|
I think for me personally, the biggest difference between XIII and XV is that I actually give a poo poo about Noctis and friends, which helps me forgive some (not all) of the plot's failings, in comparison to XIII where I cannot really make myself care about any of the cast.
DanielCross fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Jan 20, 2021 |
#
?
Jan 19, 2021 23:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 13:16 |
|
|
But Sazh has a chocobo in his hair! Remember when that came up, like, twice?
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2021 23:59
|
|
|
XV’s days getting shorter and shorter as the game went on was a nice little touch.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 00:02
|
|
|
Doctor_Fruitbat posted:But Sazh has a chocobo in his hair! Remember when that came up, like, twice? it comes up all the time, like when there's a very serious scene where sazh is considering shooting himself and the tiny comic relief chicken pops out of his hair to stop him, and then sazh goes "yeah the only reason i haven't killed myself is because the bird won't let me"
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 00:11
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:They are literally explained by Sazh in the opening segment of the game. Not to go on about this but holy poo poo this poo poo is meant to be a defense of XIII's storytelling. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 00:27
|
|
|
Its sad because the FFXIII's cast is actually really, really good, like, with depth and relatability and development, but it's hard to care because their situations are buried under so much unclear and poorly explained technobabble. And nonsense backstories about gods with ennui.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 00:52
|
|
|
Ace Transmuter posted:Its sad because the FFXIII's cast is actually really, really good, like, with depth and relatability and development, but it's hard to care because their situations are buried under so much unclear and poorly explained technobabble. And nonsense backstories about gods with ennui. big disagree, there's a kernel of something buried in most of them but it's totally gutted by the time you reach pulse. after that point, they all become interchangeable exposition machines in different outfits the next two games try to salvage them here and there (snow especially gets a great sendoff in lightning returns), but the cast as presented in XIII itself is dull, dull, dull
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 00:58
|
|
|
stev posted:XV just tells the player nothing and alludes to the fact that there's a story that may or may not be interesting somewhere but not here. Reminds me of Pokemon Sword and Shield  stev posted:Not to go on about this but holy poo poo this poo poo is meant to be a defense of XIII's storytelling. It's...ok? I don't think anyone thinks it's like really good or anything, but it explains the lore in the moment and fits the character drama going on (Lightning angry and distraught about Serah, Sahz seeing this and trying to be careful). Writing wise it's not super different from FF7R when Barret stammers when talking to Aerith about the Promised Land/Cetra. Schwartzcough posted:And a lot of that stuff was never actually explained in-game. Like, The Goddess Who Could Do Nothing Right barely gets a passing mention in a datalog somewhere, even though the ending of the game doesn't make a drat bit of sense without knowing all that background stuff the game never tells you. The game does explain most things decently well, but yeah Etro's involvement in freeing the party is the one thing that's given very little hints I feel. All you have are the one line Vanille says at the end of Chapter 12 when she's reading the Pulse history cie'th stone that brings her up stopping Ragnarok in a weird way, the 2 Datalogs (yes yes I know) about the same bit but less confusingly, and putting those together with their brands becoming white before the final battle that shows that Etro intervened again. So you'd need to both 1. Read the datalogs or remember a tiny detail from a scene that no one would ever pick up on, and 2. notice and put it together with the non-obvious visual storytelling the game was doing in the ending which the game usually never does. Like in hindsight yeah the elements are there, but I definitely don't think most jrpg players would pick up on that level of tiny detail. Which is sorta bad when it's a pivotal moment of the ending.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 01:57
|
|
|
Ventana posted:Writing wise it's not super different from FF7R when Barret stammers when talking to Aerith about the Promised Land/Cetra. When Barret starts speechifying about that stuff it's not to inform you about the deep lore of the game, it's to show you how important this is to him. It's not the same as a text dump you might as well have read off a menu/loading screen.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 02:12
|
|
|
Marmaduke! posted:When Barret starts speechifying about that stuff it's not to inform you about the deep lore of the game, it's to show you how important this is to him. It's not the same as a text dump you might as well have read off a menu/loading screen. I'm not really sure what point you're trying to bring up here, so I'll clarify mine. I brought up the comparison cause I thought the poster was annoyed at writing style since Sahz does stammer a lot there. In that vein, Sahz stammering to be careful to Lightning is (a bit) similar Barret stammering to correct himself that the Promised Land effectively belongs to Aerith. They're both writing tics for displaying character emotions in the scene that they're being considerate for something personal to the other person. If the poster wasn't annoyed at the writing style, then that's my bad.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 02:35
|
|
|
I'm not that poster but I'm pretty sure they were annoyed at how that 'explanation' doesn't actually explain a goddamn thing (note: this is an exaggeration, but noooooot by much) and is just a mess of fake words and half-finished thoughts. It successfully communicates that the thing that just happened is bad, but it does so literally by just saying "the thing that just happened is bad" in the most arcane terms possible, and does so without relating literally anything in that explanation to what you're doing or experiencing.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 02:57
|
|
|
Strobe posted:I'm not that poster but I'm pretty sure they were annoyed at how that 'explanation' doesn't actually explain a goddamn thing (note: this is an exaggeration, but noooooot by much) and is just a mess of fake words and half-finished thoughts. It successfully communicates that the thing that just happened is bad, but it does so literally by just saying "the thing that just happened is bad" in the most arcane terms possible, and does so without relating literally anything in that explanation to what you're doing or experiencing. It is an out of context quote which contains more quotes just before and after it and also is being reflected by what is onscreen. You have to know this is a super-disingenuous statement. Edit: I also wonder how much of this would even be a thing if FFXIII's translation wasn't so crap. There isn't a Secret Hidden Amazing Story there but the Japanese version is really plain and straightforward and has different tones for things. It's sort of like how "... whatever" defined Squall in the localization. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Jan 20, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 03:08
|
|
|
Ace Transmuter posted:Its sad because the FFXIII's cast is actually really, really good, like, with depth and relatability and development, but it's hard to care because their situations are buried under so much unclear and poorly explained technobabble. And nonsense backstories about gods with ennui. The characters suck tbh. Lightning is an rear end in a top hat. Because she's an orphan I guess. Because just being an orphan means you definitely have to be an rear end in a top hat to everybody. Sazh is a Comic Relief Black Guy. He does have his moments though; he's a dad trying to do what's best for his son, which is a rare character type in a JRPG. Vanille is some developer's wank material with a side of tragic back story awkwardly crowbarred in. Easily the worst character in the game and that's saying something. Snow's entire character is being an obnoxious idiot. But he was deliberately written that way, so that's okay then. Hope is an insufferable teenager. But he's going through a tough situation, so that's okay then. Fang is... Vanille's cool stylish girlfriend, I guess? She doesn't really have much of a character or backstory. Yes there are reasons why everybody is annoying and dysfunctional but none of it is actually a vehicle for any interesting character development or plot points, they're just stated reasons why everybody is unlikable. Why did the authors choose to create those particular characters and put them in this story? Because gently caress you I guess, I dunno. Because they had to throw something over the wall at the eleventh hour when the company's senior management asked them what the gently caress they'd been doing for the past five years.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 03:50
|
|
|
Ventana posted:So you'd need to both 1. Read the datalogs or remember a tiny detail from a scene that no one would ever pick up on, and 2. notice and put it together with the non-obvious visual storytelling the game was doing in the ending which the game usually never does. Lol, I never read datalogs in anything. I only read them in Souls games because they're on every loading screen. Square Enix try their best to make you do it in everything they make by putting a big exclamation mark next to the datalog section of the menu, but then you select it and have a giant list of topics covered in exclamation marks, and that makes me want to read them even less. Wikis aren't storytelling.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 11:10
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:
I’d love to see a fan translation version of the FF8 PC port. They basically lobotomized Squall during localization which is a shame. He’s supposed to start out as a sharp/cutting rear end in a top hat rather than a disaffected emo beta bitch.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 16:26
|
|
|
cock hero flux posted:It's more along the lines of: You did a good summary. Now do XIII-2 and Lightning Returns 
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 17:08
|
|
|
Jealous Cow posted:beta bitch. Let's not?
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 17:36
|
|
|
Arkage posted:You did a good summary. Now do XIII-2 and Lightning Returns no
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 18:58
|
|
|
wow it's like I was there
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 19:14
|
|
|
Arkage posted:You did a good summary. Now do XIII-2 and Lightning Returns One of the many reasons I love XIII-2 is it's "Final Fantasy XIII-2, The Story So Far..." when you load up a saved game. No sane person could interpret this as a serious recap. It's just a jumble of various short cutscene clips and single lines of dialogue with their context totally removed. If you took a year off the game and loaded up a save, this wouldn't be like MGS1 telling you what just went down. It would make you more confused and lost than if you had been given nothing. All set to some great soap opera music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pKNA7bgBSU This game rules.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 19:14
|
|
|
DanielCross posted:I think for me personally, the biggest difference between XIII and XV is that I actually give a poo poo about Noctis and friends, which helps me forgive some (not all) of the plot's failings, in comparison to XIII where I cannot really make myself care about any of the cast. Exactly. They learned enough from XIII
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 23:18
|
|
|
DanielCross posted:I think for me personally, the biggest difference between XIII and XV is that I actually give a poo poo about Noctis and friends, which helps me forgive some (not all) of the plot's failings, in comparison to XIII where I cannot really make myself care about any of the cast. Hard disagree for me. The only character I felt was the least bit relatable was Prompto. Noctis was such a blank slate, and the other two were JRPG/anime stereotypes I've seen a million times before. Meanwhile, you've got a sensible, three-dimensuonal normal dude like Sazh who felt like a breath of fresh air in the series.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2021 23:43
|
|
|
Sazh was the only good character in 13 though
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 00:07
|
|
|
noctis shows more personality in one round of fishing than the entire cast of FFXIII shows in the original game’s full runtime
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 00:13
|
|
|
Gonna be that guy who liked both XIII's and XV's cast. The real bad cast was Xii's. At least with XIII and XV you could say the writers cared about the cast as the narrative is 100% centered on them, even when it probably shouldn't be. XII's cast are all boring, barely relevant, have no real relationships with each other apart from the ones they had when they joined the party, and all the really interesting stuff happens far, far away from our heroes.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 00:15
|
|
|
XII's cast is good, it's just that they have three other people that barely matter following them around for some reason.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 00:19
|
|
|
Oxxidation posted:noctis shows more personality in one round of fishing than the entire cast of FFXIII shows in the original game’s full runtime I never played 15 other than the demo so I wouldn't know but I will believe you because I thought all the characters in 13 were horrible apart from Sazh. And I played about 60 hours of that game, so I nearly got out of the tutorial corridor
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 00:51
|
|
|
Hellioning posted:XII's cast is good, it's just that they have three other people that barely matter following them around for some reason. I'd say two and a half. Vaan is set up as a foil for Ashe with regards to using the nukes for revenge. (Unless number three was someone other than Vaan.)
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 01:48
|
|
|
Oxxidation posted:noctis shows more personality in one round of fishing than the entire cast of FFXIII shows in the original game’s full runtime Fishing minigames are my jam but Noctis was a boring ball of dull reaction. He doesn't get to grow as a character at all because he gets stuffed into a coma for a pointless time skip where everyone else gets to develop but off screen. And then he dies. I don't know maybe male bonding just does nothing for me. FFXII cast is 1/2 great, 1/3 pointless, and 1/6 sexy Chewbacca. So basically, 2/3rds of the cast is awesome.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 02:06
|
|
|
Sapozhnik posted:The characters suck tbh. Snow is an SNES Era RPG in a modern FF game who just wants to bumblelord around and do the right thing and gently caress worrying we'll figure it out in the end. And he's proven correct by the story. Snow owns. He's up there with Zidane and Bartz.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 02:20
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:Snow is an SNES Era RPG in a modern FF game who just wants to bumblelord around and do the right thing and gently caress worrying we'll figure it out in the end. FFXIII is basically “what if the archetypical broody FF protagonist had to be in the same game as the archetypical manic FF protagonist”. Answer: they annoy the poo poo out of each other.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 03:09
|
|
|
Just Andi Now posted:I'd say two and a half. Vaan is set up as a foil for Ashe with regards to using the nukes for revenge. (Unless number three was someone other than Vaan.) Yeah, but that comes late in the game, and until then Vaan exists entirely as a viewpoint character because they didn't want to make Balthier, Basch, or Ashe the actual main character.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 03:44
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:Snow is an SNES Era RPG in a modern FF game who just wants to bumblelord around and do the right thing and gently caress worrying we'll figure it out in the end. And then he goes and becomes a time cop and a club owner!
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 04:01
|
|
|
edit: wrong thread
dracula vladdy AF fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Jan 21, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 04:53
|
|
|
Yuna and Ashe were the real protagonists of their reductive games.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 05:37
|
|
|
I can't remember at what point I got bored of FFXII, but I remember wondering just why in the hell Vaan and Penelo were there at all.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 11:15
|
|
|
Never really agreed with the idea that Yuna is the real main protagonist of FFX. She's a really important character, essentially a co-lead, but it's Tidus who moves the story along by being the disruptive element that breaks the cycle in Spira. Without Tidus you don't get a permanent end to Sin.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 11:24
|
|
|
I love FFX but ever since I watched Futurama I get a dreadful anxiety. I constantly feel like Wakka is about to say "bite my shiny metal rear end" but he never does.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 12:42
|
|
|
exquisite tea posted:Never really agreed with the idea that Yuna is the real main protagonist of FFX. She's a really important character, essentially a co-lead, but it's Tidus who moves the story along by being the disruptive element that breaks the cycle in Spira. Without Tidus you don't get a permanent end to Sin. FFX is the story of a priestess getting a message from God to do the opposite of what she was raised to believe, in order to break a terrible cycle. The story is just being told from the perspective of the messenger.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 15:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 29, 2024 13:16 |
|
|
ffx having tidus as the lead is a lot like if morgana was the lead of persona 5
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2021 17:50
|
|
