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Ardennes posted:If you are in a vulnerable state it does, but otherwise you would want to go on the offensive. Had to read this a couple times before it parsed, but yeah if you're a lefty venturing into USPOL you definitely need to mind your P's and Q's, and even then you're putting your account on the line. Really isn't worth it at least 9 times out of 10.
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Jan 24, 2021 07:36
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Stringent posted:Had to read this a couple times before it parsed, but yeah if you're a lefty venturing into USPOL you definitely need to mind your P's and Q's, and even then you're putting your account on the line. Really isn't worth it at least 9 times out of 10. I would say you would need a broader long-term strategy since there are different rules on the ground. If you can figure out the rules, you can figure out the tactics to get your point out there. As for worth it or not, eh it is a personal choice. Granted, a lot of amounts to how efficient are you willing to fight?
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Jan 24, 2021 07:41
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That Hannah Jones lady gives very strong "cognitive dissonance" vibes. Like on some level she realizes that she's defending terrible things, and that's why she spends so much effort trying to justify things and tar anyone whose disgrees with her.
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Jan 24, 2021 07:42
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Treating D&D as a zoo is fine. The problem is when people strip of their shirt and wade into a thread designed for coping mechanisms and mental gymnastics trying to actually debate those people.
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Jan 24, 2021 07:45
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Ardennes posted:I would say you would need a broader long-term strategy since there are different rules on the ground. If you can figure out the rules, you can figure out the tactics to get your point out there. As for worth it or not, eh it is a personal choice. The rules for UsPol are: - Do not disagree with the thread hive-mind. - Do not post disparaging remarks against Dems. - Do not post in any way shape or form that any half-measured bullshit the Dems throw us isn’t great or could be better. It doesn’t matter HOW you post so long as it’s not against Biden, or else you eat a probe and get called a troll/shitposter. It’s like those guys have never seen a shitposter. Rectal Death Adept posted:Treating D&D as a zoo is fine. I assure you that the only debate and discussion the posters in the UsPol thread want is if Dems are the best or the greatest. FlapYoJacks has issued a correction as of 07:49 on Jan 24, 2021 |
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Jan 24, 2021 07:46
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Ardennes posted:you can figure out the tactics to get your point out there I don't know of anyone's who's figured this out, but if you do I'm all ears.
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Jan 24, 2021 07:47
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Ardennes posted:I would say you would need a broader long-term strategy since there are different rules on the ground. If you can figure out the rules, you can figure out the tactics to get your point out there. As for worth it or not, eh it is a personal choice. I got called an anti-Semite for arguing that globalization lowers wages and loses jobs domestically. But, please, do go on.
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Jan 24, 2021 07:50
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DoomTrainPhD posted:The rules for UsPol are: I would say the odds are tight right now but it is also right after the inauguration. That said, I think the situation reflects the US... and I don't mean that in a patriotic way. Stringent posted:I don't know of anyone's who's figured this out, but if you do I'm all ears. It is been a while since I have been banned and I have been here since the early 2000s. Cpt_Obvious posted:I got called an anti-Semite for arguing that globalization lowers wages and loses jobs domestically. Everything is about the presentation. I get why people get turned off. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 07:55 on Jan 24, 2021 |
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Jan 24, 2021 07:52
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DoomTrainPhD posted:I assure you that the only debate and discussion the posters in the UsPol thread want is if Dems are the best or the greatest. Well yeah, it's literally mod sanctioned fanfic at this point. The Joe Biden they've created in their minds makes them feel better. That's all they really care about and they have no shame doing it. Diamond Joe may as well be Harry Potter at this point. Every objectively evil act and failure of his career and now presidency is actually a good thing because Are you saying Voldemort had some good points?!?!?!
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Jan 24, 2021 07:54
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the post inauguration grace period where criticism is banned lasts until the midterms, at which point criticism is still banned. then oh, what's this? it turns out that the next presidential election is right around the corner so everyone needs to put a lid on all that criticism.
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Jan 24, 2021 07:56
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DoomTrainPhD posted:Man, the UsPol thread is a bunch of snowflakes lmao. I posted a really benign “those executive orders aren’t all that great and here’s why” post. I didn’t insult Biden and I sure as heck didn’t break ~decorum~ and my probe was for trolling lmao. Never again. They want their echo chamber they can have their echo chamber. They essentially view it in the same way as we view some dumb liberal coming into this thread like that How Are U guy some days back - they believe that a post like yours is "expressing a controversial opinion with the intent of riling people up." Basically "this opinion is inherently trolling because a lot of the thread's regulars will strongly disagree with it." Liberals generally believe their own worldview to be a sort of objective truth, and this results in the perception that anyone who disagrees with them must be acting in bad faith. Of course, the key difference is that the succ zone doesn't exactly pretend to be some non-ideological discussion space and we are clear about our general ideological angle (and we very rarely want people to be probated - someone has to go on and on for pages before that happens).
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Jan 24, 2021 07:57
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Either way, I think I am mostly saying what everyone else knows already. I think posting is doable, it just isn't easy. That isn't the point, it is more that I think people will be a bit more open-minded in a few months when reality hits. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 08:00 on Jan 24, 2021 |
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Jan 24, 2021 07:58
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Rectal Death Adept posted:Well yeah, it's literally mod sanctioned fanfic at this point. Right now it’s: He just started his presidency! Give him some time! In a month it will be: It’s only been a month! In 6 months it will be: He’s doing everything he can but those darn republicans are stopping him! In a year it will be: We can’t criticize the Libs! There are midterms to think about!
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Jan 24, 2021 07:58
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Ardennes posted:. Oh no, this was in December: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3942616&pagenumber=1225&perpage=40#post510520073
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Jan 24, 2021 07:59
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Ardennes posted:That isn't the point, it is more that I think people will be a bit more open-minded in a few months when reality hits. oh, that clears things up. you are from a parallel reality where d&d is completely different.
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Jan 24, 2021 07:59
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Ardennes posted:That isn't the point, it is more that I think people will be a bit more open-minded in a few months when reality hits. I was yelled at and called a troll for criticizing Obama AFTER Trump was elected. I’m sorry, but I just don’t see this happening.
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Jan 24, 2021 08:00
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:oh, that clears things up. you are from a parallel reality where d&d is completely different. I guess I am a optimist, I don't think everything can last forever. At some point there has to be a meeting between thesis and anti-thesis as trite as that sounds. I just don't think history can work in one direction and even D&D itself has seen multiple versions. That said, I personally believe if a thread has a deep-set culture to it, you really can't kill it but it has to evolve one way or another. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 08:05 on Jan 24, 2021 |
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Jan 24, 2021 08:02
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Ardennes posted:I would say you would need a broader long-term strategy since there are different rules on the ground. If you can figure out the rules, you can figure out the tactics to get your point out there. As for worth it or not, eh it is a personal choice. or you could just hit yourself in the head 20-30 times with a hammer and be equally equipped to engage in the level of discourse d&d has to offer
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Jan 24, 2021 08:03
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Ytlaya posted:They essentially view it in the same way as we view some dumb liberal coming into this thread like that How Are U guy some days back - they believe that a post like yours is "expressing a controversial opinion with the intent of riling people up." Basically "this opinion is inherently trolling because a lot of the thread's regulars will strongly disagree with it." Liberals generally believe their own worldview to be a sort of objective truth, and this results in the perception that anyone who disagrees with them must be acting in bad faith. Yeah this. This thread isn’t in the “DEBATE and DISCUSSION” forum. We tell dumb Libs to gently caress off but there is genuine debate and reasoning along with the “gently caress off” most of the time. It’s a shame that the forum with a name that implies debate and discussion is welcome will probe people for differing opinions faster than this forum which has no such advertisement. No matter how the differing views are presented.
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Jan 24, 2021 08:05
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The Muppets On PCP posted:or you could just hit yourself in the head 20-30 times with a hammer and be equally equipped to engage in the level of discourse d&d has to offer User was put on probation for this post: DO NOT ENCOURAGE SELF HARM/DECORUM WAS BREACHED.
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Jan 24, 2021 08:07
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Ardennes posted:If you are in a vulnerable state it does, but otherwise you would want to go on the offensive. calling a circlejerk a "battlefield" is a bit much imo
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Jan 24, 2021 08:07
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Also “Herstory begins now” is a bad IK and a snowflake lib.
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Jan 24, 2021 08:09
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Shipon posted:https://twitter.com/eclecticbrotha/status/175689066732470272 lmao holy poo poo Ragnarok go on cumtown
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Jan 24, 2021 08:11
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Can you just be really sarcastic like, post an article about the 2000$ becoming 1400$ and aaying "this is actually really good. I love this soo much. Its weird anyone wouldnt think its awesome. Wow. Im just reallt moved i thought about how lo g its been since i could say 'my president' if you think this is corny pls be nice im a very sensitive person"
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Jan 24, 2021 08:13
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Debate me Cowards
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Jan 24, 2021 08:15
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That Fauci guy really annoys me for some reason. Something about working with actual biologists makes him piss me off, and I can't quite articulate what it is. It's obvious that he absolutely loves all the positive attention he gets from liberals, and it's just kind of ugly to see. That Maddow clip was particularly egregious.Ardennes posted:That isn't the point, it is more that I think people will be a bit more open-minded in a few months when reality hits. Strongly disagree - I think people will just double-down as more and more genuine reasons to be upset with the administration arise. At the end of the day you're dealing with people who already have their own understanding of politics set in stone, and that understanding basically consists of "the Real Threat is Trump and his white supremacist hordes." Anything beyond that will be received with irritation, because why would anyone care about this other stuff instead of the Real Threat? "Maybe Biden isn't what we'd prefer, but Nazis stormed the capitol!" If you sort of "mentally squint" you can understand where they're coming from. Rectal Death Adept posted:Treating D&D as a zoo is fine. Yeah, I sometimes don't mind engaging with people like that, but only in a context where I'm not in some tiny minority. The old D&D Primary and General Election threads were a kind of rare exception where there was a relatively even split, so I posted in those threads. The USPol/Trump threads on the other hand are basically just a liberal chat thread. It's not much different from posting in /r/politics or something, and I imagine that's it'll be about as bad as it's ever been during the Biden administration. Now these people will actually want to defend the current administration, instead of just disagreeing in broader strokes about the Democratic Party, and they probably have an even stronger emotional investment due to their "trauma" from Trump. I've also been watching family go insane in real time recently (you'd think that the Biden inauguration was some profound religious sermon) and I'm not exactly eager to witness more of that. Ytlaya has issued a correction as of 08:20 on Jan 24, 2021 |
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Jan 24, 2021 08:15
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DoomTrainPhD posted:I was yelled at and called a troll for criticizing Obama AFTER Trump was elected. I’m sorry, but I just don’t see this happening. Im new to SA and have no experience in the uspol thread, but I've been waiting for reality to hit for my irl shitlib friends since like 2011 and it still hasn't happened. I had an argument with a journalist friend of mine during the 2020 primary where he literally couldn't believe that I thought Obama was a bad president. The specific subject came up because he tried to use the "success" of the Obama presidency as an example of how moderates are the best at governing.
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Jan 24, 2021 08:18
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Braggins posted:Im new to SA and have no experience in the uspol thread, but I've been waiting for reality to hit for my irl shitlib friends since like 2011 and it still hasn't happened. I had an argument with a journalist friend of mine during the 2020 primary where he literally couldn't believe that I thought Obama was a bad president. The specific subject came up because he tried to use the "success" of the Obama presidency as an example of how moderates are the best at governing. The best book to throw at Libs is called “Listen Liberal” (it’s written by a progressive.) You should read it if you haven’t and you should also ask your friend to read the book.
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Jan 24, 2021 08:21
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Braggins posted:Im new to SA and have no experience in the uspol thread, but I've been waiting for reality to hit for my irl shitlib friends since like 2011 and it still hasn't happened. I had an argument with a journalist friend of mine during the 2020 primary where he literally couldn't believe that I thought Obama was a bad president. The specific subject came up because he tried to use the "success" of the Obama presidency as an example of how moderates are the best at governing. How did you find SA and why did you join it in 2020? I'm amazed there's any new blood here
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Jan 24, 2021 08:28
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Vim Fuego posted:How did you find SA and why did you join it in 2020? I'm amazed there's any new blood here He probably reverse GISed a 9/11 meme.
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Jan 24, 2021 08:29
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DoomTrainPhD posted:The best book to throw at Libs is called “Listen Liberal” (it’s written by a progressive.) You should read it if you haven’t and you should also ask your friend to read the book. This and The Divide by Matt Taibbi, back before the internet broke his brain. The whiplash alone will shock you. Bonus, Bad Blood by David Carreyou, which really goes to town on just how braindead everyone in the halls of power are. Bonus appearance by Joe Biden!
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Jan 24, 2021 08:30
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Taintrunner posted:This and The Divide by Matt Taibbi, back before the internet broke his brain. The whiplash alone will shock you. Bonus, Bad Blood by David Carreyou, which really goes to town on just how braindead everyone in the halls of power are. Bonus appearance by Joe Biden! oooo, thanks! I will add these to the audible list.
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Jan 24, 2021 08:31
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DoomTrainPhD posted:The best book to throw at Libs is called “Listen Liberal” (it’s written by a progressive.) You should read it if you haven’t and you should also ask your friend to read the book. Im familiar with Thomas Frank. I've only read some of his essays/articles, but he is good. I honestly just stopped talking about politics with the person I mentioned. During the primary they sent me that absurd NYT article that tried to frame Burlington's sister city program as Bernie being an unwitting tool of the Russians as a smoking gun for why Bernie would never be president and we got into a pretty heated argument. After that I just felt like it wasn't worth it. Looking back I should have realized that it was silly to be hopeful that Bernie could win the dem primary. In like 2018 or so I went to a NBA game with a group of friends and they were all talking about how good the new Max Boot book was that they were all reading. I was almost at a loss for words, but still ended up in an argument about it. I should have realized then what was coming lol.
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Jan 24, 2021 08:32
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Braggins posted:Im new to SA and have no experience in the uspol thread, but I've been waiting for reality to hit for my irl shitlib friends since like 2011 and it still hasn't happened. I had an argument with a journalist friend of mine during the 2020 primary where he literally couldn't believe that I thought Obama was a bad president. The specific subject came up because he tried to use the "success" of the Obama presidency as an example of how moderates are the best at governing. The barrier stems from the fact that they perceive politics in a fundamentally different way than we do. We think of politics/politicians in terms of "the things they do (or don't do) and the net impact of those things." They instead think of politics as "my perception of politicians as people, based off of the way they behave." And they don't think this way just because they're stupid or something - everything about US political media encourages people to think this way. They also believe that part of being a normal, good person is assuming the best of people, and this means that they're always open for a reason to believe in Democratic politicians. When Obama doesn't pass a public option, for example, they believe that it's common sense to assume that there's some good reason for it (or someone else who can be blamed). Their default assumption is that these are good people, and even if you can prove that one thing a politician did is bad, they'll still always default to the assumption that they're not bad when it comes to all future actions. I pretty much never discuss this stuff with liberals IRL anymore unless they bring it up first, and even then I'll just sort of make it clear that I disagree but that I'm not interested in further discussion. Sometimes the discussion will even seem like it goes well, but any "progress" you made will be immediately forgotten.
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Jan 24, 2021 08:32
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DoomTrainPhD posted:oooo, thanks! I will add these to the audible list. Listen Liberal! is by the same dude who did "What's the Matter with Kansas" which libs love (it's okay to love that book IMO) Having lived in KS almost my entire life and having lived in rural Kansas for 5 years that book is correct (although a bit outdated today) spacemang_spliff has issued a correction as of 08:37 on Jan 24, 2021 |
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Jan 24, 2021 08:33
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Braggins posted:Looking back I should have realized that it was silly to be hopeful that Bernie could win the dem primary. In like 2018 or so I went to a NBA game with a group of friends and they were all talking about how good the new Max Boot book was that they were all reading. I was almost at a loss for words, but still ended up in an argument about it. I should have realized then what was coming lol. Bernie winning the first few primaries (he won Iowa gently caress the DNC) made a lot of us hopeful. We underestimated just how spiteful boomers really are.
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Jan 24, 2021 08:35
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Braggins posted:and have no experience in the uspol thread you're on the right track from the get-go, at least realtalk: you first have to get through the incredibly dense outer shell of the just world fallacy, i.e the notion that dem higher-ups are there because of merit and not because they're stupid rich assholes
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Jan 24, 2021 08:36
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Vim Fuego posted:How did you find SA and why did you join it in 2020? I'm amazed there's any new blood here One of my best friends who is a lefty and longtime SA member bought me an account and pointed me to CSPAM (first suggest doomsday economics). Edit: Ive been aware of SA for like 15+ years, but never joined because I didn't want to pay for an account lol. Braggins has issued a correction as of 08:46 on Jan 24, 2021 |
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Jan 24, 2021 08:36
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spacemang_spliff posted:Listen Liberal! is by the same dude who did "What's the Matter with Kansas" which libs love (it's okay to love that book IMO) If you have driven through Kansas you don’t need a loving book to tell you what’s the matter with that hell-hole state. 
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Jan 24, 2021 08:36
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Oh, and Biden abandoned that public option sham, in case anyone was wondering https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leQn1FoK0wE
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Jan 24, 2021 08:37
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