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I really like 1. It's dense with lore but it takes it's time where it needs to. The story never stops moving though and the Cant crew cycles through a huge number of story locations throughout the season but I appreciate the Miller story being a bit slower and more of a formulaic detective story to settle us into belter culture and the socioeconomic realities of Ceres. Although I don't think both story strands (Miller or the Canterbury crew) tie in very well with Julie Mao. You have Miller putting in requests for information about one ship, meanwhile with Holden learning information about another ship that Julie was in. I found the whole investigation and establishment of JM's movements from Ceres to Phoebe Stn. to Eros confusing and hard to follow on the first watch.
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Feb 4, 2021 11:49
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I am still at an utter loss as to what Marcos plan is. Is it: Take over ring space Stop anyone from leaving Sol Build up the belt Telling the inners to gently caress off Or The above but only belters are allowed to go to new systems
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Feb 4, 2021 12:24
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notaspy posted:I am still at an utter loss as to what Marcos plan is. I assume cut off Sol from the Ring, use his new navy and stealth rocks to keep the system in line and force earth and mars to give over food and technology. Essentially the reverse of the way it was in season 1. But also for Marco to be king emperor and revel in adulation while everybody starves because he's an egotistical fantasist with no good plan for what happens after the big military victory. Also his son is deffo going to try and kill him when he is no longer beneficial to/clearly hampering 'the cause'. :edit: Marco probably assumes the fascist martians will probably kill themselves with the protomolocule too - it's better to have it gone from Sol and let everyone think he has it than risk it being stolen or used against him Aipsh fucked around with this message at 12:34 on Feb 4, 2021 |
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Feb 4, 2021 12:29
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How is the Barkeith's disintegration described in the books? Not looking for plot spoilers, just additional insight into what happened there that that visual medium of the TV show doesn't communicate.
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Feb 4, 2021 12:30
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Fried Watermelon posted:They are building a giant mech body for Marcos to transfer his conscious into Marcos more like Macross amirite
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Feb 4, 2021 12:42
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Bedshaped posted:I really like 1. It's dense with lore but it takes it's time where it needs to. The story never stops moving though and the Cant crew cycles through a huge number of story locations throughout the season but I appreciate the Miller story being a bit slower and more of a formulaic detective story to settle us into belter culture and the socioeconomic realities of Ceres. The strands don't quite tie together because the end of the season is the crew and Miller meeting in the Hotel (and the Mau plot goes on pause there as they try to escape Ceres). Season 1 takes us to the moment where the investigations from both ends meet. E: I think it's also deliberate that you are only slowly supposed to appreciate that Miller and Holden are closing in on the same mystery Alchenar fucked around with this message at 12:54 on Feb 4, 2021 |
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Feb 4, 2021 12:48
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Slashrat posted:How is the Barkeith's disintegration described in the books? Not looking for plot spoilers, just additional insight into what happened there that that visual medium of the TV show doesn't communicate. A distorted experience of consciousness where they feel the space between molecules and atoms and then something else being in the room with them, moving around
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Feb 4, 2021 12:55
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Phanatic posted:The Admiral's lecture was that there aren't any combat advantages that accrue to being on either side of the ring, that it's a chokepoint that inhibits both sides equally. But it is not, it is *much harder* to defend the ring space than it is to attack it. It is much easier to defend the Sol system against attack from the ring space than vice versa. A few pages ago, but one would think that, for someone who named their colony "Laconia", the Admiral would have heard about "a group of few defends strategic chokepoint vs countless enemies" 
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Feb 4, 2021 13:05
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That Italian Guy posted:A few pages ago, but one would think that, for someone who named their colony "Laconia", the Admiral would have heard about "a group of few defends strategic chokepoint vs countless enemies" I thought he said that although there is no advantage in a 1:1 ring fight, the advantage is that a smaller force can control all 1200 systems easily inside the ring.
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Feb 4, 2021 13:40
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mastershakeman posted:I thought it was genius to have him go out that way. So many shows will introduce the "danger of space' or some other situation where every time we do this it's a risk! Except it never is, and becomes common. Then you end up with lightspeed skipping past planets After watching The Last Kingdom and, well, the first seasons of The Expanse, I was getting the impression that it's actually a feature of modern prestige drama that major primary-cast characters will randomly get killed off at arbitrary times, maybe even 4-5 seasons in. Certainly after Shed and Miller and Miller's partner from S1 I was thinking that one of the things that set The Expanse apart from a lot of other shows I'd seen was that it didn't seem to be afraid of killing characters who you thought would be in it for the long haul. With that in mind I can see them offing Alex on purpose, even absent Anvar's shittiness. But in that universe I'm sure they could have done it more gracefully, in a way that made it look like they had planned for it and it wasn't like they were just cobbling together one more appearance of Chef or Princess Leia from their previously recorded lines
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Feb 4, 2021 14:13
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Data Graham posted:After watching The Last Kingdom and, well, the first seasons of The Expanse, I was getting the impression that it's actually a feature of modern prestige drama that major primary-cast characters will randomly get killed off at arbitrary times, maybe even 4-5 seasons in. Certainly after Shed and Miller and Miller's partner from S1 I was thinking that one of the things that set The Expanse apart from a lot of other shows I'd seen was that it didn't seem to be afraid of killing characters who you thought would be in it for the long haul. He got better, but they definitely wanted you to think he was dead. As to you overall point, it's been a thing on television since soap operas, but "proper" television was killing significant leads all over the place since at least Cracker in 1991.
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Feb 4, 2021 14:28
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Open Source Idiom posted:He got better, but they definitely wanted you to think he was dead. That second episode of Spooks was 2002 and now I feel massively old.
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Feb 4, 2021 14:32
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notaspy posted:I am still at an utter loss as to what Marcos plan is. So were you watching on your phone at 1.25x then? He literally says that they will control the gates and the inners won't have access. Which means the death of Earth and Mars is kinda just left to wallow in their own mediocrity. Mars is now the center of food production for the inners but I doubt they'll be able to supply Earth, moons and remaining stations as well as themselves.
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Feb 4, 2021 14:35
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notaspy posted:I am still at an utter loss as to what Marcos plan is. Seems like he found some planets beyond the ring that are hospitable to belters and wanted to colonise them to start a new belter civilization. Made a deal with rebel martians to steal the protomolecule in exchange for their ships and assistance. Marcos gets a fresh start free from the inners, the rebel martians get a smoke screen for long enough to get control of the ring network plus the protomolecule. Presumably they plan on activating some super strong protomolecule tech and using it to conquer Sol for the pure martian race at some point later. Now it's all played out, Marcos had a pretty brilliant plan.
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Feb 4, 2021 14:36
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Marcos doesn’t want a planet, it’s antithetical to his stated aim of Belter superiority in low G. What he has is the ring space, which is the nexus hub for millions of worlds, as the fledgling centre for intra-ring commerce and security. Mars is a fascist state, there’s no way that Belters coexist on Laconia.
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Feb 4, 2021 15:10
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Chalks posted:The more I think about the Poochieing of Alex the more frustrated I get. It seems like it was handled in such a needlessly clumsy way. I just can't see Alex staying out of a fight for the survival of the human race. It would seem pretty implausible to me.
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Feb 4, 2021 15:29
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Controlling Ring Space is very easy for Marco if he has Medina Station because he just has to post eyeballs at two portals, Sol and Laconia and then shake down any colonists/traders going to and from Sol. e: ie by striking now he shortcuts the problem of defending against 1600 or whatever possible entrances because the colonies aren't fully established yet nor do they have militaries of their own and the MCRN rebels also benefit from this as they only have to defend Laconia's side of the ring. Eej fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Feb 4, 2021 |
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Feb 4, 2021 15:31
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Overall I liked this season but 10 episodes are just not a lot for a show like this, and for many of the characters it felt like nothing really happened. Maybe in dense but I’m still not sure what exactly Naomi was doing on that abandoned ship.
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Feb 4, 2021 16:18
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Oasx posted:Overall I liked this season but 10 episodes are just not a lot for a show like this, and for many of the characters it felt like nothing really happened. Marco set up the Chet, which Naomi had bought Filip, as a bomb broadcasting a deepfake distress call from Naomi, hoping the Rocinante would come and dock with it, killing Holden and destroying a symbol of cooperation between the inners and the Belt. Naomi jumped over to it to try to stop it, but comms were down. She tried making a makeshift radio using a helmet, but it didn't work and Alex radioed that he was coming to help. So she started going into the unpressurized space between the hulls, pulling on wires until she found the one that was broadcasting the signal - she changed the signal as an attempt at a message and then cut it off. Alex was still coming to get her, so she went and started hammering on valves until she found one that turned on a thruster that put it into a spin so they *couldn't* dock. But Alex still said he was gonna figure out a way, so she jumped out.
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Feb 4, 2021 16:28
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Oasx posted:Overall I liked this season but 10 episodes are just not a lot for a show like this, and for many of the characters it felt like nothing really happened. She was trying to warn off her friends. That's what's so compelling about the Naomi stuff for me, all that suffering is in the service of saving other peoples' lives. As soon as she realizes the suit mic isn't working, she knows she's dead. She's not trying to save her own life. She puts the craft in a dangerous trajectory to try and make it impossible for the Razorback to dock with her ship, when that doesn't work, she throws herself out of the airlock - not expecting to be rescued - but just as a 1/100 chance to warn Alex not to rescue her. At any point she could've spaced herself and ended all that suffering, but she kept on doing things (and Dom Tipper does a great job communicating that suffering and pain) to protect her family. It's very noble.
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Feb 4, 2021 16:31
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I noticed a common theme from the show's most critical fans:Thorn Wishes Talon posted:Really hoping S6 takes place mostly on exo planets. Really tired of Earth/Mars/Belt drama. And this quote regarding Season 1: Zzulu posted:There was nothing particularly good about it. I liked the last episode when things actually happened I wonder how many folks here are watching only for alien poo poo, praying it turns into Mass Effect instead of being a show centered around human politics.
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Feb 4, 2021 16:38
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Tequila25 posted:I wonder how many folks here are watching only for alien poo poo, praying it turns into Mass Effect instead of being a show centered around human politics. When the earth destroys a Belter station and none of the Belter characters seem to give even the tiniest poo poo about it, the Mass Effect stuff is more realistic than the human politics stuff.
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Feb 4, 2021 16:43
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Oasx posted:Overall I liked this season but 10 episodes are just not a lot for a show like this, and for many of the characters it felt like nothing really happened. The first thing she does is try to send out a message saying that the ship is a trap but she doesn't know what frequency the message is sent by, whether it actually gets sent in the first place, etc. When she gets the message from Alex saying he's coming, she figures out which wires the signal is being sent from and chops up the message to say "I am in control" so no one comes to help her (this is the part where she calculates how much air is in the bridge and therefore how many times she can enter the unpressurized areas of the ship until no more O2) When he still keeps coming anyway she happens to figure out how to patch into the ship sensors and sees the arm and detonate distance on the bombs so she sabotages one of the thrusters causing it to vent all at once and sends the ship into a dangerous spiral that makes it very difficult to dock But just like Naomi, Alex would do anything to save his family so he keeps on going so her last ditch effort is to jump into space, hope she's picked up on scopes and use Belter hand signals to indicate the ship is an explosion hazard No step along the way does she actually expect to survive, she did it all simply to stop her friends from dying
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Feb 4, 2021 16:56
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zoux posted:She was trying to warn off her friends. That's what's so compelling about the Naomi stuff for me, all that suffering is in the service of saving other peoples' lives. As soon as she realizes the suit mic isn't working, she knows she's dead. She's not trying to save her own life. She puts the craft in a dangerous trajectory to try and make it impossible for the Razorback to dock with her ship, when that doesn't work, she throws herself out of the airlock - not expecting to be rescued - but just as a 1/100 chance to warn Alex not to rescue her. At any point she could've spaced herself and ended all that suffering, but she kept on doing things (and Dom Tipper does a great job communicating that suffering and pain) to protect her family. It's very noble. She was always trying to save herself as well - that's important. She never gave up hope that there was a chance she could get out of it if she kept trying the next thing. If she wanted to end it and save their lifes, she just had to cut the bomb wires inside and they'd go off.
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Feb 4, 2021 16:59
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Phanatic posted:When the earth destroys a Belter station and none of the Belter characters seem to give even the tiniest poo poo about it, the Mass Effect stuff is more realistic than the human politics stuff. That's a good critique, but saying nothing happened in Season 1 until the protomolecule gets loose just leads to hate-watching.
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Feb 4, 2021 17:00
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Eej posted:No step along the way does she actually expect to survive, she did it all simply to stop her friends from dying I believe she could have toyed with the detonators if she just wanted to die and prevent her friends from falling into the trap. She knew there was a minimal chance of survival, but she did all she could to both survive and save her friends.
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Feb 4, 2021 17:02
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From early on in her Chetzemoka storyline (after it became clear what she was doing with the radio signals) I was expecting it to end with her floating outside the ship flailing with hand gestures to warn off a docking ship, but I fully expected her to be tethered to the ship, not just yoloing out into space as far as possible. I guess what I was missing was the readout on the helmet that said the bombs were proximity-triggered enough so that an approaching ship would set them off even way out in tether range.
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Feb 4, 2021 17:13
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Nail Rat posted:Marco set up the Chet, which Naomi had bought Filip, as a bomb broadcasting a deepfake distress call from Naomi, hoping the Rocinante would come and dock with it, killing Holden and destroying a symbol of cooperation between the inners and the Belt. Naomi jumped over to it to try to stop it, but comms were down. She tried making a makeshift radio using a helmet, but it didn't work and Alex radioed that he was coming to help. So she started going into the unpressurized space between the hulls, pulling on wires until she found the one that was broadcasting the signal - she changed the signal as an attempt at a message and then cut it off. I really liked that Marco was pissed that his trap failed but the conclusion was "gently caress this it was a pointless distraction anyway, onwards with the plan" rather than obsessing over his petty revenge.
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Feb 4, 2021 17:15
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Chalks posted:I really liked that Marco was pissed that his trap failed but the conclusion was "gently caress this it was a pointless distraction anyway, onwards with the plan" rather than obsessing over his petty revenge. I think that was what made Filip realize that Marco is just petty and nothing more. The facade ripped away in that moment.
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Feb 4, 2021 17:28
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Thom12255 posted:She was always trying to save herself as well - that's important. She never gave up hope that there was a chance she could get out of it if she kept trying the next thing. If she wanted to end it and save their lifes, she just had to cut the bomb wires inside and they'd go off. That's a good point. Still pretty heroic.
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Feb 4, 2021 17:29
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Anomandaris posted:I believe she could have toyed with the detonators if she just wanted to die and prevent her friends from falling into the trap. She knew there was a minimal chance of survival, but she did all she could to both survive and save her friends. This was the problem I had with the arc. If her going through all that had ultimately been pointless as she realized that Alex/Holden were going to try and rescue her the real solution was set off the bomb. Bobbie says she only barely saw Naomi falling out of the ship and she should have known that Alex would try to dock not matter what the other ship was doing so she was really gambling that she'd be seen and not end up just having a nicer view as she and her friends were blown to pieces. People complain about villain plot armor on Inaros but Naomi's plot armor kept her alive at least a half dozen times throughout the season.
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Feb 4, 2021 17:44
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zoux posted:She was trying to warn off her friends. That's what's so compelling about the Naomi stuff for me, all that suffering is in the service of saving other peoples' lives. As soon as she realizes the suit mic isn't working, she knows she's dead. She's not trying to save her own life. She puts the craft in a dangerous trajectory to try and make it impossible for the Razorback to dock with her ship, when that doesn't work, she throws herself out of the airlock - not expecting to be rescued - but just as a 1/100 chance to warn Alex not to rescue her. At any point she could've spaced herself and ended all that suffering, but she kept on doing things (and Dom Tipper does a great job communicating that suffering and pain) to protect her family. It's very noble. Yeah I really enjoyed that. She is one of the best, if not THE top engineer in the Solar System and she couldn't regain control and fix communications. She couldn't do the TV MacGyver and was trapped on a floating bomb. She pushed herself to her limits and beyond to try do ANYTHING and nothing worked so, in the end, she gave everything for a bloody hail mary as she had nothing else left. Loved the way that was filmed, Naomi running out of air and tumbling in the void. I knew Bobbie was going to go grab her with the power armour but I actually cheered (for real) when it happened. I don't normally react like that sitting alone in my flat but I thought it was well done. I have always been a fan of Naomi Nagata but this season I felt really brought it to another level. She's got brass ones. The episode and season clicked for me. I feel everyone got some oomph to their character. Amos was pretty obvious but even Holden and Alex got some more meat. Alex going back to Mars and seeing the state of the world and people he abandoned then getting off the fence and doing what he could at last for both of his families was nice. Not super brilliant or complex but nice all the same. His dying of a stroke suddenly was credible, like that one goon said we already had Shed and others, but the execution was totally Poochie. Good idea just could have been done better. In a better world it would have been filmed more with more gravitas but in that better world Cas Anvar wasn't a supercreep Gary Glitter wannabe. Sucks as I like Alex Kaval but... glad it's done. Still hope Bobbie joins the crew to keep Mars representing on the Rocinante. Avasarala just brought the Rocinante's obvious symbolism to the fore. It is the only way mankind is going to survive. All that said any sting about the Poochie moment and awkward post rescue scenes was driven away by Amos, Holden and Peaches. loving hell I laughed my rear end off. I laughed so hard I almost choked and my lungs hurt now. The delivery of every second of that was perfect. Peaches going "Hi" and Holdens look after was amazing. I love Amos so bloody much. I don't want to descend into GoT agrichat part deux but I wonder how much fallout we will get from Marco's planetary bombardment. The Solar System's breadbasket suffering and Marcos controls the only way to get to the new Exodite planets. Just idly wondering how bad it will get. Looking forward to more Expanse and Expanse verse. The Chaos Gate sequence made me start wondering when that Eisenhorn series is coming around. Mars. Would Mars Nazis be more prone to Nurgle or Khorne?
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Feb 4, 2021 17:54
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Self-sacrifice also doesn't feel especially Belter, because that's a reckless kind of bullshit that gets people killed. Sure, they'll merrily put themselves into horribly dangerous situations, but they're not suicidal. You do what you can, minimise the risks, and sometimes you just gotta trust the guy holding the other end of the rope.
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Feb 4, 2021 17:58
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Tequila25 posted:I noticed a common theme from the show's most critical fans: Human politics are fine when they are interesting, and feature complex political, economic and military calculus regarding the balance of power between Earth, Mars and the Belt. This season though was mostly about interpersonal drama. The episodes featuring Naomi, Filip and Marco were especially tedious. Same with those where Naomi was holding her breath while banging on some metal pipes or trying to do McGyver stuff. I love Dominique Tipper, she's a great actor, but those bits were just poorly written and boring (filmed and acted well, though).
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Feb 4, 2021 18:18
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At the end of the show, and maybe I'm recalling incorrectly or something, but Inaros says something about "sitting next to a sleeper agent" - what was he talking about?
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Feb 4, 2021 18:39
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Doom2020! posted:Yeah I really enjoyed that. She is one of the best, if not THE top engineer in the Solar System and she couldn't regain control and fix communications. She couldn't do the TV MacGyver and was trapped on a floating bomb. She pushed herself to her limits and beyond to try do ANYTHING and nothing worked so, in the end, she gave everything for a bloody hail mary as she had nothing else left. Loved the way that was filmed, Naomi running out of air and tumbling in the void. I knew Bobbie was going to go grab her with the power armour but I actually cheered (for real) when it happened. I don't normally react like that sitting alone in my flat but I thought it was well done. I have always been a fan of Naomi Nagata but this season I felt really brought it to another level. She's got brass ones. Another thing that just bothered me about the setup on Naomi's bomb ship... what exactly was the trigger? Airlock usage? Naomi used the airlock twice and it didn't trigger the bomb. But whatever, it was okay. The freighter apparently had the most decentralized multi-redundant com system ever. But it is okay, I've made peace with it. There was a conversation during the face-to-face meeting between Marco and Drummer re: restoring belter food production. Marco apparently had investigated and had consulted a technical expert about rebuilding food production for the belt. So he's real about planning the Belt's future, except when it comes to letting a rogue MCRN fleet into his rear flank to mess with the most dangerous stuff ever known to humanity.
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Feb 4, 2021 18:52
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mastershakeman posted:I thought it was genius to have him go out that way. So many shows will introduce the "danger of space' or some other situation where every time we do this it's a risk! Except it never is, and becomes common. Then you end up with lightspeed skipping past planets I actually really like the idea too in theory, it's just the realities of the situation made it kind of a wet fart. Ideally, the Razorback (when did they start calling it the Screaming Firehawk?) closes with the Roci and the OPA fleet and has to do a lot of high G maneuvering to get free of the torpedoes, and then Bobbie can call out "Alex? Alex?" and it's a great scene. They've nodded at the dangers of high G all series, and then it comes full circle during an intense moment where we see our main characters aren't plot-immune to it after all and Alex dies even though they never managed to shoot the Razorback. Of course, they didn't want to bring him back on set for a proper death scene, which I completely understand. But it makes the death fall a little flat since it comes in a period of relative calm, and it feels a bit out of nowhere since it was a long while after they'd done any hard burns. (How would this work in real life, btw? It feels like, in a TV show, the person oughta stroke out during the battle, while they're under the high G pressure, but maybe IRL you'd survive the burn but the tissues are so beat up that they collapse a while later?) Phenotype fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Feb 4, 2021 |
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Feb 4, 2021 18:53
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gfarrell80 posted:Another thing that just bothered me about the setup on Naomi's bomb ship... what exactly was the trigger? Airlock usage? Naomi used the airlock twice and it didn't trigger the bomb. But whatever, it was okay. The freighter apparently had the most decentralized multi-redundant com system ever. But it is okay, I've made peace with it. It looked to be some kind of radar contact, as was shown when she got the helmet HUD working.
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Feb 4, 2021 18:59
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When she hacks into the sensors there's a big yellow circle around the ship that says ARM and a smaller red circle that says something like DETONATE
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Feb 4, 2021 19:00
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Phenotype posted:(How would this work in real life, btw? It feels like, in a TV show, the person oughta stroke out during the battle, while they're under the high G pressure, but maybe IRL you'd survive the burn but the tissues are so beat up that they collapse a while later?) I thought it made sense that a stroke would hit some hours after the fact; like a blood clot that builds up for months and then suddenly lets go.
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Feb 4, 2021 19:01
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