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Zaphod42 posted:Back when I played VTM and VTR my friends and I took it too seriously. I've always wanted to do a mixed game but I'm the only person in my group that's really in to it. That's probably why, in all our Vampire games, I give them loads of opportunities to be allies with other monsters. More often than not, I can get them to work against vampire society at large just because werewolves throw great parties or a promethean writes excellent poetry.
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Jan 28, 2021 00:09
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if you're not dating monsters of other splats, what are you even doing
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Jan 28, 2021 02:49
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Inzombiac posted:I've always wanted to do a mixed game but I'm the only person in my group that's really in to it. That's probably why, in all our Vampire games, I give them loads of opportunities to be allies with other monsters. More often than not, I can get them to work against vampire society at large just because werewolves throw great parties or a promethean writes excellent poetry. It works much, much better when the party is all one splat and the others are allies / enemies / set dressing. There's rules for interactions between them and they're somewhat balanced in a way, but when the party themselves is mixed up it doesn't work nearly as well. If the party is doing anything during the day, the vamp is sitting out. They each have conflicting needs and goals and even their humanity is fundamentally totally different. But of course that's a perfect formula for a Real World type campaign of misfit roommates who constantly fight over who's turn it is to deal with the cops.
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Jan 28, 2021 03:00
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Yeah I think if you make the game essentially night-only it could work well. Then again, I'm not very interested in hard rules as written. I'll take the themes and the core rules but that's about it. Have a Promethean as a roommate? Disquiet is still a thing but it makes the food rot and the house smell, nothing crazy dramatic. I think that's the only way to play some of these games since a lot of it is very interesting... as a novel.
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Jan 28, 2021 04:02
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The problem is always that the Mage can just do everything. So why is anyone else even there?
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Jan 28, 2021 05:37
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Captain Monkey posted:The problem is always that the Mage can just do everything. So why is anyone else even there? If the mage is a total newbie they get absolutely slaughtered, but otherwise yep. That's why we didn't have a mage in the mixed-party. Vampire, Werewolf, Promethean, Geist, maybe Changeling could work too. Hunter... I don't know how you'd reconcile them living together.
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Jan 28, 2021 06:18
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Zaphod42 posted:If the mage is a total newbie they get absolutely slaughtered, but otherwise yep. That's why we didn't have a mage in the mixed-party. Promethean couldn't. Within a month they'd have to move out, can't stay in one place for too long without being a part of a branded Throng, and even then it gets iffy. EDIT: Also, Prometheans have the most broken power curve in NWOD, the amount of stuff they can do exceptionally well without trying means they can dominate a game, especially combat. Promethean is a great game but it really doesn't work with the others at all.
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Jan 28, 2021 06:39
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Captain Monkey posted:The problem is always that the Mage can just do everything. So why is anyone else even there? Paradox.
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Jan 28, 2021 13:45
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For a Hunter, wouldn't it be to be a Judge or Redeemer? They would have to be the Bert living amongst a handful of Ernies, but...
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Jan 28, 2021 18:44
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According to the World of Darkness Discord, we are one week away from seeing Werewolf: The Apocalypse - Earthblood. 
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Jan 29, 2021 06:08
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TheCenturion posted:Paradox. A mage using their godly cosmic power to fix problems around the city whose paradox is that they are constantly foiled by their werewolf and vampire best friends is a great setup.
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Jan 29, 2021 06:44
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A hunter that's embedded with some vampires in order to take out some demons would be pretty cool.
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Jan 29, 2021 06:55
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:For a Hunter, wouldn't it be to be a Judge or Redeemer? They would have to be the Bert living amongst a handful of Ernies, but... Everything else they mentioned was NWOD, so I think they meant NWOD hunter with the different Lodges and those would be pretty hard to justify. Maybe the lodge that's all about crazy monster sex parties could work, provided the roomies weren't possessive/jealous types and didn't kink shame.
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Jan 29, 2021 07:00
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:You know what seems really weird and alien to me? This trend of trying to humanize inhuman monsters. This is part of why I liked The Strain. They were some monster-rear end vampires, even the intelligent ones. Especially the intelligent ones.
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Jan 29, 2021 07:11
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Helical Nightmares posted:According to the World of Darkness Discord, we are one week away from seeing Werewolf: The Apocalypse - Earthblood. Almost half a decade of development and this is the result...
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Jan 29, 2021 13:49
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Master the three forms! Human, Wolf, and Crino! (sic) Definitely gonna be a great game!!!
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Jan 29, 2021 15:51
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more like Cringo amirite
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Jan 29, 2021 16:51
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The werewolf game's out today. What's the verdict?
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Feb 4, 2021 16:38
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Mumbly posted:The werewolf game's out today. What's the verdict? To paraphrase Eurogamer; competent but not exciting. I think I'll wait for a sale then give it a go.
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Feb 4, 2021 16:51
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TheAnomaly posted:Everything else they mentioned was NWOD, so I think they meant NWOD hunter with the different Lodges and those would be pretty hard to justify. Maybe the lodge that's all about crazy monster sex parties could work, provided the roomies weren't possessive/jealous types and didn't kink shame. They're for a lot more than that. Ashwood Abbey are basically what happens if you had a bunch of politicians, ultra wealthy capitalists, corrupt priests, and pretty much the rest of the societal elite look at the Camarilla from the OWoD and just laugh their asses off at what incompetent boobs they are before proceeding to demonstrate what real corrupt elites look like. Keep in mind that these are the guys had an orgy in the middle of a werewolf holy site just to troll the werewolves. Which..went predictably. And then they went back to do it several more times just to gently caress with the werewolves heads. And then when the survivors came back they organized hunting parties to go and kill the werewolves just because it sounded like it would be a fun time. There's also that niggling little tidbit where they say they don't officially wear werewolf pelts. Because it's too gauche. Except it's implied they do in private. It's a status thing. Keep in mind that werewolves transform back into humans when they die.  There may be a reason that there's a character in the Chicago book with the same name as the guy who started the whole thing, who is explicitly named as a complete and utter douchebag who is there to gently caress with the players and let them get their comeuppance after they figure out what his big secret is. They were so horrifically evil that there was a bit of a backlash against them by the player base. So now they're more depraved hedonists instead of depraved hedonists that put the Camarilla to shame in the douchebaggery department. And it's been made clear that chapter's that go to far do in fact and descend into monstrosity (Monsters aren't the only ones that can get horrific results by zeroing their humanity in the NWoD. Even low humanity can turn into supernatural slasher movie villains under the right circumstances.*) get purged with a viciousness that'd probably frighten the monsters (and the hunters that write them off as useless aristocrats that really ought to be next on the list of monsters they need to kill.). The write up on Beasts is also one of the funniest ones i've seen regarding them. Dude just leans in on the hedonistic douchebag archetype in a self depreciating way, pointing out that his group are...Well, like that. And since he's expected to say something akin to that effect he points out that Beasts are literal abusive nightmares made flesh, and wouldn't you know it, fear and arousal are almost chemically the same thing in the mind of humans. So really, when you think about it what could be hotter than hunting a literal nightmare/abuse elemental made flesh? It's written in this flippant tone that just screams "Anyways, ima go kill an even bigger bastard than me now. Byyyyeeee!". *NWoD is on the whole better than the OWoD in my opinion. It dispenses with a canon metaplot in favor of a more toolkit approach. More relevantly, it also tackles the major sticking point of the OWoD. It points out that in a world where humans have not only mundane guns that can pretty much liquify a person in under a second with the sheer lethality of their bullets but are also supernaturally aware to a certain degree that humans are in fact basically a superpower in the setting. In fact, rather than just hamstringing humanity they've technically got more supernatural splats than anyone else in the form of hunters with various superpowers that really do not like what the assholish splats do to people. And that's before you get into Project Valkyrie. Where as the OWoD made it an ineffectual black ops thing they're a full on a military force that has weapons that will straight up annihilate the monster splats in a straight fight. We're talking, LRAD guns that literally boil a vampires blood and expand the vitae cells until the vampire literally bursts like a popped pimple, IFF systems that can identify a supernatural, occult superbullets that will gently caress you up, and if all that doesn't work or they face a raging ball of gently caress in the form of things like werewolves you they can literally deploy freaking tanks. It's a pretty big take that to the idea that the Camarilla could ever dominate the world. Fortitude doesn't mean poo poo when even your mundane military grade weaponry will straight up obliterate a body. Archonex fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Feb 4, 2021 |
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Feb 4, 2021 17:01
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Yeah, what the oWoD needed was the hamfisted military-industrial complex blowjob faction. You're right. It also really improved things in the nWoD when they took out all the neat plot and took a page from the guy who wrote Lost to make a world with endless breadth and zero depth.
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Feb 4, 2021 17:08
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Captain Monkey posted:Yeah, what the oWoD needed was the hamfisted military-industrial complex blowjob faction. You're right. It also really improved things in the nWoD when they took out all the neat plot and took a page from the guy who wrote Lost to make a world with endless breadth and zero depth. Lol.
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Feb 4, 2021 17:09
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Captain Monkey posted:Yeah, what the oWoD needed was the hamfisted military-industrial complex blowjob faction. You're right. It also really improved things in the nWoD when they took out all the neat plot and took a page from the guy who wrote Lost to make a world with endless breadth and zero depth. Congrats on completely missing the point of those factions, my post, and generally the entire setting of both the OWoD and NWoD as a whole. Edit: At least you got a reflexive dig in at the MIC though! I'm sure that is relevant to the discussion of a fictional black ops group that hunts monsters and is a reference to the literal military industrial complex supplied organization that originates from the OWoD and was in fact taken from it, right down to the name itself. Bravo to you, sir. 
Archonex fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Feb 4, 2021 |
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Feb 4, 2021 17:09
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Captain Monkey posted:Yeah, what the oWoD needed was the hamfisted military-industrial complex blowjob faction. You're right. It also really improved things in the nWoD when they took out all the neat plot and took a page from the guy who wrote Lost to make a world with endless breadth and zero depth. You nailed it, the point of Valkyrie is indeed to pump up the military hoorah. No other reason. 
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Feb 4, 2021 19:48
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Wait a minute, does that mean the VASCU being the best hunter compact means I'm a hypocrite for saying ACAB?!?!
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Feb 4, 2021 20:09
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Soonmot posted:Wait a minute, does that mean the VASCU being the best hunter compact means I'm a hypocrite for saying ACAB?!?! Yes. Real world politics MUST carry over to the tabletop exactly. For example, nobody can be a good person against police brutality if they like Delta Green.
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Feb 4, 2021 20:30
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Kavak posted:Yes. Real world politics MUST carry over to the tabletop exactly. For example, nobody can be a good person against police brutality if they like Delta Green. Likewise any version of fantasy roleplay from D&D on down is a tacit endorsement of colonialism. 
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Feb 4, 2021 20:33
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I'm playing the new Werewolf game right now, that means I think the Unabomber did nothing wrong! (There are literal closets that pop out guards like it's Gauntlet)
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Feb 4, 2021 20:41
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Kavak posted:I'm playing the new Werewolf game right now, that means I think the Unabomber did nothing wrong! I mean, if any company was going to come up with this as an invention it'd be Endron or whatever V5 Werewolf's equivalent is. This is the company that measures pollution reports as a measure of success, not profit. Stuffing some 9 to 5 schmoe full of cancerous stimulants and then locking him in a closet packed tight full of other guard's coked off their gourd is probably just another day for the management. Captain Oblivious posted:You nailed it, the point of Valkyrie is indeed to pump up the military hoorah. No other reason. He also missed the part where NWoD has a bunch of optional toolkit metaplots that actually let you influence the outcome of it's many greater plot arcs rather than the 24/7 misery porn saga that is VTM and WtA's "the world is doomed, nothing you can do can stop the apocalypse, embrace the end mortal /edgelord" unstoppable metaplot.
Archonex fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Feb 4, 2021 |
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Feb 4, 2021 21:22
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Archonex posted:This is the company that measures pollution reports as a measure of success, not profit. Stuffing some 9 to 5 schmoe full of cancerous stimulants and then locking him in a closet packed tight full of other guard's coked off their gourd is probably just another day for the management. I'd go with this if it wasn't for enemies spawning right outside the closets like Dragon Age 2.
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Feb 4, 2021 21:27
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Mumbly posted:The werewolf game's out today. What's the verdict? scanning through youtube it looks to be about 6 hours long with and hour and a half of that being cutscenes
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Feb 4, 2021 23:30
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Mumbly posted:The werewolf game's out today. What's the verdict? Played a few hours... it's.... not the worst thing I ever played? I think "mediocre, but inoffensive" is a good review of it. If this had a $60 price on it, I would be annoyed, but 40 is fine, grab it on sale unless you have nothing better to do or play. edit: Thinking about it, this would be a pretty alright game in 2014 or so.
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Feb 5, 2021 01:41
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Cyanidegame.txt
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Feb 5, 2021 01:54
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I'm maybe an hour and some odd time into it, and I think 2014 is a generous estimate. It feels like it came out in maybe 2005 or so. It's alarmingly dull for a game where you play as a nine foot tall killing machine up against mecha and weird mutants, and the stealth parts don't quite so much feel rewarding to get through so much as an inevitable timer to the fight sequences. It also desperately needs a camera mode that tracks the character better.
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Feb 5, 2021 05:11
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Archonex posted:He also missed the part where NWoD has a bunch of optional toolkit metaplots that actually let you influence the outcome of it's many greater plot arcs rather than the 24/7 misery porn saga that is VTM and WtA's "the world is doomed, nothing you can do can stop the apocalypse, embrace the end mortal /edgelord" unstoppable metaplot. The entire point of the oWoD is that it was doomed and flawed. You can dislike it all you want, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong in my interpretation. You can prefer the nWoD 'here's just a bunch of TV Tropes style broad strokes elements you can make into a story at your table and give a metaplot to' and I can prefer 'there is a vaguely coherent narrative but it's about misery and is edgelordy bullshit' and that's ok. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings with my tongue in cheek post earlier, friend.
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Feb 5, 2021 05:13
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Captain Monkey posted:The entire point of the oWoD is that it was doomed and flawed. You can dislike it all you want, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong in my interpretation. You can prefer the nWoD 'here's just a bunch of TV Tropes style broad strokes elements you can make into a story at your table and give a metaplot to' and I can prefer 'there is a vaguely coherent narrative but it's about misery and is edgelordy bullshit' and that's ok. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings with my tongue in cheek post earlier, friend. OWoD isn't even good at that. There's a reason why Goth Superheroes was a meme, and why a ton of people played OWoD splats that way, and it's because that's what the mechanics encouraged. It was a silly rear end setting with comic book level metaplot lore that insisted everyone stop playing X-Men vs. Magneto and put our serious faces back on for a grimdark finale. Of course people are going to make fun of it.
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Feb 5, 2021 05:45
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Yeah and that’s cool. I just like it because I played it when I was a kid.
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Feb 5, 2021 05:58
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i know very little about world of darkness or tabletop gaming in general, but that ashwood abbey poo poo sounds cringe as hell.
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Feb 5, 2021 07:21
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Kavak posted:I'd go with this if it wasn't for enemies spawning right outside the closets like Dragon Age 2. crepeface posted:i know very little about world of darkness or tabletop gaming in general, but that ashwood abbey poo poo sounds cringe as hell. It was. When I say backlash for how they were in 1e I recall people saying that anyone running an Ashwood Abbey character as part of a hunter campaign was a red flag to them. IE: If someone wanted to include the group in a game then some folks would just bug out because they were that bad. They started getting a revamp around 2e. The Beast thing I mentioned is literally a throwback mocking the old look on them that points out that even they hate the awful little bastards that Beast's are. The modern ones are more socialites that party with (and sometimes kill) monsters. Basically upper class people looking for a thrill (and who usually getting killed for it). Captain Monkey posted:The entire point of the oWoD is that it was doomed and flawed. You can dislike it all you want, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong in my interpretation. You can prefer the nWoD 'here's just a bunch of TV Tropes style broad strokes elements you can make into a story at your table and give a metaplot to' and I can prefer 'there is a vaguely coherent narrative but it's about misery and is edgelordy bullshit' and that's ok. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings with my tongue in cheek post earlier, friend. Uh, the actual end game scenarios for the games disagree with you about it being doomed. Flawed? Sure. But even the bleakest ones (Like Crucible of God, for instance) where the Antediluvians are amped up in power to become literal civilization destroying eldritch abominations (One of them eats the loving planet and leaves it in supernatural darkness long enough to start a new ice age before something takes him out.) at least offer the option of rebuilding and beginning again without the awful horrific bastards that ruined everything in the first place. It's just that everything up to that point is locked into canon in the metaplot because having meaningful player interaction with it was not a thing the OWoD did well. Or at all, in many cases. This is inarguably something the NWoD does better, letting people interact with the plots that are present as they please rather then just railroading them to a big finish while dropping a bunch of deterministic stuff in the lead up. Edit: I should add that even in the over top, ridiculously grimdark scenario your GM has to actively choose the "everyone dies, the world is a lifeless husk/literally Tzimisce forever" ending if you actually manage to play through the scenario successfully. Meaning if you got a "doomed" ending after that then the real problem is that you got a lovely GM that edgelorded harder than even the setting suggested. Also, this is the first time i've ever heard of someone actually calling the NWoD shallow TVTropes levels of broke strokes. Have you...even played a game in it? Because it's very much not. They released all sorts of metaplot books. It's just that the metaplot works far differently in the NWoD/CofD. Hell, the main thread will and has outright recommended people pick up the clan books for VTR due to how well written the plot and fluff in them is presented. Archonex fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Feb 5, 2021 |
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Feb 5, 2021 07:23
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Archonex posted:And that's before you get into Project Valkyrie. Where as the OWoD made it an ineffectual black ops thing they're a full on a military force that has weapons that will straight up annihilate the monster splats in a straight fight. We're talking, LRAD guns that literally boil a vampires blood and expand the vitae cells until the vampire literally bursts like a popped pimple, IFF systems that can identify a supernatural, occult superbullets that will gently caress you up, and if all that doesn't work or they face a raging ball of gently caress in the form of things like werewolves you they can literally deploy freaking tanks. TS:V are also presented as chronically underfunded and their tech can gently caress up in hilarious ways - such as taking guns that only fire at targets with lower then human body temperature on to a place where it was hot enough that the tech went "nope warm bodies can't shoot". I do appreciate how the Abbey basically rubs their hands together in glee whenever they find a chapter of the Hunt Club. Brings to mind a bit in the Ecstatics book where they justify the left-handed paths as necessary because "what better way to fight those who commit atrocities than those who see atrocities as a sacrament." Best compact's still The Union though.
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