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Jeff Fatwood posted:I like the game. hosed up if true
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Jan 16, 2021 12:21
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cyberpunk is good
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Jan 16, 2021 12:28
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Rinkles posted:I thought combat in SR was utter crap Oh it was. I wasn't playing it for the intricately designed combat though. I was playing it to shoot dubstep at crowds and boss monsters.
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Jan 16, 2021 12:31
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I admit, despite what I already knew, the Schreir article and my distaste for crunch, this game has had me more engaged in its world, story and characters than any game in years. Been thoroughly enjoying what the devs had done with how much jerking around and mismanagement they went through. Came into the experience with mild distaste and left with a want to see if they can pull a No Man's Sky on this.
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Jan 16, 2021 12:42
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Rinkles posted:I thought combat in SR was utter crap My favorable memories of Saints Row Combat feel depends on how janky the enemies were being in it, and also how many thousand yard stare flashbacks I get to GTA San Andreas where you need to grind Desert Eagle skill for it to kill people when you shoot them in the face instead of doing 99.99% health damage on a headshot making me forgive Not GTA more. Which also makes the "Multiple headshots" of quoting you doubly relevant to the overall subject.
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Jan 16, 2021 12:47
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veni veni veni posted:After about 80 hours, all of the major quests (at least afaik of) done, and a notable chunk of side jobs, gigs, and police missions (there's still like 100 of them left lol) I decided to finish the main quest. Went with the Johnny ending, which was actually quite cool for the most part. But holy gently caress, the last part is either really poorly communicated or I am an idiot. Both are entirely possible. I went in fully planning on giving V her body back, But Alt indicates it's not possible, but then it is possible, I think? I dunno the way it was explained was super confusing. So it gives me 2 options. Go into the network or sit on the well and return to Vs body. The whole time I pick the "I'm not going to screw you over options" but she is always hostile and calling me a liar...ok. then I start crossing the bridge thinking I am giving V her body back by sending silverhand into the network. But V starts punching you and saying you double crossed her. I was like uhhh...Ok I guess I'll do the other option. Which panned out to Silverhand just taking over V's body which wasn't what I intended at all. The ending sequence was kind of neat if not too drawn out though. But I feel like the game did a really lovely job of conveying what the choice I was making actually was. What was confusing about it? 1. The Relic has hosed up V's body to the point where returning them to their body will result in V dying in around 6 months. 2. Whichever engram that stays behind will be absorbed into Alt, along with the other engrams currently kept by Arasaka, and will continue to survive as a part of her code on the other side of the Blackwall. 3. V or, in the ending option you went with, Johnny then decides whether to return V's body to them, or to go with Alt and live as part of her, with the epilogue dependent on what options you went with. I'm honestly baffled about how you were confused by that. Do you often get discombobulated when hearing words? Also, if the Boat Drinks quest with Kerry isn't loading, reload to the conversation with Kerry on the rooftop that unlocks Black Matter (and the expensive joytoys). You should randomly get a call from Kerry after a day or so, where he invites you to a boat ride. All 3 of my playthroughs have been with a female V, and the Kerry quest line and I have not had any issues with his series of quests.
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Jan 16, 2021 12:55
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https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1350328939378577413 This needs highlighting because it didn't hit me the first time but rereading it is just ... 
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Jan 16, 2021 13:14
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Imagine being a baby back bitch about hearing Polish spoken by Polish people in Poland tho
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Jan 16, 2021 13:20
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They're probably underpayed compared to other industries in Poland, but the numbers don't mean much without knowing what the cost of living over there is.
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Jan 16, 2021 13:24
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sean10mm posted:Imagine being a baby back bitch about hearing Polish spoken by Polish people in Poland tho They had company policy that stipulated everyone to speak english so that no one would be left out. If you're already being crunched and don't feel that you're contributing your 100% or feel that your work is suffering, it doesn't help or make you feel welcome when you don't even understand what your co-workers are talking about. They're probably not talking about you but the human mind isn't rational and when your self esteem is already taking a hit, you might start having other negative feelings like feeling you're unwelcome. What a lovely take.
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Jan 16, 2021 13:24
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Same story ever told of companies that come into unprecedented success. Huge infusion of money, leadership doesn't know how to scale up, project managers think they'll just run everything like before except with more people this time around, entire divisions are poorly run with no guiding oversight.
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Jan 16, 2021 13:24
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itry posted:They're probably underpayed compared to other industries in Poland, but the numbers don't mean much without knowing what the cost of living over there is. Very quick googling suggested that 700usd can cover rent if you live outside city center so add whatever expenses over that and you're not profiting at all.
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Jan 16, 2021 13:27
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A quick Google suggests that starting salaries for software development in Poland are around 1500€/month, so I really doubt that he got 700USD/month as a junior developer with testing experience, even in Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Jan 16, 2021 |
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Jan 16, 2021 13:34
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FAO Comte: it would be neat if ColdBlood had a visual effect when it's active, just a little thing like a glow on the edge of the screen or something. It'd enhance the feeling of "aw yeah now I have ColdBlood and you fools are going down"Andrast posted:idk, I think the combat is still pretty fun even if it easy. If nothing else, the skill trees for Witcher 3 are Swordfighting, Supplementing Swordfighting With Spells, and Supplementing Swordfighting With Potions. Cyberpunk has different combat options- Melee, Ranged, Hacking, Stealth- which allow you to mix things up a bit. I got bored of Hacking so now I charge around with an assault rifle firing homing poison bullets, so I'm going through essentially the same encounters but with a different feel. That helps keep combat fresh. What would keep it fresher is more enemy types that are more highly resistant to different things, like I've never seen a group of enemies and thought "ok these are Animals so I'd better do Y instead of my usual X because X is no good against them". There are perks to make you more effective against turrets and mechs, but how often are you really up against that kind of enemy compared to a human dude? I'd flood the map with mechs at high levels, turn the combat into Earth Defense Force
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Jan 16, 2021 13:36
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Yeah that's way too low. The minimum monthly wage in Poland, according to google and wikipedia, is 610 EUR (2,600 zloty) or ~800 USD, so, uhh, even if that's part time that's basically minimum wage. And developers are not making minimum wage, in Poland or elsewhere.
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Jan 16, 2021 13:38
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exquisite tea posted:Same story ever told of companies that come into unprecedented success. Huge infusion of money, leadership doesn't know how to scale up, project managers think they'll just run everything like before except with more people this time around, entire divisions are poorly run with no guiding oversight. Yeah, sad that it's such a stereotypical story. At this point I don't even feel motivated to finish this poo poo, maybe I'll take a stab at it next year when it's mostly patched. Given that this whole game was done by the seat of their pants, I'll be shocked if they have an actual plan for patching this mess. Maybe they'll turn it around in a year or two, most likely it'll be worked on until the company has had enough and they start a new project while quietly killing off any further expectations for cyberpunk.
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Jan 16, 2021 13:39
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Jeff Fatwood posted:Very quick googling suggested that 700usd can cover rent if you live outside city center so add whatever expenses over that and you're not profiting at all. It seems to be minimum wage or slightly above minimum wage. Yeah.
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Jan 16, 2021 13:39
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I don't really understand what's being said here. The reason you don't pay developers considerably below market rates is because if you do, nobody will apply for the job. I don't buy that they're regularly paying less than the rest of the industry in their country but are able to happily fill all their positions.
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Jan 16, 2021 13:40
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Chalks posted:I don't really understand what's being said here. The reason you don't pay developers considerably below market rates is because if you do, nobody will apply for the job. I don't buy that they're regularly paying less than the rest of the industry in their country but are able to happily fill all their positions. Yeah I could understand an exploited fresh/junior developer on say 1200 USD a month for a fresh grad. In the Czech Republic (which isn't Poland but it's roughly the same wage-wise these days) that's about the lowest you see advertised anywhere for a developer position. The typical junior rate is more like 2000 a month though. Game testers though, if they're working part-time I could see on that salary.
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Jan 16, 2021 13:44
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Chalks posted:I don't really understand what's being said here. The reason you don't pay developers considerably below market rates is because if you do, nobody will apply for the job. I don't buy that they're regularly paying less than the rest of the industry in their country but are able to happily fill all their positions. Big names actually get away with exploiting their workers for that reason. Allegedly, Pixar is or was one of the worst paying animation studios because so many people were eager to apply to work there. That CDPR figure seems really bad though.
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Jan 16, 2021 13:44
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Chalks posted:I don't really understand what's being said here. The reason you don't pay developers considerably below market rates is because if you do, nobody will apply for the job. I don't buy that they're regularly paying less than the rest of the industry in their country but are able to happily fill all their positions. This has the same energy as all of the people saying Jason Schreier was bribing people to say that the crunch was lovely. Just outright denial of reality.
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Jan 16, 2021 13:46
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The gaming industry is infamous for underpaying its workers. It's the reason for all the "they should unionize" talk.
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Jan 16, 2021 13:47
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what if pro wrestlers and game industry workers unionized together?
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Jan 16, 2021 13:49
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It's literally the minimum wage, or less than the contemporary minimum wage though. Underpaying is one thing but that's pretty bad. I mean even workers in loving Polish Lidl (German take on walmart) get paid ~1300 USD.
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Jan 16, 2021 13:49
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How can you read the Games forum with any regularity and still reflexively think "well there's just no way a developer could treat its employees that lovely."
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Jan 16, 2021 13:51
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Eau de MacGowan posted:what if pro wrestlers and game industry workers unionized together? Sure. Maybe the wrestlers could put the execs in headlocks while the devs hit them with folding chairs.
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Jan 16, 2021 13:51
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exquisite tea posted:How can you read the Games forum with any regularity and still reflexively think "well there's just no way a developer could treat its employees that lovely." You really want to play your game guilt free is how.
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Jan 16, 2021 13:53
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Article says dude was proted from QA tester. QA gets poo poo on by everyone in this industry. Wouldnt be surprised that they offered him significantly less than they would have an outside hire for the job.
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Jan 16, 2021 13:56
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I'm still in disbelief how the same developer that has been consistently making massive leaps in quality with every new game they released, which culminated in the making of one of the best games of all time, sharted out this mess as their very next project.
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Jan 16, 2021 13:56
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exquisite tea posted:How can you read the Games forum with any regularity and still reflexively think "well there's just no way a developer could treat its employees that lovely." I'm not saying "why would they treat employees badly" I'm saying "why would you apply for a job that pays $700/month when all other jobs pay twice as much?" It's not like I'm under some illusion about how capitalism works. If it's possible to get good developers for $700/month then everyone would pay that much and that would be the average salary. I can't believe that having "Developer at CDPR" on your CV is worth a 50% pay cut for multiple years. Unless the conversation we're having is "this is why the game is so buggy, all their testers are the bottom of the barrel because they don't pay enough to get the real talent" which which case, sure, seems dumb - but I'm not sure that's being implied here. Chalks fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Jan 16, 2021 |
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Jan 16, 2021 13:56
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itry posted:Sure. Maybe the wrestlers could put the execs in headlocks while the devs hit them with folding chairs. Manager: So you're going to need to be working more unpaid overtime in order to deliver this product. *stone cold's music hits*
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Jan 16, 2021 13:57
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Chalks posted:I'm not saying "why would they treat employees badly" I'm saying "why would you apply for a job that pays $700/month when all other jobs pay twice as much?" It might have been to the dude since it sounds like it was his first dev job. Gotta get experience. Capitalism blows.
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Jan 16, 2021 13:59
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Jack Trades posted:I'm still in disbelief how the same developer that has been consistently making massive leaps in quality with every new game they released, which culminated in the making of one of the best games of all time, sharted out this mess as their very next project. Turns out you can fail upwards when you stack enough burnt out low income workers underneath you.
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Jan 16, 2021 13:59
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Chalks posted:I can't believe that having "Developer at CDPR" on your CV is worth a 50% pay cut for multiple years. Because it's a "famous" company doing something interesting. There are tons and tons of people who have done exactly this, and it's not just in video games. If you're a Blizzard or Pixar, you can pay people almost anything and you'll still have piles and piles of resumes to look through. It's just the reality of the situation and has been for quite some time
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Jan 16, 2021 14:00
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Jeff Fatwood posted:Turns out you can fail upwards when you stack enough burnt out low income workers underneath you. Product quality integer overflow.
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Jan 16, 2021 14:00
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afflictionwisp posted:It might have been to the dude since it sounds like it was his first dev job. Gotta get experience. Capitalism blows. Yeah, that seems more likely. There's a difference between average dev salary and average first year zero experience dev salary and it could easily be half.
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Jan 16, 2021 14:00
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Chalks posted:I'm not saying "why would they treat employees badly" I'm saying "why would you apply for a job that pays $700/month when all other jobs pay twice as much?" They aren't bottom of the barrel. They want to make games because they're "passionate" about games. That word gets thrown around a lot to explain why crunch is, in fact, voluntary. hooman posted:Manager: So you're going to need to be working more unpaid overtime in order to deliver this product. Cena busts in through the wall. Cue trumpets. itry fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Jan 16, 2021 |
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Jan 16, 2021 14:02
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Jack Trades posted:I'm still in disbelief how the same developer that has been consistently making massive leaps in quality with every new game they released, which culminated in the making of one of the best games of all time, sharted out this mess as their very next project. From every article I've read thus far, it's pretty evident that the people running CDPR started believing their own hype somewhere along the way, and somehow managed to both swell their ranks (and assumed the same management styles and techniques used on previous smaller teams would work on the bigger teams) and still not have enough people to get the game done within a realistic timeframe.
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Jan 16, 2021 14:05
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Testers invariably get shat on in the industry.
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Jan 16, 2021 14:08
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itry posted:They aren't bottom of the barrel. They want to make games because they're "passionate" about games. That word gets thrown around alot to explain why crunch is, in fact, voluntary. I dunno about crunch being the same thing. There's an implication that it's just part of the game development process but in reality it's a side effect of incompetence - and not on the part of the people forced to do the crunching. The salary is there up front for people to make an informed decision about.
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Jan 16, 2021 14:13
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