|
jivjov posted:If DC can turn one of their lead heroines into a literal rapist for a film, then Marvel can have Comics Satan for one Has anyone from DC, Warner Bros. or the movie staff actually commented on this, out of interest?
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2021 21:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 04:45 |
|
|
BlackIronHeart posted:Am I the only person who thinks Mephisto being the big bad for an entire phase of the MCU seems like wishful thinking? Like, do people really think Disney is going to have literal Satan be in 6 movies and a couple TV shows or whatever? I guess that's why some people think it's actually Nightmare...it's not as if the MCU has made its own versions of characters that resemble little of the comics versions; they could just call the villain a demon, but by using Nightmare they don't have to use a literal Satan.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2021 21:41
|
|
|
I also feel like that Trillion Dollar Multinationals are above thinking what some church group is worried about these days.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2021 21:55
|
|
|
Hazo posted:Yeah I guess this is why I said I might not be explaining it well. I came away from the first two with the understanding that nobody knows what's going on, but after a cursory Google search and from flipping through the last few pages of spoilers, it seemed like Marvel fans knew exactly what was up (knowing who Geraldine and Agnes were, knowing whatever the gently caress SWORD is, the watch with the name of the Nazi bad guy from the beginning of Ultron). Hence my feeling that it wasn't for more casual viewers. So maybe I got the wrong impression from the cross section. As long as plotlines and characters are being borrowed or adopted from pre-existing sources, avid readers are always going to have a better idea of what's going on than new viewers or people who stick exclusively to the MCU, but that's the case for every adaptation of anything. Just because people who read the book or listened to the podcast or played the game or saw the original imported version have a better idea of what's going on doesn't mean the new product is explicitly for them in a way that excludes new viewers, and all the stuff that comic fans are taking for granted is going to be explained for everyone else in due time.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2021 22:01
|
|
|
tsob posted:Has anyone from DC, Warner Bros. or the movie staff actually commented on this, out of interest? Patty Jenkins Quote-Retweeted someone saying "Oh the movie's just playing with body swapping tropes and y'all are reading too much into it" -- the sum total of her contribution on the QRT was "yeah, this!" So clearly nobody on the production side of things caught it before release, and the preferred brand of damage control is "downplay it all"
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2021 22:13
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/PattyJenks/status/1344386851453300736?s=20
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2021 23:00
|
|
|
BurritoJustice posted:
honestly this strikes me as AoS fans grasping at straws but I guess there's always a chance
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2021 23:17
|
|
|
BrianWilly posted:Well, Mephisto's name always seems to pop up whenever anyone speculates about a big heavy-hitter magical bad guy coming to the MCU -- everyone was saying how the Sigourney Weaver character in Defenders was likely to be Mephisto, for no particular reason in retrospect -- but in WandaVision's case there's at least some credence to that theory because he was heavily involved in the storyline where Wanda and Vision "lost" their children in the first place. If there's going to be any villain pulling strings here, then -- going strictly from comics source -- Mephisto would make the most sense. If the rumors about Evan Peters[/i] being in this are true, I can see him as Mephisto. Hell, make him Mephisto as Quicksilver or something. He was always pretty scary on [spoiler]AHS BrianWilly posted:But no, there have been no production or story or casting leaks suggesting Mephisto will appear here. If anything, the episodes so far seems to be telegraphing something of a Hydra plot. A HYDRA plot to do what, though? What possible agenda could HYDRA have to transform a small town into a television sitcom? Even assuming that some version of HYDRA still exists (which we shouldn't as one of the points of Age of Ultron was to destroy HYDRA as an enemy), this doesn't serve any purpose of theirs that I can see. My take is on what happened is that after Endgame, Wanda went off by herself to mourn and try to put herself back together. She traveled some around America and found herself in the small town of Westview. Maybe she started crying. Wanda Maximoff looks like a pretty, kind of fragile girl, so the people in the town were [nice] to her, the poor bastards. And Wanda looked around the nice town with its nice people and thought about how nice it would be if she and Vision could live there. Maybe raise a family like in those American sitcoms she and Pietro used to watch before Tony Stark's bombs. Maybe Wanda initially didn't mean to do it, but now she wants to keep her Sitcom town. In all the stories when the hero beats the bad guy and marries his true love, the stories end with "...and they all lived happily ever after." This is Wanda's happily ever after and God help any one who tries to take it from her. Except that God won't help anyone who tries to take it from her, because right now in Westview, God is a Sokovian.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2021 23:28
|
|
|
Everyone posted:A theory. This is more or less where I'm at too. I really don't think it's necessary to have a big bad doing this to Wanda because Wanda doing this on her own makes a lot of sense. Your life has been a tragedy full of constant strife and loss for years with a brief window where you found true love before you had to murder him only to see him resurrected and murdered again right in front of you. But! You have the power to bend reality to give yourself that happiness back. Who the gently caress wouldn't do that, especially if they're acting out of immense grief?
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2021 00:04
|
|
|
Barry Convex posted:honestly this strikes me as AoS fans grasping at straws but I guess there's always a chance Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't think that they'll actually use AoS in any way. I do think that the commercials have a different, important meaning. But there is almost no way that it wasn't at least a polite nod to AoS. Commercial wise... I like the theory each one references an infinity stone. The bath soap being the tesseract/mind stone (cubic amd blue), the strucker watch being the time stone (cause time, of course), and the ultron-ish toaster being the mind stone (since that is how you get Ultron).
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2021 00:12
|
|
|
Erev posted:Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't think that they'll actually use AoS in any way. I do think that the commercials have a different, important meaning. But there is almost no way that it wasn't at least a polite nod to AoS. Do you want Ulltrons? Because that's how you get Ultrons.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2021 00:20
|
|
|
Casting spoiler James Spader is now credited for an episode
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2021 00:41
|
|
|
BurritoJustice posted:Casting spoiler OH SHIIIIIIIIII-
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2021 00:42
|
|
|
BurritoJustice posted:Casting spoiler it'shappening dot gif
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2021 00:54
|
|
|
BurritoJustice posted:Casting spoiler  LET'S GOOO!Speaking of theories: I still think cuz she was reminded of  *In my country we have the word prieto that what we call someone who is brown -not an actual slur- so I'm always messing up Pietro's name lmao Desperado Bones fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Jan 24, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2021 00:59
|
|
|
Paul Bettany rocked the 70s look this week. Need him to look like Al Bundy next week
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2021 01:36
|
|
|
GigaPeon posted:I hope they don’t just reset to ‘lol sitcom’ at the start of every episode. Stakes should rise sometimes. I hope that they do, but it becomes more obviously screwed up and desperate as Wanda tries and increasingly fails to hold her fake reality together. By ep 5 I want the show in full "not laughing but screaming" territory.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2021 02:09
|
|
|
Jedit posted:I hope that they do, but it becomes more obviously screwed up and desperate as Wanda tries and increasingly fails to hold her fake reality together. By ep 5 I want the show in full "not laughing but screaming" territory. I think the laugh track dropped out after Agnes said Ralph looked better in the dark and it's absence definitely helped ratchet things up.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2021 02:18
|
|
|
BurritoJustice posted:Casting spoiler
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2021 02:52
|
|
|
BrianWilly posted:Is there a source for this? I can't find any sites reporting on it. The only source i see is that he appears in the cast list if you do a google search for WandaVision, which is not what I’d consider a reliable source
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2021 02:58
|
|
|
Klungar posted:Back in time, where they would wait until Thanos would gather them and destroy them after dusting half the universe. The present day of the MCU has 0/6 Infinity Stones, though I’m not sure how that squares with the Ancient One’s lesson on what happens to doomed time lines that lose an Infinity Stone. I was wondering this myself
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2021 07:15
|
|
|
BlackIronHeart posted:Am I the only person who thinks Mephisto being the big bad for an entire phase of the MCU seems like wishful thinking? Like, do people really think Disney is going to have literal Satan be in 6 movies and a couple TV shows or whatever? Mephisto isn't literally Satan, that's why he's called Mephisto in the first place. To avoid being literally Satan. Think of Hydras double-arm salute that's totally-not-nazis-look-its-different-ok.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2021 11:34
|
|
|
massive spider posted:Mephisto isn't literally Satan, that's why he's called Mephisto in the first place. To avoid being literally Satan. Yeeeeah, that's not quite so true anymore. I'll grant that it's splitting hairs but he's Satan enough to count. In any case, I'll be surprised if he shows up in the MCU.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2021 12:08
|
|
|
massive spider posted:Mephisto isn't literally Satan, that's why he's called Mephisto in the first place. To avoid being literally Satan. I do think it's funny that Marvel uses real cities (New York, London, Seoul) but has a fake Satan while DC has a real Satan (Tom Ellis stars as Lucifer on Lucifer and appeared as Lucifer during the "Crisis on Infinite Earths" crossover between the DC TV shows) but fake cities (Gotham, Metropolis, Central City).
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2021 12:10
|
|
|
iirc a bunch of devils have/currently claim to be Satan, and many others are averse to calling themselves that for various reasons (Mephisto included) there's essentially a throne of Who Is Proper Satan that all the occupants of various Hells either lack the strength or desire to take; Mephisto himself has done a lot of the things Satan was said to do, and may have boldly announced himself Satan at several points in his youth, but now acts like he's above that kind of poo poo man he's Mephisto. This is separate from Mephisto's own throne, which has been lost and regained and etc gently caress knows if that's been / is being retconned or if half the places I hodgepodged my deets on Mephisto from were ever canon to begin with though, I'm drawing mostly from comics I can't remember authored by people that weren't likely to swap notes I don't think anyone sweats about the consistency about Mephisto much, but I kind of like the cut of his jib in a lot of non-Spider-Man appearances. He's often written as the sort of smug-but-amicable rear end in a top hat you expect out of the devil what do the deals, but nervously, like a car dealer that knows what he's doing but also knows he really needs this sell Lunatic Sledge fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Jan 24, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2021 12:32
|
|
|
sebmojo posted:I was wondering this myself If I had to guess it'd be that "destroy the stones" is less "the power is gone" and more "the power is distributing everywhere instead of being concentrated in these stones"
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2021 13:08
|
|
|
Piell posted:If I had to guess it'd be that "destroy the stones" is less "the power is gone" and more "the power is distributing everywhere instead of being concentrated in these stones" There is a scene from one of the trailers where Wanda is seemingly reconstituting the Mind Stone from a ball of yellow gas, so this seems the likeliest explanation.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2021 14:48
|
|
|
sebmojo posted:I was wondering this myself The Ancient One's speech is a little weird - I went back and watched the scene to make sure I'm remembering right. She first that the infinity stones create what "you experience as" the flow of time. Removing one of the stones creates a split to doom. But she continues that the stones are the "chief weapon against the forces of darkness," and that they'd be overrun without them. There's some tension between the two. The first implies that existence is tied in a metaphysical way to the stones. The second is way more concrete, and it makes sense in the context of the time stone that's the subject of their conversation. If Strange didn't have the time stone during the events of his movie, Dormammu just straight up wins. If the mind stone were gone, that wipes out Ultron, but it also wipes out Vision (who presumably is a net positive for the timeline, since he's a hero and what have you). Without the reality stone forcing the big fight at the end of The Dark World, maybe Malekith actually does something even more destructive later on. Presumably Thanos exploding all the stones was what was "supposed" to happen so its less of a big deal for "our" timeline to lose them. EDIT: thinking about it more, and there are potential similarities to Hickman's New Avengers. In that book, the Illuminati were repeatedly faced with the probable destruction of their universe, which could be (temporarily) averted by destroying another universe. What if the MCU heroes could return their universe to normal, but only at the expense of destroying every other universe they took a stone from? Clearly not a direction they were interested in exploring, but if "our" MCU is metaphysically doomed without stones, its a potential plotline. I would guess the actual answer is that the Ancient One's speech was intentionally written to be a bit fuzzy fuzzy so as to keep narrative options open in the future, which doesn't bother me too much. Time travel rarely works completely logically in stories, and stressing out about continuity is one of the worst expressions of comic book nerdery anyway. Boxman fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Jan 24, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2021 15:11
|
|
|
For those of you complaining about how the show is going to keep up this format going forward, Elizabeth Olsen has news for you:quote:I think the reason why they show the press the first episodes is because Episode 4 is quite a shift. It's a really fun perspective swap and I think a lot gets understood at that moment. From: this article, in which we also get the translation of Wanda's Sokovian lullaby.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2021 16:19
|
|
|
Boxman posted:The Ancient One's speech is a little weird - I went back and watched the scene to make sure I'm remembering right. She first that the infinity stones create what "you experience as" the flow of time. Removing one of the stones creates a split to doom. But she continues that the stones are the "chief weapon against the forces of darkness," and that they'd be overrun without them. I admit that scene with the Ancient put a new, interesting spin on the events of Doctor Strange. He wasn't just some guy who was (reluctantly) given the chance to learn magic and turned out to be really good at it. The Ancient One had her eye on him from the very start Did she have more than her eye on Strange? Did the Ancient One set up the car wreck that set him on the path to sorcery? Leaving that aside, the Ancient One isn't inclined to give the Time Stone to Banner because if he fails to return it, Dormammu eats their Earth.. After Strange's bargain, Earth is safe from Dormammu. Actually, it's possible that Earth is now safe from any number of entities like Dormammu as well. Dormammu seems like someone who would chase off or destroy other entities trying to take the Earth on the concept of "If I can't have it, none of them can have it either."
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2021 19:15
|
|
|
I think the Infinity Stones being gone and now the universe open to attacks from other beings is what leads to the Eternals stepping forward to sort of fill that gap. Also can be used as an explanation for when Galactus eventually shows up.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2021 19:36
|
|
|
Wylie posted:For those of you complaining about how the show is going to keep up this format going forward, Elizabeth Olsen has news for you: Guessing ep 4 might be the SWORD crew watching an episode of 'WandaVision' and trying to piece together what they've worked out about what's happening.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2021 20:28
|
|
|
Gaz-L posted:Guessing ep 4 might be the SWORD crew watching an episode of 'WandaVision' and trying to piece together what they've worked out about what's happening. I know Kat Denning's character from Thor is in this, and the bit after the sitcom part where someone is watching the episode kind of looks like her. Now that we know someone is outside the town watching it, I could see it as her character got brought in for her expertise with weird infinity stone poo poo and we finally find out some of what's going on.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2021 20:37
|
|
|
seaborgium posted:I know Kat Denning's character from Thor is in this, and the bit after the sitcom part where someone is watching the episode kind of looks like her. Now that we know someone is outside the town watching it, I could see it as her character got brought in for her expertise with weird infinity stone poo poo and we finally find out some of what's going on. I was actually thinking there'd be a joke where she THINKS that's why she's there and Jimmy Woo or someone explains it's actually because of her expertise in old sitcoms from spending most of her college experience getting stoned and watching Nick At Nite.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2021 20:40
|
|
|
Klungar posted:There is a scene from one of the trailers where Wanda is seemingly reconstituting the Mind Stone from a ball of yellow gas, so this seems the likeliest explanation. Comics stuff The summer after Endgame there was a big event that about the stones turning out to be aware and resulted in the stones all being destroyed and since then a few of them have occasionally shown back up inhabiting people.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2021 20:41
|
|
|
Everyone posted:I admit that scene with the Ancient put a new, interesting spin on the events of Doctor Strange. He wasn't just some guy who was (reluctantly) given the chance to learn magic and turned out to be really good at it. The Ancient One had her eye on him from the very start Did she have more than her eye on Strange? Did the Ancient One set up the car wreck that set him on the path to sorcery? I think that's consistent with Doctor Strange. I think it comes up in that movie that the Ancient One basically knew how her entire life would play out, so she's known Strange would replace her as Sorcerer Supreme for decades.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2021 21:45
|
|
|
Gaz-L posted:I was actually thinking there'd be a joke where she THINKS that's why she's there and Jimmy Woo or someone explains it's actually because of her expertise in old sitcoms from spending most of her college experience getting stoned and watching Nick At Nite. Could easily be both. There was someone just as qualified scientifically, but they were one of those people who "Doesn't own a TV man" so they went with her instead.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2021 22:07
|
|
|
Interesting thing is you can go back to the first two episodes and the major 'intrusions' during the body of the episode can easily be read as Wanda being in control. She punishes Mr Hart for pushing them on the reason for them being there only to relent because she's not truly evil and let Vision help him, and when Jimmy's transmission threatens to make her have to confront reality, she makes the radio explode, her shock is just because Dottie broke the glass and hurt herself.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 00:07
|
|
|
BlackIronHeart posted:Yeeeeah, that's not quite so true anymore. I'll grant that it's splitting hairs but he's Satan enough to count. In any case, I'll be surprised if he shows up in the MCU. That’s interesting- back in the day I used to collect Marvel trading cards(huge nerd) and Mephisto’s card made it abundantly clear that he was NOT the Biblical Satan. I know the Marvel comics universe has been rebooted like 12 times since then.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 02:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 04:45 |
|
|
thanks Marvel, for retroactively winning me a bunch of arguments about Spider-man
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 03:22
|
|