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B-Nasty posted:For fun, I like to read the Questions and Reviews sections on HomeDepot.com/Lowes.com for electrical equipment like panels and breakers. Some of the questions are obviously from people in so far over their heads it's scary. It's the Dunning-Kruger effect applied to lethal and fire-starting danger. Reminds me of this one I saw the other day:   
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Jan 5, 2021 22:37
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OMG, that's from the manufacturer? I mean, he didn't specify what the Romex was being used for, but come on...
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Jan 5, 2021 22:45
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Hubis posted:So I have one of these (an extension outlet that is too low, not the smoldering remains of a receptacle) that I think they put in to power a defunct fountain or something, but which they placed way too low and so it likewise trips every time we get a heavy rain -- although it may also be the holes they screwed into the plastic housing to hang a timer off of It's going to be up 12-14", with an in-use box properly oriented with liquidtite (gray flexible NM conduit) everywhere above ground, properly terminated into the in use box/cover. Underground? I don't know yet because I don't know what I'm dealing with. I THINK the landscape light next to it is being used as a j-box, in which case this is easy, I'll run new UF and probably seal the conduit underground because I doubt I'll make it up the landscape light. (conduit is not for waterproofing, it's for protecting it against getting hit with a weedwhacker, etc). If I have to deal with a splice underground it will be done with one of the usual suspects of direct burial splice kits to extend enough to make it to the new box. What will I mount it on? I have no idea yet. Ugly and functional is a piece of 4x4 pressure treated. But I think I might have a piece of stone (or maybe I'll need two) I can use that would make for a solid place to attach and match better with the rest of the bed.
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Jan 5, 2021 23:10
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I've been putting off replacing it because I'm not quite sure what the best way to go about extending the run up like 8-12" would be. It comes out of the ground in non-metallic conduit but I'm not sure if it's actually conduit all the way or if it's just buried UF.
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Brace yourselves for a bumbling idiot about to make a fool out of themselves: This is the problem. It's the only outlet in the entire room. It's also hanging out the wall, which really helps tie the room together. Because of my stupidity of daisy chaining extension cords and then trying to run a 2000W electric heater (on top of all my computer equipment and phone chargers) I've done a fair bit of damage to it. I don't know whether I've hosed the wires up behind the socket or damaged just the socket itself, but the electric heater would cause my entire room to smell of fish which originates from this outlet. As someone who knows nothing about electricity, intuition tells me the wires leading to this socket aren't rated for the amount of power I was drawing through them, which caused them to heat up and melt the plastic socket?   The new outlet I bought. If there's anything you can't make out because it's illegible, let me know and I'll post it. I'm scratching my head over how this works, is it as simple as installing it and then I get two extra sockets that are capable of drawing 13A each? So I can have one dedicated socket for my electric heater, and the other for my computer / phone chargers? All without risking an electric fire or melting more poo poo in the walls? Or is it redundant since it depends on the wire actually carrying the electricity to this socket (which based off of electric heater + computer causing stuff to melt, isn't adequate)? The socket seems pretty straight forward, it has one terminal each for live and neutral, and two earth terminals on the back. To split the single earth wire into two, can I get one of those plastic junctions(??) that let you feed one wire in and clamp it down with a screw. The ones that are plastic, I don't know what they're called. Edit: do I need to get a faceplate or whatever they're called to mount this properly, or can I just drill it into the wall and hold it that way. This house is hosed so I don't really care about aesthetic. Qubee fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Jan 6, 2021 |
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Jan 6, 2021 10:05
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The smell is almost certainly caused by the heater itself and is a sign of thermal breakdown. Could also be pinched cable insulation burning or something similar. Does it happen with the heater plugged in elsewhere in the house? Open up the plug top on the heater and have a look inside to see if the fuse carrier has any signs of damage. E: removed install advice until the smell is identified kecske fucked around with this message at 10:51 on Jan 6, 2021 |
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Jan 6, 2021 10:45
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Qubee posted:The new outlet I bought. If there's anything you can't make out because it's illegible, let me know and I'll post it. I'm scratching my head over how this works, is it as simple as installing it and then I get two extra sockets that are capable of drawing 13A each? So I can have one dedicated socket for my electric heater, and the other for my computer / phone chargers? All without risking an electric fire or melting more poo poo in the walls? Or is it redundant since it depends on the wire actually carrying the electricity to this socket (which based off of electric heater + computer causing stuff to melt, isn't adequate)? Ring mains are a fun copper saving can of worms. In theory, both sides of the ring can carry 2/3 of the load and since electricity naturally takes the path of least resistance this means the current naturally divides itself between both legs of the ring. That is the theory, in practice if one leg of the ring has a higher resistance, perhaps due to a loose connection somewhere, then the current is going to try to flow down one leg of the ring. Add to that, your outlet could be a spur off the ring, it could have just one line/neutral/ground instead of 2 for each leg of the ring, exactly how many wires are in the box? Your breaker is likely 30a or 32a with 2.5mm^2 wire and 2/3 if 30 is 20 which is less than 13 + 13 for two outlets. if it's a spur with only one line neutral and ground wire then no, you can't have two outlets capable carrying 13a each. If the outlet is not a spur and has both legs of the ring connected then in theory you could have 2 outlets both supplying 13a. In practice, if you already have funny smells with a single 13a outlet then a pair of 13a outlets is unlikely to improve the situation. Tl;dr version: you have a fault somewhere causing the fish smell, it could be the heater itself, the wiring in that box, the wiring in another box, or even just the outlet itself however this is the least likely scenario. Honestly you probably need to hire a pro to be able to measure the resistance on both legs of the ring and find out exactly where your problem is coming from.
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Jan 6, 2021 12:13
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kecske posted:The smell is almost certainly caused by the heater itself and is a sign of thermal breakdown. Could also be pinched cable insulation burning or something similar. Does it happen with the heater plugged in elsewhere in the house? Open up the plug top on the heater and have a look inside to see if the fuse carrier has any signs of damage. The smell was identified, I went and forked out the big bucks on a brand new electric heater because I had the same thought process as you (this was an easier choice as the electric heater I was using before was decades old and practically falling apart). And then I realised it wasn't the heater, as the smell still happened, so I figured it was one of the daisy chained extension cords. Wasn't that either. Finally got around to rearranging furniture to hunt down the wall socket and saw it hanging out and the strongest smell of fish ever. There's absolutely zero smell when I've got my normal stuff plugged in (computer and phone charger). But as soon as I plug the electric heater in and turn it on, the smell gradually gets stronger over the course of five minutes and going anywhere near the socket just gets you hit with a disgusting fish smell, but it'll waft throughout the room too. Not Wolverine posted:Tl;dr version: you have a fault somewhere causing the fish smell, it could be the heater itself, the wiring in that box, the wiring in another box, or even just the outlet itself however this is the least likely scenario. Honestly you probably need to hire a pro to be able to measure the resistance on both legs of the ring and find out exactly where your problem is coming from. Cheers for the info in the beginning of your post. I'm definitely in way over my head. I want to hire a professional but 1) I'm unemployed 2) this isn't even my house, I just live with extended family and 3) it's the middle-east, so I'll either get some dodgy snake oil salesman who will just make the wiring worse, or pay an exorbitant amount on someone willing to do the job right. I'm just gonna return this socket and electric heater and deal with a cold bedroom. Not worth the headache. This house is the pinnacle of jank and I can't wait to move out. Qubee fucked around with this message at 12:19 on Jan 6, 2021 |
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Jan 6, 2021 12:14
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So let's start off easy. You have a damaged outlet which needs repair. Can you take a picture of your breaker box? Did you buy the noncontact voltage tester? Do you have permission from your landlord to work on this? Is it even legal in your country to DIY electrical?
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Jan 6, 2021 16:02
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Qubee posted:Cheers for the info in the beginning of your post. I'm definitely in way over my head. I want to hire a professional but 1) I'm unemployed 2) this isn't even my house, I just live with extended family and 3) it's the middle-east, so I'll either get some dodgy snake oil salesman who will just make the wiring worse, or pay an exorbitant amount on someone willing to do the job right. I can understand the unemployed non-home owner argument for DIY, this is probably do able but at the same time sometimes you have to spend money to not burn your house down.
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Jan 6, 2021 17:01
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Unsure if this belongs in this thread, or the Home thread. I was wondering if anyone could tell me if this is a thing that exists (or is even possible): I have two cut-in boxes, each with two switches; one by my front door, and one in the middle of the living room. All four switches are normal 2-way switches, each is the only switch for the light it controls. The switches for the living room lights are the pair in the middle of the living room, so I would like to add switches by the front-door to be able to turn on the lights upon entering my house. Since I just bought this house, I'm trying to save money, so I don't really want to rewire for a 3-way switch. Are there "wireless" switches I could install to keep the 2-way wiring, but effectively turn it into a 3-way setup? I've googled around and found "wireless 3-way switches", but I'm confused as to whether they actually do what I want. Ideally, I'd like to use the power to the existing switch box so that the new "wireless" one doesn't need batteries and it would be nice if they fit into standard face plates. I think I'm mostly overwhelmed because it's hard to tell if the search terms I'm using are correct. Like, I don't need smart home compatibility. I do not want anything that's controlling an outlet accessory. I just want a switch I can put into an existing switch box that will control another switch without having to run additional wiring. Is this possible? Are there specific terms or details I should look for in product listings that will help me know if it fulfills what I'm looking for?
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Jan 8, 2021 03:46
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You want something like this basically you'll mount the power control unit where the existing switch you want to make 3-way is, then mount the remote switch near the front door, or replace the existing box with a 3-gang and add the remote in next to those two switches.
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Jan 8, 2021 04:04
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Is anyone willing to walk me through wiring a couple of 3-way switches and two or three ceiling lights or know a good tutorial/video? I think I understand the basic concept but I'm kind of confused about how to use 3 wire correctly.
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Jan 8, 2021 04:42
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Seeing it clearly presented as a logic circuit instead was what made it click for me.
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Jan 8, 2021 04:53
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shame on an IGA posted:Seeing it clearly presented as a logic circuit instead was what made it click for me. Yep this is exactly it — no one ever draws it as a loving circuit and it's that simple — 2x SPSTs in series.
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Jan 8, 2021 05:14
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Yeah I get that part, I don't understand how to correctly use wire that has 2 hots. I know people usually just use another white wire between the switches and mark it, but that's not allowed where I live. E: I know where the electricity goes, I don't know where the actual wires go. BonerGhost fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Jan 8, 2021 |
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Jan 8, 2021 05:34
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Use three-conductor wire, 14/3, or 12/3, and cap the white, or use it to bring the neutral from incoming wire to outgoing. That means that if one box has the out wire for the light, and power in, you'll have to run an additional 14/2 or 12/2 between boxes just for the power wire. I think the code change to disallow reidentifying small conductors was dumb as gently caress, for this use case specifically, it buys you nothing safety wise
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Jan 8, 2021 05:50
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Elviscat posted:You want something like this basically you'll mount the power control unit where the existing switch you want to make 3-way is, then mount the remote switch near the front door, or replace the existing box with a 3-gang and add the remote in next to those two switches. I'd just recommend https://www.amazon.com/Lutron-Wireless-Lighting-P-PKG1W-WH-Assistant/dp/B00JJY0S4G Tecnically it's smart home but it's just a dimmer + a wireless third switch on a 10+year battery.
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Jan 8, 2021 08:46
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BonerGhost posted:Yeah I get that part, I don't understand how to correctly use wire that has 2 hots. I know people usually just use another white wire between the switches and mark it, but that's not allowed where I live. The section between the switches is the only place you need 3 conductor, use red for one and black for the other on the side of the switch that has two screws. Doesn't matter which is which. Then in the box that has external power connect that hot to the single screw side of the switch and in the box that has a run to the lights connect that hot to the single-screw side of the switch.
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Jan 8, 2021 13:32
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I have recently moved into a new townhouse (first ones to live in this apartment). I have a new samsung top load washing machine which makes the lights flicker every time it agitates. The washer will do a half turn in one direction, then the other, repeat till the cycle is done. Every time it accelerates in one direction the lights dim for a split second and goes back to normal. This is the only appliance in the place that does it. Every light bulb connected to our panel will do this. I replaced a few of the bulbs with some philips hue's and I noticed that the hue's didn't flicker. I called the builder back in for warranty work ( I removed the hue bulbs before they showed up) and when they saw it they said this is common when you have cheap bulbs. They gave me a box of 4 new bulbs and I put them into a few fixtures. Sure enough these bulbs weren't flickering--even when in the same fixture with the original flickering bulbs. Something about it just doesn't sit right with me still. Is it normal that some LED light bulbs are so cheap that they can't handle voltage dips when a motor spins on? My stuff still hasn't arrived from the moving company yet so I haven't been able to use my kilowatt meter or my multimeter to monitor voltage drops at the appliance or fixtures.
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Jan 9, 2021 00:02
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In my experience, yes cheap LEDs are more sensitive to voltage. That being said, I wouldn't expect a washer to cause that. It's possible you have a loose connection, like a main panel lug didn't get tightened at installation.
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Jan 9, 2021 01:13
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I've been wanting to ask a similar question too, except our house was built in 1994 by Beazer (yeah...), so standard cheap tract home builder quality. I had swapped to LEDs throughout pretty early on, although they already had them in a lot of the fixtures when we moved in. I already know that they didn't separate bedrooms in terms of wiring, and 3-4 of the breakers in the panel are simply mass labeled as "Lightning and General Outlets", but I notice that when my wife uses the hair dryer, or we use the vacuums, various lights will temporarily flicker, while our guest bathroom lights will dim slightly and then un-dim when the vacuum is done. When we first moved in, I'd usually see it especially when our old AC would kick on; it hasn't been as bad since we replaced the entire AC system, although the outdoor unit is variable speed so it starts up at 35% and I assume the reduced started loading is why the lights don't dim as much or at all. I've been debating whether to try and get an electrician to do an inspection/assessment.
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Jan 9, 2021 01:49
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angryrobots posted:In my experience, yes cheap LEDs are more sensitive to voltage. That being said, I wouldn't expect a washer to cause that. It's possible you have a loose connection, like a main panel lug didn't get tightened at installation. This is what google seems to say. The builder doesn't care enough to look at it more and im not sure I am bold enough to try and tighten panel lugs. Is this something I should worry about if I only plan on staying here 1-1.5 years while I house hunt?
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Jan 9, 2021 02:15
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knowonecanknow posted:This is what google seems to say. The builder doesn't care enough to look at it more and im not sure I am bold enough to try and tighten panel lugs. Is this something I should worry about if I only plan on staying here 1-1.5 years while I house hunt? Yeah, well after demonstrating with the LED bulbs for you, he has reinforced his preconceived notion. It's possible he's right about it, too If you don't see the issue with other high draw 120v appliances (microwave, toaster, vacuum), it's probably fine. If getting an electrician to check it over is not a financial hardship for your, it may be worth the peace of mind. Being that your problem is repeatable and consistent, it will be easy to check over compared to most troubleshooting issues which are intermittent. SourKraut posted:I've been wanting to ask a similar question too, except our house was built in 1994 by Beazer (yeah...), so standard cheap tract home builder quality. I had swapped to LEDs throughout pretty early on, although they already had them in a lot of the fixtures when we moved in. Sorta similar to the last reply. It can't hurt to get it looked at. Slight flicker on AC start up is pretty common, the rest of it less so. Though some folks are exceptionally sensitive to flickers and dims. It could be fine, it could be an early symptom of a bad connection.
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Jan 9, 2021 03:33
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Flickers and very-brief dims are pretty common, and LEDs make it really obvious. Now, if the dim lasts for more than 1/2 a second or so, or worse, lights get brighter at times, you need to have that checked out. In my testing, I've seen voltage sags of just a few volts (on 120v lines) enough to cause a noticeable (to me) flicker in LED bulbs. This is well below the 3-5% voltage drop allowance. Personally, I'm blaming it on old/undersized feeders and an oversubscribed transformer, but the POCO is likely going to blow you off unless you can get a 5%+ voltage drop at service entrance.
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Jan 9, 2021 04:10
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In this same line of questioning, I have lighting on my washing machine circuit that dims when the motor "pulses". But only the light on that circuit does - no other lighting. Incandescent bulbs. Anything to be done, or is that normal?
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Jan 9, 2021 06:53
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It's hard to say without troubleshooting with a multimeter. That being said, I think that per NEC, the laundry receptacles including the washer should be on their own circuit. Someone else can clarify, but I don't think lighting should be fed from that circuit.
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Jan 9, 2021 14:10
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I just had some work done in my house, mostly to turn one bedroom into two because I had more kids than I had bedrooms. Anyway the contractor added two new places for us to turn the upstairs hallway light on. Previously it was only a three way switch so you could turn it on at the top of the staircase and one in the dining room on the first floor. He completely removed the one at the top of the staircase and put one outside our bedroom and one outside the two new kids rooms for a total of three places to turn the hallway lights on from. The question I have is the empty plate at the top of the stairs is bothering me, and I would like to be able to turn it on from that one as well since if I'm going to take a shower upstairs I'd rather just flick the switch at the top of the stairs rather than having to go to the bedrooms. It's not a big house or anything but I'd rather have something there than a blank wall plate. I already have a Lutron Caseta setup in my house and my idea was to just install one of their on/off switches in one of the three spots and put their remote control in the blank plate spot but my contractor said it would have to be a three way on off switch. I can't tell if Lutron actually makes one of those, though. From Googling over the past hour they seem to call one of their on/off switches as "three way" but all that seems to mean is they are selling the included remote as acting like a three way. I believe I need an actual three way switch that has the extra wire in it. Does anyone know if this actually exists? edit: After even more searching, and having to resort to Youtube comments to figure this out, it appears as there is some obscure model; the Lutron PD-10NXD-WH, that does exactly this (works in an existing 3-way/4-way setup). The only issue is that it's a dimmer, and I do not want a dimmer (just an on/off switch). I tried to mess with the model numbers but can't seem to find an on/off version of the PD-10NXD-WH dimmer. Chumbawumba4ever97 fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Jan 10, 2021 |
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Jan 10, 2021 18:51
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If you go full Caseta on every switch in the circuit then it’s very easy; mixing and matching them into a circuit with mech switches is more aggravating. I converted a few three way switches in my house and I just picked one to put the physical switch in, and then shorted together the traveler in the other box, and put a Pico remote in.
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Jan 10, 2021 20:59
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angryrobots posted:The blue and yellow curved handled Klein strippers are worth the extra $7 imo. They are more comfortable. Finally got a chance to use this one, and it's amazing, thanks! Buying a non-lovely stripper made all my jobs like 10x easier. So my latest question in trying to rewire the switches and outlets in this old house: is there a good reason to turn a single 3-way switch into a single switch, i.e. to cap off the red traveler wire? I ask because I've been annoyed at the fact that I have to go all the way across the garage in the dark to turn on the garage light, and when I opened it up to replace it with a Decora switch, I discovered that it was a 3-way switch wired to a toggle switch. Today I finally put two and two together and realized that one of the switches outside the garage door that "didn't do anything" was actually the other 3-way switch. it's still wired as a 3-way switch (opened it up to confirm), but since the other one isn't, it can only turn off the garage light when it's on. So I want to convert the garage switch back to a 3-way switch, but wanted to make sure there wasn't a good reason it is the way it is. Can any of y'all think of such a reason? Or is it just whoever wired it up previously maybe only had toggle switches on hand when they had to replace the garage switch.
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Jan 10, 2021 23:54
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I bet they just had a toggle switch, if you have a meter you can ring the wires out to make sure they didn't use a traveler for something else dumb, or just put a three way in and see if it works.
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Jan 11, 2021 00:07
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H110Hawk posted:So let's start off easy. You have a damaged outlet which needs repair. Can you take a picture of your breaker box? Did you buy the noncontact voltage tester? Do you have permission from your landlord to work on this? Is it even legal in your country to DIY electrical?  Here it is, I've got no idea whether this is helpful or not. All the circuits have Arabic writing next to them so I've no idea which one handles my bedroom, but I figured I can ask to find out. So yeah, is it worth me going through with this single to double wall socket upgrade or is it pretty pointless.
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Jan 11, 2021 16:58
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What a poo poo show. I highly recommend not touching anything having to do with electrical in a place that had a panel that looks like that. The sheer carelessness demonstrated in that one photo insures that everything else has been shoddy work, so the implications of someone who doesn't know how to do this kind of work trying to get instructions over the internet and unfuck a bunch of unknown garbage is just too high risk for anyone here to be providing advice. Call someone who claims to do this type of work that also has liability insurance.
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Jan 11, 2021 17:06
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Motronic posted:What a poo poo show. Agreed. You're lucky because it's a modern breaker box that assuming things are wired correctly will break overcurrent and dead short conditions. You're unlucky because if you are a complete novice that is 100% time to call an electrician. My favorite is the red wire jaunting across the bus bar in the massive open knockouts. If you ever smell acrid burning (like plastic smoldering) go throw those bottom 3 breakers.
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Jan 11, 2021 18:03
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that's a single 100A 3 phase mcb e: that's really one of those 'the more you look at it the worse it gets' pictures. no earth fault protection, big gaping holes in the cover, unsecured wires draped all over. even if you abandon the socket idea my dude that whole thing really needs redoing from the ground up kecske fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Jan 11, 2021 |
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Jan 11, 2021 18:09
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You get what you pay for. Mentality over here is to get the job done as cheap as possible, hiring someone worth the price they charge for quality work doesn't register here. Like I said, this entire house is held together with duct tape and wishful thinking. Why pay £100 for the job when you can hire snake oil salesman electrician man with a cereal box qualification to do it for £20. It's not just electrical work either, it's everything from house extensions to driveway renovations. Get the cheapest guy in to do it and it all goes to poo poo after a year. I knew things were bad, but seeing the reaction of you lot makes me realise it's worse than I thought. So I'll just steer clear of this. I got clued into how stupid the wiring in the house is when I stumbled on this in the kitchen. Who needs morning coffee when the risk of death is just a brush away. Qubee fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Jan 11, 2021 |
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Jan 11, 2021 18:47
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Qubee posted:Why pay £100 for the job when you can hire snake oil salesman electrician man with a cereal box qualification to do it for £20. Around here, literally the law. In my area, you need a licensed electrician for most electrical work, and permits for a lot of it. Certain repairs/replacement can be done by homeowner and without permit in certain circumstances, but ONLY if the homeowner lives there... if it's a rental, gotta get someone qualified to do it. Landlord can't do janky poo poo to a rental unit, for exactly the reasons you suspect. Qubee posted:I knew things were bad, but seeing the reaction of you lot makes me realise it's worse than I thought. So I'll just steer clear of this. I got clued into how stupid the wiring in the house is when I stumbled on this in the kitchen. Who needs morning coffee when the risk of death is just a brush away. IIRC green/yellow is still ground/earth over in your side of the pond, so no worries that exposed wire won't hurt you. (edit: that's assuming anything is wired properly, so maybe don't assume that based on what you've posted) I mean, whatever is plugged in isn't properly grounded and certainly can hurt you, but the wire itself won't. DaveSauce fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Jan 11, 2021 |
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Jan 11, 2021 19:58
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here (UK, where I am and I assume you are? some commonwealth nations also use UK wiring regulations) from April this year (and every 5 years after) your landlord is legally obligated to have all the electrics tested and they must meet safety standards as set out in bs7671. I don't know if you know your landlord or get on with them at all but I'd request an EICR be carried out before them because that entire installation would definitely 100% be condemned
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Jan 11, 2021 21:56
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Qubee posted:I knew things were bad, but seeing the reaction of you lot makes me realise it's worse than I thought. So I'll just steer clear of this. I got clued into how stupid the wiring in the house is when I stumbled on this in the kitchen. Who needs morning coffee when the risk of death is just a brush away. I like how the ground wire is stripped like they considered hooking it up, but then decided grounds are for nerds.
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Jan 11, 2021 23:09
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Elviscat posted:I bet they just had a toggle switch, if you have a meter you can ring the wires out to make sure they didn't use a traveler for something else dumb, or just put a three way in and see if it works. Put in a 3-way, working so far, thanks!
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Jan 12, 2021 07:53
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floWenoL posted:Put in a 3-way, working so far, thanks! P.O.'s a lazy rear end in a top hat law working as usual!
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Jan 12, 2021 08:10
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