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Space flight has existed for 60+ years, no one born after 1935 has been to the moon. Large parts of space technology that at one point was some super special thing thing only a government could deal with are just not that anymore. A television broadcasting company can design a satellite. teenagers have made functional microsats. It's not cutting edge anymore. space based technology is just a thing now. Every single launch doesn't need to involve a huge social program to fund it. It's fine and good for a program like NASA to keep moving forward as technologies they pioneered mature. Let nasa work on pure science, let them design actual missions to actually expand human knowledge and use tax money to better society with new things. They don't have to be some weird only source of every single thing they ever did forever. For a while only the military could afford computers but we don't need to call them up every time we buy a new playstation. It's fine there is more than one organization doing orbital launches. There should be that. It's an ancient technology at this point. It's crazy to make every single launch part of a direct social program.
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Feb 3, 2021 23:51
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:What are you basing that on? The speed of the rocket when the thing broke.
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Feb 4, 2021 00:26
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Space flight has existed for 60+ years, no one born after 1935 has been to the moon. There is a finite amount of space in which orbiting objects can exist while still allowing for further launches, which is, year by year, becoming choked with space debris. The damage caused by every launch is already socialised because we all suffer from the burden of space junk.
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Feb 4, 2021 00:54
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I feel like capitalizing/privatizing space is a mistake. Maybe in 1000 years.
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Feb 4, 2021 03:34
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Space flight has existed for 60+ years, no one born after 1935 has been to the moon. haha we live in the decrepit future
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Feb 4, 2021 03:41
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How are u posted:I guess its fun to make fun of failure, but...this is what advancing technology looks like. You build poo poo, test it, learn from failure, and repeat. How do you think we put American Astronauts on the Moon? Importing Nazi war criminals, which I don't think is an option for SpaceX.
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Feb 4, 2021 03:42
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Agents are GO! posted:Importing Nazi war criminals, which I don't think is an option for SpaceX. Look we got a guy who's family made their fortune on african blood emeralds instead, it's close enough.
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Feb 4, 2021 03:43
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Agents are GO! posted:Importing Nazi war criminals, which I don't think is an option for SpaceX.  UAH's "Wernher Von Braun Research Hall" is the only building on a us university's campus im aware of that is proudly named after a prominent literal nazi. dumpy rear end building lol i don't think spacex would have problem importing or hiring war criminals, if they had the right skillset and pedigree, tbqh
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Feb 4, 2021 03:47
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How did we go to the moon? Idk we had 1970s US able to mobilize the entire country for a goal? Something we couldn't do now if it saved half a million plus lives.
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Feb 4, 2021 03:50
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Don Gato posted:Look we got a guy who's family made their fortune on african blood emeralds instead, it's close enough. I dont know if theres quite enough suffering involved yet. Maybe we can get Nestle and FoxConn involved?
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Feb 4, 2021 04:09
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:How did we go to the moon? Was the goal to go back in time to the 60s and help those people get to the moon?
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Feb 4, 2021 04:12
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:How did we go to the moon? By spending loads of cash to own the commies?
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Feb 4, 2021 04:20
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Somewhat relevantly, I re-listened to Kennedy's We choose to go to the moon speech a couple of weeks ago and it's still amazing.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:32
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60s*. I mean when did we start using russian Soyuz modules to get people up to ISS?
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Feb 4, 2021 04:34
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Nationalize SpaceX and rename it to NASAX
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Feb 4, 2021 04:34
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Let's not forget that Musk's (and Bezos's) ultimate goal for Mars is literal slave labor.
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Feb 4, 2021 04:48
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Does it count as evil if it's too stupid to ever be plausible?
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Feb 4, 2021 05:05
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Detective No. 27 posted:Let's not forget that Musk's (and Bezos's) ultimate goal for Mars is literal slave labor. Also for Earth.
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Feb 4, 2021 05:21
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Detective No. 27 posted:Let's not forget that Musk's (and Bezos's) ultimate goal for Mars is literal slave labor.  Just you and me Miner!
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Feb 4, 2021 05:35
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Senor Tron posted:Somewhat relevantly, I re-listened to Kennedy's We choose to go to the moon speech a couple of weeks ago and it's still amazing. Seriously? Dude tosses out "and do the other thing" like he's a grandpa who forgot the chore list.
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Feb 4, 2021 10:07
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The best JFK speech is the one where he literally argues for M4A
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Feb 4, 2021 10:13
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x1o posted:Nationalize SpaceX and rename it to NASAX This, but in practice it couldn't currently work because there are too many republicans and pro business melts in Congress and anything that the government does becomes a combination of pork barrel spending and thinly disguised handouts to private subcontractors where taking 3x longer and spending 20x more on a program than necessary is a desired feature.
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Feb 4, 2021 11:04
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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I mean look at basic poo poo like the USPS (literally sabotaged) the F35 (amazingly successful at making well connected rich people richer) and the VA (lol)
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Feb 4, 2021 11:07
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Motronic posted:Yeah, this is treating spaceflight like a cult of agile-run software development project. It's a bit disturbing. Who cares? Obviously for man rating the thing NASA and/or whoever else gets to certify commercial space poo poo should go over anything in the final design with a fine toothed comb but for the cheapo unmanned cargo delivery role blowing up a few more space water towers isn't a problem.
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Feb 4, 2021 11:12
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No you dont want anything to explode in space, especially within reach of earth, because the debris stays up there in orbit. And ideally putting things up into space shoild be rigorously controlled because one idiot can gently caress up space for decades because of a Kessler event. Because one day someones day will get hosed up by a 30 gram nut traveling at several times the speed of sound.
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Feb 4, 2021 14:56
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Rigged Death Trap posted:No you dont want anything to explode in space, especially within reach of earth, because the debris stays up there in orbit. And ideally putting things up into space shoild be rigorously controlled because one idiot can gently caress up space for decades because of a Kessler event. Obviously space should be controlled to keep things from randomly exploding. But it's not like nasa has never had an explosion and making everything government run prevents all disasters. NASA has lost a ton of human life. It's also not like non-governmental space technology is nonexistent. Most satellites now are commercial already. And it's not like non-governmental things have to explode. Air flight is a worldwide technology that makes millions of flights between failures. It's not even like companies don't already build rockets. Lockhead martin already was manufacturing much of nasa's launch stuff. Like of course there needs to be tight regulation. As tight and tigher than air flight, but like, do that then. Don't just put one random step of the technology in a weird limbo state of only being able to be done by one governmental organization then cutting that organization until it can't operate. It's fine.
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Feb 4, 2021 15:37
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I would love nothing more than a Keppler event/Ablation cascade to lock us out of space for a few hundred years to get us to focus on unterraforming Earth instead of pretending we can terraform Mars. And I loving love space. All we're gonna do is burn trillions of public and private money to have a few dozen or hundred people die on Mars, and maaaaybe score an iron-heavy asteroid to make the rich richer while our atmosphere kills us.
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Feb 4, 2021 15:42
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packetmantis posted:Seriously? Dude tosses out "and do the other thing" like he's a grandpa who forgot the chore list. Love that “do the other things” includes “why does Rice play Texas”
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Feb 4, 2021 15:50
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Rigged Death Trap posted:a 30 gram nut traveling at several times the speed of sound. 
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Feb 4, 2021 20:03
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:Obviously space should be controlled to keep things from randomly exploding. It's not just about explosions, Oocc. Every single part of every single space object needs to be recovered. Anything left behind adds to the space junk problem. If a satellite is in orbit and it runs out of power before it is decommissioned, it becomes space junk. If two pieces of space junk hit each other and shatter, every single resulting chunk of that collision becomes its own independent space object that can now collide with other objects and shatter further, leading to a cascade. Nothing stops them except for a collision, and nothing causes their orbits to gradually decay in anything like the near future. If you agree that space should be controlled and the cost of that control be spread to all of us, do you think it's a better idea for independent companies to have to operate underneath that regulatory framework (where they have obvious incentives to try to dodge and manipulate those regulations), or for all of those distributed, competing resources to instead be pooled into a single agency under the same control? You're entirely right that companies can launch their own satellites now. I disagree with that being a good thing.
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Feb 4, 2021 21:58
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Somfin posted:It's not just about explosions, Oocc. Every single part of every single space object needs to be recovered. Anything left behind adds to the space junk problem. If a satellite is in orbit and it runs out of power before it is decommissioned, it becomes space junk. If two pieces of space junk hit each other and shatter, every single resulting chunk of that collision becomes its own independent space object that can now collide with other objects and shatter further, leading to a cascade. Nothing stops them except for a collision, and nothing causes their orbits to gradually decay in anything like the near future. Pooling resources under political control clearly has massive problems.
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Feb 4, 2021 23:13
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Starlink will quadruple the number of objects humans have ever put into space* since Sputnik. *Excluding the weird Project West Ford that has long since deorbited.
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Feb 4, 2021 23:25
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Rigged Death Trap posted:Because one day someones day will get hosed up by a 30 gram nut traveling at several times the speed of sound.
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Feb 4, 2021 23:35
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I don't think regulatory or nationalization efforts are really that viable politically right now; neither Bernie or Biden had anything to say about spaceflight in their campaigns. The world has 1000 problems already that are more immediate to average people and politicians. Even though space debris is an existential danger. SpaceX is just one player in what is really a global problem with space debris, and even national space agencies aren't immune from contributing to it. The most ideal solution would be a global regulatory framework to control all space travel, which I think is impossible at the moment. There just isn't the political will. If the principle concern is making space safe to travel into the future, the most practical approach right now would be that NASA and other space agencies focus on projects like ClearSpace-1 to remove space debris and try to nudge private companies and politicians to consider this issue. Or does someone want to start the Sunrise movement but for space? For SpaceX's part, they have policies to de-orbit their Starlink satellites and program their satellites to avoid space debris using data from the DoD's debris-tracking system. On the other hand they did just pump out a ton of these satellites invariably increasing the risk. America Inc. fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Feb 4, 2021 |
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Feb 4, 2021 23:50
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There have been a range of proposals to remove space junk with various degrees of affordability and practicality. Potentially realistic ideas range from space tugs to deorbit dead sats to pew pew laser arrays that zap tiny bits of trash flying through the volume they're targeting. Once someone loses tens billions of dollars in business or three letter agencies start whining about running out of spy sats faster than they can launch, orbital cleanup will suddenly get funded at a useful level (I would've said if an impact kills someone on the space station but honestly they'll just declare the thing unsalvageable and let it burn up). At the moment much of the problem is probably that nobody has had any incentive to clean up other people's trash so all we're getting is a promise to deorbit dying sats (nothing really bad happens if you """"forget""") and a tiny trickle of funding to proof of concept studies/equipment.
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Feb 5, 2021 00:14
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adoration for none posted:For SpaceX's part, they have policies to de-orbit their Starlink satellites and program their satellites to avoid space debris using data from the DoD's debris-tracking system. On the other hand they did just pump out a ton of these satellites invariably increasing the risk. SpaceX by and large seems willing to cooperate to mitigate the impact of Starlink and their other projects, but their business model is to launch as much stuff into space as quickly and cheaply as possible so relying on their continuing goodwill (and that of their numerous competitors) seems unwise.
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Feb 5, 2021 00:19
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eXXon posted:SpaceX by and large seems willing to cooperate to mitigate the impact of Starlink and their other projects, but their business model is to launch as much stuff into space as quickly and cheaply as possible so relying on their continuing goodwill (and that of their numerous competitors) seems unwise. Really? Last I heard when they put a Starlink satellite on course to (potentially) collide with an ESA satellite, they were basically "no gently caress you, you move out the way". https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonath...pean-satellite/ https://www.esa.int/Safety_Security/ESA_spacecraft_dodges_large_constellation
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Feb 5, 2021 01:43
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This was SpaceX's statement in response in the article: quote:Our Starlink team last exchanged an email with the Aeolus operations team on August 28, when the probability of collision was only in the 2.2e-5 range (or 1 in 50k), well below the 1e-4 (or 1 in 10k) industry standard threshold and 75 times lower than the final estimate. At that point, both SpaceX and ESA determined a maneuver was not necessary. Then, the U.S. Air Force’s updates showed the probability increased to 1.69e-3 (or more than 1 in 10k) but a bug in our on-call paging system prevented the Starlink operator from seeing the follow on correspondence on this probability increase – SpaceX is still investigating the issue and will implement corrective actions. However, had the Starlink operator seen the correspondence, we would have coordinated with ESA to determine best approach with their continuing with their maneuver or our performing a maneuver.” Which is like ok, so you're saying that a single stupid bug in your system could have screwed humanity out of spaceflight for a century? We're probably screwed in regards to this.
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Feb 5, 2021 02:13
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once again i would like to shout into the void with super nova anger that its bullshit that we've some how concluded that sat internet is the solution instead of more fiber. Also car tech and plane tech is old, clearly we should all be driving and flying cars and planes some teen made in their garage, or use 3D printed guns. lol owl cheese.
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Feb 5, 2021 02:15
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PhazonLink posted:once again i would like to shout into the void with super nova anger that its bullshit that we've some how concluded that sat internet is the solution instead of more fiber. Good luck getting fiber laid to aircraft and ships.
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Feb 5, 2021 02:19
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