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hatty posted:Pretending to be a monster is much more dull than the character actually being one imo. Not sure he can claim to be pretending
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Feb 9, 2021 23:44
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just a prank, bro
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Feb 9, 2021 23:47
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Makes sense that the natural progression for Falco's titan was further evolving the jaw into what seems like modular beak-armor. Kinda wish we'd gotten to see Colt's beast titan with like, a built-in trebuchet or smth.
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Feb 9, 2021 23:49
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All this is immaterial. The final page will be Falco asking Gabi out and Gabi completely misunderstanding it again.
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Feb 9, 2021 23:49
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Conspiratiorist posted:That'd be one hell of a trick if Eren was only pretending to genocide the planet considering it looks like he laid flat an entire continent. Yeah, there's that. He already genocided a sizable part of the world, it seems. A bit late to be only pretending
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Feb 9, 2021 23:49
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God drat it, his name is literally Falco
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Feb 9, 2021 23:52
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DaveKap posted:
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Feb 9, 2021 23:52
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DaveKap posted:
Fly! Fly, fly, Gatchaman!
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Feb 9, 2021 23:55
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Homora Gaykemi posted:Fly! Fly, fly, Gatchaman! Didn't buy enough gacha currency. He's crashing now.
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Feb 10, 2021 00:01
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The Virgin Marcel vs the Chad Falco Even in the titanbowl, Marcel's Jaw is getting punked by the other titans
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Feb 10, 2021 00:04
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bees x1000 posted:just a prank, bro The epic-est For the lols
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Feb 10, 2021 00:08
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genericnick posted:He's crashing now. That's the Science Ninja Skill, Firebird
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Feb 10, 2021 00:08
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bees x1000 posted:just a prank, bro Truly the most half assed piece of poo poo
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Feb 10, 2021 00:11
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I suppose it could be that he saw the future and saw that he was going to start the rumbling and everyone would unite to stop him and succeed (only because he will let them) and afterwards Paradis and the rest of the world would find a way to get along, and decided that was the best possible outcome? So he proceeds with that Paradis lives and it seems the rumbling only wiped Marley before stopping, so the rest of the world survives Elias_Maluco fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Feb 10, 2021 |
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Feb 10, 2021 00:18
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Eren isn't pretending to be evil. He IS evil. He did it. He created a stable timeloop to make sure that he did it. While I think it's more interesting for him to be motivated by grief and hatred, it honestly doesn't matter too much why he did what he did. I still don't fully believe the Leto II thing either. Because we saw him lamenting about how it should be objectively wrong to do the rumbling, because more people will die than would otherwise, but he simply can't accept any outcome where his people suffer. That doesn't sound like someone weighing some cold, pragmatic, "greater good" bullshit. It sounds like someone motivated by their own selfish and fearful ideology. However, I think this might have a positive outcome in the long run, since racist power structures have been (unintentionally?) dismantled. Until otherwise stated, I chalk up him losing to Ymir switching sides. The most recent chapter likened the alliance's struggle against Eren to "the illusion of freedom", and when Ymir looked upon them, she saw the pigs. I think she's realized that there's an alternative to Eren and stopped defending him. Beefstew fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Feb 10, 2021 |
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Feb 10, 2021 00:19
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^but she didn't stop defending him? titans were attacking the alliance right up until the boom anyways, we might still be at this stage in the fight: 
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Feb 10, 2021 00:28
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The Colossal Titans are gonna stop and form a wall now and the area within Wall Eren will be the new Paradis and all ya'll non Ymir worshippers can stay out
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Feb 10, 2021 00:54
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Beefstew posted:Eren isn't pretending to be evil. He IS evil. He did it. He created a stable timeloop to make sure that he did it. While I think it's more interesting for him to be motivated by grief and hatred, it honestly doesn't matter too much why he did what he did. I don't think you've got the right read on Eren. He made a point in his talk with Reiner that it isn't about hate any more. He's forgiven the people who killed his mother, because he realizes that they didn't really have much of a choice either. The world is cruel (but also beautiful). And that same cruelty leaves him in a position where he has to sacrifice what he loves, or to hurt other people just like how he was hurt. There's a big difference between early Eren and post-basement Eren. He used to be able to drive himself with rage, but now he's defined by a sense of grim inevitability. It wasn't "I want to kill Reiner and Bert". It was "I have to." If there's anyone Eren hates now, it's Eren, the half-assed piece of poo poo who's murdering people he broke bread with, but he can't stop. Not won't . Can't. That was part of the point of his talk with Falco. This isn't about him wanting revenge any more. This was about him having no way out but forward.
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Feb 10, 2021 00:57
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chiasaur11 posted:I don't think you've got the right read on Eren. He made a point in his talk with Reiner that it isn't about hate any more. He's forgiven the people who killed his mother, because he realizes that they didn't really have much of a choice either. The world is cruel (but also beautiful). And that same cruelty leaves him in a position where he has to sacrifice what he loves, or to hurt other people just like how he was hurt. Yeah, that's more accurate, but I think my central point stands. He refuses to accept a certain outcome, even if he logically (as logical as genocide can be, anyway...) knows that it would be a greater sin to do the Rumbling. That's the biggest reason why I'm skeptical of the Code Geass/God Emperor of Dune stuff, because it feels almost like a psychological compulsion at this point, his lust for freedom that's enslaved him. What I'm saying is that my current read is him Rumbling from a more emotional perspective than a pragmatic/calculated one.
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Feb 10, 2021 01:38
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The thing is history has shown us you can remove someone as a threat without genociding them down to the last child. We didn't have to kill every last German to end WW2. And modern Germany isn't exactly calling for genocide these days. Destroying Marley as a state is something that has already happened. There's no need to kill everyone. Depressingly maybe the gang killing Eren part-way through the Rumbling is the optimal outcome in regards to lives saved. No one no matter how willing will be able to threaten Paradis for a century after this. And in that century there will no longer be a system like the Marleyan state maintaining and exacerbating anti-Eldian sentiment. Thinking that the only way to protect yourself is genociding everyone else has never turned out to be true. The world is full of people who wanted each other dead and have been forced to get along. Eren in the end is simply a selfish person who doesn't want to think about "sharing" the world with people who don't like him. He wants there to be an "End Point" where all enemies are permanently defeated and no new problem can ever come up. He said so himself, he's "disappointed" that the world isn't a big empty field for him to frolic in. I don't know if this was Isayama's intent, but the whole obsession with viewing history as having a big finale where everyone except your group is killed, because having anything more than a single racially/ethnically/culturally homogenous group is considered a temporary theatre before the climatic genocide, is a key component of Fascism. The story thus far has been really keen on criticizing Fascist ideas and Eren's thought process might well be the culmination of that.
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Feb 10, 2021 01:54
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Beefstew posted:Yeah, that's more accurate, but I think my central point stands. He refuses to accept a certain outcome, even if he logically (as logical as genocide can be, anyway...) knows that it would be a greater sin to do the Rumbling. That's the biggest reason why I'm skeptical of the Code Geass/God Emperor of Dune stuff, because it feels almost like a psychological compulsion at this point, his lust for freedom that's enslaved him. It is calculated though. He has seen the future and he knows that going through with the Rumbling will give him the outcome that he desires, even if it turns out he is defeated here. He looked at the options of maybe things might workout possibly and this will definitely 100% save Paradis island and picked the one that he knew would work.
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Feb 10, 2021 01:58
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Beefstew posted:Yeah, that's more accurate, but I think my central point stands. He refuses to accept a certain outcome, even if he logically (as logical as genocide can be, anyway...) knows that it would be a greater sin to do the Rumbling. That's the biggest reason why I'm skeptical of the Code Geass/God Emperor of Dune stuff, because it feels almost like a psychological compulsion at this point, his lust for freedom that's enslaved him. No Wave fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Feb 10, 2021 |
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Feb 10, 2021 03:02
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No Wave posted:He can see the future. Being able to see the future is like... ultra mega sci fi calculated pragmatic. It's worth noting though that Eren's future-visions are absolutely not perfect. It's an explicit point he doesn't have perfect precognition ala a Leto. He's less Just As Planned and more plagued by visions he can't seem to break away from no matter what he does.
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Feb 10, 2021 03:19
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galagazombie posted:Destroying Marley as a state is something that has already happened. There's no need to kill everyone. Depressingly maybe the gang killing Eren part-way through the Rumbling is the optimal outcome in regards to lives saved. No one no matter how willing will be able to threaten Paradis for a century after this. And in that century there will no longer be a system like the Marleyan state maintaining and exacerbating anti-Eldian sentiment. Led by the Tyburs, Marley was at the forefront of giving Eldians human rights. As Annie pointed out, destroying Marley hosed things for Eldians everywhere.
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Feb 10, 2021 03:31
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Conspiratiorist posted:Led by the Tyburs, Marley was at the forefront of giving Eldians human rights. They were also airdropping giant zombies to other countries. That likely has more to do with fear and hatred than anything else
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Feb 10, 2021 03:47
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ImpAtom posted:It's worth noting though that Eren's future-visions are absolutely not perfect. It's an explicit point he doesn't have perfect precognition ala a Leto. He's less Just As Planned and more plagued by visions he can't seem to break away from no matter what he does. At first maybe, since he's gotten visions since the start of the series. But at the halfway point that went from blurts to near omniscience. He sees the bigger picture but sometimes lacks a few details, theres no way he could have turbofucked Zeke if he didnt know exactly what he was doing
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Feb 10, 2021 05:19
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Cao Ni Ma posted:At first maybe, since he's gotten visions since the start of the series. But at the halfway point that went from blurts to near omniscience. He sees the bigger picture but sometimes lacks a few details, theres no way he could have turbofucked Zeke if he didnt know exactly what he was doing Except we see him get blindsided in that very scene. He's clearly shocked when Zeke rips the chains and gives Ymir orders. He doesn't win due to Just As Planned. He wins by showing Ymir empathy for the first time in her 2,000 years of suffering.
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Feb 10, 2021 05:48
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My interpretation is that Eren isn't much intentionally acting to lay down the path indicated by his prescience, but rather finds himself locked into it, unable to even deviate as each scene from the future he encounters is always the product of the choices he's made since the last - choices he makes because he can't force himself to do otherwise, like saving that kid. Isayama once said that Eren is a slave to the story, and it turned out to be quite literal when the prophetic ability of the Attack Titan was revealed.
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Feb 10, 2021 06:25
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I'm not one for shipping but we gotta see Jean x Pieck before it's over and done. It's finally time to put the Cart before the horse.
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Feb 10, 2021 06:27
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Conspiratiorist posted:My interpretation is that Eren isn't much intentionally acting to lay down the path indicated by his prescience, but rather finds himself locked into it, unable to even deviate as each scene from the future he encounters is always the product of the choices he's made since the last - choices he makes because he can't force himself to do otherwise, like saving that kid. Do you think this is the reason he keeps trying to 'test' his prescience? There's a couple odd scenes where Eren seems to do this, like when asking Mikasa 'what am I to you?', Sasha's death, etc.
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Feb 10, 2021 06:29
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I wonder if Eren's complete lack of action up to this point was one final test of his precognition, hoping that Ymir would defeat the Alliance alone and spare him the torment of needing to murder his friends himself.
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Feb 10, 2021 06:41
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mightygerm posted:Do you think this is the reason he keeps trying to 'test' his prescience? There's a couple odd scenes where Eren seems to do this, like when asking Mikasa 'what am I to you?', Sasha's death, etc. Yes. I believe this is a part of why he tried to walk away from the alley where they were beating up Ramzi - at that point he had already more or less made up his mind about following along with Zeke's plan in order to unleash the Rumbling, and correctly reasoned it would be hypocritical of him to get involved if he'd already decided to one day kill all these people... but there was simply no way for Eren, because he's Eren, to walk away from a kid being brutalized in front of him. What we see from him in flashbacks is the mounting despair that he'll end up doing terrible things because events keep playing out just as he's foreseen them, and each time it happens he finds himself with no choice but to advance on the very path that leads to the next. His only sliver of hope appears to be some kind of belief that it somehow works out in the end. Something beyond the hell.
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Feb 10, 2021 06:58
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There's still something missing here. Obviously Eren has seen something beyond this hell, something that makes it all worth it. His talk with Falco on the bench, the Grisha thing in paths, all hint toward there's some 'good' ending that makes this all worth it. So why is he so tortured about it? Why is he a "half-assed piece of poo poo", as he compared himself with Reiner? Is it simply because he has to commit genocide in order to achieve this goal? While this might explain Eren's mental state, I struggle to believe that the story will retroactively paint the genocide as a net positive outcome, but there may be no avoiding that at this point.
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Feb 10, 2021 07:07
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mightygerm posted:Is it simply because he has to commit genocide in order to achieve this goal? Is more of a reason needed? Even if there's a good outcome at the end, it's an outcome that's good for Paradis, and not for the people he chose to trample in order to achieve it. And remember he's very explicitly not acting towards some "greater good" or in order to minimizing suffering, but to protect his homeland and its people. This is why he's "the same" as Reiner, who didn't push forward with the Paradis operation because he wanted to save the world, but because deep down he wanted to be a hero. Eren is likewise acting on selfish desires.
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Feb 10, 2021 07:15
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And what are people's reading on Eren's sitdown with Mikasa, Armin, and Gabi where he talks about Ackerman's being slaves and beating up Armin? Armin later argues that Eren made that Ackerman master/slave thing up, but Mikasa pinning Armin down seemed pretty convincing at the time... which also makes me wonder why Eren keeps insisting that he's not a slave and that he's free. That freedom doesn't seem to necessarily jive with is future actions, but I dunno. I also think it's pretty important to remember that he only sees what a future Attack Titan shifter shows him, which is presumably himself, but could also be... Falco? Or someone else? The anime addition of Falco dreaming that he was swinging around with swords may be a clue. Anyways, I don't know poo poo, baby!
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Feb 10, 2021 07:18
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whalestory posted:And what are people's reading on Eren's sitdown with Mikasa, Armin, and Gabi where he talks about Ackerman's being slaves and beating up Armin? Armin later argues that Eren made that Ackerman master/slave thing up, but Mikasa pinning Armin down seemed pretty convincing at the time... which also makes me wonder why Eren keeps insisting that he's not a slave and that he's free. That freedom doesn't seem to necessarily jive with is future actions, but I dunno. The "future Attack Titan shifter" could be memories from Grisha seeing memories from the future.
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Feb 10, 2021 07:20
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Conspiratiorist posted:Is more of a reason needed? That makes sense, and seems to inevitably mean the alliance will fail, since they are fighting for the opposite.
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Feb 10, 2021 07:23
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Beefstew posted:The "future Attack Titan shifter" could be memories from Grisha seeing memories from the future. Ah right, that's true. I think what I was getting at was that it wasn't just seeing the future, it seems like it's always been someone sending a memory "back" (usually, selectively?!)
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Feb 10, 2021 07:24
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Eren totally made the Ackerman slave thing up - we even get the flashback where he asks Zeke about it who tells him "to me it seems like she just loves you that much she'd kill a titan for you". When Armin jumps up she pins him down because she's so skilled she can do it on reflex, and she doesn't want them to fight. As for the matter of his freedom, he's tackling a predestination paradox. It's loving with his head, since his choices being his own is fundamental to his being, even if shikata ga nai would be an easy way to exculpate himself.
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Feb 10, 2021 07:31
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mightygerm posted:There's still something missing here. I'm not sure that Eren has "seen beyond the hell" at all. I believe he can only see the one path before him because he hasn't been able to truly heal from his initial trauma. That's why he's taken the form of his little boy self in PathWorld - deep down, he's still the kid who just watched his mother die, the kid who's just been struck by a sense of his own powerlessness.* His only "growth" since then has been moving past his rage and resigning to what he sees as his destiny: to inflict his trauma on the rest of the world. Eren keeps saying he's "free," but following the path in front of him even though it makes him miserable doesn't seem like freedom. It seems like he's trapped in yet another cage. *Correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC the only other character who takes their childhood form in PathWorld is Ymir Fritz, who looks the same as before she got her Titan power. Everyone else who appears in PathWorld either looks their current age (if they're alive) or how they did at the time of their death (if they're dead). I believe she's going along with Eren's plan because they're similar: she was also traumatized by violence she can't move past, so she's coping by inflicting violence on others. And now I've written out this whole effort post and I see that some other people are already thinking along similar lines.  E: fixed a typo Pththya-lyi fucked around with this message at 08:16 on Feb 10, 2021 |
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Feb 10, 2021 07:45
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