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Maybe the whole "Ymir sided with Eren" thing is *specifically* because Zeke wanted to sterilize all Eldians? Like he was asking her to sever the only connection she had to the world and the only thing she cares about (highlighted by Zeke's speech on how multiplication is the purpose of life) - it's essentially the only command she could refuse, which then gave her no other choice but to follow Eren. Once Zeke had his change of heart he was able to exert his will again since his desires were no longer diametrically opposed to Ymir's. Narratively this would be a last second shift from being focused on Eren's drive for revenge to Zeke learning to finally embrace life (and man up and get his head chopped the gently caress off lol)
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Feb 8, 2021 23:47
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Kind of depressing that every Eldian is connected by Paths simply because Ymir is lonelyIn It For The Tank posted:I'd be much more disappointed if it wasn't such an obvious fake out.
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Feb 8, 2021 23:50
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I'm getting the feeling that one way or another, Ymir has changed her mind, and Eren no longer has her backing. If that's the case, he's tough, but beatable.
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Feb 8, 2021 23:51
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Eren wanted to get stopped. He saw the future and made this really terrible one happen because he knew something really specific would happen (ie he would get stopped publicly by Eldians). It's an ending I know a lot of people didn't want but it's the only thing that makes sense atm.
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Feb 8, 2021 23:52
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No Wave posted:Eren wanted to get stopped. He saw the future and made this really terrible one happen because he knew something really specific would happen (ie he would get stopped publicly by Eldians). It's an ending I know a lot of people didn't want but it's the only thing that makes sense atm. God I hope not
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Feb 8, 2021 23:54
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No Wave posted:Eren wanted to get stopped. He saw the future and made this really terrible one happen because he knew something really specific would happen (ie he would get stopped publicly by Eldians). It's an ending I know a lot of people didn't want but it's the only thing that makes sense atm. Hasn't this been brought up in the manga(Specifically the "everyone becomes friends over a common enemy") and the other characters were like "No that's stupid and wouldn't work."?
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Feb 9, 2021 00:02
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Continuous contact with Zeke being a requirement for an ongoing direct connection to Ymir makes sense, but there's something else going on here. We're missing a piece which I expect is related to how Reiner & Annie's hardening came undone alongside the walls, and Eren not stopping the smaller titans at Shiganshina.
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Feb 9, 2021 00:02
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"Well it's obviously a fakeout," is the wrong way to read this. Maybe it is, but this is a story not a puzzle. You don't get points for figuring it out or anything. Better to engage with what's there and take it as it comes. This was a difficult part of the story to write, and I think it was pretty well done, all things considered. It's a difficult message to get across, the value of things that only have personal value, but I felt it pretty powerfully when Armin talked about reading when it's rainy out. For those who think this isn't a good conclusion, it obviously isn't the conclusion. "Life is worth living" wasn't a rebuke of Eren's philosophy, it was a rebuke of Zeke's philosophy. With Zeke changing sides, and ironically accepting death as a result of his coming to value life, Eren has been physically stopped for the moment. But his position still needs to be addressed. And honestly, given the nature of Eren's position, it's going to be difficult to pull off a convincing rebuke. "I don't want my friends to die. The world wants to kill my friends and can't be reasoned with. I will destroy the world," is difficult to address. There are three ways to address that position. "Let my friends suffer/die," which is kind of Zeke's plan to humanely give up, and is never going to be acceptable. "Let's actually really reason with the world and understand each other," which has been presented as naive. Or "Let's live in separate apart from the world," which was the King's plan when he set up Paradis, and this whole manga has been more or less a consequence of that solution being impractical. The path of understanding is the most obviously good message that could be presented, but it's also not like it hasn't been addressed. Hatred and fear are realistically presented as something that it takes a lot to overcome. Even if individuals do, societies are more complicated to affect and less nuanced in their understanding. If there's a power discrepancy, and there's two groups who don't trust each other, it won't end well. "Most of humanity has been destroyed so there's not much of a power discrepancy," would conceivably address the situation we have now, but it's a kind of terrible message, and doesn't really fundamentally address things. Honestly the more I think about it the more I'm impressed by Zeke's plan. But both giving up (Zeke) and hiding (Paradis) have been pretty explicitly rejected. We've got to deal with the world, either wipe them out or make them understand. Wiping out the rest of the world... is not out of the question for this manga, but I really really hope it doesn't go that way. That's how I see it now, but I remember making a long post about Reiner and Berthold's motivations shortly after their reveal, and I could not come up with anything that was remotely sympathetic or understandable. I was not prepared for the scale of the perspective shift that did end up making their actions understandable. So I'm prepared to have something interesting outside the context of the issue as I currently see it blow my mind. I'm really, really looking forward to the next two chapters.
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Feb 9, 2021 00:03
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RatHat posted:Hasn't this been brought up in the manga(Specifically the "everyone becomes friends over a common enemy") and the other characters were like "No that's stupid and wouldn't work."?  More recently, Jean and Hange discussed the consequences of stopping Eren, and determined that it would mean Paradis' inevitable destruction.
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Feb 9, 2021 00:08
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Wait a minute so Armin and Zeke were able to talk no jutsu Bert and the others to flipping... but if all of those titans on the spine were Warhammer defense mechanisms, who is exactly controlling the ones that are still fighting the alliance even after Zeke dies? And why could they only flip those shifter recreations, even Eren Kruger (at least I think one of them is Kruger) whom technically neither Zeke nor Armin have met before? It just seems odd that if they could flip shifters neither have met, why wouldn't they just... stop every titan on the spine
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Feb 9, 2021 00:08
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I really like how this chapter came out just on the tail of Onyakopon's speech in the anime.
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Feb 9, 2021 00:11
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MechaX posted:Wait a minute This is why I don't buy the Ymir changed her mind theory, she could flip all of the titans if she wanted but the warhammers are still hacking away. I really don't understand why Kruger is there, Grisha wants to help Zeke sure, but Kruger doesn't know any of these people and none of them know him. Seems strange
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Feb 9, 2021 00:14
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MechaX posted:Wait a minute hatty posted:This is why I don't buy the Ymir changed her mind theory, she could flip all of the titans if she wanted but the warhammers are still hacking away. I really don't understand why Kruger is there, Grisha wants to help Zeke sure, but Kruger doesn't know any of these people and none of them know him. Seems strange Armin and Zeke don't know Kruger, but Kruger has seen at least some of Eren's memories and mentioned Armin by name when talking to Grisha.
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Feb 9, 2021 00:19
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MechaX posted:Wait a minute I forget if they ever met, but Eren Kruger would have known of Zeke, since Zeke's childhood betrayal was the reason Eren Kruger had an opportunity to pass his titan to Grisha. He also has a vision of Mikasa and Armin before he dies for some reason. In any case I can imagine he feels directly invested in making sure the people here survive more so than other dead titan shifters. hatty posted:This is why I don't buy the Ymir changed her mind theory, she could flip all of the titans if she wanted but the warhammers are still hacking away. I really don't understand why Kruger is there, Grisha wants to help Zeke sure, but Kruger doesn't know any of these people and none of them know him. Seems strange As someone else pointed out, the only order she deliberately refused was self-genocide, and it makes sense since that contradicts her one remaining core value. She didn't so much give Eren her blessing as reject the idea of the Eldians giving up entirely.
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Feb 9, 2021 00:26
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I liked it. I figured we were gonna get some paths shenanigans to get to our resolution, who knows we might be getting more of them next chapter too. I still feel like what exactly Eren's 'golden path' is and how immutable it is seems really key to finishing the story. Also, that tree Armin is remembering is the same one that Eren is sleeping under at the start of the series right? E:I guess the visions that Erwin and Hange had as they died were literal and not figurative huh.
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Feb 9, 2021 00:26
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hatty posted:This is why I don't buy the Ymir changed her mind theory, she could flip all of the titans if she wanted but the warhammers are still hacking away. I really don't understand why Kruger is there, Grisha wants to help Zeke sure, but Kruger doesn't know any of these people and none of them know him. Seems strange He knows Grisha, and he was aware of Zeke by reputation at minimum. (It seems likely he knew Tom too, so And he did everything to save the Eldians outside of Paradis, not the ones in hiding there, so I can sorta buy it. But yeah. Overall, this does feel a little pat as a conclusion. If there was only one chapter left, I'd be pretty sure this would be a disappointment. But two chapters, there's too much space to not have at least one more big reveal.
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Feb 9, 2021 00:28
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I'm just happy that this chapter basically rules out the possibility that Ymir is some sinister mastermind.
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Feb 9, 2021 00:33
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Eren wants to be killed. Not because he thinks uniting against a common foe is going to work, but because it's not in his nature to stop fighting and the only way he can see to fight leads to him becoming the monster everyone is afraid of the Eldians becoming in the first place. He's not pulling his punches, not consciously at least, but his end goal is for everyone to stop him by killing him because that's the only way this ends for him.
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Feb 9, 2021 00:36
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MechaX posted:Wait a minute Staltran posted:Armin and Zeke don't know Kruger, but Kruger has seen at least some of Eren's memories and mentioned Armin by name when talking to Grisha. I always thought this was meant to be Grisha's memory, but it could be Eren's, we never exactly found out how the AT works. Speaking of which. Grisha is the thing that is truly baffling here. Out of the unresolved plot points so far, the following section is something that absolutely must be explained in the two remaining chapters. Why is Grisha helping them? This ties into a more general issue of what did Eren see in the future and what is his final motivation? One of the yet-to-be-explained sections of 120-122 Paths is what led Grisha to support Eren in the end. As far as we know, this is the series of events from Grisha's perspective:
So SOMETHING is going on here. Also, remember the way the AT future memories thing works - Eren can't directly see the future, he can only see the future va memories he DELIBERATELY sends to Grisha, which means everything Future Eren has seen, Grisha has seen. Grisha has to know the entire plan, knew it before he died, knew it and gave Eren the injection. Future Eren controls the exact time and content of the memories he sends Grisha, so if any point now until the end of Eren's life, he regrets having started the Rumbling, hurting his friends, or whatever, or if he is just fighting them and losing, he could have sent that memory to Grisha and stopped this whole thing.
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Feb 9, 2021 00:43
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I can't help but wonder if the return of the dead Eledens was something more literal. That the curse of the Titan meant not just that you would turn into one but that you were denied even the freedom to die for real. Eren's goal with the Rumbling wasn't merely to save his people's lives but to save their death as well. It depends on how literal the 'born again' thing is but it would explain a lot.
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Feb 9, 2021 00:48
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Manga ends with a cut back to Grisha about to inject Eren he sees another rumbling memory he says “nah” and smashes the vial
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Feb 9, 2021 00:48
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Armin saves everyone by talking about how nice it is to be alive would be a lame as hell ending and now I have extremely high hopes for the next chapter
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Feb 9, 2021 00:52
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christmas boots posted:Eren wants to be killed. Not because he thinks uniting against a common foe is going to work, but because it's not in his nature to stop fighting and the only way he can see to fight leads to him becoming the monster everyone is afraid of the Eldians becoming in the first place. He's not pulling his punches, not consciously at least, but his end goal is for everyone to stop him by killing him because that's the only way this ends for him. I can buy he wants to be stopped. I don't buy that he plans to die. "But if there's no desire to get back out alive, you're a zero!" and all that. (Also "Make a promise that I cannot regret as long as I can see you but in secret") Eren's probably hosed Historia, and at minimum they're coconspirators, with her as the only member of the 104th he trusted with his grand plan. And Historia's got a repeating motif of the people she loves abandoning her for a "greater good". In art, there's a rule of threes. Setup, repetition, and twist. You do something once (Frieda), twice to lock it in as a pattern (Ymir) and then then a third time that breaks things. (Eren would go here). Historia's also got a theme song about her relationships talking about how dying a martyr is completely unacceptable, a song that played when she saved Eren from his suicidal tendencies.
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Feb 9, 2021 01:01
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ImpAtom posted:It depends on how literal the 'born again' thing is but it would explain a lot. I assume that's a reference to reincarnation, specifically the idea that reincarnated souls who had strong relationships in previous lives tend to find each other again. I'm no expert, but that seems pretty standard for Japanese media.
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Feb 9, 2021 01:03
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Some of yall havent the read the Dune series and it shows smh
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Feb 9, 2021 01:05
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Well point me to Eren's lesbian warrior society then
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Feb 9, 2021 01:13
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Eren is going to die and split up into a bunch of tiny titans.
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Feb 9, 2021 01:17
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Eej posted:Well point me to Eren's lesbian warrior society then To you, 2000 years from now. On a more serious note I saw a reddit shitpost that raised the point that there's a decent possibility that if the status quo of how the 9 are inherited hasn't been broken, there's a real chance that Historia's child could inherit the Beast Titan after Zeke died.
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Feb 9, 2021 01:19
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when do the Jean Pieck shipping wars start?
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Feb 9, 2021 01:19
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bees x1000 posted:when do the Jean Pieck shipping wars start? They started a month ago. It's called Cart+Horse.
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Feb 9, 2021 01:22
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bees x1000 posted:when do the Jean Pieck shipping wars start? A few months back, I think? It started as a gag because she's got long black hair (which makes her Jean's type) and is a capable soldier (same thing). It just kept going and got less ironic, because that's how everything goes on the internet.
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Feb 9, 2021 01:25
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Beefstew posted:Cart+Horse. dammit Isayama
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Feb 9, 2021 01:36
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After this chapter, I'm convinced it's intentional. With Mikasa still simping over her genocidal brother-bf and unlikely to show Jean the time of day anytime soon, I think Isayama felt like he should give our wannabe knight in shining armor some moments of rescuing second-best girl to seed fans' imaginations. That's also the only logical explanation for why he hasn't killed off Pieck. Glad that the two best boys are gonna get with the two best girls.
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Feb 9, 2021 01:41
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Beefstew posted:Glad that the two best boys are gonna get with the two best girls. Wait who is getting with Hitch?
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Feb 9, 2021 01:45
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At this point I just hope whatever happens, Ymir gets her way in the end whatever that may be
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Feb 9, 2021 01:49
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I still can't get over the fact that Pieck's last name is Finger.
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Feb 9, 2021 01:53
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hatty posted:Wait who is getting with Hitch? she likes blockheads with a strong sense of justice, so Connie
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Feb 9, 2021 01:57
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Bleck posted:Armin saves everyone by talking about how nice it is to be alive would be a lame as hell ending and now I have extremely high hopes for the next chapter It's going to be much, MUCH worse than that, everyone worked together to stop the rumbling so this puts a stop to the ongoing genocide, everyone is freed from the ghetto as their humanity is recognized. All crimes are forgiven and forgotten. Happy ending where everyone still alive responsible for suffering gets off scott-free 
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Feb 9, 2021 02:16
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Reiner giving his best Helos impression in the final moments of 137
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Feb 9, 2021 02:19
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aot going for the in vogue "please make babies japan" ending i see
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Feb 9, 2021 02:21
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