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SpiderHyphenMan
Apr 1, 2010

by Fluffdaddy
Put another way, why doesn't Darker Side have checkpoints if it isn't made specifically for people with completionist brainworms?

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abelwingnut
Dec 23, 2002


A HORNY SWEARENGEN posted:

Also it saves you money because you only have to buy one pokemon game and zero Ubisoft games.

which pokemon game?

hatty
Feb 28, 2011

Pork Pro

SpiderHyphenMan posted:

Put another way, why doesn't Darker Side have checkpoints if it isn't made specifically for people with completionist brainworms?

Because they wanted it to be hard

Snake Maze
Jul 13, 2016

3.85 Billion years ago
  • Having seen the explosion on the moon, the Devil comes to Venus

SpiderHyphenMan posted:

Put another way, why doesn't Darker Side have checkpoints if it isn't made specifically for people with completionist brainworms?

Because checkpoints in a single gauntlet are a totally disconnected design decision versus requiring 100% collectables to access the gauntlet? I don’t get what you think the connection between the two is.

Quarterroys
Jul 1, 2008

Super No Vacancy posted:

the moon distribution is maybe the ideal configuration to satisfy the greatest number of players and nintendo can't be expected to fix every different breed of brainworm is the bottom line i think

Nailed it.

I beat the game, hunted moons until it got to the point where all that was left was really obtuse or tedious moons, unlocked Darker Side and that was plenty for me.

I love collectathons to this day, but with much more limited gaming time and living in the era of backlog gaming, quitting games when they become more work than fun is where it’s at.

Dirk the Average
Feb 7, 2012

"This may have been a mistake."
All I have left is the volleyball moon, and I would be totally happy with doing that one if I could start closer to the end of the challenge instead of having to ramp up to it over the course of several minutes before failing each time.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




SpiderHyphenMan posted:

Put another way, why doesn't Darker Side have checkpoints if it isn't made specifically for people with completionist brainworms?

Because it's not actually hard?

It's inflated difficulty. The individual sections of it aren't that difficult given just a bit of practice, but since you have to go through the whole thing every time you gently caress up, you can't get that practice without some frustration. It's tedious but not actually hard. I kind of hate how Nintendo has been doing that a lot recently, instead of making actually genuinely challenges.

My best counter-example of a game that makes something hard is the B and C sides (world 9) of Celeste. Now that's a challenge. Checkpoints are there, or rather the stages are short, but it's just tough. Darker Side isn't that at all.

Happy Noodle Boy
Jul 3, 2002


Celeste is loving bullshit and I love it. Hot drat I’m getting real angry thinking about those later Celeste levels.

SpiderHyphenMan
Apr 1, 2010

by Fluffdaddy

Snake Maze posted:

Because checkpoints in a single gauntlet are a totally disconnected design decision versus requiring 100% collectables to access the gauntlet? I don’t get what you think the connection between the two is.
Persistence. Galaxy 2, 3D Land, and 3D World all end with a checkpoint-free gauntlet that's only unlocked after completing everything else in the game. It exists as a final challenge to those who put enough time and energy into the game to get to it.
Odyssey, for some reason, lets you access this challenge after completing less than two-thirds of its content. This makes the end of the level, which is as sentimental a moment as Mario's ever had, feel less impactful, to me, personally.

The Anime Liker
Aug 8, 2009

by VideoGames

abelwingnut posted:

which pokemon game?

Exactly.

Snake Maze
Jul 13, 2016

3.85 Billion years ago
  • Having seen the explosion on the moon, the Devil comes to Venus

100YrsofAttitude posted:

It's tedious but not actually hard. I kind of hate how Nintendo has been doing that a lot recently, instead of making actually genuinely challenges.

This is kind of a pet peeve and you’re far from the only person to say it, but I disagree with the idea that checkpoints don’t make something easier.

If you have checkpoints in something like darkest side then you can just try each segment until you succeed once, even if you just got lucky. If there’s no checkpoints, then you need to understand each segment well enough to succeed consistently, which is a higher level of mastery. You can debate how much difficulty is appropriate or enjoyable, but it seems disingenuous to pretend there’s no effect on difficulty at all. Getting a golden strawberry in Celeste is legitimately harder, not (just) more tedious.

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story
Speaking of frustrating levels with no checkpoints my highest floor in Mummy-Me Maze Forever in Captain Toad is floor 30. There's also more levels unlocked by beating it which pisses me off.

I feel like this might possibly be one of the things that's easier docked than handheld, because part of the strategy for the floors ending in 5 is to tap the Chargin Chucks so they don't steamroll you, but that's difficult to do in handheld because you have to constantly move, so you can't tap with the left hand, and the right hand is usually busy holding a or moving the camera, making it difficult to tap. I also am notoriously bad at tapping them correctly and miss them. I know docked mode you can use the joycon as a pointer which probably makes it a bit more precise. All I know is I'm tearing my hair out over this thing.

SpiderHyphenMan
Apr 1, 2010

by Fluffdaddy

Twelve by Pies posted:

Speaking of frustrating levels with no checkpoints my highest floor in Mummy-Me Maze Forever in Captain Toad is floor 30. There's also more levels unlocked by beating it which pisses me off.

I feel like this might possibly be one of the things that's easier docked than handheld, because part of the strategy for the floors ending in 5 is to tap the Chargin Chucks so they don't steamroll you, but that's difficult to do in handheld because you have to constantly move, so you can't tap with the left hand, and the right hand is usually busy holding a or moving the camera, making it difficult to tap. I also am notoriously bad at tapping them correctly and miss them. I know docked mode you can use the joycon as a pointer which probably makes it a bit more precise. All I know is I'm tearing my hair out over this thing.
The "new levels" are just the Coins Galore mini games from Episodes 1 2 and 3. Get the DLC and treat that as the actual end of the game, imo.

mdemone
Mar 14, 2001

Do we have a consensus on which third-party Joycon replacements are the best? Or is it worth the price to buy Nintendo?

hatty
Feb 28, 2011

Pork Pro
People like the hori split pads but the lack of gyro is a dealbreaker for me

JollyBoyJohn
Feb 13, 2019

For Real!
genuine question i'm asking without wanting to sound like a jerk - why would you buy a replacement joycon when you could just buy a pro controller?

Ignite Memories
Feb 27, 2005

For some people, the switch is a handheld

JollyBoyJohn
Feb 13, 2019

For Real!

Ignite Memories posted:

For some people, the switch is a handheld

I often forget this

minya
Sep 7, 2004

SUN RA WAS HERE IN HIS ELEMENT
he invited me back for a ride
My Joycons drift to poo poo, but because I only play handheld Switch at home, not while traveling (lol remember traveling), the Tryone goose holder thing is the ultimate solution. If I want to play in bed or on the couch while my partner is watching TV or whatever I just set up the goose, hook the Switch into it, and use the Pro controller. Obviously not a solution for "true" portable play but if your handheld use is limited to mostly at home, the goose-neck thing is a perfect solution

hatty
Feb 28, 2011

Pork Pro
Set the goose and let loose is what I say

Zurtilik
Oct 23, 2015

The Biggest Brain in Guardia
I do both. I like the handheld more for slower or less graphically intense games (Stardew, Animal Crossing, Pokemon, etc.)


I like the TV more for more standard AAA type games, especially if the play is faster (Xenoblade, Skyrim, Splatoon)

Getting the Pro Controller definitely tipped me to playing on the TV more.

Zurtilik
Oct 23, 2015

The Biggest Brain in Guardia
Has anyone tried to game streaming to Switch thing. How is that?

minya
Sep 7, 2004

SUN RA WAS HERE IN HIS ELEMENT
he invited me back for a ride

hatty posted:

Set the goose and let loose is what I say

"The goose is loose" is a common utterance in my household. Half the fun of using the thing is calling it "the goose"

Poque
Sep 11, 2003

=^-^=
Darker Side ruled and was extremely fun

Takoluka
Jun 26, 2009

Don't look at me!



Zurtilik posted:

Has anyone tried to game streaming to Switch thing. How is that?

The what?

Zurtilik
Oct 23, 2015

The Biggest Brain in Guardia

Takoluka posted:

The what?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/kotaku.com/control-is-now-available-to-stream-the-switch-1845506266/amp

Supposed to have Hitman 3 at some point as well, I believe. Thr Japanese also can stream RE7, I don't think that's worked its way here yet.

Happy Noodle Boy
Jul 3, 2002


Control is also out as a stream game. It’s.... not great.

Zurtilik
Oct 23, 2015

The Biggest Brain in Guardia

Happy Noodle Boy posted:

Control is also out as a stream game. It’s.... not great.

Is it not great because Control isn't great or is the actual streaming quality poor?

RuBisCO
May 1, 2009

This is definitely not a lie



Zurtilik posted:

Is it not great because Control isn't great or is the actual streaming quality poor?

Control is an amazing experience by most accounts but definitely not via Nintendo's shoddy streaming effort.

Tender Bender
Sep 17, 2004

SpiderHyphenMan posted:

I think Darker Side should have been the definitive end of the game, like the final level of every 3D Mario game since Galaxy. As such, I think that for every moon, Nintendo should have asked "is this content unique/interesting enough for the player be required to experience it in order to reach the very end of the game?" And for every moon where the answer was "no", they should have replaced it with 100 coins.

This would have created the exact problem you're trying to avoid: players would be forced to find every single moon to unlock Darker Side. The way it is now, you're rewarded with a moon for every nook and cranny that you decide to investigate. There are other moons in the corners you chose not to investigate, that other players find. You can avoid collecting nearly half the moons in the entire game and still unlock the Darker Side.

Eliminating all the "extra" moons would mean you WOULD have to consult a guide, because you wouldn't be able to miss any moons.

No Dignity
Oct 15, 2007

Zurtilik posted:

Is it not great because Control isn't great or is the actual streaming quality poor?

It's an assembly line third person shooter with light rpg and crafting elements which is also an amazing tech demo for ray tracing and DLSS effects on next gen systems. And the Switch is not a next gen system

KingSlime
Mar 20, 2007
Wake up with the Kin-OH GOD WHAT IS THAT?!
none of that is an issue if the streaming quality is good, that's the whole point of "cloud games"

which doesn't sound like the quality is there but that's the idea at least

The Anime Liker
Aug 8, 2009

by VideoGames

Ignite Memories posted:

For some people, the switch is a handheld

And much like their foot fetish brethren, they must be publicly shunned.

No Dignity
Oct 15, 2007

KingSlime posted:

none of that is an issue if the streaming quality is good, that's the whole point of "cloud games"

which doesn't sound like the quality is there but that's the idea at least

So thats something I don't completely understand - if the computing is being done remotely and the Switxh is only receiving an image, then surely with enough resources thrown at it the Switch version could have all the graphical bells and whistles of the PC version at 1080p? So there shouldn't be a reason for it to look subpar except that the host doesn't want to shell out on enough hardware capacity to bring out the best in it?

Roadie
Jun 30, 2013

Zurtilik posted:

Is it not great because Control isn't great or is the actual streaming quality poor?

Control isn't bad, but it's one of those games where it gradually becomes obvious that 80% of the effort went into the first 50% of the game.

Ignite Memories
Feb 27, 2005

A HORNY SWEARENGEN posted:

And much like their foot fetish brethren, they must be publicly shunned.

thats pretty classist if you ask me

Mister Facetious
Apr 21, 2007

I think I died and woke up in L.A.,
I don't know how I wound up in this place...

:canada:

Zurtilik posted:

Is it not great because Control isn't great or is the actual streaming quality poor?

Even if the game weren't merely fine, the actual stream quality (bitrate) for both Control and Hitman 3 is trash.

Stadia it ain't. And that's saying something.

Watch any PS4 console-level capture video. That's the quality you're seeing.

Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Jan 25, 2021

The Anime Liker
Aug 8, 2009

by VideoGames

Ignite Memories posted:

thats pretty classist if you ask me

Cancelled for making fun of rich foot perverts.

What a time to be alive.

Orv
May 4, 2011

multijoe posted:

So thats something I don't completely understand - if the computing is being done remotely and the Switxh is only receiving an image, then surely with enough resources thrown at it the Switch version could have all the graphical bells and whistles of the PC version at 1080p? So there shouldn't be a reason for it to look subpar except that the host doesn't want to shell out on enough hardware capacity to bring out the best in it?

The trick is that almost nowhere in the world has the internet infrastructure to actually do game streaming right now, regardless of the receiving hardware.

E: This is an oversimplification in a couple ways mind.

Orv fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Jan 25, 2021

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WHY BONER NOW
Mar 6, 2016

Pillbug

Space Cadet Omoly posted:

That's what I do with breath of the wild! I just start the game up, wander around enjoying the scenery, and sometimes I find a new seed I missed.

:hfive: that's not a bad idea, I know there's a shitload of seeds I didn't bother with

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