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Broken Cog posted:How would mercs work with a world like wh where there's pretty defined lines between "good" and "evil" factions? On tabletop everyone but bretonnians got them. Which was real dumb because you could just slap a cannon in any army and cannons on tabletop were actually really good. e: cannons are tough to use in TW but man, I'm glad it's not like tabletop where black powder cannons could effortlessly snipe dragons from the sky and basically made large monsters unplayable.
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Feb 5, 2021 15:41
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:On tabletop everyone but bretonnians got them. That sounds miserable and oppressive. Was there a counter?
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Feb 5, 2021 15:44
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Broken Cog posted:How would mercs work with a world like wh where there's pretty defined lines between "good" and "evil" factions? In old rules (5th edition), all the Dogs of War/Regiments of Renown (all the mercs in 5th edition were RoR) had a "for hire" section which explained who could hire them, generally speaking some regiments would only be hireable by certain factions. The Tilean mercs though (which actually were most of them) could generally be hired by anybody, though with a few exceptions (Braganza's Besiegers and the Marksmen of Miragliano could not be hired by Skaven, on account of Miragliano's relationship with the ratmen). The 6th edition army book was much shorter (also not as good) and changed around some things a bit, but generally still had who could hire mercs be on an individual basis decided by the regiment's origins. It seems to have introduced the Bretonnians being completely unable to hire mercs. I could look into doing a general writeup of Tilea/Dogs of War using the 5th edition army book as the source, if people are interested in that. A bit of lore, a bit about characters, potential units based on that. I'll leave mercenary mechanics speculation out of that, as that's more its own thing. Edgar Allen Ho posted:On tabletop everyone but bretonnians got them. Yeah that's in the 6th edition Dogs of War book it introduced a bunch of generic units (mostly Tileans, dwarfs and halflings) and reduced the number of RoRs and drastically cut down on the lore and special characters. A much worse book. Mercenary mechanics in Warhammer Total War I think would have to account for a couple of different things 1) They should be units and characters directly recruitable into your regular armies. They should not just be mish-mash rogue armies hired as an AI-controlled (old) WAAAGH!-type army. 2) All mercenaries should not be available everywhere to everyone, some sort of system related to attracting and hiring mercs to a region would be good (and the Tileans should be the best at this as they should rely on mercs for building their armies, only having a couple base pike and crossbow units otherwise). 3) The type of units/characters provided should depend on the company you hire. The units should be unique, limited in number and not available on a permanent basis (think Gotrek and Felix but with the potential to pay a premium to keep them around for longer, with again Tileans havinb bonuses here). 4) A mercenary company can't be employed by multiple factions at the same time, it's unique and only provideds its units and characters to one faction at a time (again on a temporary basis). The number of companies that can be hired concurrently should be limited by either/both hard limits and soft means (scaling cost increases as you go beyond your soft limit). Randarkman fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Feb 5, 2021 |
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Feb 5, 2021 15:46
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Randarkman posted:especially with their religion which is basically worship of Athena combined with the Virgin Mary as I understand it) Myrmidia is approximately 'What if Joan of Arc was Jesus, and God was Athena?' Her faith has been steadily pushing northwards into the Empire, and is even starting to displace Ulric as the Empire's main war god in places. In contrast to Ulric, who's all about frontal assaults with axes and wolves, Myrmidia is a goddess of strategy, tactics, and superior weapons whatever those weapons might be. As the Empire's military has advanced and professionalized, Myrmidia has been steadily taking over as the officer's war god, where Ulric is increasingly associated with more backwards sorts and soldiers with more guts than sense. The Knights of the Blazing Sun are Myrmidia's holy order, spreading the word of Myrmidia into foreign lands by going on adventures, helping people, and smashing evil in the face. In the fluff there's even a large temple of Myrmidia in Kislev the city. The Kislevites are still very unsure about this weird foreign war goddess, but the large group of Knights of the Blazing Sun stationed there have ridden out with the Kislevite army every time the city has mobilized for war and acquitted themselves admirably. In general, even people who don't care for this weird foreign war goddess like and respect the Knights of the Blazing Sun. Same with the White Wolves, Ulric's holy order. Even people who think Ulric is a relic of a more barbaric age who has no place in the modern world will tip their hat to the White Wolves.
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Feb 5, 2021 15:57
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Count me in the group of people that got really into Warhammer after picking up TWW1 during a steam sale. It really made me want to paint the miniatures from the game, but I was just left with confusion when looking through the GW site. AoS still doesn't make much sense to me. Apparently it's a new timeline with really cool detailed models, and the old factions that I wanted to paint are still there, but only some! Oh, and the old models haven't been updated to reflect AoS details. I just wanted to paint Grimgor and his Black Orks. Now The Old World is coming back, which is a remake of WHFB, but not really! It's a prequel? So no Karl Franz or Grimgor? I at least hope they will have the old factions mostly intact. Kislev looks great so far. Cardboard Fox fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Feb 5, 2021 |
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Feb 5, 2021 16:04
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Randarkman posted:We'll see. I think they're going to try, which would mean having to change a bunch of stuff and introduce many new mechanics. I don't really care that much for it, and I have next to no interest in age of sigmar for a game. I still think they're probably going to want to try to bring 40k into the mix. dawn of war 2 was literally 40k company of heroes though. dow2 but massively scaled up would be a great basis for a total war game but I don't know how CA would actually handle it.
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Feb 5, 2021 16:05
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John Charity Spring posted:DOW2's maps were more restrictive in size but also they didn't use the supply line mechanic for capture points that COH had, where you only got resource benefits if you had a chain of territories linking back to your HQ. This meant that frontlines didn't count as much and you could end up with quite nonsensical focal points for battles. Also it was a smaller-scale game than COH even in MP, which felt wrong really. yeah i kinda liked dow2 but having neither supply lines nor defenses on req points was very, very silly
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Feb 5, 2021 16:06
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Up Circle posted:dawn of war 2 was literally 40k company of heroes though. dow2 but massively scaled up would be a great basis for a total war game but I don't know how CA would actually handle it. The only 40K stuff I played was DoW1 ages ago and that X-com esque game, and if the 40K universe can allow these completely different types of game exist without ever breaking it's established history or rules, I don't really see how hard it would be for CA to do something similar for a Total War game. Right now in WH2 you have Skaven of which half of it's roster is ranged units that use gattling guns and snipers and they have mechanized vehicles, how hard is to translate this into Space Marines or whatever.
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Feb 5, 2021 16:27
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Electronico6 posted:The only 40K stuff I played was DoW1 ages ago and that X-com esque game, and if the 40K universe can allow these completely different types of game exist without ever breaking it's established history or rules, I don't really see how hard it would be for CA to do something similar for a Total War game. Yeah I don't think it would be all that hard. In fact I would be shocked if CA didn't do Total Warhammer 40k. It just seems so obvious.
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Feb 5, 2021 16:39
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CA *have* done non-TW RTS games, one of them might have even been OK!
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Feb 5, 2021 16:42
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So all this talk of "best way to punk Archaon the Everchosen" reminded me of the Total War omnibuses that Black Library put out and how one of them got me really excited when CA announced a new Chaos army before I found out it was Norsca. One of the two omnibuses was The Emperor's Armies, and dealt with Slaanish cults infiltrating and subverting the Empire. Pretty good novels, but yeah, I was hoping for a low-tier-Empire-high-tier-Daemons faction. Ah well, I can always hope we get something akin to that with the Lamian Vampires. Also, the other omnibus that dealt with Archaon was hot garbage, with plot points that make my head hurt just remembering them.
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Feb 5, 2021 16:45
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Personally it's cause when I think of 40k, I think of very dynamic fights in quite dense environments with a lot of buildings with individuals moving through, in and out of those buildings, hunkering down, trading fire etc. Lots of dynamism with like, Dreadnaughts crashing through walls and smashing fools up. Or the larger scale battles are like, pure meat grinders with 1000s of troops on both sides getting slaughtered en masse by the second, aerial units doing strafing/bombing runs, crashing, etc. Entire columns getting erased by artillery fire. I love Total War Warhammer but it's never been the former example there and I don't know if that's something they'd be likely to do.
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Feb 5, 2021 16:47
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yeah I've never understood the skepticism about TW:40k, since DoW 2 had a huge amount of melee in it and, as mentioned, the Skaven gatling guns and Empire steam tanks already set the stage for the kinds of units 40k would need. that said, DoW 1 and 2 are the full extent of my 40k exposure. i'm sure cover mechanics are important in the tabletop but they don't seem like they're essential from a setting perspective--it's still gonna be more Total War than it is gonna be tabletop.
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Feb 5, 2021 16:48
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Napoleon TW had simple cover mechanics and buidlings you could garrison units in. Iterate on that, probably do smaller units, drop/expand the 20 unit-per-stack limit, introduce some kind of "platoon grouping" for movement, path finding and combat that's apart from the current control groups.
Randarkman fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Feb 5, 2021 |
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Feb 5, 2021 16:52
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All the new kislev heads in the thread should check out Abnetts Riders of the Dead. https://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/Riders-of-the-Dead-ebook.html It's real good, and according to Abnett very high on the list of his most accomplished works!
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Feb 5, 2021 16:54
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Randarkman posted:Napoleon TW had simple cover mechanics and buidlings you could garrison units in. Iterate on that, probably do smaller units, drop/expand the 20 unit-per-stack limit, introduce some kind of "platoon grouping" for movement, path finding and combat that's apart the current control groups.
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Feb 5, 2021 16:54
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thebardyspoon posted:Personally it's cause when I think of 40k, I think of very dynamic fights in quite dense environments with a lot of buildings with individuals moving through, in and out of those buildings, hunkering down, trading fire etc. Lots of dynamism with like, Dreadnaughts crashing through walls and smashing fools up. Or the larger scale battles are like, pure meat grinders with 1000s of troops on both sides getting slaughtered en masse by the second, aerial units doing strafing/bombing runs, crashing, etc. Entire columns getting erased by artillery fire. 40k had an old ruleset for huge battles with much smaller minis named Epic that had infantry fighting in ranks with tons of vehicle support, its cool and could be adapted in the total war system.  teenydar 
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Feb 5, 2021 16:58
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The latest edition of 40k has undergone a points increase across the board which leads to smaller armies (and less money spent on models! or maybe just makes you spend more because new armies are slightly cheaper) and a focus on taking and holding objectives to win games instead of wipe your enemy off the board. So yes, in a strange twist of fate 40k in 2021 has ended up exactly like Dawn of War 2 in 2009 with (relatively) small armies skirmishing over holding objective points on the map. I'm sure you could make it work but I don't know how compelling it would be to order like 50-70 Marines around in a Total War game. e: on the other hand Epic would work and you could have tons of little marines to order around with Titans stomping around
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Feb 5, 2021 17:00
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I've always said Epic would be better done by Eugen Systems tho.
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Feb 5, 2021 17:06
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Eej posted:The latest edition of 40k has undergone a points increase across the board which leads to smaller armies (and less money spent on models! or maybe just makes you spend more because new armies are slightly cheaper) and a focus on taking and holding objectives to win games instead of wipe your enemy off the board. So yes, in a strange twist of fate 40k in 2021 has ended up exactly like Dawn of War 2 in 2009 with (relatively) small armies skirmishing over holding objective points on the map. I'm sure you could make it work but I don't know how compelling it would be to order like 50-70 Marines around in a Total War game. I would actually argue that it would be very compelling, as long as those 50-70 Marines would fight against, and be equal to, a few hundreds of Orks/Tyranids/Chaos cultists.
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Feb 5, 2021 17:07
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Eej posted:The latest edition of 40k has undergone a points increase across the board which leads to smaller armies (and less money spent on models! or maybe just makes you spend more because new armies are slightly cheaper) and a focus on taking and holding objectives to win games instead of wipe your enemy off the board. So yes, in a strange twist of fate 40k in 2021 has ended up exactly like Dawn of War 2 in 2009 with (relatively) small armies skirmishing over holding objective points on the map. I'm sure you could make it work but I don't know how compelling it would be to order like 50-70 Marines around in a Total War game. approximately as compelling as ordering 70 Kroxigors around, I'd think, which is to say pretty compelling
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Feb 5, 2021 17:16
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I think that the scale of 40K would fit better into something like the Steel Division series. Relatively large swaths of territory with pockets of buildings or unusual terrain. Almost every infantry unit enters the map on some kind of troop carrier ranging from unarmored trucks to APC's. Recon and visibility matter a lot, as does fire distance. Steel Division isn't a perfect game, but it shows what is possible in terms of complex mechanics and scale in an RTS. Also, I waited until SFO Grimhammer was patched to play the new DLC. The sisters are beastly! Regularly getting hundreds of kills with their AOE fire. Are they like that in the unmodded version too? I've been having a blast with it so far but their Dragon mount quest forced me to go to war with Naggarond so now I'm worried that instead of teleporting around the map every ten turns I'm going to be stuck in a 60 turn hell grind with the Dark Elves. I've got positive income but I can't field more than one good army.
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Feb 5, 2021 17:20
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Loren posted:
When i played the sisters unmodded, I was regularly getting US Army in Vietnam-level kill ratios, it was a nice change of pace from when I play Tomb Kings and drowned them in skeletons, or play as skaven and drown them in rats/heavy weapons.
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Feb 5, 2021 17:28
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thebardyspoon posted:Personally it's cause when I think of 40k, I think of very dynamic fights in quite dense environments with a lot of buildings with individuals moving through, in and out of those buildings, hunkering down, trading fire etc. Lots of dynamism with like, Dreadnaughts crashing through walls and smashing fools up. Or the larger scale battles are like, pure meat grinders with 1000s of troops on both sides getting slaughtered en masse by the second, aerial units doing strafing/bombing runs, crashing, etc. Entire columns getting erased by artillery fire. But maybe they can make it work. 40k is a weird mix of small-squad based "modernity" and Glorious Melee Combat™, so there's at least something there. I think one fun left-field option would be a Total War version of Epic, which fits the scale/mechanics much better. It's literally big blocks of space marines and tanks, most of the cover and small-squad stuff is abstracted away, and Giants are already roughly the scale of smaller Titans.
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Feb 5, 2021 17:33
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Could you do a Total War 40K? Yeah probably. It'd basically just be Dawn of War though  Which I wouldn't mind... But I'm not sure that is CA's wheelhouse
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Feb 5, 2021 17:44
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I mean, would it be worse than dawn of war 3?
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Feb 5, 2021 17:48
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Decided to reinstall after a long while- I think around Vampire Coast? Have any factions gotten reworks since then?
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Feb 5, 2021 18:01
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StashAugustine posted:Decided to reinstall after a long while- I think around Vampire Coast? Have any factions gotten reworks since then? Several. Skaven, Empire, Greenskins and Wood Elves have all had major overhauls. And Bretonnia now that I think about it.
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Feb 5, 2021 18:03
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StashAugustine posted:Decided to reinstall after a long while- I think around Vampire Coast? Have any factions gotten reworks since then? Greenskins are one of the most fun factions now
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Feb 5, 2021 18:04
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Does anyone else still suffer from the Greenskin "Call to Waaagh!!!" crash bug? You can only call a waaagh once per session because it takes a while to build up the meter and by the time you are ready to call another waaagh the game will crash when you click the button.
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Feb 5, 2021 18:14
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I’m super excited for new units no matter where they are from. But I would also be super excited for a Great Crusade/Horus Heresy 30K total war game. Controlling a legion - reconquring planets for papa. Each legion with different playstyles.
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Feb 5, 2021 18:39
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its pretty stupid that skarsnik doesnt have stalk huh
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Feb 5, 2021 18:46
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He has an ability that gives him stalk. Thematically it means he flips you off and insults you, then scuttles off with his stalk ability and you run into an ambush.
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Feb 5, 2021 18:49
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Cracker King posted:I’m super excited for new units no matter where they are from. But back then the best chapter (The Lamenters) doesn't exist yet. Also all mehrines would be hella boring. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr1Ip9aaHIA
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Feb 5, 2021 18:55
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Eimi posted:But back then the best chapter (The Lamenters) doesn't exist yet. Also all mehrines would be hella boring. Same. Enough of the drat space megaNazis.
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Feb 5, 2021 18:56
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I am extremely skeptical that they will make a TW:WH40k. I think that by the time they exhaust WH3's DLC offerings they might already be in the mode to release a new-engine version of WH1 - it'll be at least a decade old at that point. Either that, or they move on entirely for a while. I imagine CA will continue a fantasy line to parallel the historical releases but there's no reason to think that the fantasy games will always be exclusively related to Games Workshop. CA makes a poo poo-ton of money from Warhammer, but it also made a poo poo-ton of money from Three Kingdoms.
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Feb 5, 2021 19:14
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Even moving Warhammer to 3K's version of the engine (if it were possible) would be a big upgrade. 3K feels way more fluid and the colors are way more vibrant and gorgeous. Also the three lord system is brilliant.
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Feb 5, 2021 19:17
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orangelex44 posted:I am extremely skeptical that they will make a TW:WH40k. I think that by the time they exhaust WH3's DLC offerings they might already be in the mode to release a new-engine version of WH1 - it'll be at least a decade old at that point. Either that, or they move on entirely for a while. I imagine CA will continue a fantasy line to parallel the historical releases but there's no reason to think that the fantasy games will always be exclusively related to Games Workshop. CA makes a poo poo-ton of money from Warhammer, but it also made a poo poo-ton of money from Three Kingdoms. Eimi posted:Even moving Warhammer to 3K's version of the engine (if it were possible) would be a big upgrade. 3K feels way more fluid and the colors are way more vibrant and gorgeous. Also the three lord system is brilliant. 
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Feb 5, 2021 19:19
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:By the time WH3's lifecycle is winding down, GW's The Old World will probably be fully released and alive. They could make Total War: Warhammer: The Old World (TWWHTOW). I'm wondering if that means TW3 will essentially be a platform for any future races GW comes up with later on down the line.
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Feb 5, 2021 19:20
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:By the time WH3's lifecycle is winding down, GW's The Old World will probably be fully released and alive. They could make Total War: Warhammer: The Old World (TWWHTOW). succinctly, what is the difference between "fantasy" and "the old world" and "age of sigmar"? they all seem like they're 95% the same with slightly different timelines and aesthetics, is that it?
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Feb 5, 2021 19:22
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