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I've only played through the Devil Survivor games once and somebody asked me "why did you have Midori around so much if you didn't like her?" The simple answer is I never found anybody to replace her. The one little boy with his demon friend got killed and then I never found any other party members until I joined up with Naoya and got the angry guy and lost Yuzu and Midori. Just a random thought about my views of De Su 1's plot or pacing. I just kind bumbled around doing stuff with no idea what was going on or what I should be doing. I'll be frank, I have far more interest in replaying DeSu 2 than 1 and I might be doing exactly that soon. I can't decide. Really want AO's ending but Yamato won't join up. Also I have a weird brain worm about NG+ importing my Compendium. I don't want to have access to all my ready-made for victory demons. What is even the point? I wanna start from scratch and have to reassemble and rediscover the right demons with the right skills for the job. But between this and SJR locking its highest difficulty behind NG+, I don't have much choice.
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Jan 19, 2021 23:44
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Instant Grat posted:I know this is like a week old, but.... what Don't you miss like the entire actual ending to the game and last dungeon?
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Jan 20, 2021 01:02
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Acerbatus posted:Don't you miss like the entire actual ending to the game and last dungeon? No, you miss an extra dungeon in between the last two dungeons and a contentious epilogue
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Jan 20, 2021 01:26
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By what standard is the epilogue "contentious", lmao
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Jan 20, 2021 01:32
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outfits are ugly.
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Jan 20, 2021 01:36
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Nah, I like pretty much everyone's designs except, like, Teddie and Yosuke. Kanji and Chie especially look great.
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Jan 20, 2021 01:37
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The epilogue sucks rear end because it doubles down on P4's massively cowardly writing where it's okay to be honest with yourself and be who you are, as long as you eventually conform and fall exactly in line with what people thought/expected in the first place. And also has yet another adult woman talking about trying romance a teenage boy.
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Jan 20, 2021 01:42
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:The epilogue sucks rear end because it doubles down on P4's massively cowardly writing where it's okay to be honest with yourself and be who you are, as long as you eventually conform and fall exactly in line with what people thought/expected in the first place. Counterpoint: this is still a massive overreaction to some (good) character designs and I don't even remember what the second thing even refers to
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Jan 20, 2021 01:43
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Arist posted:Kanji and Chie especially look great. Heavily agreed.
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Jan 20, 2021 01:44
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Arist posted:Counterpoint: this is still a massive overreaction to some (good) character designs and I don't even remember what the second thing even refers to Counterpoint: The designs are very in line with....the rest of the games writing being that already, hence me saying it's doubling down.
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Jan 20, 2021 01:45
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Kanji only dressed and acted like a punk because he was overcompensating due to his masculinity issues..him looking more "normal" in the epilogue is fine and not cowardly or whatever the gently caress.
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Jan 20, 2021 01:47
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Kanji, the sensitive dude who's intentionally defined himself as a punk to avoid being labeled as weird, deciding he doesn't need to do that anymore is not the game somehow saying he should only be what society expects of him. If anything, continuing to bleach his hair would suggest that way more.
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Jan 20, 2021 01:48
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Kanji only dressed and acted like a punk because he was overcompensating due to his masculinity issues..him looking more "normal" in the epilogue is fine and not cowardly or whatever the gently caress. Yeah, Kanji's entire thing is that he is performatively over-punkish because he fears being seen as unmasculine for liking things like sewing. Him actually changing his looks instead of trying to cling to an image of toxic masculinity is in fact a good thing, even if it doesn't actually go in the path people wanted with regards to sexuality. There are complaints to be had about Kanji's plot but "A guy comes to terms with the fact he can like things that are considered unmasculine without it being embarrassing or shameful" is not actually a bad plot to explore. It probably (certainly) would have been better to not center it as heavily around sexuality as they did but "Am I somehow wrong for liking these things? I can't let anyone know" is in fact a fairly drat common problem among dudes. The problem with both Naoto and Kanji's plot is that they are heavily coached in the need to adhere to gender norms that are toxic as gently caress. Naoto thinks her gender is a problem with her being respected and taken seriously and Kanji is worried about being viewed negatively for not being super-traditionally masculine in all ways. Both of their stories end with them becoming more comfortable with who they are. Yes, it is absolutely a flaw that it still holds back from where it could go but at least in the case of the epilogue it's pretty blunt that both Kanji and Naoto are more comfortable with who they are, not hiding themselves to please society. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Jan 20, 2021 |
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Jan 20, 2021 01:49
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The only problem I have with Kanji's epilogue look is that it's clear he was not designed with black hair in mind because it looks off on him (it kind of looks like Yusuke's hair, looking back.) He rocks the rest of the look. Teddie's shirt is dumb but whatever, it's Teddie, that's his appeal.
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Jan 20, 2021 01:59
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Kanji looks great. Chie and Naoto are whatever. Nanako has her beta design but uglier. Yukiko, Yosuke, Teddie are horrible and that's like half of the redesigns. edit: people already made jokes about Yosuke's long neck, why did they make it worsee Tired Moritz fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Jan 20, 2021 |
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Jan 20, 2021 01:59
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My problem with Teddie's epilogue design is just that he doesn't really change at all and it's boring. Also the Yosuke thing is that I don't like his haircut.
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Jan 20, 2021 02:00
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I feel like the main issue with Persona 4 isn't that it treated any of its characters poorly, but more that it played the same notes too much. Kanji and Naoto's arcs about dealing with the impact of lovely stereotypes making them think they were something they aren't is a totally valid angle... but we get very little out of it being there twice, especially when what they think they are is also a completely valid identity with the only problem being that they aren't that. Then you've got both Yosuke and Teddie being creepy and weird about girls, and it being in slightly different ways doesn't really make it more refreshing, and stuff like playing the 'off-notes' with Kashiwagi a little too much to really be sympathetic to the character herself or to the jokes about her.
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Jan 20, 2021 02:05
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The redesign I hate the most is Marie's. Part of what I liked about her originally was her awesome fashion sense. The hair, the hat, the clothes...great stuff. And then her new look is so boring and plain. But whatever. Even the creators don't care about the redesigns. Very easy to ignore. The actual substance of the new ending is great, including Inaba being saved economically and culturally as well as existentially. EDIT: A point about Naoto that gets lost in all the focus on gender and trans stuff is the age discrimination. That seemed to me to be just as important to her character. Not only is she a girl, she's a teenage girl in an adult male world. I think this sets her apart from Kanji nicely.
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Jan 20, 2021 02:09
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TL;DR: Yes, you do miss stuff by ignoring Marie, but it's all Golden-exclusive stuff, so if you wanna basically play "vanilla Persona 4 with some QoL improvements and the occasional scene you just mash through", that's valid. You can still get the old true ending.
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Jan 20, 2021 02:13
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I still think the biggest missed opportunity is not letting Chie & Yukiko date each other. Let them be the lesbian power couple they deserve to be. Like, you can't have Yukiko's repressed thoughts be "Chie is my knight in shining armor" and then go "yeah they just real good gal pals  "
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Jan 20, 2021 02:15
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More games need stuff like Mass Effect 3's thing with Garrus and Tali where, if you didn't date one of them, they'd end up explicitly dating each other. (They're an extremely cute couple who can and do both recite the same turian/quarian romance film from memory.  )
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Jan 20, 2021 02:17
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YoshiOfYellow posted:I still think the biggest missed opportunity is not letting Chie & Yukiko date each other. Let them be the lesbian power couple they deserve to be. Yu x Yosuke and Chie x Yukiko are indeed the best P4 pairings.
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Jan 20, 2021 02:27
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Yu x Kanji should have been an option. 
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Jan 20, 2021 02:54
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PMush Perfect posted:Yu x Kanji should have been an option. Kanji can do better.
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Jan 20, 2021 02:55
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ImpAtom posted:Kanji can do better. 
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Jan 20, 2021 03:02
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I honestly thought they should have let Ann hook up with Ryuji if you didn't romance her in P5, they have a great dynamic
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Jan 20, 2021 03:02
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Yosuke x trashcan is canon
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Jan 20, 2021 03:03
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So what are the benefits to NG+ in Devil Survivor 2 RB? Anything really special? Otherwise I'll just start over from scratch.
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Jan 20, 2021 03:56
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NikkolasKing posted:So what are the benefits to NG+ in Devil Survivor 2 RB? Anything really special? You unlock a certain number of points and can spend those on customizable bonuses. Most of them are cheat things but you can also activate harder superbosses.
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Jan 20, 2021 04:04
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Tired Moritz posted:edit: people already made jokes about Yosuke's long neck, why did they make it worsee are you frustrated
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Jan 20, 2021 04:04
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Junpei posted:I honestly thought they should have let Ann hook up with Ryuji if you didn't romance her in P5, they have a great dynamic Nah, Ann/Ryuji are good friends but I think it doesn't go anything beyond that, similar to Yukari/Junpei. Also, Ann/Shiho.
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Jan 20, 2021 04:46
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Cleretic posted:I feel like the main issue with Persona 4 isn't that it treated any of its characters poorly, but more that it played the same notes too much. From what I remember about PQ, they took tropes from the game and dialed it up to 11. Like, there are parts where Teddie is such a huge creep. As for Kanji, I wonder if the concept of toxic masculinity is A Thing in Japan? The game nails you in the head with homophobia during his dungeon but yeah there was definitely a lot more to explore and show greater character depth.
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Jan 20, 2021 06:09
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Persona Q has some valid nice arcs (Ken and Kanji have a storyline, Mitsuru/Yukari is done again in a different light, Shinjiro gets some fleshing out, etc.) but yeah, don't go into it with high hopes for Chie, Akihiko, Teddie or any hope of them salvaging the 'girls can't cook' storylines.
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Jan 20, 2021 06:15
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AlphaKeny1 posted:As for Kanji, I wonder if the concept of toxic masculinity is A Thing in Japan? Unhealthy male stereotypes are most definitely a thing here, but the idea of "toxic masculinity" has not quite hit yet. Really for a PS2 game released in 2008, P4 is extremely progressive as is by Japanese standards.
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Jan 20, 2021 06:40
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funnily enough, the rpg thread was also talking about the epilogue p4g designs earlier too (and stuff about the dev attitudes)! personally i think they're ok but entirely ambivalent towards them  yu and yosuke would make a nice pair but first yosukes gotta get his head out of his rear end!!
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Jan 20, 2021 06:48
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It never stops being amusing seeing the polar opposite opinions of P4 in this thread and the RPG thread.
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Jan 20, 2021 06:52
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we need p5 arena so they can stop being cowards and give us the three years later versions of the p4 cast, like we got with the SEES crew
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Jan 20, 2021 09:53
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Varinn posted:we need p5 arena so they can stop being cowards and give us the three years later versions of the p4 cast, like we got with the SEES crew I do want to learn how Chie's actually doing at being a cop, since the TV at Leblanc does confirm she became one. ...but on the other hand I don't think I want to see Kanji's future, because ever since seeing someone write up a script for him as the host of a home and lifestyle show I don't think I can possibly accept any alternative future for him.
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Jan 20, 2021 10:00
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Teddie is somehow the manager at Junes now.
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Jan 20, 2021 10:07
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are ppl going to end up complaining about persona 3s ending for not being radical enough as well eventually or does it sidestep it lol
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Jan 20, 2021 10:31
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