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Yes, but nobody is forcing them to go anywhere. Some are choosing to do so and that makes Marco real mad. It's the same as Mars. The new planets make living as they were obsolete.
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Jan 19, 2021 22:04
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Genocide isn't just death camps and Einsatzgruppen it's also destroying a culture/way of life even if the individual human beings or their descendants aren't killed. A big part of many historical genocides was along those lines, e.g. the Dawes Act and boarding schools and all that to "whiten up" the Native Americans and destroy their culture without mass graves. Cyn says as much right on screen, a lot of Belters can't survive a planetary gravity well even with the drugs etc. and the ones that do wouldn't be Belters anymore, the culture is inherently wrapped up in living in space. Forcing all the Belters to make themselves and their children wellwalla (in the literal sense), and even then starving the ones that can't make the move, is definitely genocide. Not really an intentional one, just unprecedented historical circumstances and a paradigm shift, but it's a real problem. Someone should probably try and resolve that tension before some nutcase does something silly.
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Jan 19, 2021 22:06
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I still don't get the whole "belters will all die out" because it still seems more efficient to do a lot of stuff in space rather than shipping across multiple solar systems (Also I assume "narc" was a jab at Mr. Belters Uber Alles working with the violently reactionary faction of Mars)
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Jan 19, 2021 22:09
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No one is forcing belters to live in a gravity well. Also, its weird to not want your children to grow up in better conditions that you are in simply because they wouldn't be belters. You can still live in space once you are formed and even spend a good chunk of time in low or no G while growing. Just let them do it in a way so they dont get hosed up anatomy and physiology that negatively impacts their health and limit choices.
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Jan 19, 2021 22:10
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StashAugustine posted:I still don't get the whole "belters will all die out" because it still seems more efficient to do a lot of stuff in space rather than shipping across multiple solar systems There'd be no need for water/air mining and transport. Likewise soil and food could be grown locally insted of relying on Earth/Ganymede. That's got to be a pretty major chunk of all space industry. Yeah there'd still be loads of space travel, but it'd more like emigrating to a new country, not really people living in space.
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Jan 19, 2021 22:14
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Eiba posted:I assumed they meant narcissist, but I may be wrong about that. Oh yeah narcissist makes sense. I was trying to figure out when he was telling cops where to find local drug dealers. I didn't mean to imply that was wholly in response to your post either, my bad there, just a good highlight in the moment regarding a lot of Marco takes. Azhais posted:Moving from the belts to a planet isn't genocide any more than me moving from Minnesota to Idaho would be. At best it's a cultural demise. Either way it's making life better for the next generations You should really reconsider this take because it's identical to a lot of the justifications used to forgive the atrocities committed against US Indigenous peoples. 'Cultural demise' is also literally the textbook, United Nations, definition of Genocide, and forced relocation or extermination via neglect are recognized acts of Genocide. Marco is a sociopath with a Messiah Complex. He desires to ensure that his ethnic group survives eradication. These two things are not mutually exclusive, and only one of them is bad. Feel free to just swap ethnic group with the word culture here because in this instance--and most instances people use the words--they are literally identical in terms of meaning.
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Jan 19, 2021 22:18
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The only thing left to do in space is move things between planets really, there's no minerals worth mining in space when you've got hundreds of Iluses with their bullshit alien absurdities like continental plates made out of pure lithium. Mars' terraforming is over so that's a huge chunk of the demand for volatiles (ice mining) gone too, when you've got hundreds/thousands of habitable planets full of air and water and alien ruins there's not many economic reasons to keep maintaining cramped bunkers around Jupiter. The people who live in said cramped bunkers might think otherwise but the Inner corporations funding it all don't have any reason to be there anymore.
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Jan 19, 2021 22:19
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StashAugustine posted:I still don't get the whole "belters will all die out" because it still seems more efficient to do a lot of stuff in space rather than shipping across multiple solar systems It's a potentially real issue where humanity continues to be planet-centric and anyone who lives any other way is hosed forever. How do you ensure the people working on the margins of humanity aren't just eternally oppressed? Personally, I think communism is a better solution than genocide and banning planetary settlement entirely, but Marco seems to disagree. Edit: Crazycryodude posted:The only thing left to do in space is move things between planets really, there's no minerals worth mining in space when you've got hundreds of Iluses with their bullshit alien absurdities like continental plates made out of pure lithium. Mars' terraforming is over so that's a huge chunk of the demand for volatiles (ice mining) gone too, when you've got hundreds/thousands of habitable planets full of air and water and alien ruins there's not many economic reasons to keep maintaining cramped bunkers around Jupiter. The people who live in said cramped bunkers might think otherwise but the Inner corporations funding it all don't have any reason to be there anymore. The lithium planet is special because there aren't really lithium asteroids either. If there was a lithium asteroid belt instead of a lithium planet, that would be objectively better, for industrial/development purposes. Eiba fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Jan 19, 2021 |
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Jan 19, 2021 22:20
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Sab Sabbington posted:Marco is a sociopath with a Messiah Complex. He desires to ensure that his ethnic group survives eradication. These two things are not mutually exclusive, and only one of them is bad. No, Marco is the father that stones his daughter to death because she doesn't want to wear a burka anymore
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Jan 19, 2021 22:23
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Yeah man all those people with bones like chalk are just pussies and/or reactionary morons for not wanting to move to the bottom of a gravity well, very good analogy
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Jan 19, 2021 22:24
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I'm no human biology person but would you be able to acclimatise a belter to planetary gravity by gradually subjecting them to higher and higher gee's over a long period? They could have a rotating wheel space station with multiple rings inside each other and you gradually move radially down a ring where the gravity is stronger after you 'graduate' from gravity school.
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Jan 19, 2021 22:35
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etalian posted:Re-cast as David Cross in single episode to see if anyone notice. Blue himself right out an airlock.
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Jan 19, 2021 22:38
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Azhais posted:No, Marco is the father that stones his daughter to death because she doesn't want to wear a burka anymore What the gently caress dude
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Jan 19, 2021 22:40
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Why are these unenlightened savages so resistant against an existential threat to their way of life, we just want to give them farms and
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Jan 19, 2021 22:44
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Azhais posted:Moving from the belts to a planet isn't genocide any more than me moving from Minnesota to Idaho would be. At best it's a cultural demise. Do you have some sort of physiological ailment that makes moving to Idaho potentially lethal? A large percentage of Belters will suffer and die trying to adapt to life in a gravity well; ( I think it was 30-50% mortality rate on Illus ) because they either cannot afford the bone density treatments, or their body rejects the treatments like Naomi's. The Ring planets 100% represent both a Cultural and Physical Genocide for Belters without some sort of accommodation; and the Belt does not have the economic, military or political power to force one. None of this justifies Marco's actions, but acting like Belters can just go live on a planet and it's no big deal is a misread of the situation. Infidelicious fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Jan 19, 2021 |
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Jan 19, 2021 22:50
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lol at people itt coming up with fantasyland technological solutions civilize the belt. rather than simply ceding control of extraplanetary territories and establishing water/biomass treaties i hope marco's next asteroid hits the thread
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Jan 19, 2021 22:51
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Bedshaped posted:I'm no human biology person but would you be able to acclimatise a belter to planetary gravity by gradually subjecting them to higher and higher gee's over a long period? Nobody knows what the safe minimal level of gravity is for people or what would happen to people who were raised in anything less than one g, so it's all guesswork and handwaving. It simply hasn't been tested. We know zero g is bad for you long term, though much of the damage can be mitigated with exercise and supplements. And obviously one g is fine. It's probably the case that somewhere between those is also fine and you don't need one g, but we just don't know. There could be reasons why humans in lower g won't develop properly. My suspicion is that something like Martian 0.38 g would change your morphology but you'd be fine. Slender compared to how you'd develop in Earth gravity but it probably wouldn't cause harm.
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Jan 19, 2021 22:57
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Infidelicious posted:Do you have some sort of physiological ailment that makes moving to Idaho potentially lethal? Nobody is saying they can go live there with no problems. Marco was pretty clear in that he thinks belters choosing to go there was unacceptable because the next generation wouldn't be belters anymore. And if enough of them go there are no more belters. Nobody is forcing belters to go anywhere. They're not being rounded up and flung into a gravity well. Last season showed that to be quite the opposite really.
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Jan 19, 2021 23:27
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The Ilus settlers were on Ilus tanking the 30%+ mortality rate because two seasons before that the Inners shot up their home, they were war refugees forced out because Earth and Mars couldn't keep it in their pants. They were only taking their chances on Ilus because a 40% chance of your bones splintering is better than a 100% chance of starving on collapsing Ganymede. Not really sure that's a good example for how happy and eager Belters are to get down a well.
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Jan 19, 2021 23:36
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Also Ilus was super super rich. Not all the worlds have much of interest beyond being human habitable.
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Jan 19, 2021 23:38
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Azhais posted:Nobody is saying they can go live there with no problems. Marco was pretty clear in that he thinks belters choosing to go there was unacceptable because the next generation wouldn't be belters anymore. And if enough of them go there are no more belters. Yeah, they're "Choosing" to live on a planet in the same way millions of people "choose" to work minimum wage jobs. Making the choice to survive within an exploitative system isn't actually making a choice. Nobody has use force and round up the belters and fling them into a gravity well; because the coercive pressure of having to pay for air, food and water will accomplish the same goal.
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Jan 19, 2021 23:56
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Nobody's jumping to help Mars and their civilization has got a lot of the same concerns as the belters. They're not self sufficient and their reason for existing as a culture is in serious jeopardy. Sure they're stronger but the result could end up the same in the long term. Why isn't anybody crying about the Mars genocide?
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Jan 20, 2021 00:29
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Inspector 34 posted:Nobody's jumping to help Mars and their civilization has got a lot of the same concerns as the belters. They're not self sufficient and their reason for existing as a culture is in serious jeopardy. Sure they're stronger but the result could end up the same in the long term. Why isn't anybody crying about the Mars genocide? gently caress mars
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Jan 20, 2021 00:34
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Inspector 34 posted:Nobody's jumping to help Mars and their civilization has got a lot of the same concerns as the belters. They're not self sufficient and their reason for existing as a culture is in serious jeopardy. Sure they're stronger but the result could end up the same in the long term. Why isn't anybody crying about the Mars genocide? Is this sarcasm or did you just "What about sexual harassment against Men?" the Belter topic. I'll give one real basic answer regardless: Because we're not talking about Mars right now, we're talking about the Belt. edit: I think it was sarcasm and  has just destroyed my loving brain and the ability to tell the difference
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Jan 20, 2021 00:34
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Inspector 34 posted:Nobody's jumping to help Mars and their civilization has got a lot of the same concerns as the belters. They're not self sufficient and their reason for existing as a culture is in serious jeopardy. Sure they're stronger but the result could end up the same in the long term. Why isn't anybody crying about the Mars genocide? Because Martians aren't looking at a lifetime of pain or death if they relocate... Also, Their Culture is essentially "We want a new planet with a breathable atmosphere and independence from the UN"... and the MCR still has the Economic, Political and Military power to secure those interests; unlike the Belters. Infidelicious fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Jan 20, 2021 |
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Jan 20, 2021 00:44
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That Kickstarter Roci model has finally started to arrive in people's hands and my god it looks awesome https://twitter.com/orinthomas/status/1349938920423780359
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Jan 20, 2021 00:48
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All this talk about nu-Arjun and nobody's brought up the pro move: with Arjun dead because rocks, his actor is freed up to replace Cas!
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Jan 20, 2021 00:50
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CLAM DOWN posted:That Kickstarter Roci model has finally started to arrive in people's hands and my god it looks awesome This looks way better than I thought it would and now I regret not backing the project.
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Jan 20, 2021 00:52
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It's up.
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Jan 20, 2021 01:06
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7:06 and it's not up yet??? 
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Jan 20, 2021 01:06
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Grand Fromage posted:7:06 and it's not up yet??? It's up, I just watched a woman pee on my tv.
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Jan 20, 2021 01:08
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Thom12255 posted:It's up, I just watched a woman pee on my tv. I hope you can find another one to watch it on in the next hour otherwise you're gonna wanna avoid the thread for a bit to not get spoilers.
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Jan 20, 2021 01:13
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Infidelicious posted:Because Martians aren't looking at a lifetime of pain or death if they relocate.. In reality they probably should. Generations of .4g isn't gonna do their skeleton any favors either
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Jan 20, 2021 01:16
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Want one of those tins of Khlav Kalash.
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Jan 20, 2021 01:59
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Dom Tipper has been amazing this season. But it's getting to Reek levels for me. I get it by now.
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Jan 20, 2021 02:07
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Getting really hyped up for the moment Drummer finally gets to use her gun and feel absolutely no sympathy for anyone dumb enough to get in between her and all of the killing she's gonna do.
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Jan 20, 2021 02:16
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KHLAV KALASH That was good poo poo. Cannot WAIT to see what happens with Drummer and co. next couple of eps.
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Jan 20, 2021 02:17
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Naomi must suffer.
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Jan 20, 2021 02:19
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Azhais posted:In reality they probably should. Generations of .4g isn't gonna do their skeleton any favors either I mean, I don't think we necessarily know that all of the Ring planets are at 1 g (actually, I think Ilus was above 1 g). There could be hundreds of planets in the 0.6 to 0.8 range that might be relatively easy or at least possible for someone raised on Mars to adapt to.
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Jan 20, 2021 02:27
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Thom12255 posted:It's up, I just watched a woman pee on my tv. RIP to your TV. It wasn't on the episode list but I found a button at the top of the page that gave me show.
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Jan 20, 2021 02:27
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