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There is entirely too much power creep after Changes. Also the rapist creep factor is cranked up to 11.
Some Pinko Commie fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Feb 1, 2021 |
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Feb 1, 2021 15:45
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biracial bear for uncut posted:There is entirely too much power creep after Changes. Also the rapist creep factor is cranked up to 11. I admit I kind of like seeing how Butcher still pulls off "Harry Dresden now has the Infinity Gauntlet and power like unto God Almighty himself. Boy is he ever the underdog in this story." I will say that it's been a while since I read 13, 14 and 15, but I remember noting a steep decline in the creepy White Court stuff. 16 and 17 were kind of nice because of how Dresden didn't constantly drone on about [insert female character's] Awesome Beyoobage.
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Feb 1, 2021 21:08
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I think people are still salty about Harry's comment in Peace Talks about Ivy's hips. The male gazey stuff has gotten way better as the series as gone on. It's still not perfect, but compare Peace Talks to Storm Front and it is a world of difference.
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Feb 1, 2021 21:43
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Soysaucebeast posted:I think people are still salty about Harry's comment in Peace Talks about Ivy's hips. The male gazey stuff has gotten way better as the series as gone on. It's still not perfect, but compare Peace Talks to Storm Front and it is a world of difference. Isn't one of the plot points in Storm Front about the wacky hijinks that ensue when Harry accidentally gives Susan a date-rape potion? I'm fine with hips compared to that.
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Feb 2, 2021 04:04
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Finished Changes. It had a lot of stuff in it, and I enjoyed it. The climactic battle is one of the most exhilarating I've read. Although I wished everyone could participate, what transpired is so bonkers I am fine with it. Loved Bob's role. I feel nothing about someone's betrayal and that someone's death, which is fitting for this nothing of a someone. I really feel Dresden's desperation here, and in the sense of how this brings him to his lowest point yet, Changes does feel like a momentous 'finale'. The ending is ballsy and I bet the 17 months wait until Ghost Story was painful for the fans. There was a description of Black Council being 'a lot of mysterious figures in black robes' who 'infiltrate and corrupt every supernatural nation they could get to'. I don't remember these, is it just more background events? The 'supernatural nation' reminds me of the attack on Arctic Tor, but that's not Black Council. The calling up the "Outsiders" is also foreign to me. Is the change after Changes really that drastic? It's still Urban Fantasy, I hope, so I'm guessing the private investigator part is cut down even more?
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Feb 2, 2021 04:30
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toanoradian posted:
It's not as bad as biracial bear for uncut is saying. He's our resident "you can't like this because I don't like it" guy. Nothing after Changes is as bad as the first couple of novels. However, there is a drop in quality overall in the most recent books. Peace Talks is probably the worst novel since those first two, Ghost Story is kind of divisive, and Skin Game an entirely average Dresden Files book. Frankly it's kind of forgettable. A big part of the change in perception is that the Urban Fantasy genre kind of up and left Jim Butcher behind while he was on his multi-year hiatus, so a return to "average Dresden Files" book seems worse than it is.
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Feb 2, 2021 04:52
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Ah, since I don't read any other urban fantasy books, I should be fine. (though if I dropped Dresden Files, where should I go next if I want more mystery plots?)
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Feb 2, 2021 05:02
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toanoradian posted:Ah, since I don't read any other urban fantasy books, I should be fine. Alex Verus series is good tight underdog combat, very fast paced action, lots of similar issues to what we see in Dresden, a bit darker. Rivers of London series is overall better-written than Dresden and has a multi-racial protagonist but is extremely british in a way that annoys some people.
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Feb 2, 2021 05:09
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Craft Sequence, but that's more fantasy in urban settings, rather than magic in real-world cities
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Feb 2, 2021 05:16
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toanoradian posted:Ah, since I don't read any other urban fantasy books, I should be fine. Rivers of London is very very good. I also really like the October Daye series. Before I read those two, Dresden Files was a series I really liked but constantly was thinking I really wish it would focus more on mysteries and treated it's female characters better. They both replaced The Dresden Files as my favorite urban fantasy books very quickly.
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Feb 2, 2021 08:01
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ConfusedUs posted:It's not as bad as biracial bear for uncut is saying. He's our resident "you can't like this because I don't like it" guy. First read through, I hated ghost story. Now, I quite like it. I mean, it's the weakest in the changes trilogy but it isn't too bad second time round. The last two books are definitely stronger when read as one large book, too.
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Feb 2, 2021 09:09
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toanoradian posted:Finished Changes. It had a lot of stuff in it, and I enjoyed it. The climactic battle is one of the most exhilarating I've read. Although I wished everyone could participate, what transpired is so bonkers I am fine with it. Loved Bob's role. I feel nothing about someone's betrayal and that someone's death, which is fitting for this nothing of a someone. I really feel Dresden's desperation here, and in the sense of how this brings him to his lowest point yet, Changes does feel like a momentous 'finale'. The ending is ballsy and I bet the 17 months wait until Ghost Story was painful for the fans. The black council have been around, as have Outsiders. For example, Cowl and sidekick in Dead beat, Peabody in Turn coat (he also summoned an Outsider when caught). Arctic Tor might have been Black council or might have been someone else, it's pretty mysterious. Ghost story is a bit more investigatey than recent books, and I rather like Cold days and Skin game. Peace talks is definitely the low point of the series for me, but even then some of its problems are lessened by having Battleground already waiting so it's more like the weaker half of a long book. For another series, the John Charming books have a fair bit of research and investigation. I like em.
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Feb 2, 2021 11:42
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toanoradian posted:Finished Changes. It had a lot of stuff in it, and I enjoyed it. The climactic battle is one of the most exhilarating I've read. Although I wished everyone could participate, what transpired is so bonkers I am fine with it. Loved Bob's role. I feel nothing about someone's betrayal and that someone's death, which is fitting for this nothing of a someone. I really feel Dresden's desperation here, and in the sense of how this brings him to his lowest point yet, Changes does feel like a momentous 'finale'. The ending is ballsy and I bet the 17 months wait until Ghost Story was painful for the fans. The outsiders summoning was happening off screen during the big battles between the council and the vampires.
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Feb 2, 2021 13:18
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toanoradian posted:Finished Changes. It had a lot of stuff in it, and I enjoyed it. The climactic battle is one of the most exhilarating I've read. Although I wished everyone could participate, what transpired is so bonkers I am fine with it. Loved Bob's role. I feel nothing about someone's betrayal and that someone's death, which is fitting for this nothing of a someone. I really feel Dresden's desperation here, and in the sense of how this brings him to his lowest point yet, Changes does feel like a momentous 'finale'. The ending is ballsy and I bet the 17 months wait until Ghost Story was painful for the fans. One, the quality goes down. Not to trash, but, the average is below the average before Changes. Two, and for me the important part, it stops being books, and turns to chapters in a frankly stupid and unimaginative overarching story. Butcher is not good at that. His giant conspiracy stories are entertaining in the moment, but the story suffers. He dipped his toe in that kind of thing in a short story about Thomas and it was terrible. So, the change is drastic in a sense. No more casebooks, no more detective, no more truly self-contained books. He finally reached the height of that by breaking his most recent book into two books, separating them in price and by months of release.
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Feb 2, 2021 14:44
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It helps (me) to think of the Dresden Files as superhero fiction rather than "urban fantasy" (in the specific "noir/detective stories with fantasy elements" mode that term is often shorthand for). I definitely agree that the quality dips a bit after Changes (with the exception of Ghost Story which is my favorite book in the entire series; this is an, um, contentious opinion), but certainly not to the point of unreadability (though Peace Talks on its own without Battle Ground puts that to the loving test). Anyway, read until you stop having fun, then read some of the other suggestions people in this thread have. I'll definitely second Ben Aaronovich's "Rivers of London" series; bear in mind that it actually does stay consistently closer to Police Procedural With Magic In, so it's got a bit of a different feel to the Dresden books. I also like Kat Richardson's "Greywalker" series specifically as magical PI fiction, though I'm kind of in the minority there (and I will certainly grant that the first couple books are very rough, though not as rough as early Dresden). I really need to get 'round to reading the Alex Verus books.
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Feb 2, 2021 15:05
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The Glumslinger posted:Craft Sequence, but that's more fantasy in urban settings, rather than magic in real-world cities Craft Sequence is fantastic and while I wouldn't strictly call it urban fantasy it does have some of the same bones.
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Feb 2, 2021 15:10
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To be fair, dropping the 'detective' thing entirely is probably the best thing that Butcher can do as all the ones I read convinced me that Butcher is a loving awful detective/noir story writer.
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Feb 2, 2021 18:58
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Kchama posted:To be fair, dropping the 'detective' thing entirely is probably the best thing that Butcher can do as all the ones I read convinced me that Butcher is a loving awful detective/noir story writer. Yeah, I was less that and more the losing of discrete storylines.
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Feb 2, 2021 20:03
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I know it's not Urban Fantasy, but I enjoyed his work on the Aeronaut's Windlass and hope he gets around to writing another one.
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Feb 3, 2021 08:38
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ConfusedUs posted:It's not as bad as biracial bear for uncut is saying. He's our resident "you can't like this because I don't like it" guy. There is a difference between saying "You can't like this because I don't like it" and "Why do you like this awful stuff?" It's like the Iron Druid series. I liked the general concept and the world around the main character, but hated the main character himself and had a hard time enjoying the books because of that. If more of the series had been about a less-abrasive "Archdruid" character like the one that was introduced late in the series and rebuilding the practice of training druids and their role on Earth/how they interact with it, that would have been a lot more interesting to read. Same thing goes for Dresden, except more characters are shitbags with shallow characterizations and things get boring as gently caress, which is a terrible thing for a series. Also the loving boot-licking Butcher does for the Chicago police is eye-rolling as all hell. Darkrenown posted:For another series, the John Charming books have a fair bit of research and investigation. I like em. Is that series still ongoing? I lost track of it around the time the last Libriomancer book this thread talked about came out (which is another series that does some interesting things, but has a cringey protagonist). I've recently picked up the Wayward Children books and they're interesting too, but not strictly Urban Fantasy since most of the action happens when people travel to alternate worlds (also they may be a bit Young-Adult Fiction for some readers, which isn't a bad thing, I mostly picked up on it because Amazon recommended them because I read the Murderbot novels). I kinda wish the Felix Castor series was still ongoing because that was an interesting Urban Fantasy series that still had room to grow after the Big Bad was shut down at the end (but there were still a bunch of other Bad Guys running around doing poo poo).
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Feb 3, 2021 12:58
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Is that series still ongoing? I lost track of it around the time the last Libriomancer book this thread talked about came out (which is another series that does some interesting things, but has a cringey protagonist). You're in luck, as Libriomancer has ended for good. I don't know what the author is moving on to but he said he's done with that series.
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Feb 3, 2021 16:17
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Is that series still ongoing? I lost track of it around the time the last Libriomancer book this thread talked about came out (which is another series that does some interesting things, but has a cringey protagonist). #5 came out in 2017, so I guess it's done. Nothing happened that would prevent more books with the author wanted to, though.
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Feb 3, 2021 17:13
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Amazon recommended them because I read the Murderbot novels How were these? I'm intrigued, but was put off a bit by the price-to-page ratio.
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Feb 3, 2021 18:12
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docbeard posted:How were these? I'm intrigued, but was put off a bit by the price-to-page ratio. They were 2020's #1 reason to figure out your local library's eBook lending system.
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Feb 3, 2021 18:24
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compared to the usual dollar:time:enjoyment ratio they were above average in value
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Feb 3, 2021 18:29
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docbeard posted:How were these? I'm intrigued, but was put off a bit by the price-to-page ratio. Murderbot's one of the best things to hit SF in a while. The price to page is because it's good enough to get away with it.
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Feb 3, 2021 18:38
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docbeard posted:How were these? I'm intrigued, but was put off a bit by the price-to-page ratio. Insanely good. Murderbot is a hilarious point of view protagonist.
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Feb 3, 2021 18:40
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Murderbot is good.
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Feb 3, 2021 18:59
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Ok, I've never even heard of Murderbot, but I just sent a sample of the first one to my kindle. I won't have a chance to read it for a few hours, but in the meantime, what's it about/what's so good about it?
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Feb 3, 2021 19:05
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docbeard posted:How were these? I'm intrigued, but was put off a bit by the price-to-page ratio. They're enjoyable, but I only read a couple because of how little book there is for the price.
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Feb 3, 2021 19:06
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Soysaucebeast posted:Ok, I've never even heard of Murderbot, but I just sent a sample of the first one to my kindle. I won't have a chance to read it for a few hours, but in the meantime, what's it about/what's so good about it? Just a really really well drawn, very sympathetic point of view character, an android killing machine who doesn't want to be a killing machine at all, but also doesn't particularly like people because they have all those messy emotions. I'll let Murderbot speak for itself: quote:I could have become a mass murderer after I hacked my governor module, but then I realized I could access the combined feed of entertainment channels carried on the company satellites. It had been well over 35,000 hours or so since then, with still not much murdering, but probably, I don’t know, a little under 35,000 hours of movies, serials, books, plays, and music consumed. As a heartless killing machine, I was a terrible failure. That's the hook for the first story, if you like that keep going.
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Feb 3, 2021 19:11
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:That's the hook for the first story, if you like that keep going. Was coming here to post that.
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Feb 3, 2021 19:11
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The Murderbot shorts were free through TOR Books before the novel dropped. They put out some good free stuff once in a while! https://ebookclub.tor.com/
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Feb 3, 2021 19:29
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Murderbot's one of the best things to hit SF in a while. The price to page is because it's good enough to get away with it. I need to check that out. Right now I'm burning through Tamsyn Muir's "Ninth" trilogy and feeling the premature agony of realizing that I'm alomst finished with Harrow the Ninth and I have to wait for loving 2022 to get the third book. I admit that I didn't think that "Far-future lesbian necromancers - in space" would be my cuppa. And in other hands it likely wouldn't be. But god-drat are these books ever great. They're kind of like "Warhammer 40K meets Buffy the Vampire Slayer." Except really well-written, too.
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Feb 3, 2021 19:44
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Someone else who likes the Wayward Children series! I agree it's a bit YA but I was impressed with the creativity of the worlds and I felt the characters had distinct voices (something I think seanans other work has struggled with).
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Feb 3, 2021 20:34
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Sloth Life posted:Someone else who likes the Wayward Children series! I agree it's a bit YA but I was impressed with the creativity of the worlds and I felt the characters had distinct voices (something I think seanans other work has struggled with). I like how she doesn't shy away from unhappy endings, too. Just finished the one about Lundy and the Goblin Market and that was a downer of an ending.
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Feb 3, 2021 20:51
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Everyone posted:I need to check that out. Right now I'm burning through Tamsyn Muir's "Ninth" trilogy and feeling the premature agony of realizing that I'm alomst finished with Harrow the Ninth and I have to wait for loving 2022 to get the third book. I admit that I didn't think that "Far-future lesbian necromancers - in space" would be my cuppa. And in other hands it likely wouldn't be. But god-drat are these books ever great. They're kind of like "Warhammer 40K meets Buffy the Vampire Slayer." Except really well-written, too. I loving love the Ninth series so much. I just finished Naomi Novik’s A Deadly Education which is a dark take on wizard boarding school and I enjoyed the hell out of it. I’m mad that the sequel won’t be available until June of this year, though it’s definitely better than the wait time on Alecto the Ninth DreamingofRoses fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Feb 4, 2021 |
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Feb 4, 2021 01:09
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DreamingofRoses posted:I loving love the Ninth series so much. i like a deadly education an unreasonable amount. its my goto comfort re-read - i think ive read it like 7 or 8 times now. I have no idea why but everything about it just makes me happy . It's up there with murderbot, for me.
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Feb 4, 2021 01:33
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I read the blurb for the first Ninth book and it didn't grab me, can someone sell me on it?
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Feb 4, 2021 01:47
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Darkrenown posted:I read the blurb for the first Ninth book and it didn't grab me, can someone sell me on it? dont read if you dont like um murder mysteries, i guess? or bones? if you hate descriptions of bones you probably wont dig it. honestly enough people here like it that its worth throwing the ten bucks at it just to play the odds
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Feb 4, 2021 02:08
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