|
letthereberock posted:That’s interesting- back in the day I used to collect Marvel trading cards(huge nerd) and Mephisto’s card made it abundantly clear that he was NOT the Biblical Satan. I know the Marvel comics universe has been rebooted like 12 times since then. Didn't it have to do with the Comic book code thing? Like they were forbidden to say anything about the bible and such, no bad words, no drugs, no one could die in a graphic way, no spooky monsters or horror stories, etc,etc. So the writers and artists had to find loopholes to make their characters and stories. And the reason DC has Lucifer is because of Vertigo, I think Vertigo wasn't following the code and were DC's "adult" branch (had to look in wikipedia and that code thing died around 2011 oof). My comic book history might be all wrong btw
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 03:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 09:17 |
|
|
I just hope at the end Wanda isn't responsible for all this because I don't want Phase 4 being the phase where everyone is trying to kill Wanda.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 05:10
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:I just hope at the end Wanda isn't responsible for all this because I don't want Phase 4 being the phase where everyone is trying to kill Wanda. They could just so some overwrought redemption story, it's not like they don't play those out all the time. They're boilerplate, particularly in contemporary / urban fantasy.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 07:36
|
|
|
Just caught up on this sitcom that's secretly not a sitcom with spooky weird poo poo going on while everyone is all shucksydoodle, I feel like the creators were big fans of too many cooks.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 07:39
|
|
|
I highly doubt this’ll end with Wanda as a Phase 4 villain since a) she’s clearly constructed this false reality as a response to her own recent traumas and b) there’s probably something/someone else influencing her and taking advantage of those traumas for some yet-to-be-revealed purpose. I mean c’mon, the Avengers roster has thinned out enough, they aren’t going to turn one of the only senior members left into a big bad.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 07:40
|
|
|
Yea, just remember after House of M and M Day it was years before people stop wanting to kill her on sight. Though I doubt she's going to genocide anyone in the MCU, so "That Witch will burn!" won't be happening. But yea making this a result of her trauma is a good way to go. As long as there isn't a "oh she just had to get over it" moment.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 08:39
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:But yea making this a result of her trauma is a good way to go. As long as there isn't a "oh she just had to get over it" moment. Surely that imperative is implicit to the narrative? Or am I not following?
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 09:01
|
|
|
Open Source Idiom posted:Surely that imperative is implicit to the narrative? Or am I not following? I mean its not been spelled out, but yea its most likely. Though this straight up could be her being controlled by a outside force as well. I'm just hoping they are a bit more sensitive to mental trauma and illness and not do the usual "all you needed to do is accept this terrible thing and you'll be normal again!".
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 09:32
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:But yea making this a result of her trauma is a good way to go. As long as there isn't a "oh she just had to get over it" moment. The most logical way (and the way I hope this goes) is Vision helping her come to terms with his death. Edit: /\ I agree it can't just be a reset button though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 09:33
|
|
|
Mokinokaro posted:Edit: /\ I agree it can't just be a reset button though. I just hope the show handles it better than the comics. I mean, it more or less has to.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 14:10
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:I mean its not been spelled out, but yea its most likely. Though this straight up could be her being controlled by a outside force as well. I'm just hoping they are a bit more sensitive to mental trauma and illness and not do the usual "all you needed to do is accept this terrible thing and you'll be normal again!". I don't think there will be somebody/something actually controlling Wanda to do this. It all seems to personal to her. There might well be some entity subtly influencing her - perhaps the "devil" that Agnes mentioned in Episode 2. Wanda is obviously incredibly powerful, but she's also incredibly vulnerable due to her grief and trauma. So, of course she'd be susceptible to a suggestion for a way to get Vision back and live "happily ever after" - especially if she thought they were her own idea. Granted that what Wanda has done so far is pretty awful. She's basically enslaved an entire town to support her Sitcom Heaven - including two black people. As visuals go, not the best. That said, there's nothing she's done that can't be ended or "undone." Nobody's dead or suffered some horrid, permanent fate yet. It's also clear that Wanda isn't doing this out of greed or sadism. I suspect that we'll learn that as long as they're not "on camera" most people in Westview get to live their lives normally - except that they can't actually leave. Figure once this situation is resolved, nobody in Westview will be entering any "Spend a day with the Avengers" contests anytime soon.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 15:13
|
|
|
It would make sense if this took place in Nightmare's realm, since it seems the most appropriate way that her powers could be amplified to be able to accomplish this. The other townspeople may be innocent dreamers brought in by Nightmare to make the illusion seem more real. She might not even realize that they're real people, just components of a dream that she can control as she wishes.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 15:39
|
|
|
Everyone posted:I don't think there will be somebody/something actually controlling Wanda to do this. It all seems to personal to her. There might well be some entity subtly influencing her - perhaps the "devil" that Agnes mentioned in Episode 2. Wanda is obviously incredibly powerful, but she's also incredibly vulnerable due to her grief and trauma. So, of course she'd be susceptible to a suggestion for a way to get Vision back and live "happily ever after" - especially if she thought they were her own idea. I feel there's definitely another force influencing her based entirely on the children. The first episode has people casually asking why they don't already have children while the second episode has the very cult-like "FOR THE CHILDREN." Somebody wants her to want kids.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 15:46
|
|
|
Everyone posted:That said, there's nothing she's done that can't be ended or "undone." Nobody's dead or suffered some horrid, permanent fate yet. Pretty sure they'll all have horrific PTSD after this. Barring nonconsensual(?) mindwipes. How many people do you think randomly got into violent accidents and were unable to seek or receive help? Even assuming that the worst of what has happened is limited to the two incidents of violence that we've seen, living with the semiconcious knowledge that you're someone's living Munster doll is deeply hosed. Emma Caulfield's character didn't seem to understand blood. The only reason her hand isn't an infected pustulent* abscess is because this isn't that kind of show. *Apparently the word is NOT "pussy". Open Source Idiom fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Jan 25, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 15:47
|
|
|
Gavok posted:I feel there's definitely another force influencing her based entirely on the children. The first episode has people casually asking why they don't already have children while the second episode has the very cult-like "FOR THE CHILDREN." Somebody wants her to want kids. Wanda is a young woman in a relationship with an android and her entire family had died. I imagine that kids were very much on her own mind.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 15:50
|
|
|
Jedit posted:Wanda is a young woman in a relationship with an android and her entire family had died. I imagine that kids were very much on her own mind. Then she wouldn't need a bunch of people mindlessly repeating "FOR THE CHILDREN" at her.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 15:55
|
|
|
Everyone posted:I don't think there will be somebody/something actually controlling Wanda to do this. It all seems to personal to her. There might well be some entity subtly influencing her - perhaps the "devil" that Agnes mentioned in Episode 2. I don't see how someone could be controlling her, given that she demonstrably has control of the situation. Influencing, sure, but I don't see how it's possible someone could be controlling her, yet she's the one acting to prevent anyone changing the bubble she's living in in ways that she doesn't approve of. Gavok posted:Then she wouldn't need a bunch of people mindlessly repeating "FOR THE CHILDREN" at her. Those people, or at least their actions, may be a reflection of her subconscious. Which, given that after she became pregnant she just accepted it rather than erasing it, she has to have some desire to have kids. tsob fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Jan 25, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 16:27
|
|
|
Gavok posted:Then she wouldn't need a bunch of people mindlessly repeating "FOR THE CHILDREN" at her. I think it's her subconscious. Like that's also the reason for twins. They couldn't decide on a name, and combine that with the fact Wanda herself was a twin, and poof, you have both Tommy and Billy.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 16:29
|
|
|
Open Source Idiom posted:Pretty sure they'll all have horrific PTSD after this. Barring nonconsensual(?) mindwipes. Autofill can be really "fun" sometimes. I generally agree with you. You could delve into some deep psychological horror stuff with this. Who says that Dottie and her husband even knew each other before Wanda's narrative stuck them together as a married couple who probably has sex? I think that there's a really interesting show in the idea of the aftermath of some place dealing with a supernatural/superpowered disaster. But yeah, there'll be some kind of general mind wipe "for their own good" because we're not sticking around Westview to see their story. We're following Wanda into the Multiverse of Madness to see hers.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 16:49
|
|
|
tsob posted:I don't see how someone could be controlling her, given that she demonstrably has control of the situation. Influencing, sure, but I don't see how it's possible someone could be controlling her, yet she's the one acting to prevent anyone changing the bubble she's living in in ways that she doesn't approve of. I can’t see how the end of episodes two and three would jive with her not being in complete control. Particularly the “no” scene from episode two. At best it seems like some entity might be trying to influence her and failing at that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 16:52
|
|
|
Trying to think outside of the box, my personal theory for this show is that this Wanda and Vision are actually from the timeline where the Avengers went to get the stones in endgame. Thanos left that timeline and died in the MCU, and that's why Vision is still alive. SWORD exists in this timeline instead of SHIELD, which is why we've never heard of it in the MCU before. The end of this show will some how involve merging into the MCU, possibly giving us Vision back.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 17:32
|
|
|
Vision seems too befuddled to actually be alive. He's only starting to question the oddities around him, like what the company he works for does etc. but is still blindly accepting of other things, and Wanda has no problem simply rewinding him to stop him coming to a full realization. If he's alive, then Wanda is basically torturing him too. Which I very much doubt, since the entire reason for the illusion seems to be to create a happy life with him in the first place.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 17:58
|
|
|
Edmund Lava posted:I can’t see how the end of episodes two and three would jive with her not being in complete control. Particularly the “no” scene from episode two. At best it seems like some entity might be trying to influence her and failing at that. I dont feel like she's in complete control, a part of her definitely is but not her conscious mind, she seems as confused at times as everyone else. I wonder if the weirdness at the end is what's pushing the show into the newer genres. Something happens that starts to make Wanda wake a little so the part of her that's constructing this reality changes things to try and find a setting she's less likely to question.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 18:15
|
|
|
Batmasterson posted:Trying to think outside of the box, my personal theory for this show is that this Wanda and Vision are actually from the timeline where the Avengers went to get the stones in endgame. Thanos left that timeline and died in the MCU, and that's why Vision is still alive. SWORD exists in this timeline instead of SHIELD, which is why we've never heard of it in the MCU before. The end of this show will some how involve merging into the MCU, possibly giving us Vision back. I have a bunch of dumb fan theories and one of them is that indeed this Vision is from another timeline. Is not our Vision-Vision. And yeah, I hadn't realized that they "won" in that other timeline/dimension. Thanos died before his time so he never snapped half the universe. So there's a chance that things went out differently for the world. All the Avengers are together, no one died, etc. Or a new bad guy is thriving there *coffs*galactus*coffs* and will be pulled in to the original MCU time line. There's also Loki's seemingly dimensional-time traveling adventures which I guess will be linked to Wandavision and Dr. Strange's new movie.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 18:43
|
|
|
Codependent Poster posted:I think it's her subconscious. Exactly. Just because Wanda is moulding this world, doesn't mean she's aware of what she's doing. She's in the midst of a full-on psychotic break and in clear denial of reality.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 18:59
|
|
|
Big Mean Jerk posted:I highly doubt this’ll end with Wanda as a Phase 4 villain since a) she’s clearly constructed this false reality as a response to her own recent traumas and b) there’s probably something/someone else influencing her and taking advantage of those traumas for some yet-to-be-revealed purpose. You don't necessarily have to turn her into a big, permanent villain. She started out as a minor villain in Age of Ultron and Bucky went from a primary antagonist as the Winter Soldier to an unstable weapon that needed mental reconditioning to finally becoming a full hero now. There's no reason Wanda can't be so unstable that she briefly becomes "villainous" before people are finally able to get to her and reverse her course before she's irredeemable.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 19:00
|
|
|
I am 100% convinced that Pietro is going to end up being a Becky situation on the Roseanne episode. Aaron Taylor-Johnson is there for half the episode, then walks out and Evan Peters walks in and everyone acknowledges him as Pietro except for Wanda.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 19:00
|
|
|
Macdeo Lurjtux posted:I dont feel like she's in complete control, a part of her definitely is but not her conscious mind, she seems as confused at times as everyone else. I wonder if the weirdness at the end is what's pushing the show into the newer genres. Something happens that starts to make Wanda wake a little so the part of her that's constructing this reality changes things to try and find a setting she's less likely to question. She's only confused looking when it's innocuous oddities. As soon as anything threatens to blow the strangeness of her new reality she immediately drops any hint of confusion, and both acts and speaks in a different, more confident manner. Rejecting the thing threatening to destroy what's around her, and then shifting back to her somewhat bemused character. Only, it lasted a bit longer this episode after ejecting Geraldine from Westview, because she still has a somewhat ominous tone of voice when Vision comes in and seems fully aware of what happened. If she's confused then it seems to be either an act, or purposefully clouding her own mind and only allowing her real persona out when something is threatening her new reality. I don't feel like it's someone else clouding her perceptions, because the timing of her taking control and then going back to a slightly confused persona is too convenient to be on the part of someone else.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 19:17
|
|
|
Batmasterson posted:Trying to think outside of the box, my personal theory for this show is that this Wanda and Vision are actually from the timeline where the Avengers went to get the stones in endgame. Thanos left that timeline and died in the MCU, and that's why Vision is still alive. SWORD exists in this timeline instead of SHIELD, which is why we've never heard of it in the MCU before. The end of this show will some how involve merging into the MCU, possibly giving us Vision back. I really like this theory, but then I just realized that it doesn't match up with the big Vision/Agnes moment from the trailer.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 19:45
|
|
|
Phylodox posted:I am 100% convinced that Pietro is going to end up being a Becky situation on the Roseanne episode. Aaron Taylor-Johnson is there for half the episode, then walks out and Evan Peters walks in and everyone acknowledges him as Pietro except for Wanda. I think it would be better if the reverse, everyone else notices the difference, and Wanda It's A Good Life Style drags everyone into accepting it, for fear of getting chucked into the corn
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 20:03
|
|
|
One thing I learned from the Vanity Fair WandaVision podcast is that not only is the next episode a Family Ties riff, it's specifically a riff on the Tom Hanks episode, where Hanks plays the fun uncle who turns out to be an alcoholic and drinks a bottle of vanilla extract because it's the only booze in the house. Which leads me to think the uncle has to be Pietro, right? Or is that too literal?
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 20:12
|
|
|
tsob posted:She's only confused looking when it's innocuous oddities. As soon as anything threatens to blow the strangeness of her new reality she immediately drops any hint of confusion, and both acts and speaks in a different, more confident manner. Rejecting the thing threatening to destroy what's around her, and then shifting back to her somewhat bemused character. Only, it lasted a bit longer this episode after ejecting Geraldine from Westview, because she still has a somewhat ominous tone of voice when Vision comes in and seems fully aware of what happened. If she's confused then it seems to be either an act, or purposefully clouding her own mind and only allowing her real persona out when something is threatening her new reality. I don't feel like it's someone else clouding her perceptions, because the timing of her taking control and then going back to a slightly confused persona is too convenient to be on the part of someone else. As I said earlier, the confusion is only really apparent in the scene with Dottie, and that could easily be "Oh poo poo she just smashed that glass and is bleeding everywhere, I didn't mean that. The helicopter is easily read as she knew something had made the sounds the night before and went looking. Plus she seems very specific in saying she doesn't mean anyone in Westview any harm to Dottie, which... is not something a sitcom character would say. It's something the kid wishing people to the cornfield would say to convince themselves they're the good guy.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 20:17
|
|
|
howe_sam posted:One thing I learned from the Vanity Fair WandaVision podcast is that not only is the next episode a Family Ties riff, it's specifically a riff on the Tom Hanks episode, where Hanks plays the fun uncle who turns out to be an alcoholic and drinks a bottle of vanilla extract because it's the only booze in the house. Which leads me to think the uncle has to be Pietro, right? Or is that too literal? Ultron is Vision’s... father? Wanda’s... cousin?
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 20:43
|
|
|
Klungar posted:Ultron is Vision’s... father? Wanda’s... cousin? Wait, how would Ultron be Wanda's cousin?
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 20:46
|
|
|
thrawn527 posted:Wait, how would Ultron be Wanda's cousin? I guess I was thinking they both were progeny of the Mind Stone to an effect but Ultron actually didn’t have any relation to the Mind Stone, did he?
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 20:50
|
|
|
Klungar posted:I guess I was thinking they both were progeny of the Mind Stone to an effect but Ultron actually didn’t have any relation to the Mind Stone, did he? Wanda wasn't born of the Mind Stone, though. She was already a person, and experimented on with the Mind Stone. I'd hardly say that makes her a "progeny of the Mind Stone".
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 20:58
|
|
|
Klungar posted:I guess I was thinking they both were progeny of the Mind Stone to an effect but Ultron actually didn’t have any relation to the Mind Stone, did he? Sure he did. Tony found an AI in either Loki's scepter, or the Mind Stone itself, and turned that into Ultron.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 21:02
|
|
|
howe_sam posted:Sure he did. Tony found an AI in either Loki's scepter, or the Mind Stone itself, and turned that into Ultron. What a dumb loving idea that was
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 21:03
|
|
|
howe_sam posted:Sure he did. Tony found an AI in either Loki's scepter, or the Mind Stone itself, and turned that into Ultron. This is what I get for trying to think about plot points from Age of Ultron. thrawn527 posted:Wanda wasn't born of the Mind Stone, though. She was already a person, and experimented on with the Mind Stone. I'd hardly say that makes her a "progeny of the Mind Stone". Wanda’s not, but the Scarlet Witch certainly is. Whatever is going on here is only possible because of what the Mind Stone did to Wanda.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 21:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 09:17 |
|
|
howe_sam posted:One thing I learned from the Vanity Fair WandaVision podcast is that not only is the next episode a Family Ties riff, it's specifically a riff on the Tom Hanks episode, where Hanks plays the fun uncle who turns out to be an alcoholic and drinks a bottle of vanilla extract because it's the only booze in the house. Which leads me to think the uncle has to be Pietro, right? Or is that too literal? If it's Pietro and if it's really Evan Peters the actor I will know be more interested in finding out HOW that happened. Does Wanda don't remember her brother? Is Evan's character another agent of SWORD pretending to be Pietro to get information out of her?
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2021 21:51
|
|