Infinite Karma posted:Besides the part about light, the Sibling being a godspren that's a child of both Honor and Cultivation, with a light that's a mixture of both implies that there is another godspren that's similar enough to be a sibling instead of a cousin. At least that's my speculation. So the Sibling was created after BAM was unmade right? Also of Towerlight. The name Sibling makes sense
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Dec 25, 2020 17:39
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Infinite Karma posted:Besides the part about light, the Sibling being a godspren that's a child of both Honor and Cultivation, with a light that's a mixture of both implies that there is another godspren that's similar enough to be a sibling instead of a cousin. At least that's my speculation. I'm running on the assumption that it's the Sibling of the stormfather and the nightwatcher, personally
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Dec 25, 2020 18:51
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Currently continuing reading The Final Empire to my wife and we're about 1/3 of the way in and one particular chapter really stuck out to me as so laden with clues for what will happen. Kelsier is hanging out on Club's roof looking at Kredik Shaw and the book mentions how the name Kredik Shaw is a TERRIS NAME! Like it's right loving there! It's so obvious. Then Sazed comes up and tells him about Jaism and how the leader basically martyred himself to start his religious movement. Like the two main twists in the story are basically telegraphed in that one chapter.
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Dec 29, 2020 22:11
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eke out posted:re: the new tor chapter: given navani's viewpoint in the prologue and how fabrials seem more and more important and that this book heavily involves urithuru, i really hope we get Bondsmith Navani by the end of this book. navani owns Evil Fluffy posted:I think I've said this in the thread in the past but I suspect a big reveal at some point will be that when Odium killed Honor, part of Honor was infused to Odium and it's a major factor in why Odium's bound to Roshar and needs to destroy it before he can go on his cosmic rampage. Democratic Pirate posted:Idle RoW comments: His Divine Shadow posted:If so, I wonder if you can protect a coppermind from external interference by wrapping it in aluminum? Would be kinda funny if you could protect your memories by wrapping it in foil. Torrannor posted:That makes sense. And the remedy of freeing BAM seems obvious, Kalak even outright states it. I wouldn't be surprised to see her freed in SA5. Already mentioned, but the AonDor is the combination of splinters of Devotion and Dominion. The magic of each country is tied to land (Dominion) and incorporates the shape of the land into its runes. It's both together Mordiceius posted:Currently continuing reading The Final Empire to my wife and we're about 1/3 of the way in and one particular chapter really stuck out to me as so laden with clues for what will happen. Gotta say I've loved following your adventures, please keep sharing your insights
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Jan 2, 2021 21:48
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https://twitter.com/BrandSanderson/status/1346875904224493568
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Jan 6, 2021 23:33
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The man, the machine, the legend.
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Jan 7, 2021 01:46
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I really enjoyed the poo poo out of the first two Skyward books and cant wait to read the third. RoW was okay but Sanderson seems to really shine in a more condensed format.
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Jan 7, 2021 04:10
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External Organs posted:I really enjoyed the poo poo out of the first two Skyward books and cant wait to read the third. Agreed, he naturally seems to think in the novella-short novel format. Emperor's soul being the prime example, and that his process apparently involves getting multiple small stories first and then weaving them together into his door-stoppers
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Jan 9, 2021 03:10
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Agreed, though each Skyward novel is like 500 pages, it's only short by Branderson standards.
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Jan 9, 2021 03:28
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Just finished RoW (late, I know), finally catching up on this thread after not looking at it since the preview chapters started coming out. Interested to see all the negative reactions, overall I absolutely loved the book. Gonna post a bunch of thoughts, mostly about narrative. A lot of people complained that Kaladin was without his powers for far too long, honestly I thought it was great. With the start of the book being the alliance flexing with their flying ship and an army of radiants it felt very much like they were "overpowered", and damped a lot of the feeling of a great war that they could easily lose. Having the tower be taken and many POV characters stuck there was a good lull in the action, and the character development here was great. Kaladin has always resonated with me a ton and this book was no exception. His stepping away from battle and trying to help others with PTSD was a great character and narrative move, and let him explore other sides of his personality in a great way. Was also an amazing time to get more from Teft (more on that later, gently caress) and Rlain. I feel like the "dragging" feeling many people talked about with this section was very intentional, it helped provide the sense of oppression and desperation that's really important for the story to feel like a difficult battle, and really heightens the victory at the end. All the stuff with Navani was just great. The interplay between her and Raboniel was fantastic and was such a great new look at the Fused and a new type of antagonist. All the science stuff I just loved - I know many people thought it was plodding, and I suppose some of it could have been trimmed without losing too much, but I thought it was great. My only gripe here is that I felt like her bonding the Sibling at the end was a little bit of a cop-out. I'm sure there's more to happen here, but I think I would have found it more satisfying if Rlain had bonded them instead. But him getting an enlightened mistspren via Renarin was also really satisfying and fit a lot, as them both feeling like outsiders within bridge 4. Getting a better look at Dabbid in this section was also fantastic, he was a great character and getting POV chapters for him was a delight. But.... there were also some weak sections. The flashbacks with Venli felt totally useless. There were a couple nuggets of good information (when she was at Gavilar's feast, and the interaction with the chasm fiend), but overall it felt like a retreading of things we already knew - almost everything in these flashbacks could have been covered by a couple lines of expository dialog to someone else, like her explaining her backstory to Rlain. Having flashbacks from Eshonai was really weird and out of place. She's dead and we know her story already, the final reveal about her from the stormfather not only felt predictable (it was pretty obvious she was resisting the form of power and easy to guess she would get a radiant bond), and it felt like a disappointment that we're stuck with Venli instead. Her character is boring and vapid - her backstory is entirely about her being cowardly and ambitious, and even in the present-time she's still selfish and largely irritating. Her actions are pretty much entirely about self-preservation and it feels really dumb that she's the first singer to get a radiant bond. We even know of other much better candidates, like Rlain! And... Shallan. Shallan was was getting tedious in OB and this was just a full descent into uselessness. Her leap to full DID didn't make sense narratively - she already faced her biggest truth before it had progressed this far (murdering both her parents), but it somehow got worse for a much less serious revelation? This could have been a really huge reveal, but the way it played out in the books made it feel almost mundane. The reveal that she had bonded and killed another Cryptic was telegraphed extremely hard so we all knew it before she did, and then when she finally accepted it the reaction was essentially "oh". All that (extremely tedious) buildup for a revelation that didn't seem to impact the character, in contrast to previous revelations, just felt really wasted. I would have been far more satisfied if the "formless" stuff had actually gone to completion and Shallan just turned baddy by breaking her bond and killing Pattern. It would have fit better and would make her a much more interesting character, rather than the useless appendage that she was. That said, I do really enjoy Pattern, and the way he was reaching out to Wit to try and find a way to help her was really sweet and made me like him a lot more. Too bad he got stuck with a dud. Then there's Adolin. Adolin is the greatest of the greats, I love him to absolute bits. But before we get into how awesome he is we have to discuss his relationship with Shallan. Not only is was she tedious and grating the entire book, she serves absolutely zero narrative purpose in their mission in Shadesmar. She's a poor partner, treats Adolin terribly, has no redeeming qualities (like Kaladin is insanely flawed but is always striving to be better and do the right thing), and yet.. he still loves her like crazy? I get that he's an amazing person, but it doesn't add up at all. Their scenes together were cringy at best and undermined how great Adolin was with everything else. But, with that out of the way... God Adolin is just the best. All of his interactions with Kaladin and Bridge 4, Maya and Gallant, and Literally Everyone Else are just fantastic. I get a big dopey grin on my face every time we get POV from him, he's just the purest soul and I love it. Maya finally becoming more sapient and speaking was an extremely obvious outcome even since OB, but it didn't matter, because that climax was just fantastic regardless and provided really interesting context to past events. I'm looking forward to more from him very much, except that it means there'll be more Shallan. I'm kind of surprised to see so many people say there wasn't a "Sanderlanche" at the end of this book, I really felt like there was. Though maybe that's just because the emotional hits were so god drat punchy. The entire section for the retaking of the tower was just phenomenal and felt very chaotic. The death of Teft, even though it was kind of easy to see coming hit me like an absolute freight train. Just the personal feeling a loss as a reader was devastating, and then seeing the absolute depths of despair and loathing it drove Kaladin to was just heart-wrenching. There was a moment there where I was legitimately thinking that Odium might have taken over Kaladin (he was describe as glowing yellow-white at some point, I forget the exact wording). The bloody murder of the pursuer was epic, but without the charateristic fist-pumping excitement of previous finale's, just because of how utterly grim it was. The follow up to his reuniting with Tien had me sobbing like a baby. But Navani's part in it, with Moash and Raboniel, absolutely did give that fist-pumping excitement. Raboniel turning to help Navani in the end, out of either her respect for Navani as a person or just her desire for the war to be ended felt absolutely great, as well as Moash - the absolute greatest piece to ever exist - getting some well deserved brutalizing was immensely satisfying. Then Taravangien killing Rayze was a total shock - for a moment it seemed like it could be a good thing given his previous chapters, but his subsequent interactions with Cultivation and Wit were absolutely chilling. I don't know what to expect from him and it's terrifying. I love it. The "reveal" of Kelsier as Thaidakar was interesting, though I think it was already kind of spelled out since WoR (Iyatil is one of the masked people from Mistborn era 2, or that's how I read it), but it was nice to see it spelled out. I wonder what he's really up to. Their behavior (or just Mraize's behavior) seems a little too... obviously insidious which is giving me some disconnect with Kelsier as a character, hopefully we get a better sense of their motivations soon. I have a ton more thoughts but this post is way too long already. TL;DR, I loved it. There were a couple warts but it felt like a great continuation of the series, with an expansion of the current world as well as the wider cosmere, as well as some great character moments (granted, less significant than previous books). Super stoked to see what comes next.
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Jan 14, 2021 08:24
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Taffer posted:Just finished RoW (late, I know), finally catching up on this thread after not looking at it since the preview chapters started coming out. Interested to see all the negative reactions, overall I absolutely loved the book. Gonna post a bunch of thoughts, mostly about narrative. Thaidakar Vasher mentioned this earlier in the book about how entities like him become more Sprenlike as they 'age' getting obsessed with certain aspects of their personality. I'm thinking Kelsier's basically become a "gently caress those in power at any cost" spren with how focused he was on killing the lord ruler/nobles before.
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Jan 14, 2021 08:40
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RoW and Mistborn spoilers: Kelsier was always a bit on the psychopath spectrum, he absolutely enjoyed brutally murdering nobles for example. It's just that in the setting he was in, his actions made him a hero. Vin pointed some of this out at the end when she died and met him in Secret History. His motivations were never really "pure". I'm very excited to see what role he will play going forward.
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Jan 14, 2021 09:53
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Taffer posted:Just finished RoW (late, I know), finally catching up on this thread after not looking at it since the preview chapters started coming out. This was a big complaint for me and Sanderson talks about it in one of his recent videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxV20CVtYJo&t=4436s It's fascinating that this was flagged in the process and he talks about some of the changes he made to try and address this feedback. In my view (having only read the book once and yet to re-read it again), I don't think he did enough to fully address it, but it does mean that the reaction to the flashbacks surprises him. The whole interview with his editorial team that is worth watching in full if you're interested in his process (he released everything as a Dawnshard Kickstarter perk but this video summarizes the process and also shares some screenshots of work-in-process documents from RoW).
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Jan 14, 2021 12:05
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socialsecurity posted:Thaidakar Vasher mentioned this earlier in the book about how entities like him become more Sprenlike as they 'age' getting obsessed with certain aspects of their personality. I'm thinking Kelsier's basically become a "gently caress those in power at any cost" spren with how focused he was on killing the lord ruler/nobles before. Torrannor posted:RoW and Mistborn spoilers: Kelsier was always a bit on the psychopath spectrum, he absolutely enjoyed brutally murdering nobles for example. It's just that in the setting he was in, his actions made him a hero. Vin pointed some of this out at the end when she died and met him in Secret History. His motivations were never really "pure". I'm very excited to see what role he will play going forward. I absolutely believe what someone else in this thread has already said - Kelsier attacked and dethroned god on his own world. Now he's going to attack and dethrone god on ALL the worlds. I really think that's his motivation and his ultimate goal - no more gods. Gods are just nobles with power.
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Jan 14, 2021 16:29
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Lucas Archer posted:I absolutely believe what someone else in this thread has already said - Kelsier attacked and dethroned god on his own world. Now he's going to attack and dethrone god on ALL the worlds. I really think that's his motivation and his ultimate goal - no more gods. Gods are just nobles with power. They were also, unknowingly, an agent of Ruin and being steered towards his fight with the Lord Ruler. So there's probably some level of taint on him even more than whatever lingering effects he might be experiencing from holding Preservation temporarily, given that he just wasn't suited to that shard. That taint would affect him more and more over time so yeah I could see him turning more "I'm from
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Jan 14, 2021 16:37
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personally i still have hope that Kelsier has some more noble goal -- maybe it IS to "kill" the gods, but it does look like we're about to move into the Galactic War era of the cosmere and those gods are going to be responsible for untold millions of deaths. i like imagining him more as "bad guy who is technically on the same side as the good guys", like he was in Mistborn (but moreso), than him being a pure antagonist that's been so warped by time that he no longer can control that sociopathy. there's also the other option i think might be possible, which is that the Ghostbloods aren't just his thing and his control is limited, so some of their perceived Badness is more "well, what can you do, I'm on another planet trying to direct things as best I can and there are different factions, gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet"
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Jan 14, 2021 16:47
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Mostly unrelated, and I've only read the Stormlight books: Is there a reason they're called the ghostbloods? Or did they just like workshop up a cool-sounding name offscreen?
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Jan 14, 2021 16:59
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a foolish pianist posted:Mostly unrelated, and I've only read the Stormlight books: Is there a reason they're called the ghostbloods? Or did they just like workshop up a cool-sounding name offscreen? we don't know for sure yet, it may be a wry reference to kelsier's existential state but for all we know they existed well before him
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Jan 14, 2021 17:01
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a foolish pianist posted:Mostly unrelated, and I've only read the Stormlight books: Is there a reason they're called the ghostbloods? Or did they just like workshop up a cool-sounding name offscreen? Because he's a cognitive shadow held together by hemalurgy, or a ghost by blood magic
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Jan 14, 2021 17:09
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big mean giraffe posted:Because he's a cognitive shadow held together by hemalurgy, or a ghost by blood magic  That's actually pretty clever...e; Apparently there's some interesting WOB on it: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/361-skyward-pre-release-ama/#e11488: quote:Q:"Ghostbloods" is an interesting name to me. Is that a name that originated on Roshar or somewhere else? Does the group have to do either with ghosts or blood? Or is it more a metaphorical name? and https://wob.coppermind.net/events/100-rbooks-ama-2015/#e3585 quote:Q: If Kelsier (when Vin knew him) were to join one of the Rosharan secret societies, which one would he choose? Sab669 fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Jan 14, 2021 |
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Jan 14, 2021 17:11
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How did I miss that Kelsier leads the ghostbloods?
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Jan 14, 2021 17:13
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mewse posted:How did I miss that Kelsier leads the ghostbloods? It's OK, I was reading the new posts this morning too and I was like, "Wait what the HELL?" and had to go Coppermind it 
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Jan 14, 2021 17:15
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a foolish pianist posted:Mostly unrelated, and I've only read the Stormlight books: Is there a reason they're called the ghostbloods? Or did they just like workshop up a cool-sounding name offscreen? If you don't mind big Mistborn spoilers, the very name made some people think that Kelsier might be involved. Of the three magic systems on Scadrial (the world Mistborn is set in), the unambiguously evil one is called hemalurgy, and it has blood in it's name. We also learned that the secondary protagonist of the first Mistborn book managed to hang around as a cognitive shadow in the cognitive realm (shadesmar) after he was killed. And we learned it's possible to use hemalurgy to get a new body, and that he had done just that. So he was a ghost who had used blood magic to get a physical body again. Couple this with the fact that the highest ranking member of the Ghostbloods is a Scadrian (the mask is the giveaway, although we only learned of her people in Mistborn book 5), it made it just even more likely that this is a Scadrian organization. And it's certainly one that one could imagine Kelsier being the leader of. mewse posted:How did I miss that Kelsier leads the ghostbloods? It's not explicitly spelled out, but in RoW, Mraize says that Thaikadar is suffering from a similar ailment as Kalak. Wit also calls him "Lord of Scars", and threatens him to keep out of Rosharan affairs, lest he (Wit) will "come over there and slap [him] (Thaikadar) around again". Now, who is the only person we know of that has been slapped around by Wit, who famously can't hurt living humans? A certain dead somebody trapped in the Well of Ascension perhaps? Torrannor fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Jan 14, 2021 |
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Jan 14, 2021 17:15
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Sab669 posted:It's OK, I was reading the new posts this morning too and I was like, "Wait what the HELL?" and had to go Coppermind it lmao we definitely talked about it extensively in this very thread
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Jan 14, 2021 17:19
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It took me so long to finish RoW there were like dozens of Unread pages for me to catch up on and I definitely didn't read all of them 
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Jan 14, 2021 17:28
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Slightly related, but off topic, is Hemalurgy specific to Scadriel or are they just the only ones to figure it out since they are all about metal? Like as far as I remember anyone can do it and there is no innate investiture needed by the user, they just need to know what to use and where to hit. Is it actually just some innate part of the cosmere?
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Jan 14, 2021 17:40
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Ethiser posted:Slightly related, but off topic, is Hemalurgy specific to Scadriel or are they just the only ones to figure it out since they are all about metal? Like as far as I remember anyone can do it and there is no innate investiture needed by the user, they just need to know what to use and where to hit. Is it actually just some innate part of the cosmere? [putting spoilers around the mistborn era 2 content below since i know at least one thread regular is still reading them, really don't read this discussion if you're worried about spoiling that] it's specific to Scadrial in that it's the magic system of Ruin, but it is theoretically usable anywhere if you have sufficient knowledge of how it works (stuff like placement of spikes is very, very specific and that knowledge was closely guarded and may currently be nearly nonexistent outside of Harmony's mind and kelsier and potentially spook if he's not dead and maybe some kandra), making for lots of scary potential but not a lot of people who could actually do it. it's not innate to the cosmere, so it's not like other Shards would just automatically know how it works and be able to do it on their own at will , but as we see in Mistborn Era 2,"Trell" is able to provide their godmetal to kandra to use as spikes with a unique effect eke out fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Jan 14, 2021 |
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Jan 14, 2021 18:03
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eke out posted:[putting spoilers around the mistborn era 2 content below since i know at least one thread regular is still reading them, really don't read this discussion if you're worried about spoiling that] To further expand, here is the blurb from coppermind regarding this: quote:Hemalurgy can be used anywhere in the Cosmere,[22][23] as long as there is an Intent to create a Hemalurgic spike,[24] and it has indeed shown up at least once on a different Shardworld, though in a subtle way.[25] Hemalurgy can also steal attributes from other forms of Investiture.[26] https://coppermind.net/wiki/Hemalurgy the actual page so you can check WoB references, sometimes I find little interesting nuggets in the actual statements he made.
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Jan 14, 2021 18:35
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big mean giraffe posted:To further expand, here is the blurb from coppermind regarding this: oh yeah that's also a good point, you can't just accidentally discover it since Intent is required, further limiting the chances that anyone not intimately familiar with some very closely-guarded knowledge from Scadrial would ever learn it
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Jan 14, 2021 18:42
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That an in-cosmere book spells it all out though is really interesting, what happens if/when someone brings it offworld
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Jan 14, 2021 18:46
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Okay, so, Shallan RoW who did Formless end up being? was it just ... Shallan herself?
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Jan 14, 2021 19:38
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